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The rub of highly detailed RTR cars

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  • Member since
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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 7:28 PM

7j43k

We?

I got me 48" curves.

So it's a rare day when rolling stock won't make my curves.  

If I was forced to use 18" curves, I'd be running 40' cars on my industrial layout set in the '30's.  And enjoying it, I might add.  Let's not forget that B&O had their Docksides for a reason.  And that first diesel switcher ran on some incredibly tight curves.  With cars.

 

That's my feeling too.  Realism is important, so space dictates what kind of railroad I want to model.  I think some, if not many, are committed to modeling a certain railroad, time, or place and try to make it fit into what ever space they have.  

I see a lot of people seeking advice about their layout design on this forum who seem to take the latter approach quite often.

Different approaches.  Different compromises made.

- Douglas

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 7:19 PM

Doughless

 

 
doctorwayne

It seems to me that highly detailed models with fidelity to scale or near-to-scale details would obviously be at odds with 18" radius curves:  one attempts to match the prototype as closely as possible, the other makes no attempt to do so.

 

 

 

Which introduces and interesting philisophical question.  Since we compromise so much fidelity when we build a layout, why the fuss over high fidelity equipment?

 

 

We?

I got me 48" curves.

So it's a rare day when rolling stock won't make my curves.  

If I was forced to use 18" curves, I'd be running 40' cars on my industrial layout set in the '30's.  And enjoying it, I might add.  Let's not forget that B&O had their Docksides for a reason.  And that first diesel switcher ran on some incredibly tight curves.  With cars.

I think people who expect a 4-12-2 to take their 18" radius curves should just hold their breaths until they turn blue.

I DO feel that every car and loco should have a minimum radius (a REAL one) printed on the box it comes in.  So it hurts sales?  Well, it hurts sales, too, when customers can't run their new stuff on their railroad!

 

Ed

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 5:17 PM

doctorwayne

It seems to me that highly detailed models with fidelity to scale or near-to-scale details would obviously be at odds with 18" radius curves:  one attempts to match the prototype as closely as possible, the other makes no attempt to do so.

 

Which introduces an interesting philisophical question.  Since we compromise so much fidelity when we build a layout, why the fuss over high fidelity equipment?

- Douglas

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 4:36 PM

It seems to me that highly detailed models with fidelity to scale or near-to-scale details would obviously be at odds with 18" radius curves:  one attempts to match the prototype as closely as possible, the other makes no attempt to do so.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't run such cars on those curves, but only that it would be wise to temper your expectations, and perhaps be prepared to do some modifications.

Wayne

 

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 4:33 PM

nealknows

Peter,

While they won't tell you as that would cut into their sales, many of the new cars, especially the highly detailed ones aren't made to run on 18" radius. It's a shame, as I have a few that won't run on 22" radius. I have some tight spaces on my railroad. Passenger cars from one company recommend 24" radius and most people who I talk to have issues with them running on that radius as well. 

Yes, some small cuts here and there do help to make them run. I guess maybe we're expecting too much from some factories?

 

A disclaimer on the box would be nice. 

I don't want to use the word fraud, but its generally accepted that 50 foot cars will run on 18 inch radius curves, so taking advantage of a known assumption by not disclosing it fails the known assumption because of the details they use to get their prices, seems shady to me.

- Douglas

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 4:31 PM

HO-Velo

A heads-up for those desiring to run some of today's highly detailed RTR rolling stock thru 18 & 20" curves; be prepared for a little nip & tuck of that beautiful underside brake rigging to allow full swing of the trucks.

Offenders so far are a few 50 & 60 footers from three different Mfg.  I do appreciate  and covet the highly detailed cars and realize that Model Railroading is after all a tinkering hobby.  Not that I want any Mfg. to be caught in a fidelity gap, but am I wrong to expect that the 50' boxcar that I just plunked down $50+ for will negotiate an 18"R curve at slow speed without modification?

Regards,  Peter

 

Yup, and some 50 footers wont run on 24 inch radius curves because the trucks bump into the rigging.  

I paid $35 for a boxcar and had to remove the detail that partly made it $35.

Maybe producers should test them, instead of thinking people buy them just to display, then provide a disclaimer about what radius curve they wont run on without removing details.

- Douglas

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 4:26 PM

The Maryland and Pennsylvania had some of the sharpest mainline curves.  Their 20 degree curve was sharper than some narrow gauge lines.  In HO that's 39.7 inches.

So yes if you want highly detailed correct models including brake rigging then you will need broad curves.

18 inch curves require compromises.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:43 PM

Sometimes instead of a quick snip, see if you can tuck the offending bit up or over and CA it out of the way, so you can reverse the procedure after you move into your castle with a big train room.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by nealknows on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:52 PM

Peter,

While they won't tell you as that would cut into their sales, many of the new cars, especially the highly detailed ones aren't made to run on 18" radius. It's a shame, as I have a few that won't run on 22" radius. I have some tight spaces on my railroad. Passenger cars from one company recommend 24" radius and most people who I talk to have issues with them running on that radius as well. 

Yes, some small cuts here and there do help to make them run. I guess maybe we're expecting too much from some factories?

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:51 PM

HO-Velo
am I wrong to expect that the 50' boxcar that I just plunked down $50+ for will negotiate an 18"R curve at slow speed without modification?

Yes, sad to say.  Whatever the equivalent curve degree that would match an 18" radius in HO, I suspect only certain pieces of prototype equipment could negotiate such a curve, regardless of slow speed.  Our cars and locomotives that are built to negotiate an 18" radius curves have many compromises from scale and prototype: wheel slop, changing wheelbase, coupler swing, eliminating or altering or changing placement of details such as steps and end platforms, and the list goes on, often over and above the compromises that are already built into NMRA standards for track and wheels. 

As a rule the higher priced pieces of rolling stock are priced that way due to their higher fidelity to scale and fewer compromises.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by HO-Velo on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:47 PM

NeO6874
trucks being too tight?

Thanks for the reply, trucks aren't too tight, definitely a brake rigging issue.  On the 60' hopper clipping a small piece of the brake chain away did the trick.  

In fairness the one Mfg. I contacted about the issue offered a refund, but not as a defect and basically said that such things are part of meeting today's demand for more and better detailed rolling stock models.  Also a friendly suggestion was made about their less detailed line of models.  

I do recall seeing minimum radius recommendations for some locos and long passenger cars, but not freight cars.  Maybe such recommendations would be good for those who don't wish to modify a car, but not from a sales standpoint.

Thanks again and regards,  Peter 

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Posted by kasskaboose on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:29 PM

Are the cars from the modern era, a specific reporting mark, or something else?  Such answers can help others avoid similar issues.  I guess even expensive cars have their issues. 

Perhaps RTR does not equate to full-proof. 

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Posted by NeO6874 on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:07 PM

Seems like the short answer is "yes", given your account of their behavior.

 

That being said, is it maybe a simple issue of the trucks being too tight?

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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The rub of highly detailed RTR cars
Posted by HO-Velo on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 1:41 PM

A heads-up for those desiring to run some of today's highly detailed RTR rolling stock thru 18 & 20" curves; be prepared for a little nip & tuck of that beautiful underside brake rigging to allow full swing of the trucks.

Offenders so far are a few 50 & 60 footers from three different Mfg.  I do appreciate  and covet the highly detailed cars and realize that Model Railroading is after all a tinkering hobby.  Not that I want any Mfg. to be caught in a fidelity gap, but am I wrong to expect that the 50' boxcar that I just plunked down $50+ for will negotiate an 18"R curve at slow speed without modification?

Regards,  Peter

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