ATLANTIC CENTRAL Paul, I know all that, I just find it amusing that they have yet to make ANYTHING I want. Admittedly there might have been a few things they were just too late with......but not all that many. Maybe one day. Sheldon
Paul,
I know all that, I just find it amusing that they have yet to make ANYTHING I want.
Admittedly there might have been a few things they were just too late with......but not all that many.
Maybe one day.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No doubt the hobby is changing even more, moving me even further from having much in common with many "modelers". Sheldon
No doubt the hobby is changing even more, moving me even further from having much in common with many "modelers".
Trainman440 They cancelled the PAs? Darn, I was really looking forward to them. They seem to have lots of trouble with demand. First their CNR 4-6-0, now the PAs. Not that I can afford anything rapido anyways. Edit: nvm, I stand corrected. Charles
They cancelled the PAs? Darn, I was really looking forward to them. They seem to have lots of trouble with demand. First their CNR 4-6-0, now the PAs.
Not that I can afford anything rapido anyways.
Edit: nvm, I stand corrected.
Charles
Engi1487, not sure why you are asking this now?
First of all, to my knowledge the Rapido PA's have never been canceled, what was canceled was the undecorated versions of them.
Second of all, I am not familiar with another modeler who might call his railroad the Atlantic Central, but no, my layout has not been in Great Model Railroads. I have not purchased or seen every issue of Great Model Railroads so I am not familiar with the layout you are referring to.
Next, I don't expect you or anyone on here to remember all my business, but as it happens I model my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL and on my layout I have interchanges with the C&O, B&O, and WESTERN MARYLAND.
So I purchase locos undecorated to letter for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL and already decorated for the B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND. Is that OK with you?
B&O and C&O E8's would be a product of interest to me. Those two roads owned a large precentage of all the E8's built.
The lack of B&O and C&O being offered on the first run from Rapido was why I started this thread. At least around here they would likely be popular.
I have to ask Sheldon, what is moving further from what you used to have in common with many modellers?
Well, it seems many modelers today are content to buy locomotives and rolling stock RTR and take them out of the box and put them on the track, and contribute no artistic or modeling skill to their presence on the layout.
No kit building, no weathering, no modifications, no kit bashing into something not available.
That leaves building the layout as the only creative or skilled part of the hobby - I like layout building, but I also like building or modifying the trains themselves.
I have less in common with modelers who do not build or modify rolling stock or locos.
I think he's confusing your Atlantic Central with the late Jack Ozanich's Atlantic Great Eastern.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Engi1487, not sure why you are asking this now? Sheldon
I am only interested in weathering for scale vehicle models (tanks, various war machcines etc) as thats a related hobby I am interested in. With model trains however I just dont want to weather them. But that might change in future.As for the E8s I am interested in the later CPR block lettering maroon livery and VIA rail livery as I am Canadian and am glad Rapido is doing this, as I have a long facination with these six axle bullnose dog units. They will look good for exursion services on my idea for a layout.Hope we cleared this up Sheldon.- Gilbert
Gilbert,
That's fine.
If you look at pictures I have posted on here you will only find some rolling stock/locos and pictures from my last layout with no scenery. I never finished the layout and never photogaphed the more complete sections befor it came down for a rebuild that did not get far because of a move.
I model 1954 (earlier typo corrected), I know a long time ago. I don't really have any serious interest in newer trains. Sure I like all trains but I do not spend time keeping up with newer stuff or money buying models of them.
I ONLY buy models that fit my layout theme. I am very disciplined about this.
If you want to see my idea of good modeling, take note of pictures posted by Dr Wayne of his layout and equipment. As of yet I'm not the best model photographer.
My thread about my track plan explains in great detail most of my ideas about model railroading.
I am getting ready to start on that layout soon.
If I remember correctly you are young? I am not, I am 63 and I have been modeling since age 10. My father was a modeler to some degree and got me started. You can find a more detailed story about that somewhere in my posts as well.
I like building things, I restore 100 plus year old houses for a living, I design houses and the removations for them.
I have restored automobiles, designed built hifi stereo speakers, and designed and built my own control system for model trains.
I don't use DCC, I don't like onboard sound, I don't care about the future value of the models I buy, and I don't do anything just because it is "popular".
Again, I think if you read my layout thread from the beginning you will get it. You may not agree or understand why, but you will understand what I am doing.
Rapido makes great trains, but I already have most of the trains I want and need, and I am not the kind of person who gets tired of things and sells them to buy different things.
So my interest in Rapido E8's or PA's was to possibly add a few more pieces, but only if they fit my needs exactly.
I don't understand the logic on not providing an undecorated anything. They are all that until factory painted. Not a big deal to me to box them up even if it is just one. That has to be done anyway. Since at least one step is saved in not painting them the cost should be less and the price the same so the profit might be higher
Lastspikemike ndbprr I don't understand the logic on not providing an undecorated anything. They are all that until factory painted. Not a big deal to me to box them up even if it is just one. That has to be done anyway. Since at least one step is saved in not painting them the cost should be less and the price the same so the profit might be higher Are they all painted 100% or are some colours or aspects moulded in? Then there's the labour involved in retaining and packaging the required number of undecorated shells. In cost of production terms undecorated models are just another road name.
ndbprr I don't understand the logic on not providing an undecorated anything. They are all that until factory painted. Not a big deal to me to box them up even if it is just one. That has to be done anyway. Since at least one step is saved in not painting them the cost should be less and the price the same so the profit might be higher
Are they all painted 100% or are some colours or aspects moulded in?
Then there's the labour involved in retaining and packaging the required number of undecorated shells.
In cost of production terms undecorated models are just another road name.
Almost all are molded in light grey and painted these days.
But I do understand the extra costs/steps in selling undecorated models.
I could say more about this, but not right now....
ATLANTIC CENTRALIf you look at pictures I have posted on here you will only find some rolling stock/locos and pictures from my last layout with no scenery. I never finished the layout and never photogaphed the more complete sections before it came down for a rebuild that did not get far because of a move.
That is almost the identical story of my spare bedroom layout. Most of it was unfinished wood due to two major rebuild projects to go from around-the-wall to loop-to-loop, and then point-to-point, none of which I was happy with.
I do not have any photographs of the layout other than a handful that are actually of my daughters in the train room, so the layout is out of focus in the background.
I never had emotional happiness with that layout.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I certainly agree with what you're saying, but it seems that those of us who prefer to paint and letter our locos and rolling stock are a diminishing market. Still, if one wanted, f'rinstance, 5 undecorated boxcars and was willing to pre-order them, I can't see why it wouldn't be do-able...as you say, all they need to do is skip the paint and lettering steps, and simply put the parts in the box.My sole Rapido model was an undecorated kit for their meat reefer, admittedly a pretty simple model with not a lot of parts...
Like Sheldon, I'd like to support Rapido, but they don't offer much that's appropriate for my layout's late '30s setting, although I did buy four of their electric switch motors, too. I attempted to purchase a couple of their PRR boxcars, too, from an on-line hobbyshop which I occasionally access, but they didn't have sufficient orders for those cars, and couldn't come up with only two of them.
Wayne
I am one of those guys that wants undecorated kits, but I have to admit that I understand why manufacturers are reluctant to offer them.
My Athearn airslide hopper car undecorated kit was a nightmare. There were pieces missing, and there was no way to pack the pieces into the box, so several parts were deformed.
My Intermountain Caswell gondola had the same packaging problems, and the instructions were terrible.
The additional problems with accounting for all those small parts, and producing instructions makes undecorated offerings difficult in terms of modern plastic models.
This is a lot of stuff to keep track of and package well. This Intermountain hopper car has excellent instructions.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Gilbert, I model 1854, I know a long time ago. If I remember correctly you are young? I am not, I am 63 and I have been modeling since age 10. My father was a modeler to some degree and got me started. You can find a more detailed story about that somewhere in my posts as well. Sheldon
I model 1854, I know a long time ago.
Hi Sheldon. You model 1854? Thats seems a long ways off from these E8s you and I are interested in, as they where not concieved yet as steam was the main power type. Maybe you meant to say "1954," as "1854," seems like a typo?As for my age I just turned 27 years a few weeks ago. I hear people saying at funerals or when someone who has passed away at 63, that 63 isnt that old, the person died too soon and that they died too young. I mean the "age is just a number," saying is meant to be a positive thing, but its ok to say your not young. Anyway, back on track.My first issue of MRR was October 2004 and me and my dad did create a simple layout with an outer loop and inner loop with a siidng on a brown painted table with his older HO tyco trains. I do regret not getting interested in adding scenery nor anything else as I was only interested in reading the magazine and nothing else, so we lost interest in it.I would recently in 2018 regain my interest in the hobby. As for what I model I will write that in my bio desc, as I need to finish this comment to your reply first.
As for discipline, I grew up with alot of trains & MRR media which exposed to me a wide varity of real protypical trains and seieng trains was a rarity for me, until I learned how to drive, time when trains where coming via railfanning facebook groups and my interest further developed.I realize now how important disapline is in this hobby, as I want to avoid the impuse buying and sort term satification of buying a model then selling it due to lose of interest.Hope to see your reply and reply in return.- Gilbert
Yes, a typo, 1954
ATLANTIC CENTRALAthearn. LifeLike, Wathers, Bowser, Intermountain and others did it for years. No doubt the hobby is changing even more, moving me even further from having much in common with many "modelers".
What would you say is changing about it that is bad to you? And what don't you have in common with many modelers today?
mattyjoe ATLANTIC CENTRAL Athearn. LifeLike, Wathers, Bowser, Intermountain and others did it for years. No doubt the hobby is changing even more, moving me even further from having much in common with many "modelers". What would you say is changing about it that is bad to you? And what don't you have in common with many modelers today?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Athearn. LifeLike, Wathers, Bowser, Intermountain and others did it for years. No doubt the hobby is changing even more, moving me even further from having much in common with many "modelers".
The logic seems to be, not enough people are willing to buy them. The Rapido PA seems to be a great example. It was offered, and according to Rapido, not enough were pre sold to warrant production. Rapido has also talked about dropping paint schemes that were offered originally, if not enough were pre ordered to make production worth it.
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-129---These-Budds-Are-For-You--And-EMD--And-BBD--And---.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=PPWzE5ObTDA
An "expensive model collector"
I don't understand what's so hard to understand about the logic.
If locomotives are left undecorated and sell poorly compared to locomotives that are decorated, that's the reason to not offer undecorated models. If the market isn't there, it isn't there.
You act like it's easier to leave them undecorated, so logically there's no reason they shouldn't. Well, undecorated models sitting unsold on the shelves is worse than just having them all decorated in popular schemes and getting them sold.
OP understands this, which is why his ire turns towards people who order decorated models, claiming they're not true modelers and they're ruining the hobby.
mattyjoe I don't understand what's so hard to understand about the logic. If locomotives are left undecorated and sell poorly compared to locomotives that are decorated, there's the reason to not offer undecorated models. If the market isn't there, it isn't there. You act like it's easier to leave them undecorated, so logically there's no reason they shouldn't. Well, undecorated models sitting unsold on the shelves is worse than just having them all decorated in popular schemes and getting them sold.
If locomotives are left undecorated and sell poorly compared to locomotives that are decorated, there's the reason to not offer undecorated models. If the market isn't there, it isn't there.
I hope you are not talking to me.....
I once worked in this business, I do understand the costs involved in offering any model, and the costs of doing business.
I more than understand why Rapido, or any manufacturer needs to only make what sells.
AS EXPLAINED BEFORE, SOMEWHERE IN THE LAST THREE PAGES, what disappointed me is that Rapido announced the ALCO PA model, and announced undecorated versions would be offered.
I PREORDERED THEM with one of my favorite retailers, then I get told they will not be made because enough did not get ordered.
There was no notice or disclaimer when I ordered them that production was subject to sufficient orders??????
OK, so I found some more 20 year old, new old stock, Proto2000 PA's to complete my roster in that department.
Then Rapido announces the EMD E8, in a long list of roadnames, but that list skipped over two of the largest original purchasers E8's, B&O and C&O, both of which are railroads I model and may have been interested in expanding that roster with a few more.
So I started this thread and expressed my disapointment that once again I would like to buy something from Rapido but they are not making what I need.
I'm not a random collector of "pretty" models, I only buy models that have an operational role on my layout. I have no shelf queens, no display collection....
I am also a freelance modeler, I paint and decal equipment to my own fictional roadname. For that I want undecorated models - lucky for me I have most of what I want for my layout already........
I may address some of the other recent comments separately in a bit.
Sheldon, I think he was responding pretty explicitly to ndbprr.
(Folks, this is yet another reason to use the 'quote' feature judiciously when actually responding to particular opinions. Just sayin'...)
mattyjoe...OP understands this, which is why his ire turns towards people who order decorated models, claiming they're not true modelers and they're ruining the hobby.
I don't see any ire, and no denigration of other modellers, either. Those of us who prefer to "roll our own" paint schemes seldom disparage the practices of other modellers, as our lament is for the changing times relative to what we've been accustomed.
I might not agree with the modelling practices of some, but I always respect their choices.
mattyjoe I don't understand what's so hard to understand about the logic. If locomotives are left undecorated and sell poorly compared to locomotives that are decorated, that's the reason to not offer undecorated models. If the market isn't there, it isn't there. You act like it's easier to leave them undecorated, so logically there's no reason they shouldn't. Well, undecorated models sitting unsold on the shelves is worse than just having them all decorated in popular schemes and getting them sold. OP understands this, which is why his ire turns towards people who order decorated models, claiming they're not true modelers and they're ruining the hobby.
Your last edit is a mischaracterization of what I said, by a long shot.
This is a broad and diverse hobby and everyone should enjoy it as they see fit. I'm not judging anyone as a "real modeler" or "not a real modeler", that is not what I said.
But I am saying this, if you show me your new stock out of the box locomotive and say "look what I bought, it was $700", my reply will be "that's nice", and I will not have much more to say.
If you show me the locomotive you bought, and kit bashed to make it more correct, or to represent a slightly different version, or you did a great weathering job on it, Then I will be asking questions, "how did you do this, or what weathering method did you use for that", and so on.
Here is a clue for you, when someone says to me "I don't weather my models because it will hurt the resale value", then I know they are not in the same "branch" of the hobby as me.
I have never bought any model thinking I would resell it or worrying about its resale value.
There is nothing WRONG with their "branch" of the hobby, it just does not interest me.
I've been at this for 53 years, quess what? I have never owned a model of a UP BigBoy, don't have any interest in owning one, I don't model UP. I have about 140 locomotives, in 53 years I have only sold off about 3, maybe 4, after deciding they would not fit the theme or work as I expected for a project.
Back to the idea of RTR - I buy LOTS of RTR, but I don't loose any sleep over weathering them, modifying them, lettering them to my fictional railroad.
I love all these great models we have these days.
But there are problems with the product supply chain in this hobby, that is another LONG conversation to get into.
Overmod Sheldon, I think he was responding pretty explicitly to ndbprr. (Folks, this is yet another reason to use the 'quote' feature judiciously when actually responding to particular opinions. Just sayin'...)
Well, I might have agreed until he edited his post to include a reference to the "OP" - me.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Overmod Sheldon, I think he was responding pretty explicitly to ndbprr. (Folks, this is yet another reason to use the 'quote' feature judiciously when actually responding to particular opinions. Just sayin'...) Well, I might have agreed until he edited his post to include a reference to the "OP" - me. Sheldon
Amazing what can happen in 15 minutes. Reminds me of the New Haven official concerned with a certain Baldwin RP210 who noted (slightly paraphrased) 'another 15 minutes and I could have been a hero'...
So you did not give me a chance to repond to this before you posted a bunch of other stuff that misrepresented what I said.........
Overmod ATLANTIC CENTRAL Overmod Sheldon, I think he was responding pretty explicitly to ndbprr. (Folks, this is yet another reason to use the 'quote' feature judiciously when actually responding to particular opinions. Just sayin'...) Well, I might have agreed until he edited his post to include a reference to the "OP" - me. Sheldon Well, that makes me the jackass of the day, doesn't it?
Well, that makes me the jackass of the day, doesn't it?
That's ok, some of them already think that about me.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL If you look at pictures I have posted on here you will only find some rolling stock/locos and pictures from my last layout with no scenery. I never finished the layout and never photogaphed the more complete sections before it came down for a rebuild that did not get far because of a move. That is almost the identical story of my spare bedroom layout. Most of it was unfinished wood due to two major rebuild projects to go from around-the-wall to loop-to-loop, and then point-to-point, none of which I was happy with. I do not have any photographs of the layout other than a handful that are actually of my daughters in the train room, so the layout is out of focus in the background. I never had emotional happiness with that layout. -Kevin
ATLANTIC CENTRAL If you look at pictures I have posted on here you will only find some rolling stock/locos and pictures from my last layout with no scenery. I never finished the layout and never photogaphed the more complete sections before it came down for a rebuild that did not get far because of a move.
Well, I don't know about the emotional part, but I was never good at remembering to take pictures.
I had a rather complex double deck layout about 90% of the benchwork built, 60% of the track down, when I two things happened. The wife and I decided we would not be staying in the big house forever, and a downsize might be sooner rather than later.
Just before that, I was having second thoughts about the double deck. Having built it, I was less than happy with the scenic aspects.
So I started a plan to disassemble the lower deck and rebuild the lower deck as modules that could move with me. That plan got interrupted by some family stuff, wife's health issues, etc. I did get a lot of the lower level apart while keeping part of the upper level as an operating layout of sorts.
I did start on some modules.
Now what could not be salvaged is in the landfill and we are in the downsized retirement house, which has a BIGGER train room - I win.
I am making ready the space for the new layout. The grandson and I will be working on layout related stuff again tomorrow.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I was never good at remembering to take pictures.
My biggest picture taking disaster was about 15 years ago. I bought a 5 megapixel digital camera, and used it for all kinds of pictures. However, I never backed any of it up. A computer failure caused the loss of about 5 years of pictures that cannot be retrieved.
Patience is a virtue and you should consider emailing them. I'm pretty sure they have a form where you can submit diagrams, prototype info, images etc. to convince them to either make a new product or do another run of something that hasn't been done.
Don't assume you've been left out entirely just because they don't cover all their bases in one massive production run. They want to fit in the Canadian stuff too to appease their home market. GM&O, Conrail (exec or otherwise), Lackawanna, Erie, CoG, Wabash, CNW, among other roads which have not been done in this first run. If you email or use the form, Rapido Trains will have a higher likelihood of doing B&O and/or C&O in their next run. Maybe hold off on buying P2K units for now if you can handle it, because you might be regretting it later on. Who knows, just giving my two cents.
SD45M Patience is a virtue and you should consider emailing them. I'm pretty sure they have a form where you can submit diagrams, prototype info, images etc. to convince them to either make a new product or do another run of something that hasn't been done. Don't assume you've been left out entirely just because they don't cover all their bases in one massive production run. They want to fit in the Canadian stuff too to appease their home market. GM&O, Conrail (exec or otherwise), Lackawanna, Erie, CoG, Wabash, CNW, among other roads which have not been done in this first run. If you email or use the form, Rapido Trains will have a higher likelihood of doing B&O and/or C&O in their next run. Maybe hold off on buying P2K units for now if you can handle it, because you might be regretting it later on. Who knows, just giving my two cents.
Well, thank you for your thoughts but no. I already have C&O and B&O Proto2000 E units and do not regret their purchase one bit. I have owned them for a long time and they have provided good service, I was just considering the idea of adding more when Rapido announced theirs.
Patience? I'm 63 and have been at this hobby for 53 years, I'm not planning my purchase choices around any companies preorder announcements or vaporware.
I already have what I need for my layout, anything extra now is just that, extra, because I can.