Don't know about your area but I have noticed in California the gradual decline in the number of train clubs esspecialy ones located on fair property. Just learned of Napa's imminent demise.
Just like home town hobby shops, becoming a thing of the past.
I'm sure in large part it involves the issues in the book "Bowlng Alone". People of recent generations don't join groups or organizations the way prior generations did.
Keep in mind too that back at the start of the hobby O scale was the most popular size, so even a simple layout was too large for many houses (let alone apartments). Banding together to buy or rent a large space for a layout made sense. Also, clubs often pooled money to buy expensive machine tools like drill presses that were needed to build railroad models (especially locomotives) back then.
There is something to that people no longer congregate idea. Kids spend their lives with their nose in their smart phones. I maintain it is "hanging out at the mall" without going to the mall. Restaurants are suffering, sit-down ones anyway. My generation saw dining out as a social event, today, four young people sit at a restaurant table and look at their phones, they don't interact. The restaurant is no longer a destination, just a place to sit.
I can believe this same effect leaks into model railroading. You have to commit your time to others in advance, you have to go someplace and not be instantly accessible to your electronic friends.
I think there are other factors at work as well. One is that clubs that rent their space are seeing rents go up, or the sorts of older buildings with low rent are being torn down for other development.
Second, as club layouts age (even if the membership refreshes and does not age too) sometimes the older era of electronics and signaling does them in. I know at least one club that basically shut down because it was DC, the members were DCC for their home layouts, and nobody wanted (or knew how) to maintain the rather intricate progressive cab control and signaling that a long ago member had installed, nor convert the old layout to DCC.
A corollary - many older club layouts do not have walk around control but a central panel, sometimes elevated in an "overlook." This has an impact on what kind of operations take place, too.
Third and here I want to tread lightly, the growing influence of prototype modeling is not always compatible with putting together a diverse group into a club, since so many club layouts tend or tended to be "generic Western" or "generic Midwestern."
Dave Nelson
And here in the east clubs tend to be generic "Eastern". Interesting that the op mentioned clubs on fair grounds. Seems like the worst place for club to me, no common in this part of tbe world.
But yes, clubs seem to be on the decline, sometimes in favor of round robin groups that don't require buildings, rent, power bills, etc.
But, around here, in the land of basements, medium to large home layouts are common, and formal or informal, guys get together to help build these basement empires.
Sheldon
I'm president of the local RR club. We started the club in 1981. I'm the last founding member of the club left. We have lost at least 10 to death, and probably twice that many that moved away, or just quit for whatever reason. Right now we only have one member that is under 60. There are 2 of us that do most of the construction and repairs, if either one of us leaves, I don't expect the club to last very long. It's sad that there aren't more young ones interested.
Joe
When John Allen built his Gorre and Daphetid at around 800 square feet, it was considered a very large home layout.Basements and home layouts have gotten bigger. I personally know a number of modelers with home layouts over 1000 square feet. When you can build as big a railroad as you like, exactly as you like, often with the help of friends, but don't have to argue about anything, why join a club?
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Other major issues that I didn't see mentioned are:
Insurance costs for the club. Most "public" places now need, at minimum, a $1million (most places higher) insurance policy, for injuries, accidents, etc... This is very pricey. (Thank all the ambulance chasers and the legal system of "it's someone else's fault" for this.)
Time. Clubs take lots of time, and most of us are busy, with jobs, family, home responsibility, etc...
Cost. Most clubs charge a annual fee, due to rent, insurance mentioned above, and other associated costs. A lot of us are on tight budgets.
Location. A lot of us, myself included, don't have that close of a club. (And, some that are close enough, are located in a poor location otherwise. My area, we have a single club, but it's meeting location is in a {more than I would like} dangerous {read "not as safe"} area, so I would not be going there. Especially after dark, which is when the club meets.)
These issues, plus the ones mentioned in other posts above, are the reasons that most clubs are having issues.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
There is a club in my area that I choose not to join because the President was talking about testing new member skill levels and another reason I prefer not to mention.
Joe Staten Island West
-Jon
I never wanted to join a club. I've spent most of my life living in the country, or very small communities, and the time and effort spent on getting to a club and getting back doesn't seem worth it. My time is my time, and my hobbies are something I do for my satisfaction, and sharing experiences with others interested in the same hobbies, or interest, is now easily done with social media, such as this forum.
I have never been an "operating sessions" type modeler, except operating my own trains.
Actually, the forums I participate in are my "club", and that's as close to joining a club that I will ever get.
I remember some family friends we visited every once and a while, I was the same age as their two boys, and they joined a huge slot car club. I'd go there with them and hang out. Once the current/founding generation of the clubs members had real cars, and a life, the club quickly closed down.
Mike.
My You Tube
I don't like to talk about the local club.
.
However... they are going strong and their layouts are beautiful. No problems with any of the clubs on Florida's Gulf Coast.
Maybe you just need a steady stream of new retirees that no longer have basements.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I was looking into joining a local club. I visited it and found that it had a layout about half of what my home layout is and ran DC only. When I went to fill out an application, just to see if they would accept me, I found out that they wanted to do abckground check on me. Not a problem, but I was not going back to work for the US Government and they had no business doing a background check. Kiss off that club.
Enzoamps My generation saw dining out as a social event, today, four young e sit at a restaurant table and look at their phones, they don't interact. The restaurant is no longer a destination, just a place to sit.
My generation saw dining out as a social event, today, four young e sit at a restaurant table and look at their phones, they don't interact. The restaurant is no longer a destination, just a place to sit.
A little off subject but.....I was watching a Sienfeld rerun and my wife pointed out that this program, Happy Days, and ones like it could not be produced today becauce todays youth don't talk to each other as in the past.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
In my area it is because fairgrounds changed their name to expo centers and are trying to attract major events but most have failed at that. The Napa one is caused because of a master plan for the grounds that will only happen if silicon valley moves up there. In fact because of the fires (which didn't touch Napa directly) people are staying away in droves, add the earthquake a few years ago and a few other factors and they are begging for visitors.
LakeErieExpress@josephbw, what part of Ohio are you from? (I've been looking for a club in the Akron area for a good long while )
The club is in Greenville. West central OH, Darke Co., close to the IN line.
Rick, are you speaking of the MSMRC? That's my club and we have hit on hard times due to a ownership change in the building the club is in and the new owners have upped the rent that we are going to have to do open houses and up the dues to say afloat... I am a member of two clubs right now the first I joined is the Greater Baton Rouge Model Railroaders which is in Jackson, LA and they have scales G, O, HO, and N so space is limited... operations there is more laid back with a continuous running oval layout in HO so it's nice to go and watch the trains go round... my second club is the Midsouth Model Railroad Club in Baton Rouge, LA and is strictly HO, the layout is partially double decked and operations there are more structured... one thing the GBRMRC is that they meet every other Saturday in the morning and the area is a rural town so it's pretty safe... MSMRC is in the "not so great" part of town and they meet every Tuesday in the evening but luckily the club is on a side street way in the back so noone really knows we're back there...
Either way younger members like myself are few and far between...
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
rrebell In my area it is because fairgrounds changed their name to expo centers and are trying to attract major events but most have failed at that. The Napa one is caused because of a master plan for the grounds that will only happen if silicon valley moves up there. In fact because of the fires (which didn't touch Napa directly) people are staying away in droves, add the earthquake a few years ago and a few other factors and they are begging for visitors.
Not sure I understand what sort of places these are that you are calling fair grounds or expo centers? And how/why would they be a good home for a model railroard club?
Here in the east, counties and states own fair grounds that are a combination of open fields/lots for outdoor events, large buildings for indoor events, and farm/live stock facilities for farm/agriculture events.
Most state/county fairs here in the east are agriculture centered, with 4H, live stock competitions, as well as crafts, and carnival rides and midways.
Many fairgrounds also have horse racing tracks.
These events typically last ten days to two weeks every year.
The rest of the year the property is rented out, like for train shows, craft shows, home improvement shows, RV or boat shows, Christmas tree festival, etc, etc, etc.
Few if any have the kinds of spaces that they would want, or that would be suitable, to lease long term to a model railroad club?
And then there is access and security - these places are staffed, but locked up with fences and gates at night?
But what do I know, I've never been that far "out west"?
Many of the longest lasting clubs here in the east own the property and building they are in, or have secured very long term leases.
Again, for many the expense and politics of clubs has out lived its usefulness.
I once belonged to a well know club who has been on the cover or MR a number of times.
I also was once very active in a long standing local round robin group - both filled with great people. But I actually felt it was often distracting me from working on my own layout and trains...........
Out in the west many a club is or was located on fair grounds, the Napa club has been there for almost 50 years in an old qunset hut. Yes the county owns them but they have a board of directors.
Trainfest, in Milwaukee is at State Fair Park, in a big building called Wisconsin Expo Center. During the state fair, this building is full of exhibits, from agricultrial to models of the state DOT's proposed projects, that would affect the Milwaukee metro area.
The property is also filled with various cow barns, pig barns, etc, and a race track, and huge grandstand.
Although Trainfest is a once a year event, I can understand how a club, being railroad, cars, horses, or what ever, could rent or lease a space in a county or state fair park.
I believe the county I live in, Walworth County, in SE Wisconsin, leases out a building or two, at the Walworth County Fair grounds.
They never really were like the county fairgrounds we have here in the East, the always were more of expo centers (modern usage slightly different - we're talking Exposition Centers, as in International Expositions, more like mini World's Fairs than the county fair), with plenty of permanent buildings and things open all the time, not just during 'fair season'.
Our fairgrounds indeed are not exactly ideal places to locate a model railroad club. However, youmust admit that if the Maryland State Fair ever went away and the fairgrounds wasn;t being used, you could build one heck of a model railroad if you had use of the entire Cow Palace building.
As for clubs being generic - there are two around here, one being the RCT&HS modular group with no permanent home, that are quite specific in their modeling. RCT&HS is of course purely Reading. Various modules accurately depict locations on various Reading lines. The other big one is the Lehigh & Keystone Valley in Bethlehem. They have more than one prototype, but that's because the layout depicts ALL of the railroads from the area, so those different roads run on their own tracks. The accuracy of the track plan is such that railroad employees can recognize locations simply by the arrangement of tracks. Very much not the "Generic Eastern". There are others around here that indeed are fairly generic, two that are almost living museums, at least in their O scale layouts - the Reading Society of Model Engineers has equipment and scenes dating from the 1930's running alongside the very latest scale O stuff. It's more a museum of model railroading going bac to the group's original days when it ran along the fence in the back yard of one of the founders. So we have all types around here, everything from accurate reproductions of the prototype all the way to complete fantasy.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
mbinsewi I believe the county I live in, Walworth County, in SE Wisconsin, leases out a building or two, at the Walworth County Fair grounds. Mike.
Holy crap, I grew up in Lake Geneva.
Randy, sure the cow palace would make for an incredable layout. But the big problem with clubs is loosing the lease.
That is why Paul Mallery and company set up The Model Railroad Club, in Union NJ, in a way that would insure a perpetual location and operation as long as interested people kept it going.
In my view, without such safeguards, fixed location clubs are risky at best.
One of the oldest, if not the oldest clubs in the US, is deep in the business district of downtown Baltimore:
http://www.modelengineers.com/
I don't know the terms of their property situation, but they have been there all of my 60 years.
Sorry to hear about the Napa club, will miss seeing their layout. Hope they can find a new home.
Sometimes a move can be beneficial, even if forced. Some years ago the Vallejo Model R/R club got booted from their decades old home at the Solano County fairgrounds due to a redevelopment plan that never came to fruition. The club now resides in the nearby town of Crockett with a bigger and better layout, not to mention nearly double the membership.
Regards, Peter
No our expo centers are just a change of name with grandios plans for the future which will never happen. Fairs of old are dying out here, not even worth going to and the concerts that used to be free all cost and not cheap.
I have been thinking about someday buying a old brick warehouse and starting club but I the key would be getting members... Well one can dream...
I think one area not being discussed is the club members themselves. I don’t really care about the layout that much but want to enjoy the fellowship of people into what I am into. My local club is not a friendly bunch at all. They don’t have a bunch of benefits either very few to no workshops/how to’s. It seems like when they do they are just repeats of previous one The first time I walked into the building I was in there 30 minutes and not a single member approached I left without a single word being spoken
I have ave run across some friendly guys over the years but more elitist who would rather tell you about themselves thaN listen to anyone. I like my layout but certainly wished some things were different and know areas that can be improved, but apparently they all have pperfect layouts and are superior enough to lecture everyone else
That is my experience only and not meant to throw a blanket over all clubs and their members. I met some great folks at trainfest
rrebell Don't know about your area but I have noticed in California the gradual decline in the number of train clubs esspecialy ones located on fair property. Just learned of Napa's imminent demise.
Roseville Roundhouse is still alive and well at the Placer County Fairgrounds. We are in fact an anchor in the new remodel. What happened in Napa is a shame, but we're showing the error of the Napa Expo's ways.