Greg,
gregc - post #1 i am reluctant to read a lengthy 100+ post thread which may be on a topic of interest, searching to find useful nuggets of information
I agree with you.
I work for a car company and the team I supervise provides direction for correcting very technical repairs at our dealers.
One thing in training which is stressed is the need for clear, concise but brief web responses to our techs. Why?
Studies show the human mind will read the first part of a post and then scan through the middle and go down to the end.
At times I have to dig though 100 + previous reports to try to find a trend but I am getting paid to do so.
On my own time no way. Others may feel differently.
Jim
gregc i am reluctant to read a lengthy 100+ post thread which may be on a topic of interest, searching to find useful nuggets of information and gotta wonder about their value.
i am reluctant to read a lengthy 100+ post thread which may be on a topic of interest, searching to find useful nuggets of information and gotta wonder about their value.
I personally like long threads that cover a detail topic I'm interested in. I have lots to learn on many topics so long threads provide many useful nuggets, less so for more experienced readers. I do stay away from debate topics such as DC versus DCC which rarely provide useful information!
tstage gregc i wonder if some forums are more for entertainment than information. Greg, I think in the nearly 20 years that I've belonged to this forum, I've seen a trend more towards entertainment and away from interesting or helpful threads. That's not to say that aren't interesting or helpful topics being posted here. I just don't see nearly as many of them as I used to, which is sad from my perspective. Tom
gregc i wonder if some forums are more for entertainment than information.
I think in the nearly 20 years that I've belonged to this forum, I've seen a trend more towards entertainment and away from interesting or helpful threads. That's not to say that aren't interesting or helpful topics being posted here. I just don't see nearly as many of them as I used to, which is sad from my perspective.
Tom
Here 16 years as a member and I agree with Tom on his assessment. It's evolved into more of a coffee clutch as time went by which isn't much of a draw for me. I tend not to read or post much as I used to. Different strokes.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 tstage gregc i wonder if some forums are more for entertainment than information. Greg, I think in the nearly 20 years that I've belonged to this forum, I've seen a trend more towards entertainment and away from interesting or helpful threads. That's not to say that aren't interesting or helpful topics being posted here. I just don't see nearly as many of them as I used to, which is sad from my perspective. Tom Here 16 years as a member and I agree with Tom on his assessment. It's evolved into more of a coffee clutch as time went by which isn't much of a draw for me. I tend not to read or post much as I used to. Different strokes.
I think those other types of threads have moved on, and I think many of them have just moved on from the hobby, so what you describe as a coffee clutch is what remains. Less help is generally needed in the RTR era, with all kinds of specific models already built and ready to run.
And I think that smaller shelf type of layouts have gotten a bit more popular, reducing carpentry and wiring problems.
I have been on the forum for 15 years, and my interests for railroad related discussions prior to the year 2000 has gone away, at least for a while. Era has become a bigger deal for me than it used to be.
- Douglas
Doughless riogrande5761 tstage gregc i wonder if some forums are more for entertainment than information. Greg, I think in the nearly 20 years that I've belonged to this forum, I've seen a trend more towards entertainment and away from interesting or helpful threads. That's not to say that aren't interesting or helpful topics being posted here. I just don't see nearly as many of them as I used to, which is sad from my perspective. Tom Here 16 years as a member and I agree with Tom on his assessment. It's evolved into more of a coffee clutch as time went by which isn't much of a draw for me. I tend not to read or post much as I used to. Different strokes. I think those other types of threads have moved on, and I think many of them have just moved on from the hobby, so what you describe as a coffee clutch is what remains. Less help is generally needed in the RTR era, with all kinds of specific models already built and ready to run. And I think that smaller shelf type of layouts have gotten a bit more popular, reducing carpentry and wiring problems. I have been on the forum for 15 years, and my interests for railroad related discussions prior to the year 2000 has gone away, at least for a while. Era has become a bigger deal for me than it used to be.
I agree that the talk has evolved into more of a chit-chat group and I think one reason is there are so many more places to find answers out there. There is a FB group that only focuses on weathering track only and other groups that have a very narrow focus on what is being discussed. If I find I am having an issue with something such as I had recently with a Loksound decoder I contact Loksound and the problem is quickly diagnosed and resolved. I had asked about the Loksound problem on a couple of forums and though I got a lot of responses 90% of them did not help in the least and some were just bad advice.
If you want answers fast without the chit-chat you can't beat the "narrow-focus" Facebook groups where if you stray off topic even slightly the post will be removed. I recently went to an airbrush group on FB and had a couple of questions about mixing different brands of paint and asked about what colour the item should be painted. The answer I got was 3 drops of this and 1 drop of that. It was perfect. I was in and out with an answer with no chit-chat.
So, if you don't like what goes on here there are a lot and I mean a lot of other establishments you can try out with just a couple of keystrokes. Don't whine, don't complain, go quietly into the night or jump up and down and loudly proclaim you're leaving. I have been here 17 years and when I croak no one here will show up at my funeral, so let's keep things in perspective.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BATMANI had asked about the Loksound problem on a couple of forums and though I got a lot of responses 90% of them did not help in the least and some were just bad advice. If you want answers fast without the chit-chat you can't beat the "narrow-focus" Facebook groups where if you stray off topic even slightly the post will be removed. I recently went to an airbrush group on FB and had a couple of questions about mixing different brands of paint and asked about what colour the item should be painted. The answer I got was 3 drops of this and 1 drop of that. It was perfect. I was in and out with an answer with no chit-chat.
This happens a lot. People will chime in with what they know about the topic, but it doesn't answer the question. Those types of comments then steer the topic to a related tangent of the topic, and then those comments lead to another related tangent. Then after about a page, the topic discusses something different than what the OP started. Related, but still different
It's people being social about railroading, discussing what they know, rather than staying on the OPs topic.
Having said that, I'm not the forum police, nor do I get irritated by these topical transisions like some others might. I think that if the responder is not answering the question, he is still providing some relevant information that I might find useful.
Maybe the question is...What is chit-chat...or coffee clutch...Is it personal stuff like in the Diner, or is it Off Topic discussions about model railroading related stuff?
BATMANSo, if you don't like what goes on here there are a lot and I mean a lot of other establishments you can try out with just a couple of keystrokes. Don't whine, don't complain, go quietly into the night or jump up and down and loudly proclaim you're leaving.
Nah. Just less active.
As some of you would have noticed, when I joined 18 years ago, I ran with it hard. I think I amassed maybe 18K posts inside of eight or nine years, and then slowed. As my own version of the hobby became refined, educated, and narrowed, I found less to look for, and then found that I would get more if I visited several forums daily. Even that has changed, but so has what interests me. I have moved on, but also back. I am now going to construct an observatory and mount a large refractor on a pier inside with a 'go-to' mount. This would be a return to an old pursuit.
It doesn't help that two other events have short-circuited my enthusiasm, one health-related and the other as a result of my wonderful wife becoming over-zealous about mucking out the train room and organizing it...and the garage next door. She lifted the swing-up bridge not knowing that all 16 rail ends had joiners on them, and she....umm...destroyed about 15' of trackage. I'm trying to find the mojo to perform the repairs before I fly out to Calgary to help drive my youngest and her two young boys back to Vancouver Island. I have planted the train bug into the eldest, and he wants to see them run. (...SIGH...). Finally, my father is enduring probably his last two or three years of life with mounting issues, and that tends to throw up a lot of chaff suddenly. It's hard to get a good long run at something to accomplish it let alone to enjoy it.
I especially agree about RTR and the evolution of the hobby. It's a purchase-online-and-return-if-you-don't-like-it world where packages are dropped off at so many doors with a ready-made solution to real and imagined problems. I wonder how the younger folk have the time to build a railroad when they have to unpack all those Uber Eats and Door Dash goodies that save them all that time and expense.
selector I have planted the train bug into the eldest, and he wants to see them run. (...SIGH...).
Most seem to really want to plant the bug and see it flourish. Sounds like you are not looking forward to it. But due to all of the other factors, I can understand it somewhat.
Finally, my father is enduring probably his last two or three years of life with mounting issues, and that tends to throw up a lot of chaff suddenly. It's hard to get a good long run at something to accomplish it let alone to enjoy it.
Thats my battle as well. As I've tried to push along layout construction, many things slow it or stop it for periods. I visited my 90 year old mother late April 2022 and found her not well - next morning she was in the hospital being tested and positive for Covid, thanks to my careless older sister who didn't bother telling anyone she had tested positive midweek beforehand. I ended up staying at my moms an hour away from my house for the following 12 months. So basically I didn't do much work on the layout for that 12 months, April 2022 to April 2023. With the help of my wife, we finally got two carers in 7 days a week so my mom could stay in her home as long as possible and allow me to move back home - mom turns 92 this Sept 1. She routinely is taken to the emergency room at the large hospital only a 5 minute drive from her house - I've lost count. Except for that Covid diagnosis, they basically never find anything wrong. But she will have to go into a nursing home in the coming months if things stay like this.
Add to that my wife has an endless to-do list to remodel or upgrade the house so I am expected to help with all those things. Hobby time is very limited.
I've never used those delivery services but due to the lack of hobby time, the RTR stuff at least helps me get closer to an operating layout. I can't imagine having time to build a large layout and build a large number of kits. As it is, that RTR stuff still has to be kadee height guaged and in the case of all those Athearn and Atlas items, converted to Kadees.
In order to make progress, I sometimes have to burn PTO at work so I can come home on a weekday and work on the layout. I did that past two Fridays to get the main yard track moved forward. I'll probaby buy a pre-fab helix to speed up connecting the two levels. Time ...
selector As some of you would have noticed, when I joined 18 years ago, I ran with it hard. I think I amassed maybe 18K posts inside of eight or nine years, and then slowed. As my own version of the hobby became refined, educated, and narrowed, I found less to look for, and then found that I would get more if I visited several forums daily. Even that has changed, but so has what interests me. I have moved on, but also back. I am now going to construct an observatory and mount a large refractor on a pier inside with a 'go-to' mount. This would be a return to an old pursuit. It doesn't help that two other events have short-circuited my enthusiasm, one health-related and the other as a result of my wonderful wife becoming over-zealous about mucking out the train room and organizing it...and the garage next door. She lifted the swing-up bridge not knowing that all 16 rail ends had joiners on them, and she....umm...destroyed about 15' of trackage. I'm trying to find the mojo to perform the repairs before I fly out to Calgary to help drive my youngest and her two young boys back to Vancouver Island. I have planted the train bug into the eldest, and he wants to see them run. (...SIGH...). Finally, my father is enduring probably his last two or three years of life with mounting issues, and that tends to throw up a lot of chaff suddenly. It's hard to get a good long run at something to accomplish it let alone to enjoy it. I especially agree about RTR and the evolution of the hobby. It's a purchase-online-and-return-if-you-don't-like-it world where packages are dropped off at so many doors with a ready-made solution to real and imagined problems. I wonder how the younger folk have the time to build a railroad when they have to unpack all those Uber Eats and Door Dash goodies that save them all that time and expense.
Thank-you both for your thoughtful replies. I am not looking forward to the repair for two reasons: it would mean finally accepting that my swing-up idea and construction is a failure (too unstable and poorly registered, too flimsy at the hinges, etc) and must now be made permanently fixed in place, and my back ain't what it used to be. I will have to bend over the area for a few hours desoldering, sliding knife under the ties and sawing free the tracks, cleaning the roadbed, and then making it all whole and pretty again. I figure three or four days, about two hours a pop.
I joined this forum WA-A-A-Y back, about two weeks after it went live. It was full of people trying to figure out what was okay to talk about or not, and how to share their particular interests in the hobby. They were fun days, and acrimony was not uncommon.
In the years since the forum has matured. Not a lot of contentiousness anymore, in large part because the moderators learned to keep a very tight rein of it.
I've never been part of the "chatty Cathy" crowd; I've visited the diner maybe all of half a dozen times in the last 22 years, and posted there only once or twice. I was never infected with the need to build post count, as many were in the early days.
I tend to stick to the threads related to modeling techniques, layout progress and such. These days reports on vendor issues are of special interest, since almost everyting I need I have to buy online.
Sure, there are a lot of "koffee klatch" posts, but I think that's always been the case. For a whole lot of us, forums are the only place we can find many people who share our interests. Conversations are going to spill out of that.
But there are still the "hard modeling" threads, like hon30critter's snow plow scratchbuild thread, or HO-Velo's Shelf Coupler discussion. Maybe even my own ongoing layout construction thread? And there's a lot more.
The meat is still there, it's just mixed in with a bit more chaff than in the past.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
selectorI especially agree about RTR and the evolution of the hobby. It's a purchase-online-and-return-if-you-don't-like-it world where packages are dropped off at so many doors with a ready-made solution to real and imagined problems. I wonder how the younger folk have the time to build a railroad when they have to unpack all those Uber Eats and Door Dash goodies that save them all that time and expense.
Allen McClelland partly credited the existance of the V&O to the newly available RTR equipment in the 1960's. To badly quote him, he was now able to spend his time building a model railroad instead of railroad models.
But RTR must be due to kids these days, right?
Everything old is new again. Even delivery services.
AEP528Everything old is new again. Even delivery services.
I don't know, when I was a kid we had the egg man, the bread man, and the milkman deliver to the house. You won't see me commenting on what people choose to have brought to them.
AEP528Allen McClelland partly credited the existance of the V&O to the newly available RTR equipment in the 1960's. To badly quote him, he was now able to spend his time building a model railroad instead of railroad models. But RTR must be due to kids these days, right? Everything old is new again. Even delivery services.
I do notice that part of the forum culture...maybe the hobby culture...is a bit of segregation of the model building portion of the hobby from the broader hobby.
I think some view the hobby as being about building your own models as often as possible ...and no, I truly don't have anybody specific in mind because I think the idea pops up frequently from many old and new members.
Since I entered the hobby at age 14, I was never interested in building individual models of railroad equipment. Structures, yes. RR stuff, no. I always have thought that "Model Railroading" was about the layout (Pike) and not about the individual models.
Age 14 was about the time the V&O got famous, so that's when I got hooked on the hobby. If the hobby was about craftsman model building, I probably would have never gotten interested.
Its feeds into some differences in how we answer questions and what threads we participate in. The layout construction and building section generally my go to section of this forum, but some things in the General Discussion section can pique my interest.
DoughlessI do notice that part of the forum culture...maybe the hobby culture...is a bit of segregation of the model building portion of the hobby from the broader hobby. I think some view the hobby as being about building your own models as often as possible
I build what I have time to build but in the end, I have to pick my battles. Buildings and rolling stock can be built from kits with varying degrees of difficulty or from scratch. Now we have computerization thrown into the mix, this just adds to the workload and learning curve as far as what expertise and the amount of time that is required to enjoy the hobby is.
I spent all weekend and one night a week just at the hockey rink when the kids were on the rise, my daughter was a competitive swimmer and took piano, cello, and clarinet lessons, lots of driving for us. I play my guitar for a couple of hours a day and keep in shape. Yet, I still have enough of a layout I have fun with and that is what counts.
There are people that have opinions on how much of a layout should be scratch-built to qualify you as a true modeler railroader. I will never meet that level as there are too many other interests in life that I like to experience.
BATMANI play my guitar for a couple of hours a day
And you still haven't figured out that chord?
BATMAN when I was a kid we had the egg man, the bread man, and the milkman deliver to the house
When I was a kid the lady next door had the same thing.
But then one day her husband came home early.
maxman BATMAN I play my guitar for a couple of hours a day And you still haven't figured out that chord?
BATMAN I play my guitar for a couple of hours a day
LOL
It's only been 55 years.....soon.
BATMANThere are people that have opinions on how much of a layout should be scratch-built to qualify you as a true modeler railroader.
There is no qualification to be a Model Railroader other that having/enjoying models of railroad equipment.
If all you own is fishing gear, and all you do with your leisure time is go fishing, then you are not a Model Railroader.
I need to stop before I get too far into this.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
OvermodYou wanted a psychologist, you got one, and now you're complaining about their answer?...Perhaps that addresses gregc's original question...
I doubt it.
There are always more constructive ways to offer advice. Suggestions someone offers others can decide to take (or not). I strongly believe we all have something to share on this forum. Keeping things civil is always easier than than done (see the fun DC vs. DCC debate), but the important thing is appreciating this hobby and keeping an open discussion.
I find myself coming here occasionally, along with the MRH forum. I found on the MRH forum that they are not too accommodating to new people to the hobby and that if your radius is prototypical, they refer to it as toy trains, so I stopped posting over there at all.
This forum I find is not as bad as MRH, but at times opinions seem to overrule, but not all the time.
Whole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit.
kasskabooseSee the fun DC vs. DCC debate.
I have never seen this debate.
There are a handful of us still using DC, because in our cases it meets our needs.
I will be the first one to recommend to any newcomer that they go with DCC. I do not recall anyone stating DC is better. I certainly don't feel that way.
However, it is right for me.
gzygadloWhole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit.
SeeYou190 kasskaboose See the fun DC vs. DCC debate. I have never seen this debate. There are a handful of us still using DC, because in our cases it meets our needs. I will be the first one to recommend to any newcomer that they go with DCC. I do not recall anyone stating DC is better. I certainly don't feel that way. However, it is right for me. gzygadlo Whole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit. -Kevin
kasskaboose See the fun DC vs. DCC debate.
gzygadlo Whole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit.
rrebellyou know you can get an 86" TV now for $1200.00 brand new.
Now if they could just put on something worthwhile to watch to make that $1,200 TV worth purchasing...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
time to shut down this thread ??
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Please do.
gregctime to shut down this thread ??
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
gregc time to shut down this thread ?? ¼ Cheers, the Bear.
gregc time to shut down this thread ??
it is kinda fun reading, especially from a cultural standpoint.
Rich
Alton Junction