Left Coast Rail Our friends at the Napa Valley Railroad Historical Society are continuing to keep up the good fight.
Our friends at the Napa Valley Railroad Historical Society are continuing to keep up the good fight.
Your link is worthless.............
It shows up with the texts redacted for those of us who do not subscribe.
Guess what, I'm not subscribing or signing. I live on the other side of the country and have no dog in this fight.
I've seen too many clubs loose their space - property ownship is the only answer.
The community at large, who pays for public facilities, is not obligated to provide us with a place for our hobby.
And personally, if I was interested in being in a club, I would not want to be in one that was "obligated" to some government agency to be open to the puiblic.
Sheldon
I recently was asked to sit in on a meeting of a dog club that has gone from a membership that usually ran well in excess of 500 members to less than a hundred with only about 40 active participants.
Dog clubs use to run local, regional and national shows and the members would take on the challenge to put these shows on. A five day show could be attended by hundreds of people and their dogs from all over the world if it was a large show. If dog clubs didn't put on the shows, there weren't shows.
Then the professionals started taking over with big money sponsors like big pet food companies and other dog/pet related corporations. The dog club(s) got pushed out of the dog show business, though not completely (yet) they still run some very small local events.
The result is the socialization still goes on at the shows, however, participation in all other events has collapsed, both social and educational events have dwindled because the money raised to fund these events came from the club putting on dog shows.
The club will likely fold within the next few years and has about $75,000.00 in the bank that will be distributed to charity as the constitution states.
Train shows over the years seem to be fewer but larger. I don't mind this as I prefer going to a couple of large shows over several small ones through the year. Are the professional show people taking over the MRR show scene to the point that a club has no reason or ability to put on an event? If so input into the hobby from everyday modelers may be in jeopardy. NMRA may even become less relevant when it comes to giving us the standards that makes things work so much better. Did train clubs that put on shows use the revenue from these shows to help fund its existence?
Just thinking out loud.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
First off, how much do you all know about the real numbers. Lets use Amazon's online shopping buisness. Did you know that they have only made a profit in one buisness quarter. It is said they can turn on the faucet of profits at any time, but can they. E-retail can make money or lose money depending on many factors but if you take into account all the things that make up the sale, the numbers are not as great as you would expect when you consider the only thing that maters is the $ that go into your pocket in the end. Model railroading accually has a better chance of making a profit on e-retail than clothing when you relize 30% of those sales are returned, not able to be resold as new, shipping including return shipping paid by vender, advertizing, insurance etc. etc.
I was at the Scale Rails of Southwest Florida train show the past weekend, and I am glad to see my old club is still going strong, even stronger than before.
.
They have reliable members, own their own building, and have a beautiful layout.
I also found out the Sarasota Model Railroad Club, which I thought died, is still going stong as well. They changed their name to "Real Rail", and became a public charity, and had to restructure, but it is still the same group.
All good news.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
caldreamer I was looking into joining a local club. I visited it and found that it had a layout about half of what my home layout is and ran DC only. When I went to fill out an application, just to see if they would accept me, I found out that they wanted to do abckground check on me. Not a problem, but I was not going back to work for the US Government and they had no business doing a background check. Kiss off that club.
I was looking into joining a local club. I visited it and found that it had a layout about half of what my home layout is and ran DC only. When I went to fill out an application, just to see if they would accept me, I found out that they wanted to do abckground check on me. Not a problem, but I was not going back to work for the US Government and they had no business doing a background check. Kiss off that club.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Paul3We added about 60' of benchwork and a major yard & terminal with over 100 switches installed.
Paul,I looked at the photos of your club and if that big old yard is more then stagging I would gladly pay $32.00 a month to switch that yard.
I can't remember but,isn't your club DCC?
Even my 1'x12' ISL its DCC just for more realistic locomotive performance and sound.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Brakie,The large yard area called Cedar Hill is actually 5 yards; 2 passenger and 3 freight. The passenger yards are the terminal itself (8 stub tracks and 2 through tracks; max stub is 16') and the coach yard (5 tracks; max 12'). We also have a 6 track REA facility (3 express cars long each).On the freight side, we have the A/D yard (5 tracks; max 20'), a double-ended yard (8 tracks; max 10') and a stub yard (6 tracks; max 13'). Plus the engine terminal (15 turntable tracks), car shop, and steam & diesel shop (with a transfer table).
We have 3 business sidings and 8 railroad sidings (coal, ash, sand, auction house, diesel, machine shop, roundhouse stores, engine shop stores). Also, there is an ice rack, 2-track TOFC ramp, RIP track, and 2 team tracks.
It's a good place to switch. And yep, we're DCC. Have been since 1999.
As probably one of the younger guys on here (24), I think I can throw out a few ideas of what makes the traditional club scene not quite that appealing to my generation. Yes, we do spend a lot on "screen time." But a large portion of that can be "hobby time" too. We have a local railfan group that is very active in communicating via Facebook. We message each other a lot, and hold somewhat regular meet ups in the real world. Our last trip in November a large group of us went out to Milford, UT for an overnighter to railfan the old LASL. This Saturday we are heading up to Echo Canyon to watch the Evanston Subdivision. In person, we talk face to face; a lot! (Probably very loudly too! ) We wouldn't have gotten together as a social group if it weren't for social media, and our online time does eventually lead into real world face to face interaction. I was a very lone wolf railfan convinved I was doing the hobby alone in my area, before Facebook started to connect me to other local railfans. Mind you this "club" of ours is very informal, very relaxed, and free spirited. Not a cent of membership dues, no list of pledges or club rules. Just a group of guys getting together to have fun. This social group has got me into operating sessions, railfanning local sites, visiting train shows together, helping on small restoration projects, etc. Now what does a formal club offer? Well, it's fees would take from my wallet; taking away money I could be spending on other parts of the hobby. Older members probably wouldn't be active on social media, so outside club events it might be a bit harder to get a hold of them if I didn't know their phone number, and even then phone calls rely on calling at a moment their schedule is open or a good answering machine to record what I wanted to say (I do phone calls as part of my job, and know very well just how many people in this world do not answer their phone these days). Not to mention, a lot of those older members aren't long for this world... here one day, gone the next; taking their knowledge with them to the grave before new members of the club get the chance to glean from it.
Then there is that feeling most club layouts are less of a cohesive theme, and more of a mishmash of themes and ideas. I could either head to a private layout with realistic operations in a coherent environment, or I could go to a club and let the steam train hauling a double stack freight; run in endless circles around mountains, snow, beaches, cities, circuses, etc... The information age has made prototype practices all the more accessible for a younger fan, so it is hard to see some of the looser takes on freelancing as serious anymore. I know the adage "my railroad my rules" still rules many clubs, but when that railroad can't be understood by a casual onlooker it comes across more as a giant toy train set. This ain't the age of "a Lionel around every boy's Christmas tree" anymore, and most young modelers are looking instead at the proto-freelanced layouts that grace the covers of the magazine.
Fortunately, almost all the local clubs are DCC now, so if I did join I wouldn't be to worried about that as an issue! Ultimately, if I do someday join a club; it will be the one at the museum nearest to me. That way, I can help out at the museum, and get to run some trains while at it; and that desire has more to do with my memories as a kid at the museum than the club layout itself.
xboxtravis7992We wouldn't have gotten together as a social group if it weren't for social media, and our online time does eventually lead into real world face to face interaction
I am twice your age, but I can tell you that social media is very important to another group of hobbiests... Wargamers & Boardgamers.
We are all older guys, but without social media we would not have as great a hobby.
So why does social media not help model railroaders and clubs? Well my theory is that wargaming is a required social hobby. You simply cannot do it alone. You need an opponent, so you must meet other people. We find each other on social media now. You are correct. Social media does lead to face to face interactions in the real world.
Model Railroading can easily be enjoyed alone. This is how I like it, and why I am not a part of the local club.
xboxtravis7992 As probably one of the younger guys on here (24), I think I can throw out a few ideas of what makes the traditional club scene not quite that appealing to my generation. Yes, we do spend a lot on "screen time." But a large portion of that can be "hobby time" too. We have a local railfan group that is very active in communicating via Facebook. We message each other a lot, and hold somewhat regular meet ups in the real world. Our last trip in November a large group of us went out to Milford, UT for an overnighter to railfan the old LASL. This Saturday we are heading up to Echo Canyon to watch the Evanston Subdivision. In person, we talk face to face; a lot! (Probably very loudly too! ) We wouldn't have gotten together as a social group if it weren't for social media, and our online time does eventually lead into real world face to face interaction. I was a very lone wolf railfan convinved I was doing the hobby alone in my area, before Facebook started to connect me to other local railfans. Mind you this "club" of ours is very informal, very relaxed, and free spirited. Not a cent of membership dues, no list of pledges or club rules. Just a group of guys getting together to have fun. This social group has got me into operating sessions, railfanning local sites, visiting train shows together, helping on small restoration projects, etc. Now what does a formal club offer? Well, it's fees would take from my wallet; taking away money I could be spending on other parts of the hobby. Older members probably wouldn't be active on social media, so outside club events it might be a bit harder to get a hold of them if I didn't know their phone number, and even then phone calls rely on calling at a moment their schedule is open or a good answering machine to record what I wanted to say (I do phone calls as part of my job, and know very well just how many people in this world do not answer their phone these days). Not to mention, a lot of those older members aren't long for this world... here one day, gone the next; taking their knowledge with them to the grave before new members of the club get the chance to glean from it. Then there is that feeling most club layouts are less of a cohesive theme, and more of a mishmash of themes and ideas. I could either head to a private layout with realistic operations in a coherent environment, or I could go to a club and let the steam train hauling a double stack freight; run in endless circles around mountains, snow, beaches, cities, circuses, etc... The information age has made prototype practices all the more accessible for a younger fan, so it is hard to see some of the looser takes on freelancing as serious anymore. I know the adage "my railroad my rules" still rules many clubs, but when that railroad can't be understood by a casual onlooker it comes across more as a giant toy train set. This ain't the age of "a Lionel around every boy's Christmas tree" anymore, and most young modelers are looking instead at the proto-freelanced layouts that grace the covers of the magazine. Fortunately, almost all the local clubs are DCC now, so if I did join I wouldn't be to worried about that as an issue! Ultimately, if I do someday join a club; it will be the one at the museum nearest to me. That way, I can help out at the museum, and get to run some trains while at it; and that desire has more to do with my memories as a kid at the museum than the club layout itself.
Well, on many of those points I have to agree with you, and I am 60.........and I'm not interested in being in the club with the old geezers either.......
But Kevin is right, model railroading does not have to be a social hobby.
Or, it can be a hobby with limited "social" aspects.
I have been active in this hobby since age 12, twice as long as you have been on this planet. I have belonged to traditional clubs, and very casual round robin groups, many in this hobby here in the Mid Atlantic may recognize my name.
But the social aspects of the hobby are its least important aspect to me.
I have been a member of ther NMRA since 1969, never been to a function, not really interested.
Social Media........I was using computers before your were born, heck I was programing them to run factories before you were born. But I have no interest in Facebook (I will however receive and respond to a text message or Email you might send).
Your rail fan activities, of no interest to me. I'm really not interested in modern/current railroading to any great degree. I live and work close to the Northeast rail corridor here in the Mid Atlantic, I see plenty of modern trains by accident without spending presious time waiting by the tracks.
Currently I have withdrawn from most social aspects of the hobby and I specificly limit my time on this forum, and it is the my only online activity in this hobby.
It is not that I dislike people (well not all people), but one must decide how one is going to spend their time.
In my case, building more models, running trains, or socializing?
Now, here is the big question for you Mr 24 year old? Do you like to build models? or are you the RTR type?
There is no wrong answer, but it does partly define how people approach the hobby and how they spend their resources, time especially.
I like to build models, more than I like talking to people, so I balance things accordingly. And I 'm not really interested in that new model you bought, I'm more interested in what you might have built. I'm one of those comfortable baby boomers who can buy most anything within reason I desire.......
And my modeling choices are not driven by any need to fit in a group. I model 1954, three years before I was even born. So much for relating to you who are obviously interested in the trains of YOUR youth/young adulthood. For me that would have been the 1970's, I have no interest in that era of rusty junk.
I'm interested in the history of trains, and history in general......
I don't use DCC, not that I'm tech shy (I have logged many hours running DCC on the layouts of others), it simply does not meet my needs and it costs too much (I have 135 locos that would need decoders....) I don't like onboard sound, it sounds like crap to my HiFi speaker building, 1700 vinyl record listening ears.
Instead I have my own control system with advanced cab control, radio throttles, one button turnout route control, working interlockings, detection, signals, CTC, ATC, and more.
I am a protolance modeler who also models three prototype railroads which interchange with my fictional ATLANTIC CENTRAL. How much do you know about the B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND in 1954? Bring it on.........in addition to the "information age", I have a bunch of those things called books, including nearly every MR and RMC from the last 70-80 years.
So you are right, we would not have much in common. So much for the glorified Christmas Garden......
Others are different and will make different choices. Model trains is big tent and not everyone with be interested in what everyone else is doing...........
xboxtravis7992As probably one of the younger guys on here (24), I think I can throw out a few ideas of what makes the traditional club scene not quite that appealing to my generation.
Hello X Box Travis,
I just re-read my response to your post, and I don't think my tone came through as I intended.
I wanted it to sound like I agreed with you that social media is important for bringing people together with similar interests that would otherwise have a difficult time finding each other.
My second point was that many model railroaders do not want to meet like minded people and meet socially.
I am in both camps, weird huh? I love to meet new wargamers and boardgamers of all ages and hang out, but I have a very hard time getting along with model railroaders.
The two groups are very different from one another, and I really cannot put a point on as to why.
I like Sheldon but then I tend to like people who speak their minds weather I agree or not as long as they are honest about it. I am very social if given the chance but don't do facebook, my daughter keeps me up to date on family things there.
I being a younger member of this forum think a broad brush is being used here...
1 Studies have shown many of today's youngsters CANNOT tell the difference between virtual and real life! Which is a problem...
2 teamwork is a virtue leaving this country quickly, too much division in the rhetoric nowadays...
3 clubs are dying because lack of membership plain and simple...
4 going online CANNOT beat face to face communication... not saying I don't appreciate you guys or don't think of you as friends but we as humans are hardwired to work better face to face...
5 clubs are NOT necessarily a Mish mash of scenes, my club has a very well done layout and operates under prototypical limitations...
6 I think people aren't passing enough information, wisdom, advice, opinions on to the younger generation, if I didn't have a club or this forum I probably wouldn't be starting a layout let alone considering it...
In a song by Billy Joel off the album Turnstiles there is a song "James" in which he sings, "Do what's good for you, or not good for anybody..." that sentiment is somewhat true but also share the love a little, I mean tonight for example we had a grand old time at the club, laughing and carrying on, that's what it's all about, fellowship, kinda like church in a way...
I strongly encourage, recommend, suggest, and urge anyone who has the opportunity and means to join a club or multiple clubs to by all means do it! There'll be a bad apple here and there that gets in your way, just get past it and enjoy the good folks...
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Back to closing clubs. I was at Caboose Hobbies this week, they now have a DRGW steel caboose in the parking lot. Asked about it....it was aquired from a club in parker. Looked online and that was the DG&O club. Guy at caboose said that club was folding. Looked at the website and did not see anything about folding the club BUT....the building they are in is listed for sale with complete model railroad ? Wonder why that club went down.
The clubs formerly in Union station that were kicked out several years back....the great O Scale club to my knowledge did not find a new home, I assume that club is unofficially disbanded by this point. The HO guys relocated at White fence farm but updates are slow in comng and the layouts they do refer to look pretty small and not too inspired.
There is an HO group out at Lockeed Marting but you have to be an employee or ex employee only to join. Limiting membership like that makes one wonder how long they can survice. Thier club officers are only the same few peple year after year so you wonder if they only have a handful of members today.
Moffat N Scale and the Golden museum folks appear stable (Good thing)
I think people are busier than ever which prevents them having time to participate in clubs/associations of any kind. Years ago, my Dad left for work around 7:30 and was home by 5:00 pm. I leave for work at 5:50 am and try to be home by 5:15 pm. Most of my friends are in the same boat. Many Americans are working longer hours than their parents. Employers demand more and more, people I know check their work e-mail once a day when on vacation (if they even take one). I see same issue with a faternity at my church fewer and fewer are joining.
I should mention that people are spending more and more time online as well.
DRfan I think people are busier than ever which prevents them having time to participate in clubs/associations of any kind. Years ago, my Dad left for work around 7:30 and was home by 5:00 pm. I leave for work at 5:50 am and try to be home by 5:15 pm. Most of my friends are in the same boat. Many Americans are working longer hours than their parents. Employers demand more and more, people I know check their work e-mail once a day when on vacation (if they even take one). I see same issue with a faternity at my church fewer and fewer are joining. I should mention that people are spending more and more time online as well.
slotracer Back to closing clubs. I was at Caboose Hobbies this week.
Back to closing clubs. I was at Caboose Hobbies this week.
Caboose Hobbies is no more. That new shop is not Caboose Hobbies but goes by a different name: Caboose. I find it odd how it is stated to be the same shop that simply moved. Nothing really moved right? Unless it is just the disimbodied spirit of Caboose Christmas present.
Caboose Hobbies, from what I understand sold of all their remaining inventory and closed last year and the owner retired. A new shop opened at a different location with a new name to fill the void left when CH closed.
Or am I mistaken? What legal kind of Voo Doo allows Caboose to say est. 1938? I followed the saga of the closing and opening of the "replacement" shop with a new name and new owner. If they are really still Caboose Hobbies, why doesn't the sign on the store say Caboose Hobbies, you know what I mean? Things just don't add up - it's a black box, kind of like in high school where we did a formula and had to show our work so the teacher could see how we arrived at the final answer. The final answer here is a shop with a different name, but still claiming to still be the same store with the same history. It raises more questions in my mind than answers. Can some one clarify this conundrum and open up the black box and explain it all?
Did you mean Lockheed Martin? My daughter started working for them last summer at their Owego NY location. I didn't know their was a LM train club.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Speaking as a member of the under 40 crowd, I think for a lot of hobbyists who are Gen-Xers and millenials things like facebook, instagram, pinterest, youtube, and messageboards have taken the place of clubs. I mean look at it this way. If you have internet access at your home or wherever you happen to be sitting at the moment and you get on the site, you're already there so you didn't need to go anywhere. Plus message boards and social media sites are up 24/7 so you don't need to get there at a special time unless you want to take part in livechats or something like that.
I agree it's not quite the same as actually being at a brick and mortar club where you operate and work on the club layout, but if you meet some people near you, you can set up something where you all take turns visiting each other's layouts. Like a brick and mortar club with a message board or social media site it's your decision what all you want to get out of it. If you feel you're not getting what you want out of it, well then you can leave. The world will go on whether you're there or not.
Yeh, the 24/7 argument is a key one.
I will say this, for me, when I was interested in it and had time, the round robin group that met at a different members home each week and worked on or operated his layout, was more fun than a club with a club layout.
The key however is still time and enough common interest among the group......and enough operating layouts.
For me, the group changed as membership evolved. All great people, but I felt like I had less to offer and that the modeling "direction" of many of the newer (some younger, some not) members was not in sync with my interests.
I also felt it was taking time away from my own modeling, plus I had family obligations on the meeting night for a while, etc.
dirtyd79Speaking as a member of the under 40 crowd, I think for a lot of hobbyists who are Gen-Xers and millenials things like facebook, instagram, pinterest, youtube, and messageboards have taken the place of clubs. I
The only hole I see in that statement is the clubs that has gone DCC has the younger members while the straight DC clubs has a limited number of old men sitting around wondering why they can't get new members. These are the same old buzzards that makes up the hobby is dying or young people are not getting into the hobby crowd.
Todays younger modelers and railfans are far more knowledgeable then I ever was as far as horn types and modern diesels.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL the round robin group that met at a different members home each week and worked on or operated his layout, was more fun than a club with a club layout.
Doing the Round-Robin thing is great. Just a few simple rules to follow like "The owner of the layout has final say on all decisions" for example.
I did Round-Robin for a while when I started my "Dream House" layout. My participation ended when my money situation became dire and I could no longer to afford to work on my layout.
I have not seen any of the guys from that group in 15 years.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL the round robin group that met at a different members home each week and worked on or operated his layout, was more fun than a club with a club layout. . Doing the Round-Robin thing is great. Just a few simple rules to follow like "The owner of the layout has final say on all decisions" for example. . I did Round-Robin for a while when I started my "Dream House" layout. My participation ended when my money situation became dire and I could no longer to afford to work on my layout. . I have not seen any of the guys from that group in 15 years. . -Kevin .
Even though I enjoyed the round robin, I was not interestd in having help with my own layout.
On the other hand, my skills were welcomed by a number of the others. I designed layouts, built benchwork, layed track and even designed a built a control system similar to what I use on my layout for one of the members.
Today, once I get the new layout to a basic operating level, I would be inclined to invite the group for a visit, and my me interesting in regular operating sessions.
But for now, I'm happy to just be building trains.
rrebell Don't know about your area but I have noticed in California the gradual decline in the number of train clubs esspecialy ones located on fair property. Just learned of Napa's imminent demise.
Don't know about your area but I have noticed in California the gradual decline in the number of train clubs esspecialy ones located on fair property. Just learned of Napa's imminent demise.
Is this in northern California? Here in Southern California, there are plenty of clubs, both stationary and modular, as evident by the abundant representation in our local major train shows. The Napa area alo underwent a major fire that affected a large population of its residents, so model railroading might not be the highest priority for their members if their houses burned down or were seriously damaged.
That said, as a relatively-young modeler (I'm "only" in my mid-40s :)) I have no interest in a club. I'm all for them, but I'd rather spend my time and money on my own layout.
Yep, around the bay. Used to be a bunch of shows, now very few and the clubs are dying like flies. As far as Napa, it is the people who run the fairgrounds, just as was the case in San Mateo. There are few train shops anymore too though we still have two within 30 miles, both run buy headstrong people, never go to either anymore and I am not the only one who they alienated. Even at the shows that still exist, attendence is down in part because parking costs more than the shows in some cases which bothers some, less tables, another blow, traffic around here dosn't help either but there are other reasons too. I know all about the shows because of the people I know and I personally talked to the former head of the San Mateo Expo center that was in charge at the time that club was asked to go. I have known many hobby shop owners too so I have good insite into what is going on.