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How effective is the NMRA? Locked

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, November 29, 2018 7:52 PM

Well, it has been 5 years and no Magic Of Model Railroading and no mention of it coming.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, November 29, 2018 8:08 PM

Nice post Xbox, someone from the younger generation speaks out.  I'm from the "baby boomers", 1949.

Mike.

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, November 29, 2018 9:02 PM

rrebell
I just went over their tax returns, $400,000.00 in compinsations.

Please cite your reference here. Not sure what tax returns you're talking about? The NMRA is a 501c3 and the tax liability listed in the finanicial report is $24. And there is no way they're paying $400000 for what is 3 FTE positions. This is office work except for a single admin position and I think that's very unlikely to itself pay over $100000, more likely far closer to $50000. In any case, the exact amnounts are covered by the exclusions previously cited. But whatever "compinsations" you're talking about it has nothing to do with paying salaries of the paid staff.

Really, a lot less speculation and rumor-mongering would help this conversation. Facts are troublesome things but making stuff up is really not appropriate.

IRONROOSTER
So the 13700 dues paying members are carrying 3000+ member who don't pay dues?

There's a significant block of life members whose costs are carried by various investments and funds. There are also the trial memberships, family members who pay significantly less than $75. I did not intend to supply a detailed breakdown. I don't do HQ financees. I just was pointing out that dues are a significant part of revenue and that they are accounted for in the numbers.

IRONROOSTER
Exactly

Look, this stuff is published on a monthly basis. Claiming it's all mysterious because you're too busy to bother looking it up before you make stuff up and then blaming me for offering detail that tends to refute your baseless accusations after I do the best I can in a half hour to point out it's there if you bother looking...sorry, I don't really have any sympathy for my having an obligation to remove all your ignorance when I pointed you in the direction where you could educate yourself.

IRONROOSTER
When I joined in 1972 the dues were $5.00. Adjusted for inflation (using the governments CPI Inflation Calculator) that would be $30.76 today. Actual current dues are $75.00 - that's a $44.24 difference. Might be one reason people don't join.

You didn't get a color-imaged magazine on slick paper in 1972. Or a vast array of services delivered electronically (the internet really isn't free, ya know?) including video content about basic and advanced topics available as part of your membership.

The CPI represents average costs. Depending on the goods and services in the basket, there are considerable differences in the total inflation value. In any case, thousands of people every year disagree with you over the value of their membership. I'm on a fixed income and I consider it to be $75 well spent. You're free to do as you please, of course.

SeeYou190
Well, this does not look good.

As was already mentioned, the HQ building was sold. That income added to the organization's assets at the same time it greatly reduced annual upkeep expenses. It was exactly the sort of wise use of member assets that I thought motivated Zane's original question. Too bad so many have a problem recognizing good stewardship, as when these facts come up they might realize this is exactly what is good.

HOmainline
Other member-based non-profit organizations to which I belong or have belonged do indeed publish detailed, annual financial statements in their magazines. That the NMRA does not is very suspect.

You must've skimmed through. As I noted earlier, the most recent detailed finanicial report is in the September 2018 NMRA Magazine. It is an "audited report" which means it was reviewed by an outside accounting firm which undoubtedly employs CPAs.

HOmainline
the organization's jaw-droppingly laughable membership recruitment strategy announced in an e-Bulletin early this year: "Membership Retention is the best and most economical way to grow our numbers." Yep. Keep the ones (who are largely older and dying off) we've already got and we'll grow. Economical it certainly is.

Kerry,

You missed the point. What that means is that you work hard at satisfying your members, as it's easier to keep them on board than it is to add new members. That doesn't mean new members are disregraded, just that you should make sure the ones you have stick with you.

xboxtravis7992
Forget the traditional TV or film media... Do any of you have any idea what small hobby produced content online is doing to spread the hobby?

Nothing wrong with lots of content producers. But you seem to suggest that the NMRA doesn't bother with such things. In fact, around 130 clinics at the national convention and other video content is available for members.  Some of it may be Youtube-ish, but much of it is put together by people with considerable skill that they want to share with others.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Thursday, November 29, 2018 9:14 PM

mlehman

Nothing wrong with lots of content producers. But you seem to suggest that the NMRA doesn't bother with such things. 

 

I actually was going to add something saying your blog you linked earlier was a perfect example of a group using online media to reach out to a larger audience. I didn't see that part of your post when I first read through the tread, and noticed it after I published my first comment. If anything my lack of knowledge of what kind of online content the NMRA might be putting out is more of a case of ignorance on my behalf, than an argument saying they aren't doing it all. I mostly just wanted to highlight that a lot of power rests in the hands of the individual hobbiest willing to share their hobby on their own terms via their own effort. Wink 

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, November 29, 2018 10:23 PM

xboxtravis7992
I mostly just wanted to highlight that a lot of power rests in the hands of the individual hobbiest willing to share their hobby on their own terms via their own effort. Wink

Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, it's one of the few arguments here that answer the corresponding question of "If you're not a NMRA member, what are you doing to promote the hobby?"

Bashing the NMRA doesn't do that, but you'd never know that from reading some of the factually incorrect rhetoric that seems to pass for a grounded argument by a few of those here.

I don't expect either organizations or individuals to take sole responsibility for the hobby's future. We all share that. And it is easier to share things now than it was 40 or 50 years ago. In the past, as a thoughtful earlier comment noted, the NMRA was one of the few organized options. Now there are many others, mostly more specialized in focus. But there remains a significant need for the NMRA's longstanding efforts to promote standards, as well as the diverse efforts made by its members across the US and the other nations that the NMRA operates in.

rrebell

Well, it has been 5 years and no Magic Of Model Railroading and no mention of it coming.

You're obviously unaware of the regular reports to the membership on this joint project between the NMRA and the California State RR Museum, some of them expressing considerable frustration over how long this is taking. It's a project that is being paid for by targetted donations as the funding for it doesn't come from dues or other regular NMRA income. The delays are almost wholly  due to the state of California's decision making process. However, these have mostly been resolved and the display wing is moving forward now. When completed, the displays will put a high quality exhibition explaining the hobby in one of the most well-attended museums in the nation. Just one more example of how, through thick and thin, the NMRA has actively pursued opportunities to expand participation in the hobby.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, November 30, 2018 2:10 AM

mlehman
Look, this stuff is published on a monthly basis.

...

it's there if you bother looking

It's not and I have looked.

mlehman
You didn't get a color-imaged magazine on slick paper in 1972.

No, but it was much better content.

mlehman
Or a vast array of services delivered electronically (the internet really isn't free, ya know?) including video content about basic and advanced topics available as part of your membership.

Not that we know how much any of this costs.  And why isn't the magazine distributed digitally over the internet - others seem to do it and save money besides.

mlehman
thousands of people every year disagree with you over the value of their membership. I'm on a fixed income and I consider it to be $75 well spent. You're free to do as you please, of course.

I am and have been a member since 1972.  As I noted above, the standards/RPs are important.  It's not the value I question, it's the lack of transparency.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by mlehman on Friday, November 30, 2018 4:00 AM

IRONROOSTER
It's not and I have looked.

If you can't find what you need, you can always drop a line to the treasurer, Frank Koch, whose contact info is here: https://www.nmra.org/frank-koch-hlm

I happened to notice that Frank's retired from P&G. So is my sister, who likely knows him based on his bio info. I could ask my sister to vouch for him one way or another, but then you'd have to start considering I'm not pulling your leg on this stuff. But if you're too frightened about asking abiout it yourself, PM specific questionsto me and I'll send them to Frank for an answer.

IRONROOSTER
And why isn't the magazine distributed digitally over the internet - others seem to do it and save money besides.

Digital editions cost money in addition to the paper edition production costs. At least so far, that's just the way the cost structure comes about. Nothing unique to that in regard to the NMRA. I believe there was a survey of some sort that found that only about 15% of the membership getting the magazine wanted to go digital. Where? I don't recall, but your recall of these facts seems more fragile than mine and you're the one that wants them, so look it up yourself if you can't bother to ask Frank about any of this.

IRONROOSTER
I am and have been a member since 1972.

I've been a member since 1970, except for about a 10 year hiatus from 75 to 85 to chase women, 4x4 trucks, and remote campsites. Yes, the info available has varied over the years. In fact, I think recent prez Charlies Getz did a pretty good job of keeping the membership advised through his column of critical details of the NMRA's finances, one that improved over past efforts... Virtually all-volunteer, things do vary from time to time, but I see no reason for throwing massive shade on the work of thousands of dedicated volunteers because someome can't bother with asking for info on something they're not informed about.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by bearman on Friday, November 30, 2018 4:09 AM

For what it is worth, the NMRA has to file IRS Form 990 and make the most recent 3 years' 990's available for public inspection.  I found a draft 990 for 2016 which document 7 employees  with total slaries and other compensation of $262,089 for an average compensation of almost $35,000 each.  Total revenues were a little over $2,000,000.  There is a lot more there but I am hardly qualified to analyze it all.  It does appear now, that there is some transparency regarding the NMRA's financial situation.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, November 30, 2018 6:30 AM

richhotrain
 
Howard Zane

This question has dogged me for years and I do not know the answer, but I'd suspect the NMRA could do more to promote our hobby. 

 

Why would it be the task of the NMRA to promote the hobby? That is not what the NMRA is set up to do.

Rich

.

Well... it is kind of what they say their mission is...

.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, November 30, 2018 6:36 AM

xboxtravis7992
Furthermore, it is the last generation in America to have had any exposure to railroad's golden years with streamlined passenger trains and common steam engines. When that group is gone I will bet the hobby does take a hit;

.

Yup, to a previous generation trains were stylish travel. To the current young generation they are Smoke/NOx belching monsters, blowing horns in the middle of the night, grafitti covered eyesores, and block intersections for hours.

.

Trains in general need a good public image/relations makeover.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by Howard Zane on Friday, November 30, 2018 8:38 AM

Well, one of you folks suggested to stop complaining and if the NMRA ain't doing the job of promotion outside of the hobby....do something. Well after I dropped my membership two decades back due to reasons other than poor promotion, I seriously toyed with starting a new organization with a catchy name. I actually had a display booth at our Timonium show and within no time felt like a hog at a Bar-Mitzvah. I was met with so many negative comments, that I took it down withn hours. So much for that idea....at least for then. I do realize that the NMRA does a decent job within the hobby after finally getting over the X2F (horn-hook)coupler standardazation bit.

Maybe now that I'm actually fully retired (no more shows), I can use my whatever writing skills even though my wife Sandy still calls me "unliterate" and write articles to hopefully be published in media outdside of model railroading. I have seen first hand the glow in "civilians" eyes when seeing a decent model railroad for the first time. Our hobby offers so much for so many...if only they knew about it and how they could turn intimidation into inspiration.

I will write these articles along with help from others and some great photos, but I cannot promise that they will be published....

Howard Zane
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Posted by Steven Otte on Friday, November 30, 2018 9:07 AM

Really? Another thread of pointless bickering about the NMRA? If you like what the NMRA is doing, join and support them. If you don't, don't, and it's no skin off your nose.

I'm not a big fan of threads that complain about people/companies/organizations that aren't on this forum to defend themselves, so I'm locking this. Now go do something useful with your time.

--
Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editor
sotte@kalmbach.com

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