rrebell I find that hesitation uses more time than anything. Lets face it the walls of the kit get braced (quickly if you have a chopper), I acc them to the sides and I stain once built, then maybe dry brush or ... Roofs take the most time but I do several at the same time and leave the overhangs toll done then trim (unless that can't be done for some reason).
I find that hesitation uses more time than anything. Lets face it the walls of the kit get braced (quickly if you have a chopper), I acc them to the sides and I stain once built, then maybe dry brush or ... Roofs take the most time but I do several at the same time and leave the overhangs toll done then trim (unless that can't be done for some reason).
Well, since I don't model "run down and neglected", my models get painted. Maybe that's where I spend more time......
I'm also not much for ACC, wood glue and 5 minute epoxy are my weapons of choice.
Sheldon
rrebell How did you spend 100 hrs on a FSM kit unless it is the John Allen special. I did the icehouse in about 20 hr, 5 of which was planing upgrades like I didn't like the two peice deck.
How did you spend 100 hrs on a FSM kit unless it is the John Allen special. I did the icehouse in about 20 hr, 5 of which was planing upgrades like I didn't like the two peice deck.
Good for you, I don't know that I could build that kit in 20 hours.
And, I think a lot of the later, larger models could easily be 50 to 100 hour projects.
Bayfield Transfer RailwayAnd I'm going to stick my dinkie in the meat grinder here and suggest that this hobby overfetishizes decay. I saw the NMRA Bulletin featuring the convention's winning models 4 or 5 years ago, and not a single winning entry was of something in good condition. And I don't mean "weathered," or "beat up" -- I mean out and out derelict. Anybody looking in from the outside would think we were modeling urban blight, not railroads.
I also agree with you.
Personally, when I build in wood I make it look in good condition like it's currently being used.
As for collecting kits, well I do sort of. I have a fair number of kits, but they were all bought with the idea that eventually I'll build them.
Paul
My thought is, who counts hours when your working on your hobby? and why?
Mike.
My You Tube
Bayfield Transfer Railway And I'm going to stick my dinkie in the meat grinder here and suggest that this hobby overfetishizes decay. I saw the NMRA Bulletin featuring the convention's winning models 4 or 5 years ago, and not a single winning entry was of something in good condition. And I don't mean "weathered," or "beat up" -- I mean out and out derelict.Anybody looking in from the outside would think we were modeling urban blight, not railroads.
And I'm going to stick my dinkie in the meat grinder here and suggest that this hobby overfetishizes decay. I saw the NMRA Bulletin featuring the convention's winning models 4 or 5 years ago, and not a single winning entry was of something in good condition. And I don't mean "weathered," or "beat up" -- I mean out and out derelict.Anybody looking in from the outside would think we were modeling urban blight, not railroads.
While many consider Selios' F&SM a masterpiece, my biggest criticism of it is that the entire layout is uniformly over-weathered. I've never seen any urban area where every building is equally dilapidated. Some would be kept in poor shape, but many others would be freshly painted, while still others would be anywhere in-between.
As far as the FSM kits declining in value, anyone who buys model train items on speculation that it will be worth more someday is taking a risk.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Bayfield Transfer Railway Besides being an operator first, another reason I have no interest in FSM kits is that I don't model the early 20th century; somebody already mentioned this upthread.Like the "John Allen's Enginehouse" kit. It would be supremely out of place on my 1980s railroad. And for those keeping score at home, the 1980s were over 30 years ago; they ARE "the old days."And I'm going to stick my dinkie in the meat grinder here and suggest that this hobby overfetishizes decay. I saw the NMRA Bulletin featuring the convention's winning models 4 or 5 years ago, and not a single winning entry was of something in good condition. And I don't mean "weathered," or "beat up" -- I mean out and out derelict.Anybody looking in from the outside would think we were modeling urban blight, not railroads.
Besides being an operator first, another reason I have no interest in FSM kits is that I don't model the early 20th century; somebody already mentioned this upthread.Like the "John Allen's Enginehouse" kit. It would be supremely out of place on my 1980s railroad. And for those keeping score at home, the 1980s were over 30 years ago; they ARE "the old days."And I'm going to stick my dinkie in the meat grinder here and suggest that this hobby overfetishizes decay. I saw the NMRA Bulletin featuring the convention's winning models 4 or 5 years ago, and not a single winning entry was of something in good condition. And I don't mean "weathered," or "beat up" -- I mean out and out derelict.Anybody looking in from the outside would think we were modeling urban blight, not railroads.
Yes, the 80's were 30 years ago, but not everyone models an era that they lived thru.......and some of us go back a lot father than that even if we did.
I don't model the turn of the last century either, and most of these kits do not fit my era or locale either, at least not as proposed by the kit maker.......
And I'm going to stick my dinkie in the meat grinder here and suggest that this hobby overfetishizes decay.
Well, on that I am going to agree with you and defend you.
Carefully crafted as it may be, the F&SM is a caricature. The Great Depression was not that depressing visually, not by any long shot. While I respect the builders skill and talent, it is not a modeling style I imbrace.
In real life, in any given moment, in any given place, there things in decay, things that are new, and things in between.
I have no interest in modeling poverty on a large scale........
Or tragedy, or crime......
I model the best things in life, tempered with some realism.
Back to the topic of modeling era - I model the early 50's, I was born in 1957, so my childhood memories of trains are the late 60's and early 70's - I would NEVER model that era!
If I was going to pick another era, it would be the late 20's, right before the "crash".
Yes, I'm a history person. Modeling a time before my life combines the two interests.
I pay little attention to current railroading, it does not interest me much at all.
Back to the thread topic - The value of anything is only determined by how bad you want it, and how bad the other person wants to be rid of it.
I never understood the "collector" thing with this particular type of product anyway, especially by those who clearly hardly ever actually built one of these kits.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Haven't gotten an unusable kit yet from any of the FSM, Campbell or other wood kits I have built. Sure there were warped peices in some but sometimes peices came warped at the getgo but most the reason is not the storage (asuming a dry place) but from the repacking of kits after examination by the oringinal owner especially in FSM kits with their sometimes very heavy castings. Bought one wood kit off e-bay and all the heavy castings were on top of very thin stripwood so they were broken and bent (I have lots of stripwood so no issue) but this was due to very bad repacking.
I hear you John. Parts that break or split (or come that way) is one of the risks of wood kits, even newly issued ones. It is common enough - routine even - for the thin sides made of wood that Jeff Wilson's book on building structures provides suggestions for fixes on the assumption that if you build enough wood kits it is something you'll run into.
Most wood rolling stock kits had thicker sides than some of these high quality structure kits.
Dave Nelson
dknelson I think it might also be fair to point out that a wood kit (or kit with wood parts) needs to be stored correctly to avoid warping of parts. The older those FSM kits get the more you have to trust/hope that the prior owner stored them correctly. I was once delighted to get an Alexander kit at a nice price only to learn that it was severely warped almost beyond build-ability and good mostly for the castings, which for Alexander unlike FSM were not always worthy of the rest of the kit.
I think it might also be fair to point out that a wood kit (or kit with wood parts) needs to be stored correctly to avoid warping of parts. The older those FSM kits get the more you have to trust/hope that the prior owner stored them correctly. I was once delighted to get an Alexander kit at a nice price only to learn that it was severely warped almost beyond build-ability and good mostly for the castings, which for Alexander unlike FSM were not always worthy of the rest of the kit.
I found just the opposite problem. I purchase FSM's version of the John Allen engine house off ebay a few years ago. I think the kit came out in the early 1980s. The walls were so dry they were brittle and one broke apart along the clapboard line. It wasn't a hard fix but I learned I had to handle with care.
I have sworn off craftsman kits because of the amount of time it takes to build them. I have done a few FSM kits and they are outstanding and I have the FSM kit based on John Allen's engine house which I intend to build but I'm not buying any more. Life's too short.
In most endeavors, you have a choice of paying more money or investing more time to get what you want. With craftsman kits, you do both. You are essentially paying for the privilage of spending more time. Yes they do look outstanding when they are completed but at what cost? Woodland Scenics produces some outstanding pre-built structures and offer many of them in kit form as well at less than half the cost. Why would I want to spend 80-100 hours when I can go buy something right off the shelf for less money.
My biggest gripe with craftsman kits is that some of them are nothing more than a box of sticks and a plan. I have to cut the scale lumber to size and cut the openings for the windows and door in walls. What am I paying for? I might as well scratchbuild if I'm going to go that route.
FSM kits were the first kits with step by step instructions, they even told you what colors were recamended and what company made them and how to build them including bracing. Their kits could make a master builder out of a starter in just a few kits.
While the FSM kits contained some nice detail parts, I never cared for the structures themselves...very fanciful and filled with impractical features which would not be used in real buildings.An nearby LHS (now gone for some time) used to get many of those kits, unbuilt and in many cases, even unopened, when they bought estate lots, many of the latter which were purchased at prices up to six figures. Apparently the kits were a highly sought-after item, and commanded (in my opinion) ridiculous prices. Even if I could have afforded such kits, I wouldn't have bothered, as I'm not at all a fan of building models using wood.
Wayne
mbinsewi On March 27th, there was a thread on the cost of brass going down, guys were showing off the deals they found. Mike.
On March 27th, there was a thread on the cost of brass going down, guys were showing off the deals they found.
Yes, I saw that thread. Started looking in its wake. Maybe I'll have better luck finding FSM kits.
Gary
IRONROOSTER riogrande5761 Like many, I'll probably need to work past when many used to retire. So ... I wish you the best on that. I and others I know found age discrimination is rampant. Good luck Paul
riogrande5761 Like many, I'll probably need to work past when many used to retire. So ...
I wish you the best on that. I and others I know found age discrimination is rampant.
Good luck
riogrande5761Like many, I'll probably need to work past when many used to retire. So ...
Yes. They were showing of silly low priced stuff. But I didn't bring it up first here! That was Gary's privilage.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
garya Still waiting for the deals on the brass I want.
Still waiting for the deals on the brass I want.
Keep looking. I was pleasantly surprised I was able to win two Overland wide vision cabooses off of eBay for $90 each, unpainted. One D&RGW 1500 class and one UP CA-5 (Utah Rwy acquired two CA-5/6 class steel cabooses from the UP).
SeeYou190 Just one more reason why I am thankful for the collector/hoarders of days gone by. First they stored all my brass locomotives for me until I could afford them, then the two FSM kits I wanted. . I also have purchased every laser cut wood kit for my layout for dimes on the dollar. . -Kevin .
Just one more reason why I am thankful for the collector/hoarders of days gone by. First they stored all my brass locomotives for me until I could afford them, then the two FSM kits I wanted.
.
I also have purchased every laser cut wood kit for my layout for dimes on the dollar.
-Kevin
You're luckier than me. Still waiting for the deals on the brass I want.
Bayfield Transfer RailwayAnd some of us are more interested in operations than kit building.
And getting a layout built to some relative form of doneness requires a lot of time and different things. Of course to get a layout with some buildings, industries for rail cars to serve, etc. will require some kit building. When I get to the stage of having to locate appropriate buildings or background indurstries, I'll start sorting out what fits and of course will need to get some together. Likely I'll be using some Watlhers buildings.
I understand about lack of time, I aquired many of my kits though at a time I was working and many weeks I put in 70+ hours, more than once did it for hourly pay, not including my own money making projects. Luckily when I got married I do not remember some of my 20 hr work days but still had plenty of 10+. Even when I worked for 9 years at HD (big box store), by the time you figure in the commute, it was over 11 hours a day for 5 a week and then home to do landlord stuff. As far no money as in pay, everything from free (doing plumbing with a master to get plumbing skills) to about $25 an hour (this was 15+ years ago) as an hourly for HD and don't forget investments that earned negative money (investment in a wine syrup company) to 400% (short term bridge loan I did and with borrowed money to boot).
IRONROOSTER riogrande5761 the honey-do list Skip the wife.
riogrande5761 the honey-do list
Skip the wife.
I've spent enough time alone and single - it didn't work very well for me. I love my wife and she supports my hobby. She made it a priority to find a basement with a house. She is doing a lot of physical work to move the basment forward. We should start painting the basement walls this weekend!
No, not skipping the wife.
riogrande5761 the house that has a lot of work needing done Skip the house - rent and let the landord do the work.
Skip the house - rent and let the landord do the work.
I threw my money down a hole for a long time renting. You can get a mortgage where I live for similar cost as rent, and at least you get to keep some of it.
riogrande5761 Yes, I've heard some say they have less time when they retire from F/T work, Skip retirement.
Skip retirement.
Like many, I'll probably need to work past when many used to retire. So ...
Agreed with all. I have a full-time job, young kids, a wife and subsequent honey-do list. Such responsibilities push MR to the back burner. Getting even 45 minutes a night for MR is such a joy. Why wait until retirement to start a layout?
I enjoy building structures and tried with cars. The latter are far more challenging. I am proud to tell others that these cars I built and so too with the buildings.
Do whatever works!
Living the dream.
A risk discount is in order, in other words.
The older kits that had cardstock or matt board parts were particularly prone to damage from humidity.