rrebellYou start a thread and try to get an answer or make a statement and then were it goes after that, why do you care?
because i feel is discourages the discussion about the topic
rrebellWhat we need on this forum is more partisipation and not less.
what kind of participation?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
SeeYou190all might be handled by different freight cars. I honestly don't know. I have only witnessed molasses loaded onto boxcars in blue 65 gallon drums in the 1990s.
Russell
rrebell Why is it that people who start threads seem to think they own them. You start a thread and try to get an answer or make a statement and then were it goes after that, why do you care? What we need on this forum is more partisipation and not less.
That's my thought exactly.
- Douglas
SeeYou190 Doughless How far off is a discussion about sugar cane production from a question about molasses tank cars? My information for discussion was about how there are at least four different types of molasses produced in the US, and they all might be handled by different freight cars. I honestly don't know. I have only witnessed molasses loaded onto boxcars in blue 65 gallon drums in the 1990s. Someone else piped in with "Sucrose is sucrose" and I offered nothing in return about the cleanliness of sugar cane harvesting, milling, or refining. Nor did I get technical about anything. I was trying to stay at least in the molasses realm. gregc Would you mind a rehash of the DC/DCC debate on your molasses thread? Again, where is this debate? Did I live in the only part of the world where we all agreed DCC was better, but if you were already "in" for DC it might be beneficial for you, as an individual, to stay there? I never was part of any of these debates. Why was there any debate? DCC is better for a hundred reasons, and DC is only better for three or four. I do not personally know any model railroader that feels differently. NOW... as for what color "Brunswick Green" is... that will start a fist-fight around these parts. -Kevin
Doughless How far off is a discussion about sugar cane production from a question about molasses tank cars?
My information for discussion was about how there are at least four different types of molasses produced in the US, and they all might be handled by different freight cars. I honestly don't know. I have only witnessed molasses loaded onto boxcars in blue 65 gallon drums in the 1990s.
Someone else piped in with "Sucrose is sucrose" and I offered nothing in return about the cleanliness of sugar cane harvesting, milling, or refining. Nor did I get technical about anything.
I was trying to stay at least in the molasses realm.
gregc Would you mind a rehash of the DC/DCC debate on your molasses thread?
Again, where is this debate? Did I live in the only part of the world where we all agreed DCC was better, but if you were already "in" for DC it might be beneficial for you, as an individual, to stay there?
I never was part of any of these debates. Why was there any debate? DCC is better for a hundred reasons, and DC is only better for three or four.
I do not personally know any model railroader that feels differently.
NOW... as for what color "Brunswick Green" is... that will start a fist-fight around these parts.
-Kevin
SeeYou190Doughless How far off is a discussion about sugar cane production from a question about molasses tank cars? My information for discussion was about how there are at least four different types of molasses produced in the US, and they all might be handled by different freight cars. I honestly don't know. I have only witnessed molasses loaded onto boxcars in blue 65 gallon drums in the 1990s. Someone else piped in with "Sucrose is sucrose" and I offered nothing in return about the cleanliness of sugar cane harvesting, milling, or refining. Nor did I get technical about anything. I was trying to stay at least in the molasses realm.
No need to explain. I understand and also appreciate deviating into other aspects of the topic. If we know how molasses is produced and sold, we can broaden the topic to include other types of rail cars that we might see.
I just pointed out the molasses thread to show how specific questions either go unanswered or can be mistinterpreted and an answer is given that the OP never considered. But I appreciate all discussions on the topic.
gregc Doughless Is a response non topical if its still about model trains, just not exactly the topic the OP started? would you mind a rehash of the DC/DCC debate on your molasses thread? i understand the comment about the DC/DCC debate thread and how it's an example of forum culture, but not a continuation of the debate on this thread.
Doughless Is a response non topical if its still about model trains, just not exactly the topic the OP started?
would you mind a rehash of the DC/DCC debate on your molasses thread?
i understand the comment about the DC/DCC debate thread and how it's an example of forum culture, but not a continuation of the debate on this thread.
I generally don't mind things that are easy to ignore.
Like at any social setting, if the group grows larger and a few crazy old coots start talking about their good old days, I just grab the guy I was talking to and we continue our convo amongst ourselves. That's what the quote function is for.
I wouldn't get mad at the other guys, and wouldn't try to tell them to stop and stick to what I want to talk about. It would just never occur to me to do that.
Edit: I get your point about any or all threads being steered towards a few recurring topics. Eventually the thread gets taken over and fails to resemble what the OP intended. I think that degree of off topic hijacking happens infrequently, and still a conversation can be had within all of the clutter.
DoughlessHow far off is a discussion about sugar cane production from a question about molasses tank cars?
gregcWould you mind a rehash of the DC/DCC debate on your molasses thread?
Living the dream.
AEP528 The very first bullet point on the forum rules sticky: Stay on topic -- model train talk only, please (though civil off-topic discussion is tolerated in the Diner thread).
The very first bullet point on the forum rules sticky:
Stay on topic -- model train talk only, please (though civil off-topic discussion is tolerated in the Diner thread).
Aye, there's the rub. Is a response non topical if its still about model trains, just not exactly the topic the OP started?
Although harmless, I think we all agree that pics about lawn tractors and such are not about model trains.....
but how far off is a discussion about sugar cane production from a question about molasses tank cars? Seems like everybody has their personal level of tolerance that they wish others would follow.
DoughlessCareful Kevin. You're getting dangerously close to posting pics of lawn tractors.
I will need to be careful.
SeeYou190 Sugar Cane is one of the few areas where I have fairly good depth of knowledge. I started advancement in my career as the primary field engineering connection with my employer and Austoft who was importing the model 770 sugar cane harvester for United States Sugar. Austoft even opted to place their US headquarters in Fort Myers because that is where I lived and where I worked from. For four months every year I lived at US Sugar Corporation. You can't spend that much time with sugar cane farmers and not learn a lot about how it all works. I consider the Austoft 770 to be one of four machines that I am an expert with. You could take one completely apart, put it in a dump truck, unload it in a pile in front of my house, and I could assemble it for you. -Photograph by Kevin Parson Of course, that is all obsolete, they are all gone now. Anyway, I was not in Clewiston in 1975, so I had no direct knowledge of how molasses was hauled back then. I was 15 years late to the party, thank goodness. My understanding is that sugar cane production was pure hell prior to mechanization.
Sugar Cane is one of the few areas where I have fairly good depth of knowledge. I started advancement in my career as the primary field engineering connection with my employer and Austoft who was importing the model 770 sugar cane harvester for United States Sugar. Austoft even opted to place their US headquarters in Fort Myers because that is where I lived and where I worked from.
For four months every year I lived at US Sugar Corporation. You can't spend that much time with sugar cane farmers and not learn a lot about how it all works.
I consider the Austoft 770 to be one of four machines that I am an expert with. You could take one completely apart, put it in a dump truck, unload it in a pile in front of my house, and I could assemble it for you.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
Of course, that is all obsolete, they are all gone now.
Anyway, I was not in Clewiston in 1975, so I had no direct knowledge of how molasses was hauled back then. I was 15 years late to the party, thank goodness. My understanding is that sugar cane production was pure hell prior to mechanization.
Careful Kevin. You're getting dangerously close to posting pics of lawn tractors.
SeeYou190Your very first post in that thread said this: Doughless Answers and discussion appreciated. I took that to mean you were encouraging discussion. My bad
The discussion part got there quick. The answer part is late in coming.
I wrote that because I already knew that the topic would invite comments that did not answer the question. I guess you could say that I've been here long enough to understand the culture, LOL.
Either way, I'm not offended and I encourage any discussion on the topic of molasses and tank cars. Its why I provided that response and its consistent with what I'm saying in this thread.
Those that would've been looking only for answers might be disappointed.
DoughlessI started a thread in the Prototype section about what kind of tank cars were used to transport molasses in 1975. I was expecting an answer like 11,000 gallon tank cars. Or an ACF this or that.
Your very first post in that thread said this:
DoughlessAnswers and discussion appreciated.
I took that to mean you were encouraging discussion. My bad.
Also, I don't like sugar beets. Sorry. I am a Floridian, the home team is cane, and cane rules.
I suppose that if you suggested to someone in Georgia that Nectarines are superior to (or even equal to) Peaches, it might be similar.
I know I should not be answering any threads in the Prototype section. It is just not where I belong.
rrebell there are answers to threads where someone has misread them, done that a number of times but ussually notice and deleat, but not always.
there are answers to threads where someone has misread them, done that a number of times but ussually notice and deleat, but not always.
I think misinterpretation is a main reason for answers that might seem off topic. The reader either has misread an answer, or the answerer themselves misread the question.
Or the question itself is not written in a way that fosters the proper type of answer.
I started a thread in the Prototype section about what kind of tank cars were used to transport molasses in 1975. I was expecting an answer like 11,000 gallon tank cars. Or an ACF this or that. What I got was:
The need for baffles in a tank car if its going to carry molasses
Links to other discussions on the topic, none of which spoke to 1975.
And then some humorous discussions about molasses tank cars blowing up. Once in 1950 and another in 1919.
I didn't get offended at any of the non-reply replies. I just figured that nobody understood the type of answer I was looking for, or were offering their thoughts on the topic in what ever helpful way they had to offer.
PRR8259I stopped even reading them let alone posting anything. I simply do not need the stress and hassle of constantly being belittled by the one individual.
I hope things have changed enough that you will be back often.
OvermodThere are some threads where it's important to stay 'on point' -- when someone needs advice about a particular thing, on when the topic is on a reasonably well-defined subject.
Sorry, I don't agree that there is an importance. I have started threads where the answers don't really come close to the question. My reading skills allow me to pass by those responses or discard them rather quickly.
If say, 2 out of 10 replies are actually helpful, its better than 1 or zero. I just assume the other 8 replies are people sincerely trying to offer what they know on the topic, knowing that their answer isn't perfect but might be helpful in some way.
Are we talking about drifting way off topic.....like to houses, lawn tractors, relocating, etc. Again, I don't see these comments as problematic and I choose to read them or not, depending on my mood.
DoughlessI've always been a bit miffed as to why it so important to stay on topic in the first place.
Now, I think part of this is due to a peculiarity in the way Forum software presents a thread -- once the topic is selected and the last post is being read, it's natural to respond to what you see, even if that is technically a diversion or even a full-blown hijack. This also tends to be a concern with necro threads, because it requires careful inspection or even a bit of scrolling to recognize the dates on posts, but the last post or two sets the mood for replies...
richhotrain richhotrain Truth be told, the manner in which the forum is set up, and the limitations imposed on Tom to moderate it, results in an inability to change it. Nothing said or wished for in this thread can have any effect on the conduct of the forum because the members are pretty much free to say whatever they want, how often they want. As I mentioned in my first reply to this thread, whatever the culture of the forum is, there is nothing that any of us individually can do to change it. We cannot vet new members, and Tom's powers as moderator are severely limited, so we are all stuck with what we got. I cannot help but notice though the number of views which has now exceeded 11,000, making this thread, for better or worse, one of the most popular threads on the forum, averaging nearly 500 views per day. People are interested in what one another have to say. Personally, I am getting a kick out of the whole matter. Rich
richhotrain Truth be told, the manner in which the forum is set up, and the limitations imposed on Tom to moderate it, results in an inability to change it. Nothing said or wished for in this thread can have any effect on the conduct of the forum because the members are pretty much free to say whatever they want, how often they want.
Truth be told, the manner in which the forum is set up, and the limitations imposed on Tom to moderate it, results in an inability to change it. Nothing said or wished for in this thread can have any effect on the conduct of the forum because the members are pretty much free to say whatever they want, how often they want.
As I mentioned in my first reply to this thread, whatever the culture of the forum is, there is nothing that any of us individually can do to change it. We cannot vet new members, and Tom's powers as moderator are severely limited, so we are all stuck with what we got.
I cannot help but notice though the number of views which has now exceeded 11,000, making this thread, for better or worse, one of the most popular threads on the forum, averaging nearly 500 views per day. People are interested in what one another have to say. Personally, I am getting a kick out of the whole matter.
Rich
I've always been a bit miffed as to why it so important to stay on topic in the first place. The mods seem to let threads drift as long as they stay relevant to model railroading. I agree.
richhotrainwhatever the culture of the forum is, there is nothing that any of us individually can do to change it.
i feel there are things that we do and don't do that influence culture:
Alton Junction
Forum culture?
Tonight I read this forum for the first time in...quite awhile, and noticed this thread first, and just read much of it.
I freely admit I'm an imperfect person, and I tried to keep my past posts on these forums civil. However, one individual decided that he had to argue and take issue with just about every single thing that I ever said. That individual, I swear, if I said "the sky is blue" would argue it is any other color but blue.
That made these forums a less than fun experience, so I stopped even reading them let alone posting anything. I simply do not need the stress and hassle of constantly being belittled by the one individual.
To the newbies who might read this, well I hope your experience is better than mine was. That is all I have to say.
MidlandMike gregc rrebell why shut down one of the few threads realy active, because i started it as a discussion of forum culture, not the price of TV or the DC/DCC debate. you could start yet another thread on DC/DCC to bring the forum back alive ... or is that part of this forum's culture, to take the thread off topic? Did you think forums were immune to entropy?
gregc rrebell why shut down one of the few threads realy active, because i started it as a discussion of forum culture, not the price of TV or the DC/DCC debate. you could start yet another thread on DC/DCC to bring the forum back alive ... or is that part of this forum's culture, to take the thread off topic?
rrebell why shut down one of the few threads realy active,
because i started it as a discussion of forum culture, not the price of TV or the DC/DCC debate. you could start yet another thread on DC/DCC to bring the forum back alive
... or is that part of this forum's culture, to take the thread off topic?
Did you think forums were immune to entropy?
Nailed it.
Can you say clickbait?
I get the need to draw attention to a post, but this one is reaching diminishing return (sorry if I caused anyone PTSD with the economic term).
Why do I still post here though? Admission is the first step!
richhotrainIf we keep our eyes on the prize, we could hit 100,000 Views
I missed it. What is the prize?
All threads in all forums mutate to off topic.
I look at the list of most recent threads on this forum and wonder "why is this thread still getting new posts"
If I make the mistake of looking, I find someone is arguing about how molassas is made and someone else had rear end hurt because of something someone posted 5 or 10 years ago.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
But isn't that what creates a lot of replies. If the thread is going to stay rigid to the topic, and focus on providing accurate information about the topic, how many replies can a thread have?
Once the thread is answered correctly or completely, not much is left to say. When it drifts to opinion, points of view, and tangential topics then the reply count goes up.
csxns gregc thread off topic? Same thing happens on the Trains forum.
gregc thread off topic?
Same thing happens on the Trains forum.
In my quest to read more text about modern railroading and railroads, I have lurked on the Trains forum quite a bit lately.
Yes, off topic there too. Discussions often drift to how things were in the good old days, you know, prior to the year 2000. Same as here.
It seems that for a thread to get a lot of replies, the discussion has to quite often focus on how things used to be.