Hello,
I'm wondering what kits would be best for me at this point. I've mastered the Accurail kits, but I'm looking to improve my skills.
Any era is fine, but price must be decent.
Hi,
They're a little bit of a jump in skill level but I've always enjoyed building the extensive line of Proto 2000 from Life-Like car kits. These were made roughly 15-20 years ago but are attractive models by today's standards.
You have to be careful with snipping the grab irons off the sprue but they build into excellent looking rolling stock.
Chinese Red CB&Q by Edmund, on Flickr
IMG_0110_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
The hopper cars are a little tricky with their numerous, wire, corner grab irons. Generally it helps to clean out holes with a #79 drill.
LL_hopper4 by Edmund, on Flickr
(Yes, the W was missing! I fixed it with a decal, though)
L-L produced tons of these things and many can be found on the secondary market in the $15-20 range.
Intermountain is another manufacturer with a good line of HO kits:
IMG_9780_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
Anything by Red Caboose or Intermountain are similar to the Life-Like Proto-2000 kits Ed mentioned. Just avoid the Intermountain Caswell Gondola kit. It is a booger to put together.
If you run into difficulty, post a question in here, and someone will help.
After a few of these, build a Tichy kit, then move on to resin kits!
Quit when it stops being fun.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
After Accurail I would go in the following order
Once you can put together a few Proto 2000 and/or "Blueprint" kits, you'll be ready for craftsman-like kits like Funaro & Camerlengo or Westerfield.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Pennsy_I1I'm wondering what kits would be best for me at this point. I've mastered the Accurail kits, but I'm looking to improve my skills. Any era is fine, but price must be decent.
Hi Pennsy_l1,
I will agree that the Proto 2000 kits are a good place to start to up your kit building skills. Some of the parts are pretty delicate (the kits provide extras because you will break one or two), and as was said, you are best to drill out the mounting holes so that the grabs etc. go in easily.
However, the Proto 2000 kits also provide a great opportunity to learn how to make your own hand rails, steps and grab irons. Working with the extremely delicate grab irons that come with the kits can be very frustrating. The alternative is to make your own grabs out of wire. I recommend 0.0125" phosphor bronze wire from Tichy Train Group. It is sized to match the roughly 1" diameter prototypical grab irons, it is easy to bend and it is solid enough to withstand any handling, which the supplied plastic grabs may not.
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_wire/Default.aspx
You will need a set of small pliers with different jaws, something like these:
https://www.micromark.com/mini-hand-tools/pliers-nippers-cutters
You can make styrene jigs to allow you to produce evenly matched grabs and steps. It does take a little practice.
Maybe doctorwayne will chime in to show you some of his work. If he does, try not to be too intimidated. He is pretty good at what he does.
In addition to the other manufacturers that have been mentioned, Atlas Trainman kits are pretty good but they are a bit rare. Also, Walthers older kits in the white boxes with blue stripes are nice too.
Something that I have gotten into which I really enjoy is finding old kits from the 50s and 60s. Most of the kits on the market today have already been assembled (with varying degrees of skill I might add) but it is fun to fix them up. If you can find old kits that are unassembled at a fair price, they can be a lot of fun too.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Pennsy_I1 ...I'm looking to improve my skills.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Pennsy_I1 ...I'm looking to improve my skills. Gidday, Ok, all very good advice so far but depending on what skills you’re actually wishing to improve, I’m going to put it out there that an Athearn blue box freight car kit is a great step. Unless you can get an undecorated kit, you can learn how to paint strip, to remove cast on moulding, to thin roof walks, to make your own grab irons and steps, to drill # 79 holes (preferably with out breaking them, a problem that the Bear has ) to paint, to apply decals, and best of all, if things turn to custard, the kit was cheap! Cheers, the Bear.
Eventually I'll have to scratchbuild (notably steam locos, as I have a VERY hard time finding PRR steamers for a reasonable price), so all those would probably be very useful. Also, what's a good way to learn to repair motors?
Also, do hardware stores sell the kinds of drills and bits that I need?
Pennsy_I1Also, what's a good way to learn to repair motors?
Hi again Pennsy_l1,
What type of motors exactly? If you are talking about older locomotives with Pitman style open frame motors you have two options. One is to replace the magnets which is fairly easy and inexpensive to do, and the other is to simply replace the motor with a more efficient can motor, which also is fairly cheap to do in most cases.
Here is a thread on how to replace the magnets:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/244634/2725871.aspx
I will leave it to others to explain how to install a new can motor since I have never done it.
It might be helpful if you could tell us exactly which locomotives you are working with.
Pennsy_I1 ...I'll have to scratchbuild (notably steam locos...
Pennsy_I1Eventually I'll have to scratchbuild (notably steam locos, as I have a VERY hard time finding PRR steamers for a reasonable price)
You might not need to. The over-abundance of PENNSYLVANIA brass steam locomotives has caused the prices for these to come way down.
It might not be too much longer before they hit your "resonable" price point.
My STRATTON AND GILLETTE steam locomotives are all USRA designs in brass by Sunset, Key, Alco, and Tenshodo. The price came down to about $200.00 for each, and I became a consumer. I have about a dozen now, and it has worked out well for me.
Years ago I gave my model railroad friend a Proto 2000 box car kit as a holiday gift. About a month later, he gave it back to me and said "Thanks for the thought but there is no way I am even going to attempt to build that". It is still sitting on the shelf in my train building as a retirement project.
Tichy is the way to go. They make kits that are used by others for their RTR cars. They made Ertl's cars and still make some of Intermountain and a bunch of others, sometimes parts or sometimes the whole car.
rrebellTichy is the way to go.
I would suggest Tichy after a few Intermountain, Red Caboose, or Proto-2000 kits.
Tichy kits require drilling and brake rigging. The instructions are never fully clear on how the brake system components should be installed. Assembling the air reservoir and cylinder on the Tichy A/B brake sprue can be very frustrating, not to mention trying to drill those #72 holes into the reservoir filtings.
The Tichy kits are great, but they should be worked up to.
I still struggle with Tichy tank cars. I pretty much just buy brass models for tank cars now.
The O.P. mentioned that price was an object, and I understand that when new skills are being learned. And there might be money that needs to be spent on some tools that have not been needed up to now. The original LifeLike Proto2000 freight car kits are often seen unbuilt at train shows (remember those? ) for as little as $5, and of course you take what you can get in the way of prototype. I'd start with the flatcar if you can find it.
The days are long gone when the first of what I'd call "complex" plastic freight car kits was the Kurtz Kraft PS-1 boxcar kit from the late 1950s. It came without trucks or couplers in a plastic bag and sold for 89 cents! Or was it 79 cents? Separate ends, sides, roof and floor, separate ladders and grabs - and this came at a time when plastic had the reputation of being for inept modelers and kids. Not many modelers actually had any skills back then working with styrene. Just about the time modelers got good at assembling Kurtz Kraft kits, the line disappeared. The next similar car a few years later was the Pacific HO mechanical reefer which Silver Streak and later Walthers ended up selling. But again once you learned and got good at it (meaning your first car might be a bit rough around the edges and there were also design flaws inherent in the Pacific HO mechanical reefer that Walthers was never able to cure) there was little to no other line of plastic kits that your newly acquired skills could be applied to.
That is why the Gould plastic kits - tank car, flat car, locomotive crane -- were such a revelation at the time when they came out, oh I think 1980 or so. And once again skills had to be learned, although by that time there was more kitbashing and scratchbuilding going on in plastic as well as kit modification, so for some guys the skills were there. The Gould line is now part of Tichy's.
I mentioned the Life Like Proto2000 kits. For those who remember when those kits were new, Life Like would generously send free replacement sprues for grab irons and other delicate parts because frankly I think they kind of got ahead of the talent level of the hobby in terms of what a tool and die person COULD do in the way of thin cross sectons and what even a skilled modeler needed in the way of even modest durability and practicality and fine motor skills. I think I took advantage of their generosity for the first three P2K freight cars I built. I still needed more parts for the fourth kit but by then I had a little stash thanks to LifeLike!
I think Life Like later started to introduce some wire grabs into the kits even before they sold themselves to Walthers. You can make your own wire parts as mentioned above but there are also aftermarket parts that can be adapted. Speaking personally (and I am at odds with some of my prototype modeler friends on this topic) I am prepared to sacrifice some accuracy and realism for practical durability.
Now rare but at one time IMWX kits were being sold off cheap because the line had disappeared. I believe IMWX was actually Intermountain from back when Intermountain was mostly a 1/4" scale kit maker and IMWX was their way of dipping their toes into HO. The 1937 AAR boxcar kit builts up very similarly if not identically to Intermountain and Red Caboose so I am glad I got my feet wet with the style with a kit that didn't make me feel nervous about the cost.
The advice above about sticking with the Accurail-level type of kit (similar to Athearn blue box, Bowser, Con-Cor) but go all out with more accurate detailing is also good in terms of learned skills and learned patience. Again some new tools may need to be added to your workbench but what red-blooded modeler ever complained about that? Micro Mark sells a special chisel for getting rid of the unwanted cast on details. Of course you can also hone these skills with RTR cars or kits that other people have built and sell at swap meets/train shows (sigh again). In fact there is train set crap that you can get for a $1 at some shows to practice on, but then there comes the day when you actually do a great job and wish you'd done it with a better car. But see Dr. Wayne's various postings over the last many years because it seems there is no train-set raw material sow's ear that he cannot convert into a silk purse gem with skill and sweat equity. And patience.
And that in my opinion is the major skill that needs to be acquired before taking on the next level(s) -- patience. Thinking ahead to next steps. Slowly and thoughtfully reading the instructions (fighting every manly instinct you have).
Dave Nelson
I've built a few Tichy kits, flatcars and boxcars. The kits have a lot of small parts, and the brake components make for a nice model even if only you know they are there.
I get these kits undecorated and they're very reasonably priced. Because they were all planned or non-standard use, idler flats for the carfloat and hide service for the tannery, I printed my own decals and did my own rattle can spray painting. These skills are part of kitbuilding too, so here's a chance to work on those, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Pennsy_I1 Pennsy_I1 ...I'm looking to improve my skills. Gidday, Ok, all very good advice so far but depending on what skills you’re actually wishing to improve, I’m going to put it out there that an Athearn blue box freight car kit is a great step. Unless you can get an undecorated kit, you can learn how to paint strip, to remove cast on moulding, to thin roof walks, to make your own grab irons and steps, to drill # 79 holes (preferably with out breaking them, a problem that the Bear has ) to paint, to apply decals, and best of all, if things turn to custard, the kit was cheap! Cheers, the Bear. Eventually I'll have to scratchbuild (notably steam locos, as I have a VERY hard time finding PRR steamers for a reasonable price), so all those would probably be very useful. Also, what's a good way to learn to repair motors?
In regards to "reasonable price"d locomotives, what price range are you looking at?
Pennsy_I1 Eventually I'll have to scratchbuild (notably steam locos, as I have a VERY hard time finding PRR steamers for a reasonable price), so all those would probably be very useful. Also, what's a good way to learn to repair motors?
At the price of new can motors why tinker around trying to repair a motor.My thing is restoring old locomotives to as good if not better than new out of the box.The Mabuchi motors are very powerful and work very nicely in HO locomotives. Most Neodymium magnet motors draw less than half the current and have more than double the power, best of all is the low cost.The Mabuchi SF266SA 12 VDC- 6900 RPM No load single 2mm shaft costs under $5.I have remotored well over 30 HO steam locomotives using either the Canon EN22 or the SF266SA motors. The EN22 is getting hard to find and the price is increasing. I buy the SF266SA in bulk for around $3.50.I install a pair of SF266SA motors in my Rivarossi articulateds.Two SF266SA motors draw less than half the current of the Rivarossi motor with four times the power. I add 10 ounces of weight to the boilers and that more than doubles the drawbar. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Pennsy,
P2K is your next step. Stock cars, box cars and gondolas are good bets. These kits have good trucks and they supply proper weight with the kit. You will have to replace the couplers. As for the plastic grabs, you can replace those with wire but I haven't had problems with the plastic grabs and I have lots of these cars on the layout.
Dealing with individually installed grab irons is usually the thing that hangs up most people moving to the next level of kits. Make peace with installing them and you will be well on your way...I did an article years ago for another magazine on batch building cars and I timed how long it took to do each step in a batch of P2K stock cars. Cutting the grabs from the sprue and installing them took the most time.
Tichy and resin kits require painting and decals which is another step up the ladder. Re-detailing old Athearn cars is a good learning experience but lots of effort for a less realisitc product. However, I have redetailed several old blue box kits just because I like the cars, especially the 50' express fruit reefers.
Lots of ways to go, Buy a few kits and give it a shot..
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I've also built a number of Proto 2000 kits of double-deck stock cars and boxcars. These are a bit more complex than Accurail kits, and make slightly nicer models. These I have bought as decorated kits, so only some additional weathering is needed.
Like all my rolling stock, these got Intermountain metal wheelsets and Kadee couplers during assembly.
I got these some time ago as Walthers Flyer closeouts. That is a good place to look.
Installing grab irons on Proto 2000 kits is not really a difficulty. It's the stirrups that are challanging to remove from the sprue without breaking. And the stirrups are the ones that are most apt to break after installation if handled incorrectly, or if the car is laid on its side.
On a few Proto 2000 cars with broken stirrups I just replaced all of them with the proper type metal stirrup from A-Line. (You'll destroy the car before bending or breaking one of those.) The challenge is drilling the holes straight from the bottom side into the narrow wall of the shell. They do look great when done well.
Pennsy_I1Also, do hardware stores sell the kinds of drills and bits that I need?
Nope. The small drills needed for this purpose are specialty hobby items and will need to be obtained from a hobby retailer or someplace like Micro Mark.
Rob Spangler
McMaster-Carr is a good source from small drill bits and screws at good prices. You'll also want a good pin vise(s) small enough to handle #61-#80 drill bits.
tstage Pennsy_I1 Pennsy_I1 ...I'm looking to improve my skills. Gidday, Ok, all very good advice so far but depending on what skills you’re actually wishing to improve, I’m going to put it out there that an Athearn blue box freight car kit is a great step. Unless you can get an undecorated kit, you can learn how to paint strip, to remove cast on moulding, to thin roof walks, to make your own grab irons and steps, to drill # 79 holes (preferably with out breaking them, a problem that the Bear has ) to paint, to apply decals, and best of all, if things turn to custard, the kit was cheap! Cheers, the Bear. Eventually I'll have to scratchbuild (notably steam locos, as I have a VERY hard time finding PRR steamers for a reasonable price), so all those would probably be very useful. Also, what's a good way to learn to repair motors? In regards to "reasonable price"d locomotives, what price range are you looking at? Tom
Reasonable price for a loco (for me) is less than $300 for something in good condition. I'm having a hard time finding a job in the rural area I'm in, so money is a huge concern.
dknelson The O.P. mentioned that price was an object, and I understand that when new skills are being learned. And there might be money that needs to be spent on some tools that have not been needed up to now. The original LifeLike Proto2000 freight car kits are often seen unbuilt at train shows (remember those? ) for as little as $5, and of course you take what you can get in the way of prototype. I'd start with the flatcar if you can find it. The days are long gone when the first of what I'd call "complex" plastic freight car kits was the Kurtz Kraft PS-1 boxcar kit from the late 1950s. It came without trucks or couplers in a plastic bag and sold for 89 cents! Or was it 79 cents? Separate ends, sides, roof and floor, separate ladders and grabs - and this came at a time when plastic had the reputation of being for inept modelers and kids. Not many modelers actually had any skills back then working with styrene. Just about the time modelers got good at assembling Kurtz Kraft kits, the line disappeared. The next similar car a few years later was the Pacific HO mechanical reefer which Silver Streak and later Walthers ended up selling. But again once you learned and got good at it (meaning your first car might be a bit rough around the edges and there were also design flaws inherent in the Pacific HO mechanical reefer that Walthers was never able to cure) there was little to no other line of plastic kits that your newly acquired skills could be applied to. That is why the Gould plastic kits - tank car, flat car, locomotive crane -- were such a revelation at the time when they came out, oh I think 1980 or so. And once again skills had to be learned, although by that time there was more kitbashing and scratchbuilding going on in plastic as well as kit modification, so for some guys the skills were there. The Gould line is now part of Tichy's. I mentioned the Life Like Proto2000 kits. For those who remember when those kits were new, Life Like would generously send free replacement sprues for grab irons and other delicate parts because frankly I think they kind of got ahead of the talent level of the hobby in terms of what a tool and die person COULD do in the way of thin cross sectons and what even a skilled modeler needed in the way of even modest durability and practicality and fine motor skills. I think I took advantage of their generosity for the first three P2K freight cars I built. I still needed more parts for the fourth kit but by then I had a little stash thanks to LifeLike! I think Life Like later started to introduce some wire grabs into the kits even before they sold themselves to Walthers. You can make your own wire parts as mentioned above but there are also aftermarket parts that can be adapted. Speaking personally (and I am at odds with some of my prototype modeler friends on this topic) I am prepared to sacrifice some accuracy and realism for practical durability. Now rare but at one time IMWX kits were being sold off cheap because the line had disappeared. I believe IMWX was actually Intermountain from back when Intermountain was mostly a 1/4" scale kit maker and IMWX was their way of dipping their toes into HO. The 1937 AAR boxcar kit builts up very similarly if not identically to Intermountain and Red Caboose so I am glad I got my feet wet with the style with a kit that didn't make me feel nervous about the cost. The advice above about sticking with the Accurail-level type of kit (similar to Athearn blue box, Bowser, Con-Cor) but go all out with more accurate detailing is also good in terms of learned skills and learned patience. Again some new tools may need to be added to your workbench but what red-blooded modeler ever complained about that? Micro Mark sells a special chisel for getting rid of the unwanted cast on details. Of course you can also hone these skills with RTR cars or kits that other people have built and sell at swap meets/train shows (sigh again). In fact there is train set crap that you can get for a $1 at some shows to practice on, but then there comes the day when you actually do a great job and wish you'd done it with a better car. But see Dr. Wayne's various postings over the last many years because it seems there is no train-set raw material sow's ear that he cannot convert into a silk purse gem with skill and sweat equity. And patience. And that in my opinion is the major skill that needs to be acquired before taking on the next level(s) -- patience. Thinking ahead to next steps. Slowly and thoughtfully reading the instructions (fighting every manly instinct you have). Dave Nelson
The flatcars and open hoppers seem like a good place to start, as with my era and prototype, coal was king and there were plenty of military trains rolling through.
The Bowser freight car kits are, imho, a good bang for the buck. Fun to assemble and, with detailing and weathering, look pretty nice.
They're not Genesis level but are a nice step above the traditional Athearn blue box kits.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Pennsy_I1 In regards to "reasonable price"d locomotives, what price range are you looking at? Tom Reasonable price for a loco (for me) is less than $300 for something in good condition. I'm having a hard time finding a job in the rural area I'm in, so money is a huge concern.
In regards to "reasonable price"d locomotives, what price range are you looking at? Tom
Great! Thanks for giving us some price "boundaries", Pennsy. And I get needing to find a job and watching your pennies. Been laid off twice in the past 6 years.
Okay, next question: What type PRR steamers are you looking for? Switchers? Mikados? Large steam? If you give us your preferences we may be able to hunt something down for you.
Although I don't know why a NYC guy would want to help a PRR guy.
Just to note, most PRR steam engines can be had for very little. They may need some work, but imo thats much better than scratch building, unless thats your thing ;)
Nearly every single PRR steam engine thinkable has been made in brass (A5,B6,E5,E6, G5, K2, K4(and both streamlined), K5, H6, H8, H9, H10, L1, M1, I1, N1, T1, Q1, Q2, Turbine, etc. )
MOST can be had for around $170 (unpainted,stock motor) if you look long enough on ebay. Others, notably the larger engines not so much. Some will need some work, but I think its worth it in the long run.
Aim for Olympia, Gem, Alco, United, PFM, Sunset, and Westside brass makers.
BLI PRR engines can also be had for cheap too, M1s these days are selling like hot cakes for around $100-$150, and others for less than $250(if you really look hard enough).
Im not saying dont scratchbuild, but if youre doing it soley for the purpose of saving money, I dont think its worth it.
Cheers!
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
dknelsonAnd that in my opinion is the major skill that needs to be acquired before taking on the next level(s) -- patience. Thinking ahead to next steps. Slowly and thoughtfully reading the instructions (fighting every manly instinct you have)
Dave: That was an excellent post. I enjoyed reading it all the way through.
Thank you.
willy6 Years ago I gave my model railroad friend a Proto 2000 box car kit as a holiday gift. About a month later, he gave it back to me and said "Thanks for the thought but there is no way I am even going to attempt to build that". It is still sitting on the shelf in my train building as a retirement project.
Wow, I've never considered myself skilled kit builder but Ive built around 5 proto 2000 boxcars and a couple of gondolas and a covered 3 bay hopper. I guess that guy freaked out when he saw all those bitty parts. I used a xacto blade to cut the parts off the sprue by a few years later got a sprue nipper at a train show and it makes despruing a breeze. I'd have built more boxcars but they are a bit too early for my late 70's theme layout.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983