I think it is partly a generational thing. As entire eras of modelers leave the hobby for whatever reason (death being just one of them), stuff from each era gets more or less dumped onto the used market. That's how, when I first got into HO, I had a bunch of paper sided freight cars from 20 and more years earlier, and some "first generation" metal Mantua steamers. Over time this stuff gets thinned out as more of it gets tossed rather than resold.
Also, when Athearn walked away from the Blue Box line there was so much of it out there -- new and unsold on hobby shop shelves, new and unbuilt on modeler railroader's shelves -- not only did prices remain cheap (because the stuff had been cheap when new) but the selection was nearly as broad as it always had been. There was a glut. That glut has been chipped away at now. And DCC played a role in the glut as well.
A third factor is access to swap meets, train shows, and hobby shops with shelves of "previously enjoyed" model trains. Go to enough of those and even if you are uninterested in the stuff you get a pretty clear notion about what the going rate is or can be for stuff. But many of our colleagues on this Forum say there are no swap meets, train shows, or train stores where they are. Who's to say what's cheap or too expensive in that situation.
I do know that a buddy who is very adept at and familiar with Ebay is often asked to help sell off estate collections in return for a % of the take. Even after all these years he is amazed at the results -- whether really nice stuff selling for low prices, or broken and damaged stuff he was willing to nearly give away creating a bidding war and selling for way too much money. Auctions whether live or online create their own psychology.
Dave Nelson
PM Railfan .... oh [symbols removed by moderator] YEAH it has!
.... oh [symbols removed by moderator] YEAH it has!
At first, i thought this was because since when did Warner Brothers themed charactors for bad words become bad words themselves so much so someone had to spray paint over them.
Then I thought, wait a minute, this makes it look worse, like i said something really bad. Gee thanks, it meant less my way. Have to rethink my next Ka-Boom! or Ka-Blam! before i just whip them out there!
I promise i will be more Eeyore than Yosemite Sam from now on.
PMR
A lot of stuff is much cheaper now. Prices of kits has gone way down, brass is way down, some RTR cars vare way up. So it really depends on the item. I have never been able to buy FSM kits for the prices I can pay everyday for. I see a lot of people confuse what is being offered and sold prices. Also there are those that will pay too much or get a steal.
Thanks all for the replies!
Shock Control)
In partial answer to your question, just last night (1/9/2021 - HNY! btw) i took a screenshot of a 'sale' off of one of the 'interbays' of a standard no frills Tyco Ho Train set that is definately of 'Vintage' designation - just because of its price.
To put it in a dollar amount - instead of the IRS sending out those $1200 checks, they could have sent you a 40yr old used train set instead.
I wont explain WHY the price increased, I only answer your question, has it?
Green Lights!
I started working in a hobby shop in 1970, when many of the products in question here were still on the "new" market, and some others were not considered that old.
Today it really depends on your interests and modeling style. I have lots of "vintage" HO, and there is a lot of it I would not have on my layout.
I'm selective, I don't "collect" it or maintain its original appearance or condition. I will weather an Athearn metal kit from the 50's just as fast as sometihng made last week.
And I do upgrades and add additional details to many of the older models I find acceptable.
Many I have owned for a long time, others I have aquired along the way, mostly at shows or a few shops I know that deal in that sort of stuff.
I have posted pictures on here of unbuilt 50's and 60's kits that I have. They will be built to my requirements, again with no concern for their "history".
I find prices to be all over the map, and I am someone likely to pay as little more for the more "perfect" pieces.
You will not find me even slowing down for the soda carton full of unboxed freight cars at the train show. If it has been handled/treated like that, I don't want it.
I'm looking for those "practically untouched" pieces, still in their original boxes. Not becuase of any "collector value", just becuase I want stuff in good condition, not messed around with......
So, I pay more, for the best of the best of what was out there in 1950, or 1960, or 1970.
And it runs right along side my brand new RTR this or that, or the resin kits I build, or the high detail kits like Proto, Branchline and Intermountain and the present day "Athearn blue box" grade products. Because not every piece of rolling stock needs to be a museum piece, they just need to be reasonably representitive.
Prices - supply, demand, opportunity and desire to be rid, are always the controling factors.
Sheldon
Inflation is one part of it. Some of these sellers need to make more per item than they used to for it to be worth their time to sell it. Individuals getting rid of a personal collection might still have some freight cars and items in the $3 to $5 range, but anyone doing this as a business can't afford to go too cheap anymore.
A lot of these things that used to be cheap are also becoming more scarce with time, and that also drives prices up. Keep looking around though, and you can still find some very good deals!
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Very interesting points.
Regarding scale models, at least, the definition for the term "Vintage" is age 40 and over. So basically 1970's and before.
I lurk on ebay and I have seen some vintage and slightly newer items increase slightly in opening bid prices, including the 1950's-60's era kits. But not by much. I remember seeing some of the older common Athearn BB and Roundhouse freight cars selling in the $3.00 to $8.00 range. Now I see them in the $12 to $15 range, in good condition. Imho, adjusting for inflation and demand that's still not bad. Of course, the kicker comes in with shipping in the $8 to $15 range.
For vintage structures, Tyco and Bachmann kits are still available in the "teens" price range. Amzaingly, some of those old structures are excellent starters for detailing and weathering to realistic levels, without having to empty a wallet.
Respectfully, when an item like a 1960's (shortt) Athearn "rubber band" drive RDC opens at $50, my jaw does drop open because Proto 1000 RDC's, which are more accurate and equipped with a heavier chasiss and much better drive, can be found in that same price range on ebay and at MRR flea markets. I passed one up for $35 that I had considered re-painting(metalizing) to a fictional road name.
But, overall, it's the old adage of doing your homework while shopping. Decent deals are still available but you have to be willing to spend the additional time hunting for them. I admit that when it comes to passenger cars, I'll spend a while hunting for Rivs and Walthers units that I'll plan to strip and repaint. My simple approach is to hunt for the type of car I want that's in the least popular paint scheme as it will usually have a low starting bid.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
There was time I could buy low end (Athearn, Mantua, and the like) HO freight cars for $3 apiece at train shows. Not any more. They are asking at least $5 and a lot of times $10. And we are talking about kitbash "project" cars. Like needing a paint job, decals, some brake rigging underneath, some wire grabs, a load, Kadee couplers, whatever. I buy them 'cause I like doing kitbash projects, not that I think I am saving money.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
mbinsewiBy vintage, I suppose you mean stuff like old freight car kits? Wooded building kits? etc.
Yes, but even things like 1950s yellow-box Athearns, with sprung trucks, and older Mantua Tyco, when they had metal frames, before they became the cheap glossy plastic toys associated with later Tyco. I could find these in excellent shape at one time for $3 a throw, but they became much more expensive in recent years, at least at the shows I've attended. Granted, there are always bargains, but these seem to be fewer and farther between in my experience.
selectorI'm not in that market, but I do see more inquiries here and on other boards about the older products. I would guess that, during the latest 'upset', people who suddenly find they have a lot of time on their hands, and who wax nostalgic, want to get their hands on things that brought them pleasure in less heady times. That would raise the prices.
Well, there's that, but I was seeing this trend over about 12 or 15 years, pre-pandemic.
Could also be a function of supply and demand. As time passes; vintage in good shape becomes rarer, and thus, more expensive.
By vintage, I suppose you mean stuff like old freight car kits? Wooded building kits? etc.
I'm not in that market either, never have been.
I think Selector nailed it.
Mike.
My You Tube
I'm not in that market, but I do see more inquiries here and on other boards about the older products. I would guess that, during the latest 'upset', people who suddenly find they have a lot of time on their hands, and who wax nostalgic, want to get their hands on things that brought them pleasure in less heady times. That would raise the prices.
While I can still occasionally find bargains on the InterBays, I noticed prices inching up at trains shows each year between roughly 2005 and 2019. I used to be able to find vintage cars in excellent shape for very cheap. In more recent years at train shows, I have been buying fewer things, but spending more per piece.
I don't know if this is a reflection of prices increasing, or simply that as I've accumulated more, the things I still don't have are pricey.
What is your experience?