Just to be clear on a couple points:
I actually like sound in larger scales, where the viewer is in a more intimate viewing perspective with the model, and where larger speakers allow considerably better sound.
And, regarding DCC, the operational benefits of DCC are in my opinion most valuable on smaller, or medium sized layouts where multi train operation is still desired.
DCC would only ad the smallest measure of operational flexibility or realism to my non crowded, basement sized, CTC controlled layout, at considerable extra expense for my required operational roster of 140 powered units, and the need for 8-10 throttles.
I do agree that for the vast majority of modelers, DCC is the best choice, for a myriad of different reasons related to their specific goals, skills, interests, etc.
No giraffe cars, exploding box cars, missile launchers, little men loading milk cans, or watchman dashing in and out of shanties here............
But I'm the guy who never owned a LIONEL train.......
Sheldon
"Mommy, Wayne's making fun of my giraffe car again"
DN
DAVID FORTNEYI appreciate what MTH and BLI are doing to bring our engines into the year 2020. Technology moves forward all the time so why should our ho trains be stuck in the 1950's.
Uhhhhhh...there was smoke in the 50s...at least in S-scale.
In regards to technology, I most appreciate the greater details of our models due to innovations in mold making using CNC. I also greatly enjoy the benefits of DCC. Sound is fun for short durations but I really like being able to operate two locomotives independently on the same track or layout w/o the need for blocks.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAlso, for me, it is also about viewing/listening perspective.
Quite right, Sheldon! You simply can´t scale down your own eyes and own ears.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Well, call me as old fashioned as you like, but smoke, sound, "steamy" steam generator cars, station announcements (that one is really funny to me) are all gimmicks that for me lack realism in smaller scales.
Sound, I know lots of you love sound. But as a HiFi enthusiast I find it lacking bass, harsh, tinny, too loud most of the time, like trying to listen to the sounds of a locomotive thru a 1963 9 transistor radio.
Smoke/steam, like others have said, I will skip the cost, complexity, mess, the future repair problems and the environmental issues in my train room.
For me a big issue with all this sort of thing is my lack of need or interest in DCC.
Also, for me, it is also about viewing/listening perspective.
At three feet away in HO you are 270 scale feet away. I have done some listening and viewing tests with the prototype. At that distance under average conditions, you would be surprised at what you don't hear, and don't notice visually.
But, if you like that sort of thing, and you have the budget for it, have at it.
rrinkerThe one Ulrich posted is quite nice. But that's not HO, is it?
No, it´s not HO scale, but Gauge 1 (1/32scale). I have seen the what the manufacturer calls "Dynamic Smoke" in person and I was impressed. Each loco is equipped with up to 5 pulsed, ventilator driven smoke generators, which are too large for HO scale. As you already stated, the locos are not cheap.
As much as I like "smoking" steam engines, I don´t think it´s worth the trouble in HO scale, as you simply can´t produce a sufficiently dense volume of smoke.
The one Ulrich posted is quite nice. But that's not HO, is it? And that whole tender must be filled with smoke fluid to get any sort of run time witht he volume of smoke that puts out. I'd have to say, I'd be tempted to load that up and turn the smoke on once in a while. Animated doors on the toolbox, the reverse links move, all the lights, steam from all the places it should steam from, even the lube pump drive moves! That is a pretty amazing model. And if that's one of the KM1 models - yeah, those go for somewhere around $4500 USD. 1:32 scale.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I appreciate what MTH and BLI are doing to bring our engines into the year 2020. Technology moves forward all the time so why should our ho trains be stuck in the 1950's.
Real steam engines smoke so why shouldn't our models. I remember the naysayers back when sound first came to be and all the moaning by us real modelers would never accept sound. Well guess what, HO modelers have. The same thing can be said about dcc and many other advances.
If you don't like or want smoke, that's ok don't use or buy an engine with smoke. Heck I'm allergic to it so I will not use it but I like it and would never say to others that you should not use it.
Dave
I do appreciate MTH's efforts in advancing the technology built into models. It is impressive how much features they cram into a model. (such as the wireless drawbar! why don't others do this?!)
That being said, smoke is just a gimmick to me. I wouldn't mind it if the oil didnt get all over my models(BLI engines likes to leak smoke fluid through the boiler seams).
I still have yet to get a GS-4 to pull my coast daylight consist, but I'll stick with finding an older run of MTH GS-4s, or possibly a BLI GS-4 if one still exists, as I don't have $500 to spend on a single engine.
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
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Paul3 Hard pass. Smoke units are banned at my club due to the smell, the problems with oily residue all over the place (also making the track dirtier), and the negative effect on people's lungs, eyes, and throats. ... Then there's the realism factor (or lack thereof). Most of the time, steam engine exhaust is gray or black. The only time it's white is on a cold winter day when the fireman is talented enough for a smoke-free fire. And when it's that cold, it should have billowing clouds of steam and not look like a burning cigarette.
Hard pass. Smoke units are banned at my club due to the smell, the problems with oily residue all over the place (also making the track dirtier), and the negative effect on people's lungs, eyes, and throats.
...
Then there's the realism factor (or lack thereof). Most of the time, steam engine exhaust is gray or black. The only time it's white is on a cold winter day when the fireman is talented enough for a smoke-free fire. And when it's that cold, it should have billowing clouds of steam and not look like a burning cigarette.
I mean, sure, if you're talking about the Bachmann 0-6-0 from the 70's.
I get that smoke can irritate the nose and throat, but lets not compare a BLI or MTH from 2020 with a model that's 50 years old, and pretend like the 50 year old model is the gold standard; it's not.
You can control "spit" around the smokestack by adjusting the heating element temperature and fan speed. So turn up the heating element temperature and enjoy railfanning with an engine that produces realistic smoke -- especially in a yard, where the smoke is hardly ever black or grey.
doctorwayneIn my opinion, smoke and steam effects on models are as prototypical as a giraffe car. Wayne
Wayne
Don't you think that's a stretch, Wayne? Or, are you willing to stick your neck out on that one?
doctorwayne In my opinion, smoke and steam effects on models are as prototypical a giraffe car. Wayne
In my opinion, smoke and steam effects on models are as prototypical a giraffe car.
You mean there is no prototype for this?
Next you will tell me there is no Santa Claus!
In my opinion, smoke and steam effects on models are as prototypical as a giraffe car.
dknelson"Smoke" (steam) for the whistle is a cute idea. Next I suppose will be the ear-splitting sound and shower of steam from a safety valve.
Like this?
Been done before along with blowdowns but not on RTR. By the way, smoke should be whiteish if run properly.
After a while my respiratory system does tend to react badly to the concentration of "smoke" units at big train shows like Trainfest in Milwaukee, or Madison's train show. Some of those Lionel units really put out the smoke. (And yes you do see greasy residue on the tops of the locomotives by the end of a day.)
"Smoke" (steam) for the whistle is a cute idea. Next I suppose will be the ear-splitting sound and shower of steam from a safety valve.
Those of us who remember passenger trains before Amtrak might remember steam leaks between every car, and at the last car - a classic scene in old movies, too. I suspect those are coming too.
Dave Nelson
Hard pass. Smoke units are banned at my club due to the smell, the problems with oily residue all over the place (also making the track dirtier), and the negative effect on people's lungs, eyes, and throats. We had a visiting G-scale portable club set up in our layout room during an open house, and those guys had the smoke turned up to 11. We were coughing, our eyes were watering, and we had scratchy throats after two days of that nonsense (and this is in our 6300+ sq. ft. layout room with 12' ceilings!). That one exhibition caused us to ban all smoke units in the club permanently.Then there's the realism factor (or lack thereof). Most of the time, steam engine exhaust is gray or black. The only time it's white is on a cold winter day when the fireman is talented enough for a smoke-free fire. And when it's that cold, it should have billowing clouds of steam and not look like a burning cigarette.
I think you're right, John. It is convenient that the whistle on the GS-4s just happens to be right next to the exhaust stack. Not sure if MTH would have bothered if the whistle were further back on the boiler.
Even so, not something that I desire on my layout - even if it were an NYC Mohawk or Hudson.
I found this very interesting! This is a new feature for HO, I don't think it's been done before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTDrKpW01xI