rrebellSteam dose not like bad trackwork. Had a curve and did not get it perfect, a pinch less than 18" radius (make double sure when using gauges that they move easily on the track), easy fix but it took awhile to fiqure out what was wrong.
In the mid-1980's my HO layout had 24" radius curves. All my plastic locos (diesels at the time) and rolling stock stayed on the track. No derailments that were not my fault (turnouts thrown the wrong way and such). I thought my trackwork was pretty good. Then I finally achieved something I'd dreamed of for years - I bought a brass loco!
This was a PFM Great Northern H-6 Pacific in the Glacier Park scheme. It was beautiful! It ran great too, except for one small thing - it derailed on almost every curve!
The minimum radius of the loco was listed as 24" radius, and boy, when a brass manufacturer specifies a minimum radius, they mean it! Apparently I had a few spots in many curves where the radius went slightly below 24", and the lead truck very reliably popped off the rails every time. I relaid those curves, painstakingly making sure the radius stayed at or slightly above 24 inches, and no more problems.
Years later I bought the Sunset models NP Z-8 Challenger, minimum radius 30". I have one spot on my layout where the mainline around the roundhouse drops to just below 30" (maybe 29 3/4") and that puppy derails there every time. I haven't bothered to relay that track because I no longer model any part of the NP, and articulateds never ran on the area I do model. So the Z-8 stays in the box.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Every PRR modeler needs more H class 2-8-0 locomotives. I picked up a factory painted Sunset brass H8 for under $200. A TS2 decoder and rectangular speaker and 6 pin JST connector for another $100. An afternoon of work for a much needed model cheaper than a plastic version by far.
My Bachmann K4s was really light on it's feet and the front truck would randomly derail. Weel gage was fine so it received extra weight in the boiler and front truck. No more derailments and three more coaches behind without slipping a driver. It doesn't take much to make huge improvements in performance.
Pete.
tstage That cab detail is quite amazing. I just assumed brass would be out of my price range. I base that assumption on some of the big producers brass steam locomotives available today. As I mentioned before, the BLI Dreyfuss Hudson, for example. What brand is that depicted in the photo? SeeYou190 I have found that reasonably priced brass locomotives fill all my needs just fine. These are reliable, rugged, easy to repair, and well made. They might not be as well detailed as modern plastic artworks, but they sure are more sturdy and easily handled. -Photograph by Kevin Parson -Kevin And some older steam is AMAZINGLY detailed for prices less than current plastic offerings. The plus is finding specific prototype locomotives that will - more than likely - never be released on the plastic market. This is the backhead detail of a 4-6-0 that I picked up last week: (Click to enlarge) The rest of the locomotive ain't to shabby either. Tom
That cab detail is quite amazing. I just assumed brass would be out of my price range. I base that assumption on some of the big producers brass steam locomotives available today. As I mentioned before, the BLI Dreyfuss Hudson, for example. What brand is that depicted in the photo?
SeeYou190 I have found that reasonably priced brass locomotives fill all my needs just fine. These are reliable, rugged, easy to repair, and well made. They might not be as well detailed as modern plastic artworks, but they sure are more sturdy and easily handled. -Photograph by Kevin Parson -Kevin
These are reliable, rugged, easy to repair, and well made. They might not be as well detailed as modern plastic artworks, but they sure are more sturdy and easily handled.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
-Kevin
And some older steam is AMAZINGLY detailed for prices less than current plastic offerings. The plus is finding specific prototype locomotives that will - more than likely - never be released on the plastic market.
This is the backhead detail of a 4-6-0 that I picked up last week: (Click to enlarge)
The rest of the locomotive ain't to shabby either.
Tom
rrebell Steam dose not like bad trackwork. Had a curve and did not get it perfect, a pinch less than 18" radius (make double sure when using gauges that they move easily on the track), easy fix but it took awhile to fiqure out what was wrong.
Steam dose not like bad trackwork. Had a curve and did not get it perfect, a pinch less than 18" radius (make double sure when using gauges that they move easily on the track), easy fix but it took awhile to fiqure out what was wrong.
I bought some ribbonrail R18" track gauge inserts. It's saved me a lot of head scratching. The price is cheap enough for a 5" or 10" section.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Pruitt So what's the big attraction of steam? Quite simply, steam locomotives are large, snorting, smoking beasts with an amazing amount of complex motion on display when they move. And diesels are just noisy boxcars.
So what's the big attraction of steam? Quite simply, steam locomotives are large, snorting, smoking beasts with an amazing amount of complex motion on display when they move.
And diesels are just noisy boxcars.
John-NYBW It's easy to understand why no manufacturer has attempted to replicate UP's 4-12-2 locos. Don't know what radius you'd need for that. Maybe somebody has done it in brass, but since only one railroad built them, it probably wouldn't have been profitable otherwise. ...
It's easy to understand why no manufacturer has attempted to replicate UP's 4-12-2 locos. Don't know what radius you'd need for that. Maybe somebody has done it in brass, but since only one railroad built them, it probably wouldn't have been profitable otherwise.
...
This is what Sheldon just cited above: BLI, HO, 2015, since released I believe, or about to:
MTH released their own version in 2011 or so, but it's chassis was articulated such that the entire pilot and cylinder chest pivoted around curves less than about 40", above which the chassis could be pinned. That version had 'working' Gresley valve gear. BLI's is depicted, but it's fixed. BLI's has two sets of blind drivers, and longer crank pins and axles to accommodate more typical HO curves, their version of 'lateral motion devices'.
John-NYBW It's easy to understand why no manufacturer has attempted to replicate UP's 4-12-2 locos. Don't know what radius you'd need for that. Maybe somebody has done it in brass, but since only one railroad built them, it probably wouldn't have been profitable otherwise. I have a Bachmann 2-10-2 and it has no problem handling by 36" minimum radius curves. It has small drivers so the wheel base is probably no more than my 4-8-4s, 2-8-4s, and 4-8-2s.
I have a Bachmann 2-10-2 and it has no problem handling by 36" minimum radius curves. It has small drivers so the wheel base is probably no more than my 4-8-4s, 2-8-4s, and 4-8-2s.
https://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon3up4-12-2.aspx
Ablebakercharlie John-NYBW I used to have nothing but trouble with Bachmann steamers. The biggest source of problems were the pilot trucks which flopped around like a fish out of water and wouldn't stay on the track no matter how I adjusted them That is exactly the problem I was having, along with the back trucks as well. I was going to post a question on how to weigh them down so they don't flop as much. I wound up giving up yesterday and taking the front and back trucks off so the steamer became an 0-8-0 but even then I was having an issue on turns and a couple turnouts. It was a mea culpa moment that I need to get my track work in order if I want to consider running big-ish steamers ( that is anything over 0-6-0) I enjoy running diesels but to able to run steamers with the Bachmann "old time" rolling stock would be fun too. - charles
John-NYBW I used to have nothing but trouble with Bachmann steamers. The biggest source of problems were the pilot trucks which flopped around like a fish out of water and wouldn't stay on the track no matter how I adjusted them
That is exactly the problem I was having, along with the back trucks as well.
I was going to post a question on how to weigh them down so they don't flop as much.
I wound up giving up yesterday and taking the front and back trucks off so the steamer became an 0-8-0 but even then I was having an issue on turns and a couple turnouts. It was a mea culpa moment that I need to get my track work in order if I want to consider running big-ish steamers ( that is anything over 0-6-0)
I enjoy running diesels but to able to run steamers with the Bachmann "old time" rolling stock would be fun too.
- charles
What radius curves? A Mikado should run on just about anything.
Sheldon.
The Bachmann Spectrum USRA light 2-10-2 has small drivers, 57", and a rigid wheel base of only 21'. They are longest rigid wheelbase locos I have on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
By comparison a UP FEF3 has 80" drivers and a rigid wheelbase of 22', despite having one less pair of drivers.
SP GS-4's are similar at 21.5' rigid wheelbase.
The Reading T1 on the other hand with its smaller 70" drivers, has a rigid wheelbase of 19.25'
It is amazing how that little bit can make a difference.
A USRA heavy Mountain has a rigid wheelbase of only 18.25' with 69" drivers.
And the typical Mikado only has a 16.75' rigid wheelbase with 63" drivers.
I have never owned any of those older Bachmann regular line (pre Spectrum, pre upgrades in general) steamers. Their prototypes never fit my modeling.
But based on my experiance with newer Bachmann regular line locos, like the 2-8-4, I would buy the Mikado, Pacific or the 2-6-0 without any reservation.
Of the Bachamm steamers I do have, I have never had a leading or trailing truck derailment issue. In fact, I remove the leading truck spring from my Bachmann 2-8-0's, they track fine.
I have 2-8-0's, USRA Heavy Mountains, USRA light 2-10-2's, 2-8-4's converted to heavy Mikes, 2-6-6-2's, and the B&O EM1. And while I don't really need them, I am considering a few of the USRA Mikes and Pacifics.
I do add extra weight to ALL the tenders, other brands as well. I have found little minor "tweaks" that make some locos track better, like this mod, look closely at the drawbar on this Heavy Mountain. It has a dip bent in it for the wires and plugs.
No derailments is all about trackwork most of the time.
Sheldon
I remember doing a fix to one of my Bachmann steamers that had some success in eliminating the excessive flopping of the front truck although I can't remember which one. I glued a small piece of styrene, I think about 1/8" thick, to the underside of the frame directly above the center of the truck. What this did was limit the amount of vertical movement of the truck, greatly reducing the amount of bouncing. This eliminated most of the derailments although it didn't completely stop them. You could experiment with different thicknesses of styrene to see which would do the best job of restricting the amount of bounce.
I never had the same trouble with the trailing trucks but it's possible this could work there as well.
Good luck and let us know if this works out.
John-NYBWI used to have nothing but trouble with Bachmann steamers. The biggest source of problems were the pilot trucks which flopped around like a fish out of water and wouldn't stay on the track no matter how I adjusted them
Ablebakercharlie richhotrain I love steam, and I would devote my entire layout to steam if I didn't have so many problems with derailments on turnouts Never has a truer word been spoken! Just yesterday I was trying to run a Bachmann 2-8-2 on my layout and I was have nothing but issues with derailments. I have some 0-6-0 s that run no problem as long as I have the frogs powered. All the diesels - no problem. I have determined that a track should not be considered even remotely bullet-proof until you can run a steam loco on it with no issues! charles
richhotrain I love steam, and I would devote my entire layout to steam if I didn't have so many problems with derailments on turnouts
Never has a truer word been spoken!
Just yesterday I was trying to run a Bachmann 2-8-2 on my layout and I was have nothing but issues with derailments. I have some 0-6-0 s that run no problem as long as I have the frogs powered. All the diesels - no problem.
I have determined that a track should not be considered even remotely bullet-proof until you can run a steam loco on it with no issues!
charles
With Bachmann, there is a wide range of quality. I used to have nothing but trouble with Bachmann steamers. The biggest source of problems were the pilot trucks which flopped around like a fish out of water and wouldn't stay on the track no matter how I adjusted them. I finally took the pilot truck of my 2-8-0 and made it an 0-8-0. Later I had a 4-8-4 Niagra with the same issue. I wasn't going to run a 0-8-4 so it became a static scenic element on a garden track outside the roundhouse.
Later, Bachmann came out with their Spectrum line which was several grades better than their old standard line. I was very happy with their 2-8-0 Consolidiations and own three of them. Also happy with their 4-6-0 although the sound isn't the greatest. It is an excellent runner. It seems that now they've merged their Spectrum and Standard lines and I don't know what models they are currently offering or what the quality is.
I wish they would make more smaller steam like 2-8-0, 4-6-0, and 2-6-0. BLI came out with the H10. I wish they would do a couple more runs.
So I built my current shelf layout (in a 11'X7' space) to accomodate steam engines. In my experience, top-of-the-line turnouts, zero inclines and level track (in both directions) is the secret to smooth operation with steam. Because of the space, the only compromise I had to do was the tighter radius (22"). But with good trackwork, my 8 driver steam engines, including older brass, can go through the mainline without derailments. Some engines required added weight on the lead trucks, but that is an easy fix. Some rear trucks on my 8 and 10 driver brass needed a bit of dremel work to prevent shorts, but nothing major. The vast majority of derailments are caused by human error .
I hardly run any diesels, apart from a few switchers. My diesels get more running time at the club where I can run extra-long trains, in 3% inclines, faster and without problems.
Simon
richhotrain SeeYou190 Pruitt And diesels are just noisy boxcars. I prefer steam locomotives, and I really do not know why. I was never exposed to steam railroading. Other than fan trips and the Freedom Train, I have not seen steam in operation. There is just something about them I find appealing, and I cannot put a finger on in. I do not really care for the "big baddies" of steam, but Pacifics, Consolidations, and Mikados are more my style. The workaday locomotives with their "normalcy" are more to my liking. I love steam, and I would devote my entire layout to steam if I didn't have so many problems with derailments on turnouts , my turntable, roundhouse, etc. So, if I just ran steam, I would have nothing but problems, most of which are associated with the pilot truck and trailing truck. I have grown so disillusioned with steam on my layout that I have recently reduced my roster from 16 to 9 to 3 steam locomotives. They are just too frustrating to mess with. Rich
SeeYou190 Pruitt And diesels are just noisy boxcars. I prefer steam locomotives, and I really do not know why. I was never exposed to steam railroading. Other than fan trips and the Freedom Train, I have not seen steam in operation. There is just something about them I find appealing, and I cannot put a finger on in. I do not really care for the "big baddies" of steam, but Pacifics, Consolidations, and Mikados are more my style. The workaday locomotives with their "normalcy" are more to my liking.
Pruitt And diesels are just noisy boxcars.
I prefer steam locomotives, and I really do not know why. I was never exposed to steam railroading. Other than fan trips and the Freedom Train, I have not seen steam in operation.
There is just something about them I find appealing, and I cannot put a finger on in.
I do not really care for the "big baddies" of steam, but Pacifics, Consolidations, and Mikados are more my style. The workaday locomotives with their "normalcy" are more to my liking.
I love steam, and I would devote my entire layout to steam if I didn't have so many problems with derailments on turnouts , my turntable, roundhouse, etc.
So, if I just ran steam, I would have nothing but problems, most of which are associated with the pilot truck and trailing truck. I have grown so disillusioned with steam on my layout that I have recently reduced my roster from 16 to 9 to 3 steam locomotives. They are just too frustrating to mess with.
Rich
Steam does require more generious track standards - OR - no long wheelbase locos.
I only have a partial memory of steam that you have mentioned having, but my recollection is many of them are/were pretty large, especially large non articulated locos.
Locos like west coast Northerns (GS4's, FEF's) have large drivers which stretch out the rigid wheelbase - this is a problem.
2-10-anythings are often a problem.
This is why I have long considered 36" radius the bare minimum for big time mainline modeling. And the intergration of curves and turnouts must be carefully done. But amazingly, #6 turnouts are generally fine.
Otherwise you will have problems.......
I model CN and as they had 200 Northerns on the roster Northerns are certainly part of mine. Luckily the only plastic CN steam loco produced so far was a Northern.
CN Charlie
SeeYou190I have found that reasonably priced brass locomotives fill all my needs just fine. These are reliable, rugged, easy to repair, and well made. They might not be as well detailed as modern plastic artworks, but they sure are more sturdy and easily handled. -Photograph by Kevin Parson -Kevin
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
richhotrainI love steam, and I would devote my entire layout to steam if I didn't have so many problems with derailments on turnouts
Alton Junction
Keven, me too with the "medium" steam. My fleet is mostly, Consolidations, Mikes, Pacifics, and Mountains.
Smaller, older mainline steam does not attract me as much, but I do like it all.
Even the "big steam" I do have, much of it is "smaller" like my 2-6-6-2's. They are really not much bigger than a Mountain type.
I am amussed by the popularity of Northerns, while modern and powerful, they were one of the last and least produced, therefor least likely to be seen by most people.
I do have some big locos, 2-6-6-6, 2-6-6-4, 2-8-8-0, but they represent a very small precentage of the fleet.
Only 10 articulated locos total, including the 5 2-6-6-2's, and just 2 Northerns, compared to:
8 Mikes
10 Mountains
10 Consolidations
4 Pacifics
2 Ten Wheelers
1 Atlantic
2 0-8-0's
And I do like my first generation powered box cars too..........
PruittAnd diesels are just noisy boxcars.
PruittIt also says it has the same problem when I edit, but it posts it anyway. Jeez!
Something went wonky with this thread. It shows 60+ replies, but only on page 2. It should be on page 3 now.
<EDIT> I see it hit page three now with 65 replies. Maybe it will straighten out.
Living the dream.
tstage It's a utter shame that Alfred Perlman scrapped nearly all the NYC steamers, as there so few left today to visit in person. It was a real treat to be able to see the refurbished NYC L-2d 4-8-2 Mohawk #2933 at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation back in 2018. That and L-3a #3001 at the NYCRR Museum in Elkhart are the only large steam engines left from the extensive NYC fleet. Not even ONE Hudson or Niagara was spared the torch. Tom
It's a utter shame that Alfred Perlman scrapped nearly all the NYC steamers, as there so few left today to visit in person. It was a real treat to be able to see the refurbished NYC L-2d 4-8-2 Mohawk #2933 at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation back in 2018. That and L-3a #3001 at the NYCRR Museum in Elkhart are the only large steam engines left from the extensive NYC fleet. Not even ONE Hudson or Niagara was spared the torch.
He did the same thing to the Rio Grande. Only one standard gauge steam locomotive still exists and it was one that was sold to another railroad. He probably would have done the same to the narrow gauge had he remained.
steamlocosonly...for nowI want to thank everyone for their very unique replys
Sorry, I could not reply when this thread was fresh.
I have found that reasonably priced brass locomotives fill all my needs just fine.
With everything available on the used brass market, there is no need for the plastic manuacturers to make "typical" steam locomotives.
ricktrains4824ricktrains4824 wrote the following post an hour ago: Having never seen steam in regular operation, it would seem it does not have as big of a draw. But, having seen steam fan trips, I love steam. Therefore, I do own a couple of steam loco's, NKP 765, NW 611, and a pair of Erie RR steamers. (Mantua I was gifted, and a Blueline 2-8-2 Mike. Erie RR ran their main line right through my hometown.) But it is very hard to justify the price, when I can buy two (or more) diesels for the same price as one steamer. Would I love more steam locomotive models? Yes. Will I be able to afford a "limited run" accurate steam model when it is released? Possibly yes, but just (or even more) as possible no. Do I want more diesels? Depending on roadname and unit, yes. Can I afford "limited run" accurate models of diesels when announced? More possible yes than with steam. Will Steam fit my layout's theme? Fan trips, yes. Diesels? Much more so, yes. My layout's theme is set at an era I like, but also one I can afford.
I was fortunate enough to have an upclose view of UP Big Boy 4014 last summer as it toured for what I understand was it's final run. It was a huge treat for me and I hate to see it end. At this point I will hope that Scale Trains uses some of the tooling purchased from MTH to produce some steam locos in the NYC roadname. I would like to have one of the BLI Dreyfuss Hudson's but that price tag is a little beyond my reach.