Rapido Trains has just announced a new locomotive offering.
And now, for the second time, they are apparently not interested in my money.
A while back they announced ALCO PA's, and I promptly put in my preorder for an undecorated A/B set in DC. Only to have Rapido later cancel the undecorated offering.........
I later found another NOS Proto2000 set of PA/PB undecorated locos to round out my PA fleet on the ACR.
Now they have just announced EMD E8's, a loco I like and maybe would spring for another set or two........
BUT,
the offerings do not include B&O, C&O or undecorated models?
The B&O and the C&O were major users of EMD E units, powering most of their passenger trains with them. Between them they owned over 10% of the E8's built. Not to mention all the E7's, E9's, & E6's the B&O had.
Well once again, if I decide I want more E units, I will be seaching for some more NOS Proto 2000.
Sorry Jason, I keep trying to buy something.....
Sheldon
Sheldon,The number of prototypical units for a particular railroad doesn't necessarily relate to sales. For example, take the one-of-a-kind Amtrak E8A 4316 model they've announced. Originally, it was capped at 500 units. It sold out in about 48 hours and Rapido had to re-open the order books so they could make more of them to satisfy the demand. Another is the NH EP-5 electric in yellow; it's the best selling SKU out of all the EP-5's they're making and it literally never left Erie, Penn. It was painted yellow, rolled out of the paint shop, the NH president picked the orange one, rolled back into the paint shop and re-painted orange. Talk about rare, it was never energized and got no closer than 400 miles to NH rails while yellow, and yet NH fans are buying it in droves.Rapido is making models that represent about 53% of all E8A's made. Not to mention that Amtrak had 150 E8A's they inherited, and Rapido is making four different numbers in Amtrak (plus the 4316).As for the undec.'s, Rapido can't make money selling undec. locos unless they make a dozen. Lately, undec. locos have been selling in the single digits. It's just not worth it, especially with all the variations they make. But if you can get together a group of folks that all want a specific undec. version, talk to Rapido; Jason said it's possible.Will they make B&O or C&O? Probably; just not this run.
You can please some of the people some of the time ... You know the rest.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Paul,
I know all that, I just find it amusing that they have yet to make ANYTHING I want.
Admittedly there might have been a few things they were just too late with......but not all that many.
Maybe one day.
If you want undecorated, why not just buy any roadname available and paint over it?
Seems no harder than starting with an undecorated, and could actually be easier if you happen to find a livery that partly matches what you're aiming for.
speedybee If you want undecorated, why not just buy any roadname available and paint over it? Seems no harder than starting with an undecorated, and could actually be easier if you happen to find a livery that partly matches what you're aiming for.
Not really, much harder actually.
Things like window glass need to be removed. Some details are better applied after major painting. Too many layers of paint hides detail, multi color paint schemes sometimes leave visible lines in paint overs, so that means disassembly and stripping, which often damages details.
Undecorated models traditionally come with the details unassembled, the body is basically a "kit", making it much easier to paint and detail. AND, most manufacturers include all orm ost of the various proto specific details for you to choose from when practical.
speedybeeIf you want undecorated, why not just buy any roadname available and paint over it?
That is not a good alternative.
Watch the Model Railroader Video Plus episode where Cody gets a GP ready for painting. You will see every problem that Sheldon mentioned, plus more. That should change your mind about this.
Undecorated models are the way to go, but painting and decalling is not something many people do anymore.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Ah, interesting. I have been intending to eventually repaint some engines with a custom job, but other projects and my general lack of artistic ability have put it on the back burner
That's one of the reasons why the G.N.O. Railway will never really be completed. I have a few undecorated boxcars. But I need flatcars, gondola, covered hoppers, hoppers to represent that my railroad exists with any Class I railroad.
I noticed that freight cars are getting harder to find for our fantasy livery lines. The closest I can probably do would be patches.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
Sheldon,I feel the same way about ExactRail or MTH. They've yet to make anything that interests me.
As for Rapido, what about the new F30D flat cars? As a fellow 1950s TOFC modeler like yourself, I've ordered two 6-packs; one in PRR and another in TTX. They should go well with my fleet of Walthers 75' F39A TOFC's. They are currently being offered undec., too. And I'm also getting a number of 35' Fruehauf vans to go with them (well, you know I'm getting at least all three NH trailers).
Jason wrote a recent article in RMC explaining how he runs his business and detailing the reasons behind the dreaded preorder and how they decide what to make and in what quantities. Nothing we haven't heard forum members speculate about in the past but it is nice to get it from the source.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Since we are asking for things, I’d like a Conrail executive train E8.
This is a good interview with Jason.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
maxman Since we are asking for things, I’d like a Conrail executive train E8.
I made a request for these on another forum I have a pair of the old Protos but they are just "stand-ins". Rapido could go all out and make a commemorative set of three like, IIRC, Overland did some years ago.
CR_OCS_4022 by Edmund, on Flickr
I hope the next run has the ex-Erie E-L units, too.
Mr Shron has explained, ad infinitum, why undecorated products are simply not feasable these days. Scroll to the bottom here, and see his tattered issue of M-R, too:
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Rapido-News-134---New-Steam-Samples--New-E8--New-Turboliner-video-.html?soid=1101318906379&aid=1GPOTJ74oAo
Look at the exploded diagram for his explanation!
Cheers, Ed
Paul3 Sheldon,I feel the same way about ExactRail or MTH. They've yet to make anything that interests me. As for Rapido, what about the new F30D flat cars? As a fellow 1950s TOFC modeler like yourself, I've ordered two 6-packs; one in PRR and another in TTX. They should go well with my fleet of Walthers 75' F39A TOFC's. They are currently being offered undec., too. And I'm also getting a number of 35' Fruehauf vans to go with them (well, you know I'm getting at least all three NH trailers).
Well, they are very nice, but I have already built over 100 piggyback flats from other sources......... Maybe just a few from Rapido at some point.
So here is my question, will the undecorated flats be the traditional "kit"? If so why not just offer one undecorated version with all the parts? If it comes assembled, no thank you.
I sent them an Email......
MTH and ExactRail, same here, don't own anything from them either.
speedybee Ah, interesting. I have been intending to eventually repaint some engines with a custom job, but other projects and my general lack of artistic ability have put it on the back burner
It helps to get different points of view.
I've been stripping, washing, and repainting decorated models for years. The details don't really get damaged, one or two might fall off, but the paint usually just peals right off with a soft toothbrush after soaking in 90% alcohol. Might have a little bit of careful work to do on the end of a hopper car. I have never done this with a highly detailed tank car. Mainly boxcars and diesel locomotives. A PA, F unit, or E unit would be super easy.
Most window glass is press fit into place, so you can either remove it or just mask around it.
Any details that fall off can be thought of just like assembling an indectorated kit. Except you might have 3 details to reattach instead of 150
Don't repaint over existing paint. Either strip one or buy undecorated, IMO.
- Douglas
Mr. Shron's explanation has some merit, but he chose an example that was easy for him to defend his position. An undecorated PA would not have multiple body shell parts; most anything that would be road specific would be an add on, unless I am greatly mistaken. Why not make the undec body available as a part?
I have not purchased anything Rapido, not because I won't, but because his offerings do not match what I need for ATSF or MKT.
Having been in thus hobby for 50 years, and having spent 10 years working in the model train/hobby business, I am well aware of the production and economic considerations. I will happily pay the same price, or even a small premium to get an unassembled, undecorated model that is otherwise sold RTR.
Seems to me adding all the details for that flat car into a single item would be better than having three different undecorated items. Unless they are assembled, in which case I will pass.
Athearn. LifeLike, Wathers, Bowser, Intermountain and others did it for years. No doubt the hobby is changing even more, moving me even further from having much in common with many "modelers".
I don't think the issue of not producing undecorated kits has to do with costs of "producing" an undecorated kit, per se, it has to do with not enough demand to offset the cost, a formula that applies to any flavor of locomotive.
If Rapido says they cannot offer undecorated versions unless they get 12 orders, that probably means they cannot offer decorated versions of ANY roadname unless they get 12 orders. They got at least 12 orders for every name they are making, or expect to, and they have not gotten 12 orders for the undecs; even though the cost to produce each flavor is basically the same.
Paul3 As for the undec.'s, Rapido can't make money selling undec. locos unless they make a dozen. Lately, undec. locos have been selling in the single digits. It's just not worth it, especially with all the variations they make.
As for the undec.'s, Rapido can't make money selling undec. locos unless they make a dozen. Lately, undec. locos have been selling in the single digits. It's just not worth it, especially with all the variations they make.
ATLANTIC CENTRALUndecorated models traditionally come with the details unassembled, the body is basically a "kit", making it much easier to paint and detail.
Ya that was true maybe 20 years ago. In recent years, most undec products come completely assembled, usually with the window glass firmly glued in place.
Just heard back from Rapido, the undecorated flat cars will be unassembled. I will pre-order a few. Just a few considering how nearly every railroad had their own unique rebuilds of 50' flat cars into piggyback service, and, as stated above, I already have over 100 piggyback flats kit bashed from a number of different models.
I can use a couple of these in PRR, and a few undecorated ones for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
But that really puts me at my usable limit for piggyback flats. And no, I will not sell off "lessor models" in favor of these. When 35 of them roll by at 50 smph, the fact that they will be a little different and add variety will mean more than detail level.
wjstix ATLANTIC CENTRAL Undecorated models traditionally come with the details unassembled, the body is basically a "kit", making it much easier to paint and detail. Ya that was true maybe 20 years ago. In recent years, most undec products come completely assembled, usually with the window glass firmly glued in place.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Undecorated models traditionally come with the details unassembled, the body is basically a "kit", making it much easier to paint and detail.
Well, I can't comment on right now, but stuff I bought 5 years ago was still a "kit".
And Rapido just answered my Email about the flat cars, the undecorated ones will be kits.
Every piece of undecorated Athearn/Roundhouse RTR rolling stock I have bought in 25 years came with the detail parts off. But, they are offering less undecorated items period.
That's ok, I have most of what I need and want, lots of stuff yet to be painted and assembled, and there is still lots on the secondary market.
I don't use sound or DCC, I'm not looking to replace what I have, it all suits my needs perfectly.
Just want to add a few strategic pieces if someone makes them.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Every piece of undecorated Athearn/Roundhouse RTR rolling stock I have bought in 25 years came with the detail parts off. But, they are offering less undecorated items period. Sheldon
What really gets me, is that Rapido gets crucified for not offering undecorated kits, but last year Athearn stated they would not do undecorated kits ever again, but not a word from modelers complaining about Athearn dropping undecorated kits.
Thank god that Tangent and Moloco still bring in kits for their models, not in stock all the time, but when a new run of decorated RTR comes in then there are kits back in stock.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
dti406 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Every piece of undecorated Athearn/Roundhouse RTR rolling stock I have bought in 25 years came with the detail parts off. But, they are offering less undecorated items period. Sheldon What really gets me, is that Rapido gets crucified for not offering undecorated kits, but last year Athearn stated they would not do undecorated kits ever again, but not a word from modelers complaining about Athearn dropping undecorated kits. Thank god that Tangent and Moloco still bring in kits for their models, not in stock all the time, but when a new run of decorated RTR comes in then there are kits back in stock. Rick Jesionowski
Well that's not me complaining about Rapido. My only gripe is they put it out there that they were going to make undecorated ALCO PA's, I preordered them, something I seldom do, then they changed their mind do to not enough orders.
I bought most of the Athearn RTR undecorated I could ever want the first time around when they were doing it. I'm pretty set.
Those other companies you mention don't make all that much in my era, not really on my radar.
To the folks above who mentioned there only needs to be ONE undecorated PA body, please think again and check the facts.
Some (including but not limited to Rio Grande and ATSF, and perhaps Southern) had large illuminated side number panels with the frame around the panel opening. There were undoubtedly other variations, such that depending upon how the body is tooled, there is no way to offer just one universal PA body that would be correct. The curved trim strip above the cab side windows varied and disappeared completely on late models. There are variations in fuel tank skirting (Overland Models made the skirting a separate piece on their models) and undoubtedly variations in the rear end and door areas of the units, plus variations in type of grills used (Alco horizontal slit versus later production use of Farr vertical slit grills). Also, there are variations in type, size and locations of nose mounted number boards.
Many prototype PA's had their turbochargers replaced with water-cooled while still young, which rotated the exhaust stack 90 degrees on top the roof. This included all Santa Fe units and most likely all Southern Pacific units.
Not all PA's had dynamic brakes, so there would have to be potentially 4 different roof versions between dynamic brakes or no, and water cooled or air cooled turbocharger.
Since Alco tended to make routine changes during production of most diesel locomotive models, I suspect that there are more variations than one might think exist. This list is only what I recall from memory as someone who used to be a PA fan.
E units may have been more standard but the devil is in the details.
John
Yes, when LifeLike did the first Proto 2000 PA's they did four different shells and offered all four undecorated at different times.
Four gets you close and covers the most common variations of the PA1, the hand full of PA2's built is another story.
But some of it could be done with insert pieces, you might be able to get down to just two shells for PA1 versions.
Does not matter to me now, I found enough of the Proto version I wanted NOS. I'm set with PA's and extra parts for way less money.
I know, they are not quite as "nice". Guess what, they are more than good enough.
They cancelled the PAs? Darn, I was really looking forward to them. They seem to have lots of trouble with demand. First their CNR 4-6-0, now the PAs.
Not that I can afford anything rapido anyways.
Edit: nvm, I stand corrected.
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
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speedybee If you want undecorated, why not just buy any road name available and paint over it? Seems no harder than starting with an undecorated and could actually be easier if you happen to find a livery that partly matches what you're aiming for.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
When CNW repainted the E units they bought from KCS, you could still see the lettering and striping under the yellow paint.I haven't worried about stripping a model since that day. Especially since the Bayfield Transfer Railway is a fourth rate short line that never bought so much as a single screwdriver new.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!