If the couplers are at the proper height, but the trip pin is hanging too low, I use regular blunt-nosed pliers, with serrated jaws, to bend the trip pin so that it matches the Kadee height gauge. One jaw is placed near the lower tip of the trip pin, the other on the top end of the trip pin, atop the coupler. I've never had to bend a trip pin to make it lower.
Wayne
Hello all,
At the Colorado Model Railroad Museum in Greely, Colorado, they have cut off all the trip pins on their couplers.
All the operators use what ever method they prefer to uncouple the cars. Some use picks, some use skewers and some use the “Hand of God” method- -physically picking up the cars.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
doctorwayne If the couplers are at the proper height, but the trip pin is hanging too low, I use regular blunt-nosed pliers, with serrated jaws, to bend the trip pin so that it matches the Kadee height gauge. One jaw is placed near the lower tip of the trip pin, the other on the top end of the trip pin, atop the coupler. I've never had to bend a trip pin to make it lower. Wayne
Been doing it that way from the early 60's.......have never damaged one. Also I never encountered one that was too high either.........
Take Care!
Frank
What Frank shows above has always worked well for me.
doctorwayne If the couplers are at the proper height, but the trip pin is hanging too low, I use regular blunt-nosed pliers, with serrated jaws, to bend the trip pin so that it matches the Kadee height gauge. Wayne
If the couplers are at the proper height, but the trip pin is hanging too low, I use regular blunt-nosed pliers, with serrated jaws, to bend the trip pin so that it matches the Kadee height gauge.
SeeYou190The Kadee trip pin gauge is not a "Go/No-Go" style, so it is not as accurate.
According to the above, matching the pin to the Kadee height guage is not considered a "go" buy the "go/no-go" rules. I do what you do Wayne, and no issues. It's a go for me.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Ditto to what Wayne and Frank do. Being delicate is critical to avoid breaking the pin. Some trip pins broke off after my move, so I thought I'd need to replace those couplers. What a reassuring thread that some remove them purposely!
Agree with what someone wrote about buying a coupler gauge. That is an invaluable tool and worth double what you pay! Note to self: remove from the track when running trains.
Not to disrupt the flow, but how often to check the trip pin?
jjdamnitsome use the “Hand of God” method- -physically picking up the cars.
I don't think I would appreciate it if some stranger's hand with cheese curled orange fingers came out of the sky and picked up my freshly painted rolling stock.
kasskabooseNot to disrupt the flow, but how often to check the trip pin
If a car derails randomly and more often than other cars, one of the things to check is coupler and trip pin height. You will be checking other things as well, so just one more.
Dave
The problem with the method of using regular serrated pliers to squeeze the trip pin is that many people can't do it properly. Some folks are just not coordinated enough to hold the car with one hand and properly place the pliers on a spring-loaded coupler.
Many times I've had to fix or replace a Kadee at my club because someone tried to adjust the trip pin but instead put the upper plier jaw on the knuckle, not on the top of the pin. The result is a bent knuckle that points to the rail (since the knuckle is weaker than the pin). The problem is that not only can it affect coupler height, but it also promotes uncoupling under tension because now the coupler face isn't perpendicular to the track. Sometimes I can "save" it by grabbing the knuckle and bending it back up, but other times the Kadee is just too damaged to use.
The straight pliers are useful in a pinch (hey, I made a funny!), but I would recommend the Kadee benders; they are a wise investment. Also, remember to choke up as much as possible when using them. You don't want to bend the very end of the trip pin up like a candy cane, you want to adjust the height while keeping the pin end roughly level with the track. This means put the bending jaws as close to the coupler bottom as possible.
SeeYou190 Make a simple "go/no-go" gauge from two pieces of 0.020" scrap styrene. . If the trip cleares the first step but snags on the second you know it is adjusted between 0.020" and 0.040" above the rail head, and you will never have a problem.
Make a simple "go/no-go" gauge from two pieces of 0.020" scrap styrene.
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If the trip cleares the first step but snags on the second you know it is adjusted between 0.020" and 0.040" above the rail head, and you will never have a problem.
The Kadee trip pin gauge is not a "Go/No-Go" style, so it is not as accurate.
A go/no-go gauge is used for checking tolerances. If a part is specified to be 1" diameter +/- .005", then the go gauge will be 1.005" diameter, and the no-go gauge will be .995" diameter.
But Kadee does not specify a +/- tolerance for trip pin clearance. They specify a 1/32" minimum clearance only. They never say it CAN'T be 1/16", though it clearly shouldn't be because the magnetic action won't be as strong.
So a go/no-go gauge would not be used, only a go gauge. And that gauge, according to Kadee's specifications, should be .031" (1/32") thick, and sitting on the rail tops.
The .020"/.040" gauges will accept pin clearances below the .031" specification (.025", for example), and are therefore incorrect. A piece of .030" styrene would likely be an adequate choice for a gauge.
Ed
maxman jjdamnit some use the “Hand of God” method- -physically picking up the cars.
jjdamnit some use the “Hand of God” method- -physically picking up the cars.
That sounds like a club setting? Twenty lashes with a wet noodle to the dirty sod who handles trains with cheese curl orange fingers! Yuk!
I prefer to handle my own rolling stock with clean hands.
Paul3 The problem with the method of using regular serrated pliers to squeeze the trip pin is that many people can't do it properly. Some folks are just not coordinated enough to hold the car with one hand and properly place the pliers on a spring-loaded coupler.
True. Back when I started using the needle nose pliers to bend my trip pins, I was a starving college student and buying a special Kadee tool would have been something I deemed an unnecessary luxury, so naturally I developed the skill to gently squeeze the trip pin to bend it just a hair up. Occasionally if I wasn't holding it right, it would pop out of the pliers but with time that became rare.
Many times I've had to fix or replace a Kadee at my club because someone tried to adjust the trip pin but instead put the upper plier jaw on the knuckle, not on the top of the pin. The result is a bent knuckle
It always seemed "common sense" to me to place the bottom and top of the pin against the pliers but as you noted, common sense is sometimes missing.
Maybe one of these days I'll finally buy the proper Kadee benders, but I've managed to get the technique of the needle nose pretty well.
riogrande5761,As you noted, sometimes the pliers slip off. If it grabs the knuckle while you're still squeezing, it'll bend it.
The Kadee pliers are faster and more controllable. I've seen some really bent up trip pins where they turn them into fish hooks from squeezing too hard...which can become a problem when coupling to a snowplow-equipped diesel.
Beware of knock-offs of the Kadee pliers. Some are better than others. Xuron markets pliers that have the reverse action, to open up the trip pin curve instead of closing it down. Our club car fleet had a problem with a former member who "Dilberted" trip pins so they would curve up like Dilbert's necktie.
If you search for "Bob-Mac Gage Company," they offer an excellent insulated go-no go gage to check coupler height and trip pin positioning.
Many times I find that an out of position coupler is due to slop in the coupler box -- generally they have too much top-to-bottom space and the coupler droops. I use either thin (.005-.010") styrene to shim the opening so the coupler sits level. It's also nice to adjust this without monkeying with the car's ride height.
Lately, I've been saving shiny paper and plastic offcuts to use as shims.
One of our club members has drawn and laser cut shims that fit precisely inside the bottom of the coupler box to take up the excessive travel.
We keep the trip pins because they are the easiest way available to check for correct side-to-side swing and coupler centering. On an operating layout with a lot of switching, this is essential.
riogrande5761The only "go no-go" I've ever heard of is a point on the runway airplane needs to abort a take off or proceed.
A "Go/No-Go" Gauge has a step and two different thicknesses. The most common application is for valve stem clearance adjustment.
If you need to set a valve to 0.012", you would use a 0.011"/0.013" go/no-go gauge. If the 0.011" is loose (go), and the 0.013" will not clear (no-go), your clearance is a nominal 0.012" check.
The gauge I made to check couple trip pin height is 0.020"/0.040", so I am 100% sure that all of my couplet trip pins are between 0.020" and 0.040" above the rail head. I have found this works perfectly with #308 under-the-tie uncouplers.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
"A go/no-go gauge is an integral part of the quality process that is used in the manufacturing industry to ensure interchangeability of parts between processes and between different manufacturers."
I think sometimes the cost of the KD tool prohibits its use. Another tool that works just as well and looks pretty much the same as the KD tool can be found in a Michael's or Hobby Lobby in the jewelry making supplies section. The tool is used for bending wire etc. I have used one for trip pins with good success and it is also invaluable for making handrail bends and forming the top curve on caboose ladders.
BroadwayLion Da heck with couplers, ... LION uses DRAWBARS
Da heck with couplers, ... LION uses DRAWBARS
Most people aren't running subway trains with fixed sets that never change. Your example isn't really that useful...
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Use of the Kadee copper sheet coupler spring that comes with the #5 coupler for the draft gear box, just about will eliminate coupler droop.......on all the ones I have anyway. Not a big fan of whisker couplers. I still use #5's, and many 1/4 shank couplers for a closer car to car fit. Tightest curve I have is a 32''.....not a problem......I install all My couplers with a little bit of Labelle #134 Teflon lubricating powder....works like a charm.
zstripeNot a big fan of whisker couplers.
I have found that the whisker couplers work amazing in Kadee's own coupler boxes, especially the #232 snap together black box.
In most manufacturer's boxes the #5 or 20 series seem to work best.
zstripe Not a big fan of whisker couplers.
Not a big fan of whisker couplers.
Rich
Alton Junction
CNSFSo everyone's talking about bending the trip pins and wagging fingers at you for not installing Kadee's "right", and only a couple of posters have identified the real problem, which is excessive height inside the coupler box that allows the coupler to droop, and recommended shims.
The inside height of a Kadee 242 box is .075", and a Kadee 158 is .058" thick. Allowing .002" for clearance, that means you can only shim .015".
I have just been doing coupler height correction on freight cars and locomotives. Many of those have a much greater correction need than .015".
While shimming can be a good solution for some coupler height problems, it cannot be the only one. As I have been finding out.
Thus I must continue to wag my finger at you!
richhotrain zstripe Not a big fan of whisker couplers. How come, Frank? Rich
How come, Frank?
I believe it's possibly a personnal thing.....but it seems to Me that the #5 when using the sheet spring, produce's a tighter fit.....no slop in shank area.
oldline1KD's have been around forever and when properly adjusted provide flawless service. They aren't generally open the package, slap them in and go run though. They need to be installed in the coupler boxes correctly and the trip poins often need teaking.
oldline1,
I've used Kadee #58/#158 couplers exclusively on my rolling stock (150+ pieces) and I think I've bent the trip pin up on maybe 4 or 5 of them? For me that's pretty much tweak-free operation.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Agreeing with Tom, I haven't bent a Kadee pin in years. But I do spend a whole lot of time getting coupler height right. It frequently involves a milling machine.
Worse case scenario, you can tell the pins to quit tripping on the ties!!!
I'm so not funny.
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
I really suspect though.....If the OP has the trip pins on the coupler hitting the ties, that there is a lot more going on then just the length of the trip pins.........
7j43k Agreeing with Tom, I haven't bent a Kadee pin in years. But I do spend a whole lot of time getting coupler height right. It frequently involves a milling machine. Ed
You may be right in that Kadee sells the trip pins adjusted correctly out of the box so that if the coupler matches the Kadee height gauge, the trip pin should not interfere with with trackwork.
I like that little extra margin so have made a practice when building kits to bend the trip pin up just a bit more than "stock". Why? because even though I do my best to match couplers to the height gauge, something might change while the car is in operation and that bit of extra margin will hopefully keep the trip pin up enough that even if the coupler droops, it will still clear track work. I have found that occasionally couplers I had checked against the height gauge as a match, later on dropped a bit for some reason. I have put a lot of effort also into getthing coupler height right, but as the old saying goes. "stuff happens".
7j43kSo a go/no-go gauge would not be used, only a go gauge. And that gauge, according to Kadee's specifications, should be .031" (1/32") thick, and sitting on the rail tops. The .020"/.040" gauges will accept pin clearances below the .031" specification (.025", for example), and are therefore incorrect. A piece of .030" styrene would likely be an adequate choice for a gauge.
I think we are really splitting hairs on this one.
The Kadee specification is a nominal measurement of about 0.030", and I accepted a tolerance of +/- 0.010", so I made my 0.020"/0.040" step go/no-go gauge which verifies that all my trip pins are in between 0.020" and 0.040" with 0.030" being the theoretical median.
This has resulted in perfect performance with my magnetic uncoupler of choice.
Also, making precision adjustments to trip pin height, even using the Kadee trip pin pliers is very difficult. Getting them to within 0.010" is possible with acceptable frustration.
If you can adjust your pins to get slight drag on a 0.031" shim, well, more power to you.
Mine are all consistent and good enough for perfect operation, and that is all I need.
I also made my own coupler height gauge with a tolerance of +/- 0.010", and it also helped me achieve perfect operation.
SeeYou190 7j43k So a go/no-go gauge would not be used, only a go gauge. And that gauge, according to Kadee's specifications, should be .031" (1/32") thick, and sitting on the rail tops. The .020"/.040" gauges will accept pin clearances below the .031" specification (.025", for example), and are therefore incorrect. A piece of .030" styrene would likely be an adequate choice for a gauge. I think we are really splitting hairs on this one.
7j43k So a go/no-go gauge would not be used, only a go gauge. And that gauge, according to Kadee's specifications, should be .031" (1/32") thick, and sitting on the rail tops. The .020"/.040" gauges will accept pin clearances below the .031" specification (.025", for example), and are therefore incorrect. A piece of .030" styrene would likely be an adequate choice for a gauge.
Yeah, probably. What we're all after is reliable coupling. How it's done is, in a way, secondary. Your system works for you, mine for me.
The Kadee specification is a nominal measurement of about 0.030"
7j43kI don't think so. Currently, a Kadee code 83 magnet is .100" high. It will project above the rail top by .017". Back when they magnets were introduced, Kadee said they projected above the rails by 1/64" (.016"). And the coupler pin to rail top was specified as 1/32". Giving an operating clearance of 1/64". Not a lot, for most modelers. But enough.
OK, that makes sense, and I think it makes all the difference.
I only use Kadee #308 or #309 under the tie uncouplers, so I do not need to contend with any magnets above the rails.
If I had a magnets mounted 0.017" above the rails, then a trip pin height of 0.020" would not give me comfortable clearance for operation.