tin can,Um, actually, Rapido PA-1's definitely have more than one body shell.
Dynamics vs. no dynamics.Nose MU vs. no nose MU.Exposed front uncoupling lever vs. recessed type.Lit side numberboards vs. none.Lit number above windshield vs. none.Alco-style steam gen. vs. EMD-style steam gen.Side numberboards vs. angled numberboars vs. projecting numberboards.PRR rear markers vs. none.PRR nose vents vs. none.Round rear door window vs. oval rear door window.Rear side porthole window vs. none.Note that these aren't add-on detail parts. Each one of these variations needs a different tooling "slide" (or insert) to mold these changes into the shell.Lastspikemike,The cost of labor is a major chunk of each model made. Labor is so significant that Bowser cuts all their tooling in the USA and shoots all the plastic here, too. Then they box up the entire run of plastic bits still on sprues and ships it all to China for paint and assembly because the cost of Chinese labor is so low (tho' not as low as it used to be).I know from talking to the owner of BLI that the Chinese cost of making a 4-6-4 in "Hybrid" brass/diecast/plastic was $50 per unit for a $450 MSRP model in 2007 (about 11% of MSRP). He said he had $150 in fixed costs for that model, so it cost him $200 per unit to bring it to market. Labor was 25% of his cost. Five years later, that cost had tripled to $150 per unit for the exact same model and the MSRP jumped to $700 (21% of MSRP). BLI still had the same $150 in fixed costs, so it cost him $300 to bring it to market. Labor was 50% of his cost.Sheldon,As you know, the market has changed. Before, it was acceptable for Athearn to slap NH paint on an SDP40F, or make one road number for half a century. It was popular to create home roads because getting prototype models was either expensive, time consuming or both. Times have changed, and now it's much easier to make the prototype railroad you want vs. creating a home road because you can't model a prototype correctly.Part of the issue of making "one size fits all" for undec. models is sometimes due to the box they come in, as in all the details can't possible all fit. I wouldn't think it's an issue with the F30 flats, but I don't know how they're gonna be shipped. Maybe it was just easier to do three undec.'s?BTW, one nice thing with these Rapido flats is that the car chassis will be diecast metal and so is the deck. The deck will be removable in case you want a real wood deck, but you'll lose a bunch of car weight if you do. I have some of the diecast Model Power "Metal Train" 50' flats, and it's so nice to have a flat car that's the right weight.Doughless,In the past Rapido has said they would prefer orders for 200 for each paint scheme/variation for things like FL9's or RDC's. The fact that they're even willing to discuss a mere dozen undec.'s is rather amazing when you consider that scale.Engi1487,I don't know about the undec. Angus vans; I haven't heard either way. Perhaps the reason why they are still offering it is due to the fact that there's only one version?Stix,Window glue is a problem, but it's not always the case. I just stripped and painted an InterMountain NE-5 caboose, and all the glass was just press fit into place (except for the caboose doors windows, but they came out easy enough with a little prying). dti406,I think there's a real bias against Rapido in certain corners. They don't like that he's not serious enough, that they make silly videos, that Jason is "snarky", that he boasts about how good his models are vs. his competition, that he defends making his models in China, etc. So whenever they do make mistakes (which all companies do), or whenever they do something perceived as negative (like stop making undec.'s), they get all the vitriol. So Athearn gets a pass while Rapido gets called out for the same exact thing.
Trainman440,The Rapido PA's are not, repeat not, cancelled. The Rapido undecorated PA's have been cancelled due to a lack of pre-orders. The remainder of the Rapido PA's will be made as planned.
My latest reply to this post disappeared.
It was there, now it is gone.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Paul3 Sheldon,As you know, the market has changed. Before, it was acceptable for Athearn to slap NH paint on an SDP40F, or make one road number for half a century. It was popular to create home roads because getting prototype models was either expensive, time consuming or both. Times have changed, and now it's much easier to make the prototype railroad you want vs. creating a home road because you can't model a prototype correctly.Part of the issue of making "one size fits all" for undec. models is sometimes due to the box they come in, as in all the details can't possible all fit. I wouldn't think it's an issue with the F30 flats, but I don't know how they're gonna be shipped. Maybe it was just easier to do three undec.'s?BTW, one nice thing with these Rapido flats is that the car chassis will be diecast metal and so is the deck. The deck will be removable in case you want a real wood deck, but you'll lose a bunch of car weight if you do. I have some of the diecast Model Power "Metal Train" 50' flats, and it's so nice to have a flat car that's the right weight.
Sheldon,As you know, the market has changed. Before, it was acceptable for Athearn to slap NH paint on an SDP40F, or make one road number for half a century. It was popular to create home roads because getting prototype models was either expensive, time consuming or both. Times have changed, and now it's much easier to make the prototype railroad you want vs. creating a home road because you can't model a prototype correctly.Part of the issue of making "one size fits all" for undec. models is sometimes due to the box they come in, as in all the details can't possible all fit. I wouldn't think it's an issue with the F30 flats, but I don't know how they're gonna be shipped. Maybe it was just easier to do three undec.'s?BTW, one nice thing with these Rapido flats is that the car chassis will be diecast metal and so is the deck. The deck will be removable in case you want a real wood deck, but you'll lose a bunch of car weight if you do. I have some of the diecast Model Power "Metal Train" 50' flats, and it's so nice to have a flat car that's the right weight.
Paul, you say the same thing every time this topic comes up. That is not why I choose to freelance, not 30 years ago and not today. The irony in that is that if I wanted to model the B&O accurately today, I would not be much closer to an accurate loco or passenger car roster than I could have gotten to 30 years ago.
Today we can't get many "average" correct (or even close) steam locos made in any roadname, in my opinion your "accuracy" argument does not hold water.
People talented enough to paint letter freelance stuff 30 or 40 years ago were talented enough to kitbash and detail models to be more accurate. And many of them did it. Champ and Walthers made decals for most everything.
These flat cars are beautiful, but they reflect only the smallest percentage of early piggyback prototypes, and virtually no other cars this accurate have been made of any other early piggyback flats ( except SP).
Accurate high detail modeling is still hard to do in my chosen era. But I stopped counting rivets years ago.
I'm going to order a few of these, because variety is a good thing modeling early piggyback. But that fleet is nearly full and not getting replaced.
I think the market has changed in this way - more modelers have embraced RTR equipment and turned to layout building as their primary "craftsman" skill in the hobby.
And, if freelancing it out, it has as much to do with prototype information being more available as it does accurate models.
Paul3 dti406,I think there's a real bias against Rapido in certain corners. They don't like that he's not serious enough, that they make silly videos, that Jason is "snarky", that he boasts about how good his models are vs. his competition, that he defends making his models in China, etc. So whenever they do make mistakes (which all companies do), or whenever they do something perceived as negative (like stop making undec.'s), they get all the vitriol. So Athearn gets a pass while Rapido gets called out for the same exact thing.
dti406,I think there's a real bias against Rapido in certain corners. They don't like that he's not serious enough, that they make silly videos, that Jason is "snarky", that he boasts about how good his models are vs. his competition, that he defends making his models in China, etc. So whenever they do make mistakes (which all companies do), or whenever they do something perceived as negative (like stop making undec.'s), they get all the vitriol. So Athearn gets a pass while Rapido gets called out for the same exact thing.
I like Rapido, I just can't find much in their line to buy. And, admittedly, some of it I would simply not spend the money for, like the RDC's.
But they teased me with the PA's, I pulled the trigger, and they backed out......
Also admittedly, I'm a "big picture" modeler, not a rivet counter any more, so trading in all my BlueBox Athearn stuff for $50 a piece freight cars is just not happening.
But I do buy a few $50 freight cars, and mixed in with my dressed up older stuff, they all look great at 50 smph in my 35-50 car trains.
The layout operating scheme needs 1,000 freight cars. I'm not starting over at $50 a pop after 50 years of model building.
Have you taken a glance at my track plan?
Sheldon
PS - remember I am not just a freelancer, I model the B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND, and I do it as accurately as is practical given the shared time and resources of the total layout project - that may not be accurate enough for some, but more than accurate enough for others - your mileage may vary.
Actually, as of late, it appears on certain other forums that seemingly anything other than Scale Trains or Tangent products is just somehow "not good enough". I would not say Rapido is alone in receiving too much venom, but more the case of them being the latest manufacturer to the party.
Some people don't like Athearn at all, anything they do. Others think Atlas is in the dark ages and have nothing good to say about them. MTH and BLI are disliked by seemingly many in HO...Rapido is just new to that party.
Scale Trains still apparently can do no wrong, as of yet. Just wait...
No manufacturer is perfect. Are some of us trying to cancel train manufacturers?
A manufacturer has to make tough decisions about whom their products are targeted to, what age or experience level of modeler. Nobody can please all the different groups.
John
Sheldon-
I'm not here to judge or critique the Proto 2000 Alco PA. Perhaps are you getting a bit too defensive? What you run on your railroad is your business.
I actually owned a Proto 2000 PA-1 for awhile just a couple years ago, and I'm finding out based upon recent Ebay finds that Atlas Master or Classic series units produced 10 to 20 years ago hold their own in performance on the layout quite well with anything else due to the motors and drivetrains that are in those old Atlas units.
I have some Genesis units, a couple latest versions of Bowser units, and some of those old Atlas units on the layout now. The old Atlas motor from back then seems to compare well with the latest Bowser motors; with the weight in the big Alco units, the Bowsers can really pull. The Genesis units, smaller in size (I have mostly GP7's) pull less, but (my son's) big Genesis 2.0 SD90MAC-H's pull like crazy just about everything we can put behind them.
I do not have any Walthers, Bachmann, Intermountain or Rapido diesel units at this time.
PRR8259 Actually, as of late, it appears on certain other forums that seemingly anything other than Scale Trains or Tangent products is just somehow "not good enough". I would not say Rapido is alone in receiving too much venom, but more the case of them being the latest manufacturer to the party. Some people don't like Athearn at all, anything they do. Others think Atlas is in the dark ages and have nothing good to say about them. MTH and BLI are disliked by seemingly many in HO...Rapido is just new to that party. Scale Trains still apparently can do no wrong, as of yet. Just wait... No manufacturer is perfect. Are some of us trying to cancel train manufacturers? A manufacturer has to make tough decisions about whom their products are targeted to, what age or experience level of modeler. Nobody can please all the different groups. John
Those two companies don't make enough stuff to even count them as important yet.
MTH HO is DOA for most people I know.
I still buy Athearn, Walthers, Atlas, Bachmann, Intermountain, etc, etc, etc.
Rapido is top notch, but their selection is just starting to hit a "uesable" stride......
As for the rivet counting brand snobs, they are not going to be welcome at my operating sessions. Too many Athearn and Varney metal cars from 1954, Athearn Blue Box and Ready to Roll from all era's, and too many "sub standard" Bachmann and Proto locomotives, all without sound or brains.
PRR8259 Sheldon- I'm not here to judge or critique the Proto 2000 Alco PA. Perhaps are you getting a bit too defensive? What you run on your railroad is your business. I actually owned a Proto 2000 PA-1 for awhile just a couple years ago, and I'm finding out based upon recent Ebay finds that Atlas Master or Classic series units produced 10 to 20 years ago hold their own in performance on the layout quite well with anything else due to the motors and drivetrains that are in those old Atlas units. I have some Genesis units, a couple latest versions of Bowser units, and some of those old Atlas units on the layout now. The old Atlas motor from back then seems to compare well with the latest Bowser motors; with the weight in the big Alco units, the Bowsers can really pull. The Genesis units, smaller in size (I have mostly GP7's) pull less, but (my son's) big Genesis 2.0 SD90MAC-H's pull like crazy just about everything we can put behind them. I do not have any Walthers, Bachmann, Intermountain or Rapido diesel units at this time. John
John, I'm not being defensive, I'm just saying they are accurate and detailed enough for me, and they run good. It's Rapidos loss - or not.
Atlas has always made great locos - I don't have any because their coverage of my era is not as good as older LifeLike Proto2000, which again I am very happy with.
More later,
On the subject of HO Scale Alco PAs I am looking forward to seeing Rapidos verisons come out soon, as I am sort of interested in them, as that front nose is just spectatular and bold looking. Being that I am facinated by demonstrator unit locomotives I saw the A/B set of the orange General Motors demonstrator units version in HO that was made by Life-Like Trains in their Proto2000, was for sale on a model railroad sales page on facebook for $150.It was a good price go I went for it. Don't know if Rapido will do this livery in the next run to compare that to the Proto2000, but I look forward to the first run a coming this year.
PRR8259 Actually, as of late, it appears on certain other forums that seemingly anything other than Scale Trains or Tangent products is just somehow "not good enough". I would not say Rapido is alone in receiving too much venom, but more the case of them being the latest manufacturer to the party.
trainnut1250 Jason wrote a recent article in RMC explaining how he runs his business and detailing the reasons behind the dreaded preorder and how they decide what to make and in what quantities. Nothing we haven't heard forum members speculate about in the past but it is nice to get it from the source. Guy
Jason wrote a recent article in RMC explaining how he runs his business and detailing the reasons behind the dreaded preorder and how they decide what to make and in what quantities. Nothing we haven't heard forum members speculate about in the past but it is nice to get it from the source.
Guy
Not MRC. RMC. Railroad Model Craftsman.
MRC is Model Rectifier Corporation.
maxman Not MRC. RMC. Railroad Model Craftsman. MRC is Model Rectifier Corporation.
Engi1487 PRR8259 Actually, as of late, it appears on certain other forums that seemingly anything other than Scale Trains or Tangent products is just somehow "not good enough". I would not say Rapido is alone in receiving too much venom, but more the case of them being the latest manufacturer to the party. Hello JohnIf you can link me to these arguments where forum members are arguing that ScaleTrains & Tangent Model railroad products are not good enough, as I would like to read them. Both companies products are good enough and rightfully so, as they fit in the most modelled areas of railroading in North American railroading, are well detailed, tooled, moulded, sound good and I cant complain with that.While no model railroading hobby manufactuer is perfect, they are doing well by strivng to better their products and impact on the hobby, despite their customers arguing their opinons on related internet forums.The fact they continue to be in buisness and keep doing so everyday regardless of whats going on, makes me happy.
Hello JohnIf you can link me to these arguments where forum members are arguing that ScaleTrains & Tangent Model railroad products are not good enough, as I would like to read them. Both companies products are good enough and rightfully so, as they fit in the most modelled areas of railroading in North American railroading, are well detailed, tooled, moulded, sound good and I cant complain with that.While no model railroading hobby manufactuer is perfect, they are doing well by strivng to better their products and impact on the hobby, despite their customers arguing their opinons on related internet forums.The fact they continue to be in buisness and keep doing so everyday regardless of whats going on, makes me happy.
You misread what John wrote, read it again CAREFULLY.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL ... ... then they changed their mind do to not enough orders. ... Sheldon
...
... then they changed their mind do to not enough orders.
If you were in business, and you came to understand that your business model was defective, what would you do....in order to keep it viable, to retain trusted and skilled talent, and to ensure that the bulk of the orders already made could be filled? I know what I would do.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Engi1487 PRR8259 Actually, as of late, it appears on certain other forums that seemingly anything other than Scale Trains or Tangent products is just somehow "not good enough". I would not say Rapido is alone in receiving too much venom, but more the case of them being the latest manufacturer to the party. Hello JohnIf you can link me to these arguments where forum members are arguing that ScaleTrains & Tangent Model railroad products are not good enough, as I would like to read them. Both companies products are good enough and rightfully so, as they fit in the most modelled areas of railroading in North American railroading, are well detailed, tooled, moulded, sound good and I cant complain with that.While no model railroading hobby manufactuer is perfect, they are doing well by strivng to better their products and impact on the hobby, despite their customers arguing their opinons on related internet forums.The fact they continue to be in buisness and keep doing so everyday regardless of whats going on, makes me happy. You misread what John wrote, read it again CAREFULLY. Sheldon
selector ATLANTIC CENTRAL ... ... then they changed their mind do to not enough orders. ... Sheldon If you were in business, and you came to understand that your business model was defective, what would you do....in order to keep it viable, to retain trusted and skilled talent, and to ensure that the bulk of the orders already made could be filled? I know what I would do.
Maybe a company should make a large and plan disclaimer that production is subject to adequate preorders? Maybe they did and I missed it?
I'm just pointing out what I would spend my money on, and what I won't.
What I'm not spending my money on is even one of the six different Big Boy's, or the three or four PRR K4's, or a bunch of stuff that has been done over and over.
Selector, I've been around this hobby for 50 years, worked in it for 10 years, I've met the owners of companies, I've known many of the shop owners in this region over that time, I managed a train department in a hobby shop.
I get it. That does not mean as a consumer I have to roll over and like it.
It is ME who keeps pointing out the insurmountable task these manufacturers face in deciding what to make because as history moves forward there are more choices and less customers for each choice.
I'm just pointing out that I chose to buy a couple pieces of 25 year old NOS rather than change what I wanted.
You are a casual modeler, and that's fine. I'm a "protolance" modeler and that is fine. What drives YOUR choices is nothing like what drives mine.
You talk about companies making money, yet Rapido has yet to pry a dollar out of my pocket?
140 locos, 1000 freight cars, 170 passengers cars - Bachmann, Athearn, LifeLike, Walthers, Intermountain, Bowser, ConCor, Accurail, Fox Valley, Kadee, Spring Mills Depot, and even BLI have managed to get some of my money.
I'm trying to help the guy out and buy something........now I will order some flat cars..........
Sheldon,I wasn't talking about you, specifically, but certainly many home roads of the past were created due to the lack of available prototypical models. Tony Koester comes to mind. He stated that he created the Allegheny Midland because he couldn't do what he really wanted: modeling the NKP. Why? He said because he couldn't afford a fleet of brass NKP Berks. Now with the plastic versions of NKP Berks available, he can and now he does; the AM is no more.As for steam modeling, there's plenty of "average" steam locos available, depending on what you call average (and whether or not you can buy brass). It's not all Big Boys and steamliners.Yes, many were able to kitbash and detail models (like many do today), but it's a little different when you want a normal Pacific and all you can get are PRR K.4.s models with Belpaire fireboxes. BTW, the early 1950s were already seeing a big shift from twin vans per flat to single vans per flat (like the Rapido model). The NH (the No. 1 US TOFC railroad from 1937-1953) used 50' flats with twin vans at the start. In 1948, they converted to 54' flats with twin vans. From 1951 to 1954, the NH was buying 40' flats for single vans, and the 54' flats were converted to single vans in 1952. So mixing single and twin TOFC's is an early 1950s thing to do.I concur that folks are spending more time building layouts/scenery vs. building locos/cars today, but I would also suggest that operations is more of a thing now than it was. I also have a large fleet of Athearn BB's (just 300 or so) that I had on my layout. I, too, am not in the mood the sell them any time soon. I appreciate high end freight car models, but to me all freight cars (with rare exceptions) are only a means to an end for operations. They are, to me, mostly background actors on my model railroading stage where the starring actors are locos and supporting actors are passenger cars and cabooses. They tell the story; freight cars are just kinda there (again, with rare exceptions).Yes, I just checked your layout plan out after this reminder. Very impressive, Sheldon. Well done design from what I see. John,For quite a long time on the 'net, there was a lot of Athearn bashing. That seems to have faded away in the past few years.With Rapido's case, they could withdraw into a shell like so many other manufacturers have done. Instead, they put themselves out there, for better or worse. You have to take the bad with the good, especially online.
Engi1487 trainnut1250 Jason wrote a recent article in RMC explaining how he runs his business and detailing the reasons behind the dreaded preorder and how they decide what to make and in what quantities. Nothing we haven't heard forum members speculate about in the past but it is nice to get it from the source. Guy What model railroad magazine is "MRC," What issue and month also might I ask?
What model railroad magazine is "MRC," What issue and month also might I ask?
The article is in the January 2021 issue - page 90.
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Paul3 BTW, the early 1950s were already seeing a big shift from twin vans per flat to single vans per flat (like the Rapido model). The NH (the No. 1 US TOFC railroad from 1937-1953) used 50' flats with twin vans at the start. In 1948, they converted to 54' flats with twin vans. From 1951 to 1954, the NH was buying 40' flats for single vans, and the 54' flats were converted to single vans in 1952. So mixing single and twin TOFC's is an early 1950s thing to do.
BTW, the early 1950s were already seeing a big shift from twin vans per flat to single vans per flat (like the Rapido model). The NH (the No. 1 US TOFC railroad from 1937-1953) used 50' flats with twin vans at the start. In 1948, they converted to 54' flats with twin vans. From 1951 to 1954, the NH was buying 40' flats for single vans, and the 54' flats were converted to single vans in 1952. So mixing single and twin TOFC's is an early 1950s thing to do.
Not sure what brought this up but very much agreed. A large percentage of my fleet is single 32' or 35' vans on 40' or 50' flats, along with lots of the 26' vans as well.
And I have an appropriate number of Walthers F39 flats as well.
Until hitches started to appear on the first few cars late in '53, 54' cars did either two 26' vans or a single van interchangeably since vans were jacked at the fifth wheel and chained down.
Has any manufacturer done a 40' piggyback flat since the 60's? No. All mine are kit bashes and a few reworks of old Ulrich cars. The NH and the B&O had big fleets of 40' piggyback flats.
Paul3 Yes, I just checked your layout plan out after this reminder. Very impressive, Sheldon. Well done design from what I see.
Yes, I just checked your layout plan out after this reminder. Very impressive, Sheldon. Well done design from what I see.
Thank you for the kind words.
Rapido make excellent models - confined space means that my hidden track curves are too tight to use them, but I wonder if n scalers need quite so much detail beneath a passenger car? A subjective judgement I guess and I can get away with the Kato also excellent products - how do other Model 'Railroaders', as apposed to 'collectors,' feel?
Antonio,
Please check your PMs!!!!!!!!! I have an RDC ready to ship to you.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Heck, the enthusiasm for the hobby shown by Jason and the people at Rapido, and the silly product videos (doesn't hurt they are Star Trek and Dr Who fans) make me want to buy something, if I can fit it in my layout. The PRR box cars and flats fit era wise, and even what was essentially a competitor like Reading would see a few running through. But I really need something other than PRR, can't build up a fleet for a Reading layout with all PRR cars.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Paul3 John,For quite a long time on the 'net, there was a lot of Athearn bashing. That seems to have faded away in the past few years.With Rapido's case, they could withdraw into a shell like so many other manufacturers have done. Instead, they put themselves out there, for better or worse. You have to take the bad with the good, especially online.
John,For quite a long time on the 'net, there was a lot of Athearn bashing. That seems to have faded away in the past few years.With Rapido's case, they could withdraw into a shell like so many other manufacturers have done. Instead, they put themselves out there, for better or worse. You have to take the bad with the good, especially online.
Hello Paul--
I would agree with your comments.
I would like to add:
As someone who actually worked for a model train manufacturer, I have an understanding of what actually goes on when a new model is being developed. I take strong exception when others (clearly not you so this is not directed at you or Sheldon) bash the manufacturers--pretty much any manufacturer, and not at all limited to the one that once employed me.
In the past I have made a simple post about liking a new diesel, and posted a few pictures, and stated how happy I was with that new diesel, only to have the members of another forum rip it absolutely to shreds, and literally remove all joy of ownership in that model for me (yes I actually sold it after the horrible degenerative discussion that ensued). I was accused of being a paid shill, blah blah blah. The mistakes were relatively small, and easily fixable. The manufacturer voluntarily issued (free of charge) replacement parts to correct ALL the deficiencies, and all subsequent runs were modified to include the revised parts.
I have watched as others (people and manufacturers) have received the exact same treatment every time there is a little mistake. Not everything can be economically modeled. Usually there is money for only so many versions or variations to be modeled. ALCO = more than average model variations. Not everybody works for a manufacturer or is a paid shill. (I never heard the word shill in my life outside of a couple train forums).
I agree it is unfortunate that some manufacturers including Rapido have advertised the accuracy of a model, and then been flamed for a small compromise that was made for the sake of economics and perhaps even common sense, a compromise most people might not even notice (stepwells on an engine that were unique to only one original purchaser).
Bottom line I'm not perfect and neither are the manufacturers. I now try to actually go out of my way not to ever mention the name of the one manufacturer I once worked for, last 29 years ago. Just mentioning the name has ticked people off and resulted in negative phone calls made to that manufacturer, so they actually prefer I don't ever say anything online anywhere.
I'm 52 now; and it seems that there are more crazies in this hobby, lurking online, than I ever imagined possible. Even a simple well-intended comment can have negative blowback where my (lifelong) friends receive negative phone calls about their products.
It's a shame it has to be that way now.
I'm also learning to try not to be too pointed in my criticism of the things that go wrong with products.
A few more thoughts:
I know I'm stuck in the past, but I started this thread because it amazed me that B&O and C&O would not be obvious choices to offer in E8's. Again, as a system they owned 10% of the darn things.
I think most all these manufacturers do a great job. I almost feel bad that I have not been able to find much I need from Rapido.
There are a few manufacturers who I feel have philosophical views on the hobby I do not agree with. I feel they have tried to "steer" the hobby rather than respond to the market. None of those brands are really part of this discussion today.
I understand the shifts in the hobby, some of them I consider to be very good. Others are neither bad or good, just different.
I don't know everything about trains......but I know a lot. I can count rivets with the best of them.
But that is not fun for me.
I can tell you what is right, and what is wrong, with nearly all the models I own. And I can tell you which ones are just generic fiction. It does not bother me one bit.
They are models, they are "representitive". Closer is better in many cases, but in other cases it just does not matter that much if they "look" right.
I know not everyone feels that way, and that's ok, it's a hobby.
Jason's products are outstanding, but I already have a bunch of trains. I'm not replacing them even if Jason or someone else makes "perfect" models of everything I have. I considered them all acceptable when I purchased them, they are still acceptable.
I don't keep changing my goals, standards or expectations in this hobby just because a few things get better or because technology changes. I do buy some of those better things when they fit into the want/need list. I imbrace some new technology, some I can do without.
I am about to build a new layout, which will imbrace as much as possible a wide view of the hobby and prototype trains as they existed in 1954.
Hopefully Jason's new flat cars, and more will be a pert of that.
PRR8259 In the past I have made a simple post about liking a new diesel, and posted a few pictures, and stated how happy I was with that new diesel, only to have the members of another forum rip it absolutely to shreds, and literally remove all joy of ownership in that model for me (yes I actually sold it after the horrible degenerative discussion that ensued). I was accused of being a paid shill, blah blah blah. The mistakes were relatively small, and easily fixable. The manufacturer voluntarily issued (free of charge) replacement parts to correct ALL the deficiencies, and all subsequent runs were modified to include the revised parts. I have watched as others (people and manufacturers) have received the exact same treatment every time there is a little mistake. Not everything can be economically modeled. Usually there is money for only so many versions or variations to be modeled. ALCO = more than average model variations. Not everybody works for a manufacturer or is a paid shill. (I never heard the word shill in my life outside of a couple train forums). I agree it is unfortunate that some manufacturers including Rapido have advertised the accuracy of a model, and then been flamed for a small compromise that was made for the sake of economics and perhaps even common sense, a compromise most people might not even notice (stepwells on an engine that were unique to only one original purchaser). John
I too read comments that just trash a product. Now, pointing out that the locomotive had different step wells than the rest, making the model slightly inaccurate is knowledge that should not be shied away from.
But the context of it being the result of a deliberate decision made given the restrictions of production realities should be mentioned also.
Instead, what I often read, is that these interent critics display a tone as if the producer doesn't know that there is an error, or is trying to fool the consumer.
Which effectively creates the impression that they know more about the loco than the paid professional expert knows, which is the entire point of them getting on a forum in the first place and pointing out with the tone they used.
- Douglas
Hi Douglas--
Agreed. Which is why I have attempted to defend the manufacturer (Rapido in this case) on some other forums.
I understand that the business side has to sell enough units to make profit and that if profit is made, we all get even more models and everybody wins in the end.
Unfortunately, there is another side to that argument who only wants to rip on Rapido, while holding others like newcomer ScaleTrains up as though they can do absolutely no wrong whatsoever...and some of them clearly want to cancel Athearn from even existing as a manufacturer and take glee that some people were hired away...which is sad. My few Genesis units are among the smoothest running and best looking units of any that I have.
Now hopefully back to topic of new passenger diesels.
The hobby really comprises a dance between 'the market' and the importers. For the hobby to flourish, it must have a dynamic set of forces that keep the hobby moving forward. The importers have to learn what the market wants, what it will tolerate in the way of deviation from the ideal, and then offer a product whose subscription will make it possible to go on offering other models for sale. We, the Great Unwashed, have a duty to represent our own druthers, and to put pressure on the importers to place before us something we're willing to pay for.
This means feedback. Discussions here are good, often fruitful, but communicating with the importers is more direct and will probably leave an impression on them if they get a lot of similar sentiment expressed to them. Rapido seems to be quite responsive that way, but in the end, they provide almost the best non-brass HO models currently BECAUSE they have the good sense to be profitable AND make the greatest numbers of prospective buyers happy.
I have yet to let the opinions of others sway me away from models that appeal to me for any reason. Mechanical problems, yeah, of course, but comments like 'foobie', and incorrect visor...yeah, whatever. It's a PA!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL A few more thoughts: I know I'm stuck in the past, but I started this thread because it amazed me that B&O and C&O would not be obvious choices to offer in E8's. Again, as a system they owned 10% of the darn things.
They have said that new roadnames will come out in future runs.
An "expensive model collector"