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what does MRing need?

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, April 18, 2021 10:40 PM

snjroy

Well, here is my list:

-Less expensive decoders. I can't understand why the cost of simple decoders (motor control and headlight) has not come down

-Acrylic paint for model railroaders

-Good DIY decal systems 

-DCC system with smartphone control capability "out of the box"

Simon

 

$15 for a decoder is not expencive. #2 There are lots of these, what you want. #3 What you want, there are a few out there, I personaly prefer dry transfers #4 Bachmann has been pushing this for years, works well too but I don't like using my smart phone for this, prefer a throttle so selling my Bachmann one.

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Posted by snjroy on Sunday, April 18, 2021 10:26 PM

Paul3

snjroy,
Actually, the cost of a basic decoder has dropped by 1/3rd since they were introduced around 1998, and now they are better.  When my club got into DCC in January 1999, the Digitrax DH120 was $20.  Today, the much-improved DH126 decoder is $20.  Yes, I know that's that the same price, but consider the cost of inflation.  That $20 decoder in 1998 would cost $32.66 today, yet it's still just $20...all while having more advanced features.

 

well, the costs of electronics generally come down on the long run. The R&D is basically paid off... I don't think the technology of a basic decoder has changed that much. It should be below inflation. I would have expected a net decrease, in fact. 

Simon

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Posted by Outsailing86 on Sunday, April 18, 2021 10:11 PM

34 years old, a dad of two kids (13 years old and a 4 month old) and a sales engineer... 

I would point out free time is nowhere what it was. Cell phones are not only a distraction, but it means work doesn't stop at 5pm either. There are "free" nights I end up working where I know my dad wasn't back in the day. I would also say traveling is easier than what it was(pre covid) which put a strain on families. 

There are always articles (even in the 70's) about where the new blood is coming from, the hobby is dying.. etc. Well looks like it is still around. Fact is, you can only do so much.

For improvements to the experience. 
better throttles. I think the protothrottle is too intense, but hitting buttons on the throttle like a remote control (prodigy express DCC).. is like watching tv. 
signals and operating in general can be improved and made simpler. 
We get too hung up on radius, track spacing, ho/n scale... I can see how a new person would just be lost. 
in theory, it shouldn't be a big lift to make a layout like the Heart of Georgia using Kato Unitrack with DCC. 
prefer to the 30 minutes or 3 hour article by Lance Mindheim. Spot on. Sums up almost every time I get to play with train. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 9:59 PM

Paul, 

I agree, I'm just pointing out that preorders have not been some sort of magic bullet that has made every desired product available.

I missed buying a couple of pieces of Athearn RTR a decade ago, nothing real special, but they fit my roster and would save me a paint job or two. I have yet to see them anywhere on the secondary market....

I get the preorder thing much more than do 5 guys all making Big Boys - that is amplified by the fact that I have no interest in a Big Boy..... or a lot of the other "popular and famous" locomotives.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me there was much more product available 10 or 15 years ago than there is today?

Again, my wish list is pretty small, and I have the 140 locos I need to run the layout, and a hundred or more kits yet to build to complete the 1,000 car roster.

JDawg,

It took me 25 years to get to where I could build the 1,000 sq ft layout. Now at 50 years in I'm starting on the 1,500 sq ft layout. 

I don't think anyone is looking down on you. Don't take the choices other make for themselves as a criticism of you or what you are doing.

You want DCC and sound, ok. I'm building a 1,500 sq ft layout without DCC and sound. Why? because I'm not impressed with onboard sound, and I want big time operations, long trains, with signaling and CTC - so that's where I'm willing to put the money.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by OldEngineman on Sunday, April 18, 2021 9:56 PM

Since most model railroaders probably come from those who developed an appreciation of full-sized trains, what's "needed" most in model railroading are enough "recruits" to carry things on.

But... the big railroads may be lacking in this regard. They're just not as interesting today as they used to be, and with mergers, there's not a whole lot of variety. The operations that there are, are drab. The engines pretty much look the same on everything.

And they're certainly no longer friendly to non-railroaders who take an interest in them, in the ways they once were. It must be difficult to "get close enough" to see what's going on, before someone chases you away.

I wouldn't want to be working on the big engines today, and friends from work, also retired, feel the same way. The qualities that used to make the job a good one, are gone or are on the way out.

I reckon the only companies that are good to work for today are the short lines and regionals, even for lower pay. Perhaps some passenger/commuter here and there...

 

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Posted by Paul3 on Sunday, April 18, 2021 9:25 PM

JDawg,
As my mom used to say, it sounds like you have champagne taste and beer income.  Big Smile

This hobby is not too expensive.  What you want to do in this hobby may be too expensive for your hobby budget, but that's on you not the hobby.  In yon olden days, guys would literally make freight cars out of cardboard and use staples for grabirons.

In your example, you could have easily bought old boxcars for $5 each.  Decent used engines are routinely selling for $50 and DCC is not required for hobby participation nor is sound (right, Sheldon?  Smile, Wink & Grin).  But if you want brand new expensive engines with DCC/Sound, brand new cars, etc., then yeah, it's gonna cost you.

Managing one's expectations is just as important as managing one's budget.

As for anyone looking down on you, where has this happened, specifically?  This is one of the most easy-going hobby forums around.  I've been here since 2002 (and actually way before that), and while I don't read every thread, I cannot recall any posts like that in the last 19 years.  More often than not, what we get here are anti-rivet counter screeds from the "It's my railroad and I'll do what I want!" group.

Sheldon,
How many of those things you mention were manufactured before pre-orders?  Answer: none.

The only chance of any of these things being made in non-brass form is via pre-orders.  There's just no way any of them are going into regular production to be available whenever you feel like buying one.

Why doesn't the B&O historical society pay some manufacturer to make some B&O prototypes?  We NH fans did, and that's why we have NH stainless steel passenger cars in coach, parlor, diner and (coming soon) combine styles.

Overmod,
The BLI all-brass New Haven I-5 4-6-4 has working valve gear.  When you put it in forward, the valve link moves.  When it goes into reverse, it moves the other way.

Also, for the realistic diesel operators, check out the ProtoThrottle.  It has an 8-notch throttle, 3-position reverser, brake lever, bell button, horn handle, and headlight knobs.  Fine tuning it with LokSound or Tsunami2 decodered engines makes for a very realistic experience.

Operating HO-scale people?  Sorry, that's gonna have to wait for Augmented Reality goggles.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 8:12 PM

TheFlyingScotsman

An alternative to the much missed huge offering of turnouts from Shinohara.

 

Walthers is working on it. I think they were completely blind sided when Shinohara closed up.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 18, 2021 8:12 PM

I'll be at right angles from most anybody else here.

What I've wanted 'all these years' is more functional realism in 'relatively attainable' technologies: steam-locomotive valve gear that works, control of diesel and steam that can be like the prototype rather than 'turn knob to go faster' -- and realistic motion of 'all the things other than the trains' in the model world.  That includes model crews that act like people, not just little figurines stuck here and there... watch the John Pechulis videos with Mike Bednar and friends to see the idea.  There are a number of famous layouts that have a history, moving features, vignettes ... and as with cartoons, they need not be in photorealistic, nietenzahlende precision to do that quite attractively.  Much of the 'renaissance' the New York Times recently predicted for model 'railroading' was in crafting stories, and peripheral details, for the worlds in which trains incidentally move.  It will be interesting to see what comes out of that.  

Wise and caring mentoring has to be done via social media now -- I think the last generations of people running storefronts with it are going down the westbound slope faster all the time.  Who the next 'generation' of wise heads will be is, I think, an interesting question: our helping to inspire them to develop the 'right stuff' is critical.

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Sunday, April 18, 2021 7:52 PM

An alternative to the much missed huge offering of turnouts from Shinohara.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 7:20 PM

Paul, do you mean like all the stuff that has not been made yet even with preorders?

Like a non brass B&O P7, B&O streamlined passenger cars built from heavyweights, a Challenger that is not a UP prototype, one, just one, modern 10 wheeler like a B&O B18, and on, and on.

I get it, I really do. But I'm 63 and my modeling is based on what I can by today, not what might be here next year or the year after.

Lucky for me I now have most of what I want after 50 years of "gathering".

New layout starts soon.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Paul3 on Sunday, April 18, 2021 6:44 PM

Folks, just so you know, this forum is "social media".  Seriously.  Social media isn't just Facebook and Twitter, it includes online forums like this one.

SeeYou190,
"Well made" and "affordable" are contradictory terms.  Smile, Wink & Grin  In this hobby, like many others, you get what you pay for.

Lastspikemike,
Seriously?  "...(E)xcessive obsession with detail and accuracy..."?  This forum is all rainbows and unicorns compared to other model railroad forums I've seen.  This has to be one of the least obsessed with detail and accuracy model railroad hobbby forums on the internet.  The only one I've heard of that's close is the old A.W.N.U.T.S. (Always Whimsical Not Usually To Scale) G-gauge group, but the modeling they did was (is?) first class even if it was bonkers.

As far as this group being intimidating, frankly any newbie to any group will feel that emotion.  I recently joined an online forum that has nothing to do with this hobby, and I lurked for months before I made my first post because I didn't want to step on any potential landmines against group culture.

dehusman,
The problem of doing pre-1900 stuff is physics and knowledge.  Running 2-2-0's hauling "stagecoaches on railwheels" at slow speeds isn't much fun.  Trying to operate before knuckle couplers isn't great either.  Trying to find accurate color information, loco/car information, etc. is close to impossible for some roads.  I'm not saying it can't be done (that recent Civil War layout in MR a while back was quite good), but it's going to be a niche market (like Narrow Gauge modeling) for the forseeable future.

rrebell,
The best book I've ever seen on designing and building a model railroad is "How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork" by Linn Westcott.  An updated version using more power tools and some newer techniques & materials would be an asset to the hobby, IMHO.

Sheldon,
More pre-orders = more product availability.  Cutting down on pre-orders means cutting down on products in the marketplace.

I know we've had this discussion before, but can't you understand that trying and failing to buy things that don't exist is just as frustrating as trying and failing to buy things that are out of stock?  At least with items that are out of stock, you might find them in the secondary market and there's a very good chance the item will be re-run.  If they are never made in the first place, you can't buy them at all

I don't understand why today someone will "rage quit" the hobby because they missed out buying a prouct that came out a few years back, but 30 years ago that same guy would look for the same item, not be able to buy it because it didn't exist, and calmly buy something else.  I don't get it.

Product overlap happens because it sells, Sheldon.  That's why there are so many F-units, Big Boys, and GEVO's on the market.  They sell.  They keep the lights on at the various manufacturers so they can make unique things like SDL39's and FL9's.

We used to have a great online searchable database for all hobby magazines...

I agree that DCC isn't going to be replaced.  Is it a divide in the hobby?  Meh.  You could say the same thing about Kadee couplers vs. X2F Horn Hooks yet we've seemed to weather that as a hobby.

I don't think a "better" control system will take off because the difference between today's DCC and whatever comes along isn't going to be that big.  It might be simpler, easier, and more dependable, but it won't be that much different.  Meanwhile, I'm sure I don't have to tell you how much difference there is between DC and DCC.

I would like to see a better flex track, honestly.  Something with the scale look of Micro Engineering but with the flexibility of Atlas would be great.  I love the looks of ME track, but bending it is such a pain.  Atlas lays down so nicely, but even their Code 83 looks like a pair of huge I-beams.

npdprr,
Don't forget the rise of the Virtual Railfan cameras.  One doesn't have to stand trackside to watch real trains anymore.

selector,
This is a tinkerer's hobby.  Always has been, always will be.  Expecting to jump into this hobby and have everything work perfectly and not have to perform any maintenance is about as logical as buying a new car and then being surprised when you have to add more gas or change the oil every so often.

Trains today run superbly compared to trains of the past.  Athearn BB's with sintered wheels & rusty electrical pick-ups, pan-cake motors, half-wheel pick-ups, growling gears, etc.  There used to be a whole sub-segment of this hobby obessed with getting engines to crawl at slow speeds measured not in MPH but in ties per minute.  Today, most every brand new engine will run very slowly that right out of the box.  What more do you want?

snjroy,
Actually, the cost of a basic decoder has dropped by 1/3rd since they were introduced around 1998, and now they are better.  When my club got into DCC in January 1999, the Digitrax DH120 was $20.  Today, the much-improved DH126 decoder is $20.  Yes, I know that's that the same price, but consider the cost of inflation.  That $20 decoder in 1998 would cost $32.66 today, yet it's still just $20...all while having more advanced features.

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Posted by JDawg on Sunday, April 18, 2021 5:53 PM

richhotrain
 
JDawg

As a younger modeler with a "limited" income I can speak from experience when I say that model railroading is just too expensive sometimes. For example, here is how I started out when I got into "real" railroading. I wanted to get a decent dcc system. NCE powercab for example. $170 at a retailers sale. Dcc and sound equipped locomotive, let's say an Atlas model, $200 on sale. Rolling stock? 5 accurail cars for $100. Then I need track. A basic oval with a passing siding is $60(atlas brand). Add in your wiring, benchwork and any incidental costs, and presto! You are north of 600$! Could you go cheaper? Absolutly! But this is the path I wanted to take. I wanted dcc, I wanted sound, I wanted a quality locomotive without paying for super duper details. So this is what I ended up with. Cost is my biggest limiting factor I the hobby, not space. Some railroaders complain that they don't have enough space, which is a real problem, I'm not saying they don't have a valid complaint. Yet here I am wishing I had the money to fill the space I do have. My two cents, take it as you will.

 

 

 

Well said, JDawg. 

 

Rich

 

 

Thanks Rich

JJF


Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing. Smile, Wink & Grin

Yesterday is History.

Tomorrow is a Mystery.

But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present. 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 18, 2021 5:50 PM

JDawg

As a younger modeler with a "limited" income I can speak from experience when I say that model railroading is just too expensive sometimes. For example, here is how I started out when I got into "real" railroading. I wanted to get a decent dcc system. NCE powercab for example. $170 at a retailers sale. Dcc and sound equipped locomotive, let's say an Atlas model, $200 on sale. Rolling stock? 5 accurail cars for $100. Then I need track. A basic oval with a passing siding is $60(atlas brand). Add in your wiring, benchwork and any incidental costs, and presto! You are north of 600$! Could you go cheaper? Absolutly! But this is the path I wanted to take. I wanted dcc, I wanted sound, I wanted a quality locomotive without paying for super duper details. So this is what I ended up with. Cost is my biggest limiting factor I the hobby, not space. Some railroaders complain that they don't have enough space, which is a real problem, I'm not saying they don't have a valid complaint. Yet here I am wishing I had the money to fill the space I do have. My two cents, take it as you will.

 

Well said, JDawg. Yes

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by JDawg on Sunday, April 18, 2021 5:48 PM

As a younger modeler with a "limited" income I can speak from experience when I say that model railroading is just too expensive sometimes. For example, here is how I started out when I got into "real" railroading. I wanted to get a decent dcc system. NCE powercab for example. $170 at a retailers sale. Dcc and sound equipped locomotive, let's say an Atlas model, $200 on sale. Rolling stock? 5 accurail cars for $100. Then I need track. A basic oval with a passing siding is $60(atlas brand). Add in your wiring, benchwork and any incidental costs, and presto! You are north of 600$! Could you go cheaper? Absolutly! But this is the path I wanted to take. I wanted dcc, I wanted sound, I wanted a quality locomotive without paying for super duper details. So this is what I ended up with. Cost is my biggest limiting factor in the hobby, not space. Some railroaders complain that they don't have enough space, which is a real problem, I'm not saying they don't have a valid complaint. Yet here I am wishing I had the money to fill the space I do have. My two cents, take it as you will.

 

Also, I have met so so so many modelers that talk down to me just because I don't have a basement sized layout, these older men's attitudes are a real problem. Glance around the forum, look at some people's reply's, and you'll see what I mean. Not to say the whole forum stinks, there are some real awesome people out there To be sure.

JJF


Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing. Smile, Wink & Grin

Yesterday is History.

Tomorrow is a Mystery.

But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present. 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 18, 2021 5:31 PM

selector

It's mostly well-fixed men whose kids are 'paid out' and on their own, with homes they own and disposable income who can do this hobby 'seriously.'  Whatever that means, it means bucks and time.  And not a little nostalgia.

As someone just said above, trains are like the bowels of ships.  Interesting, but only if you find yourself down there.  Not likely when the psychology of amazon and your current smart phone are working against you and your spare time.  Besides, how much did you spend on your hobby when you were 30?  Isn't that going to a data plan and a new $500 phone 'bout every 24 months?

The hobby is frustrating, and newcomers are soon swamped with the complexities and vagaries of it.  They find that their trains don't turn on and run like their Samsung/Apple phone does.  First time your train derails, or it stalls due to issues of one kind or another, it takes the starch out of one's verve for the hobby.  Phones bring cudos, thumbs up, interesting info-bytes, recipes, nudges, and all the motivation and encouragement that a body can stand.  Trains don't do that unless you know what you're doing, and it takes work besides.

So, while Sheldon has a point that we don't need a replacement for DCC, we do need a different way to power our locomotives.  They mostly run well enough out of the box, but they won't run long before we have to fix something to get them to run reliably.  I have yet to use alcohol-soaked rags, a Bright Boy, 600 girt paper, or fix a solder on my S9.  Which, by the way, is marvelous, and I won't be replacing it until at least 2023.

Oh, and I can't cast from my BLI UP 9000 hybrid to my Samsung 65" OLED to watch bike races.  Not yet, anyway. 

I think that this says it all and says it well.

So, I will regurgitate Crandell's main points.

It's mostly well-fixed men whose kids are 'paid out' and on their own, with homes they own and disposable income who can do this hobby 'seriously.'  Whatever that means, it means bucks and time.  And not a little nostalgia. 

Ain't that the truth.

Besides, how much did you spend on your hobby when you were 30?  

Yep, the hobby can be expensive and, perhaps, out of reach financially for younger folks with limited or no discretionary income.

The hobby is frustrating, and newcomers are soon swamped with the complexities and vagaries of it.  First time your train derails, or it stalls due to issues of one kind or another, it takes the starch out of one's verve for the hobby.  

Tell me about it. How often as a newbie did I suffer derailments, unintended uncouplings, fry a decoder, etc. I am surprised that I am still in the hobby.

We do need a different way to power our locomotives.  They mostly run well enough out of the box, but they won't run long before we have to fix something to get them to run reliably.  

Why do we as grown men put up with this frustration?

Rich

 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 4:40 PM

snjroy

Well, here is my list:

-Less expensive decoders. I can't understand why the cost of simple decoders (motor control and headlight) has not come down

-Acrylic paint for model railroaders

-Good DIY decal systems 

-DCC system with smartphone control capability "out of the box"

Simon

 

Simon, this is no way a criticism of your list, those are all very logical needs.

But just to show how diverse the hobby has become:

I don't use DCC so I don't need decoders, but I thought they had become pretty affordable?

I don't use acrylic paint in my airbrush, and after one bad experiance with it I'm not in a hurry to try again. Happy with Scalecoat.

I'm a freelance modeler so decals are important to me, but based on what I have paid to have them made, I'm in no hurry to buy equipment make my own.

Even if I used DCC (which I have used a lot on other peoples layouts), I would not want a smartphone to ever control my trains. I would have to buy the smart phone.....

And that is one of the challenges today, the hobby becomes ever more diverse with the march of time and technology, all the while those not already interested in railroading see less of it in real life.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by snjroy on Sunday, April 18, 2021 4:08 PM

Well, here is my list:

-Less expensive decoders. I can't understand why the cost of simple decoders (motor control and headlight) has not come down

-Acrylic paint for model railroaders

-Good DIY decal systems 

-DCC system with smartphone control capability "out of the box"

Simon

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 3:15 PM

selector

It's mostly well-fixed men whose kids are 'paid out' and on their own, with homes they own and disposable income who can do this hobby 'seriously.'  Whatever that means, it means bucks and time.  And not a little nostalgia.

As someone just said above, trains are like the bowels of ships.  Interesting, but only if you find yourself down there.  Not likely when the psychology of amazon and your current smart phone are working against you and your spare time.  Besides, how much did you spend on your hobby when you were 30?  Isn't that going to a data plan and a new $500 phone 'bout every 24 months?

The hobby is frustrating, and newcomers are soon swamped with the complexities and vagaries of it.  They find that their trains don't turn on and run like their Samsung/Apple phone does.  First time your train derails, or it stalls due to issues of one kind or another, it takes the starch out of one's verve for the hobby.  Phones bring cudos, thumbs up, interesting info-bytes, recipes, nudges, and all the motivation and encouragement that a body can stand.  Trains don't do that unless you know what you're doing, and it takes work besides.

So, while Sheldon has a point that we don't need a replacement for DCC, we do need a different way to power our locomotives.  They mostly run well enough out of the box, but they won't run long before we have to fix something to get them to run reliably.  I have yet to use alcohol-soaked rags, a Bright Boy, 600 girt paper, or fix a solder on my S9.  Which, by the way, is marvelous, and I won't be replacing it until at least 2023.

Oh, and I can't cast from my BLI UP 9000 hybrid to my Samsung 65" OLED to watch bike races.  Not yet, anyway.

 

That is an interesting perspective, and I can't disagree, but I don't have a smartphone, and I only have a tablet because I need it for work and navagation since I was not paying $6,000 more for my pickup to get it built in.

I'm not really on social media, my web activities revolve around work, trains, garden tractors, and sometimes classic autos. I avoid the rest as much as possible.

I'm generally an optimistic person, but I don't get young people, and I'm prefer any "people" in small doses.

So I'm way past the point of figuring out how to "save" the hobby or recruit new people.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 3:02 PM

richhotrain

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Agreed, but I am starting to think that for those younger than us Rich, social media and Youtube will do at least part of the job.

 

 

Maybe, but there is nothing to compare to the old fashioned LHS hand holding.

 

Rich

 

Agreed, but I don't know how we can get that back? At least not on a large scale like when I was in that business.

In the 70's there were over dozen train stores/hobby shops in the Baltimore Metro, today, two/three, maybe 5 if you count some of the ones in the "farther out suburbs".

In fact, in this region, and I'm talking from Phily to Richmond, more of the successful shops are in truely rural areas, or very small towns, and not in the population centers.

Maybe this reflects who is a model railroader, where live, and where they will travel?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 18, 2021 2:49 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Agreed, but I am starting to think that for those younger than us Rich, social media and Youtube will do at least part of the job.

Maybe, but there is nothing to compare to the old fashioned LHS hand holding.

Rich

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Posted by selector on Sunday, April 18, 2021 2:49 PM

It's mostly well-fixed men whose kids are 'paid out' and on their own, with homes they own and disposable income who can do this hobby 'seriously.'  Whatever that means, it means bucks and time.  And not a little nostalgia.

As someone just said above, trains are like the bowels of ships.  Interesting, but only if you find yourself down there.  Not likely when the psychology of amazon and your current smart phone are working against you and your spare time.  Besides, how much did you spend on your hobby when you were 30?  Isn't that going to a data plan and a new $500 phone 'bout every 24 months?

The hobby is frustrating, and newcomers are soon swamped with the complexities and vagaries of it.  They find that their trains don't turn on and run like their Samsung/Apple phone does.  First time your train derails, or it stalls due to issues of one kind or another, it takes the starch out of one's verve for the hobby.  Phones bring cudos, thumbs up, interesting info-bytes, recipes, nudges, and all the motivation and encouragement that a body can stand.  Trains don't do that unless you know what you're doing, and it takes work besides.

So, while Sheldon has a point that we don't need a replacement for DCC, we do need a different way to power our locomotives.  They mostly run well enough out of the box, but they won't run long before we have to fix something to get them to run reliably.  I have yet to use alcohol-soaked rags, a Bright Boy, 600 girt paper, or fix a solder on my S9.  Which, by the way, is marvelous, and I won't be replacing it until at least 2023.

Oh, and I can't cast from my BLI UP 9000 hybrid to my Samsung 65" OLED to watch bike races.  Not yet, anyway.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, April 18, 2021 12:35 PM

Texas Zephyr

 

 
rrebell
What we need is a good book. There are no good books that go into model railroad design and building that don't get caught up in "I think or my way" and even the experts on a method don't have the answers when things go wrong.

 

Unfortunately fewer and fewer people are reading books.  Seems they want everything in "video" format.  I am not certain a book would be profitable for one to write.

 

 

Books can be digitized, another publication is basicaly that and a digituzed version can be surchable.

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Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, April 18, 2021 12:02 PM

Seems to me there are much fewer real size trains.  No visual stimulation results in lesser interest. (Insert joke about girls here).  I now live in Northern Michigan where we get one engine with one load of lumber every 3 to 4 weeks and it runs slower then 5mph.  Not very exciting to even railfans

 

 

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Posted by dknelson on Sunday, April 18, 2021 11:42 AM

Maybe model railroading is not in need of anything -- or rather I should say, we are already model railroaders and seem to be doing OK so what WE might like to see is not necessarily what the hobby of model railroading needs to grow and thrive.  Our side of the hobby is mature.  

The current distribution system for the hobby seems entirely oriented to existing hobbyists.  We know what websites to go to, we know what firms offer what and what we have to do to order it in time to get it.  But what non-model railroad hobbyist wanders into that world of catalogs and website ordering and pre-orders and the like? 

That is where the old local hobby shop served both sides of the coin: the experienced model railroader and the person, maybe a kid but maybe not, who just wandered into the store, or saw something interesting in the window, or had another hobby that was catered to by that same shop and found themselves wandering in the train department.

Similarly many hobbyists used to tell of how they came to be introduced to the hobby by looking at a magazine rack and finding a model railroad magazine with an interesting cover and decided to just buy and issue - and got hooked.  

So to my mind what the hobby really needs is a way to interest the folks (adults; I would not hold out until kids are interested like they were 60 years ago) who are not already intersted but might be predisposed to becoming interested.  But since LHSs and magazine racks are not coming back, I don't know what it is.  Maybe the model train displays at Menards stores can help a little.  Viral videos from Miniatur Wunderland help a little.  Photos of Rod Stewart's layout help a little.  I do not know if Big Bang Theory helped or hurt.

But more than that stuff is needed.    

Dave Nelson

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    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, April 18, 2021 11:33 AM

A better forum.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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    July 2006
  • 118 posts
Posted by Texas Zephyr on Sunday, April 18, 2021 11:12 AM

rrebell
What we need is a good book. There are no good books that go into model railroad design and building that don't get caught up in "I think or my way" and even the experts on a method don't have the answers when things go wrong.

Unfortunately fewer and fewer people are reading books.  Seems they want everything in "video" format.  I am not certain a book would be profitable for one to write.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 10:45 AM

richhotrain

The OP's question begs the difference between newcomers and veterans to the hobby of model railroading.

After 17 years in the hobby, I consider myself a veteran hobbyist, and my MR needs are stuff like advanced signal systems.

But, newcomers face a more difficult task. When I started out in HO scale modeling in 2004, I had three local hobby shops. One in particular told me, and showed me, everything that I needed to know to kickstart my way into the hobby. The owner and his sidekick introduced me to DCC, decoders, flextrack, turnouts, Tortoises, wiring, electronics, and on and on and on.

Without them, I would not be in the hobby today. They referred me to this forum and others. Once all three LHS closed a few years later, I had the foundation to continue and use this forum as backup.

For those newcomers today who don't have a LHS, they are in for an uphill struggle. I don't know how you solve that problem.

Rich

 

Agreed, but I am starting to think that for those younger than us Rich, social media and Youtube will do at least part of the job.

As may know, I stareted young in this hobby with lots of good mentors, and by young adulthood I was working in a hobby shop helping others get started just like you experianced.

I owe a lot to those who got me started, and gave me the opportunity to be in clubs with experianced modelers and to work in the industry.

I belong to two Facebook model train groups, and I have only made about three posts - it is the only thing I have done on facebook.

But I can see how it is connecting modelers like the hobby shop and clubs did years ago.

The other thing I will make a pitch for, which can be connected thru social media, is round robin groups. Clubs without club layouts, dues, LLC's. A group of guys who meet at each other homes to run trains, work on layouts together and share the hobby. 

I belonged to a great one for many years, only left it because of other personal commitments and need to balnce my modeling time.

Sheldon 

    

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 18, 2021 10:34 AM

The OP's question begs the difference between newcomers and veterans to the hobby of model railroading.

After 17 years in the hobby, I consider myself a veteran hobbyist, and my MR needs are stuff like advanced signal systems.

But, newcomers face a more difficult task. When I started out in HO scale modeling in 2004, I had three local hobby shops. One in particular told me, and showed me, everything that I needed to know to kickstart my way into the hobby. The owner and his sidekick introduced me to DCC, decoders, flextrack, turnouts, Tortoises, wiring, electronics, and on and on and on.

Without them, I would not be in the hobby today. They referred me to this forum and others. Once all three LHS closed a few years later, I had the foundation to continue and use this forum as backup.

For those newcomers today who don't have a LHS, as local hobby shops fade away, they are in for an uphill struggle. I don't know how you solve that problem.

Rich

Alton Junction

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    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 10:06 AM

dehusman

A wider range of eras.   Right now, if you go into a hobby shop and look at the products, you would think railroads were invented sometime after WW1.  The first 100 years of railroading is pretty much ignored.

 

I agree, and it is disappointing that Athearn has not done more with the Roundhouse line.

The problem, as I have talked about before, is the ever increasing number of eras modelers have to choose from. Even if the number of modelers is steady or growing, I suspect the growth is not as fast as the march of time and thereby there are few modelers in ANY given era, and the eras before the 50's are quickly becoming less popular.

If I was to model a different era from my 1954 choice, it would be 1910-1915. 

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 18, 2021 9:52 AM

Lastspikemike

 

What would benefit this hobby is a forum where excessive obsession with detail and accuracy was less prominent.  Just my opinion but, objectively, this forum is unnecessarily intimidating to any newcomer. Seriously folks, an attitude adjustment is long overdue here, 

 

Have you checked out the Bachmann forum? It is filled with much more casual modelers, and it is a good forum. I once spent lots of time there, but simply limit my online time now.

Sheldon

    

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