Howard, The ideas you mentioned for a store all sound pretty good.
I don't think location matters that much however as long as it's not too ghetto. I realize that it’s not a booming business so they can’t afford the highest rents. I think the employees and owners are more important than the location. I have shopped at several different train stores in my life including ones that I have driven an hour or more one way to get to and only a couple of them really made me feel welcome. I think the people skills of the owners make all the difference. I can think of three stores where the owners made you feel completely welcome and acted like they were your best friends. Two of them were in strip malls although one was in a ran down one, and the other store was in an industrial area. It was enjoyable to go to those shops. They didn’t hover or stare you down. They just said hi as you walked in and said if you had any questions just ask. They were always willing to get into a conversation with you about the hobby in general without being a salesman kind of person, they just loved the hobby. Sadly those stores are now closed because the owners retired or passed away. Other stores the employees watch you like a hawk like they expect you to steal something. One time I was looking for paint pens because sometimes they are better than trying to use a paintbrush. The owner’s daughter (who is in her late 50s) demanded to know what I was going to use them for, practically implying that I was going to use them to draw graffiti with them. I was almost too embarrassed to tell her that I use them to paint the blinkers and taillights on my scale vehicles and to paint the lines on my model railroads streets.
Model train stores cannot afford retail space that's designed for high visibility. The model train hobby is not very mainstream and cannot rely upon somebody stopping in just because they saw the sign or have a passing interest. Sure, you might lose a few customers not having high visibility, but there will be way, way, more other days where that high rent will go to waste.
Reportedly, there is a very large and pretty successful shop in Deshler Nebraska. Ever hear of Deshler NE? I doubt the rent is that high, and real estate might even be cheap enough to where they own the building....and rent out a chunk of it to somebody else.
Hobbyists are tolerant of driving a while to get to a train shop. The physical building doesn't need to be conveniently located, IMO.
- Douglas
I personally have given up on "actual train shops" and now buy everything on-line. My reason for this is because I live 50 miles from the nearest shop and dread the drive there and back... What could be simpler than ordering rolling stock or locos on-line and two or three days later they're in the mail box.
marksrailroaddread the drive there and back
Russell
Model trains take two things... Space and Time. If you do not have both, you are not going to have a layout.
Sure, you are not going to have a layout, but you may still be buying trains and patronizing vendors or shops (focus of this topic). I'd wager that a high percentage of folk who are buying model trains don't have space and are either just collectors or collecting for a future layout. I was in exactly that position for around 14 years and some years in my 20's too. Yet I was still buying trains.
Who has space and time? RETIREES!
Time, certainly, but guys out there with good jobs who can afford a home with a basement - they have space and many examples have been shown over the many years in MR magazine. Just thumb through copy after copy. These people with the nice layouts didn't build them on a retiree's budget. They were/are professionals with salaries so afford a home with space and fill it with trains. Add to that now what with a lot of RTR stuff to help them save time and devote to building the layout.
Howard ZaneMy shop was is such a center (1973-1975) and our front windows with built up everythings and working model railroad brought in many if not just to see the displays. Several were hooked, and became regulars. Of course this was before the net, ... Today? I just do not know as so much has changed, but still a great location is paramount. That will never change. HZ
Today? I just do not know as so much has changed, but still a great location is paramount. That will never change.
HZ
Where is Amazon's great location? It's online and they ship to where ever you are. How about Sears great locations? Yet they are circling the drain and they may be history as a store brand in the next 12 months or so. JC Penny's, Macy's, Radio Shack? Really, how are they different from a hobby shop? They sell products but as brick and mortar stores, they are dying as brand names.
Sure, I'd agree before the rise of online buying but there has been a paradigm shift and it's much discussed in the media, advertising departments are changing the way the target customers in radical ways. Definitely online IS the future of selling model train products and B&M is quickly becoming a distant secondary sales outlet. Why location isn't so important is because online extends REACH of a hobby shop so a well run real time inventory website is going to be a more effective storefront than a door into a shop somewhere. By way of example, MB Klein recently remodeled their B&M store and cut the walk-in space to about 1/3rd of what it used to be, because their online sales continue to grow and outstrip the walk-in. B&M and that way of thinking appears to be a thing of the past. The reality is, the times, they are a changin and in a big way.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The area is fine. I go there all the time. You can park more than 3 cars, espeically on a Saturday or Sunday. No night hours, as the area is not the best, and Bill locks up the place like For Knox.
SeeYou190 7j43k I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently. I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus. . Did you get the correct location? . They only have 3 parking places. After you park you need to walk through those razor-wired gates down an alley to a little room where you need to be buzzed in. . . Don't take me wrong here. Ready-To-Roll is a great shop. If you are ever on the Southeast Coast of Florida you need to go. The inside of the store is awesome. . -Kevin .
7j43k I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently. I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus.
.
Did you get the correct location?
They only have 3 parking places. After you park you need to walk through those razor-wired gates down an alley to a little room where you need to be buzzed in.
Don't take me wrong here. Ready-To-Roll is a great shop. If you are ever on the Southeast Coast of Florida you need to go. The inside of the store is awesome.
-Kevin
Luxury, pure luxury. It doesn’t look scary to me. Of course I'm from San Bernardino so people from Compton are afraid of me. LOL. Yes I see some of the houses have bars on the windows but they have nice cars. I don’t see graffiti, crack heads, homeless meth addicts or gang bangers which is what to expect by my local hobby shop.
Here is the front. That trash pile is someone's home. https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1359546,-117.292898,3a,42.1y,216.33h,86.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg8pFuw0_FC2uqcYCkwC_LQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
Here is the alley to get to the parking lot:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1354551,-117.2919645,3a,39.7y,272.49h,90.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn1WdecXJK_BKaBcdE0UeGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
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RR_Mel Almost all of the retired model railroaders are deep into buying little things to work on their layouts. I buy detail parts, scenery and miscellaneous stuff constantly, most often under $20.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
7j43k SeeYou190 Best example: Ready-To-Roll Trains in Miami. They are in the most terrible location of any shop I have ever visited. Google Street View their shop for a scare, I am serious! I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently. I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus. Ed
SeeYou190 Best example: Ready-To-Roll Trains in Miami. They are in the most terrible location of any shop I have ever visited. Google Street View their shop for a scare, I am serious!
I'm missing the scary part. I do live in Oakland, so maybe I'm seeing things differently.
I DO see plenty of parking, always a plus.
Ed
What would it take to run a successful train store today
A Miracle
Middlemen sell everything on the internet for a way cut price.
You better be a great people person or a magician if you would like to try to compete with this endeavor.
The funny thing is some people are capable of this and could probably pull it off.
The more unfortunate thing is not too many people of this caliper are around anymore.
Track Fiddler
PS Someone is always capable.
I had given this some thought years ago about opening a train only store where I live. The problem is like many have said, is location, the internet, and like any other type of retail store business, would be to get customers to venture to a new store, especially one that specializes with a limited category. Amazon isn't a concern as I'm sure they have train sets and have third party people listing things that have a high ticket. My background is in sales in the toy business, and over the past 5 years I've seen the small retail specialty base decrease. Unless you've been established in a major town/city, you're probably not going to succeed.
Established train stores or hobby shops that devote the space and expertise to a category, have a decent chance to survive. Let's not forget some manufacturer's sell direct to both dealers and consumers. In the RC Car business, one wholesaler sells the car kits cheaper than what they sell it to their dealers! What do those dealers do? They carry a few cars but carry an entire array of parts and that's how they try to make their money (these cars do crash alot).
I'll support the LHS or LTS (local train store) as much as I can. If they can match an online price (some do), they'll get my business.
Neal
dknelson When I go to Milwaukee's Trainfest, one vendor who always seems to have plenty of customers is Scenic Express. They offer a variety of scenery materials and supplies, and are not afraid to charge for them. This suggests to me that most hobby shops AND the on-line vendors are not coming anywhere near exhausting the market for scenery materials. I am not saying that a LHS could make a go of it only with scenery stuff but I do think a larger presence for scenery materials could be a difference maker -- scenery stuff tends not to be scale specific, with some exceptions, it is not subject to the limited run/advance order syndrome, and a lot of inventory can be displayed in a fairly compact area. I vividly remember the last day in business of one of my favorite hobby shops in the Milwaukee area, a shop run by a bunch of very good modelers and -- to be frank -- idealists. They even called the place "Dreamers." On that last day when everything was 70% and more off, there were still tons of high level detail parts, something they prided themselves on, and decals, and Floquil paints, and so on. The take-away for me was that one way to go broke is to focus on the really serious modelers because unless you have "everything," to them you have "nothing." Dave Nelson
When I go to Milwaukee's Trainfest, one vendor who always seems to have plenty of customers is Scenic Express. They offer a variety of scenery materials and supplies, and are not afraid to charge for them.
This suggests to me that most hobby shops AND the on-line vendors are not coming anywhere near exhausting the market for scenery materials. I am not saying that a LHS could make a go of it only with scenery stuff but I do think a larger presence for scenery materials could be a difference maker -- scenery stuff tends not to be scale specific, with some exceptions, it is not subject to the limited run/advance order syndrome, and a lot of inventory can be displayed in a fairly compact area.
I vividly remember the last day in business of one of my favorite hobby shops in the Milwaukee area, a shop run by a bunch of very good modelers and -- to be frank -- idealists. They even called the place "Dreamers." On that last day when everything was 70% and more off, there were still tons of high level detail parts, something they prided themselves on, and decals, and Floquil paints, and so on.
The take-away for me was that one way to go broke is to focus on the really serious modelers because unless you have "everything," to them you have "nothing."
Dave Nelson
My favorite LHS is strictly for trains carries plenty of Woodland Scenics scenery material which has very similar materials to Scenic Express. It would be difficult to allow shelf space for both. Scenic Express does offer Super Trees which would be difficult to stock because one box takes up a lot of space. Rarely do I go in there for scenic material when they don't have what I want in stock.
The other LHS I frequent deals in a number of hobbies and I would guess about 1/3 of the store is devoted to trains. He too carries a good amount of WS scenic material.
I don't know how typical these two LHS are but I don't think they are dropping the ball as far as stocking scenic material.
marksrailroad I personally have given up on "actual train shops" and now buy everything on-line. My reason for this is becasue I live 50 miles from the nearest shop and dread the drive there and back... What could be simpler than ordering rolling stock or locos on-line and two or three days later they're in the mail box.
I personally have given up on "actual train shops" and now buy everything on-line. My reason for this is becasue I live 50 miles from the nearest shop and dread the drive there and back... What could be simpler than ordering rolling stock or locos on-line and two or three days later they're in the mail box.
I moved out of Columbus, OH about 16 years ago but still frequent the two LHS I used to even though they are almost an hour drive away. I can do this because I still bowl in Columbus twice a week and the bowling alley is about a five minute drive from the two LHS. I wouldn't want to make a special trip into Columbus just to visit a LHS but I have done it if I really needed something right away. I do buy somethings online as well but those are usually the big ticket items like locos. I do this partly for the price and partly for the availability.
Sales. Start your "store" as online only, and once you've got your sales built up to $1 million/year you can safely look at a physical retail location. At that point you'll be able to secure financing for your venture based on your sales volume, and your online sales will carry your venture until the store is up and running and bringing in business on its own.
Unless you have very deep pockets, never start any "bricks and mortar" business without first having sales lined up..
Walthers will not sell any NEW online only stores, unless they had a store, closed it and continued online. New dealers would have to go other distributors. Not sure what Horizon's policy is...
Is Walthers the same company it used to be, no. You can get stuff from other chanels. The reason I say this is just look at their catalog, used to be over 1000 pages in just HO, latest catalog combines HO, N and Z and is not as big. There are more products out there now. Yes some have gone because of limited runs but that only accouts for a fraction of the loss and the new catalogs have more fluff than they used to.
nealknows Walthers will not sell any NEW online only stores, unless they had a store, closed it and continued online. New dealers would have to go other distributors. Not sure what Horizon's policy is... Neal
Well, you could ask this guy:http://k-10smodeltrains.com/
One man with courage is a majority!
Interesting thread. I'd suggest that to have a successful shop, one needs to lower their standards. Now that I have your attention...
Many people here are way past the trainset and Athearn blue box stages of the hobby. They know what they want and they know where to get it at the best prices. But the key is the new guy/beginner. They will be willing to spend some money and listen to a knowledgable person as well.
I deal with this all of the time in a discussion group that I'm part of. It represents people who are probably at the 90-95 percentile in model railroading. Discussions center around "the correct color" or whether or not a stirrup should have one rungs or two or what kind of roof was on that 85,000 series XYZ boxcar... tons of beginning model railroaders don't care about those things yet. They want to get their Plywood Central up & running so they need more basic supplies than specific detail parts. Cater to those people as well and you will be working on a "feeder" system that should keep customers coming back for future purchases.
Oh yes, good model railroad shops are a destination business. People will go out of their way to go there... often driving 40-50 miles or more to find what they want.
dlm
The question remains ehether the customers are willing to pay that extra the shop owner needs to finance the working capital, the decent location and the staff to give them the service they ask for.
I don´t think they will!
1. Strong online presence.
2. Location at a vacation destination.
The only shop in my area is so small and run down that I have more stock than they do. If I want something more than a starter set for kids it has to be ordered wich means two trips to the store and a premium price. No thanks.
What I would like is an online store that is in a location where I occasionally vacation. Then I can stop by, build a relationshhip, and continue to buy from them when at home. I'm currently on google looking for stores near Vero Beach or along 95 between SC and Vero. If I find one I will stop, pick up a few things, talk to the owner, and move them to the top of my list when ordering online.
HO & N scale. Digitrax DCC. Mostly L&N (Louisville and Nashville) railway using a mix of brands. Back in the hobby after a looooong absence.
nealknows Walthers will not sell any NEW online only stores, unless they had a store, closed it and continued online. Neal
Walthers will not sell any NEW online only stores, unless they had a store, closed it and continued online.
Considering the massive and pervasive trend to online sales, it's obvious that Walthers will be forced to change their policy because their base of stores will dwindle to the point it will be not be feasible to continue. I'd have to think the time is fast approaching where they can't play that game anymore. Adapt or die.
danmerkel But the key is the new guy/beginner. They will be willing to spend some money and listen to a knowledgable person as well.
YES... I tried to make that point before. There is no better cash cow than a newly retired "beginner" to scale model railroading that is eager to start his new hobby and enjoy the final phase of his life.
Living the dream.
My two cents worth is the hobby shop is in a terminal decline, as are most b&m retail stores. In the end, the only physical stores left standing will be convenience stores and Dollar General.
In order to compete, hobby shops need to be the instant gratification guys, the ones who can put the item in my hands then and there. That would make up for the price premium and having to pay sales tax. "We don't have it, but we can order it for you" isn't going to cut it.
However, manufacturer business practices make that virtually impossible. You can't be the instant gratification guy if the product is made of unobtanium. You can only make so much profit off Woodland Scenics stuff.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
True...hobby shops have had their once numerous ranks dwindle quite a bit. When they are all gone, some genius is going to say...."Hey...how about a hobby shop!" I believe things go in cycles, but I'm not sure how long these cycles take....years or decades? I do know from first hand experience that on line purchasing is for folks who know what they want. I doubt seriously if a possible newbie will get the bug by looking at choo choos for sale on a monitor screen. There is now a huge potential market....not for kids..but for baby boomers now retiring and looking for a hobby. They have now plenty of time, funds, and knowledge of railroading, and most likely could be influenced and enter a new hobby. A smart shop or good model train show should be able to reach these folks and there will be many.
Retirement really sucks if one just retires with nothing new to go into...be it a new vocation or hobby, but something they can really like or love.
My two bucks............HZ
Howard Zanewhat would it take today to open and run a really succesful shop besides on line sales?
It seems that there is not an easy answer to this. If there were, there would be more shops opening. And whenever anyone comes up with a good idea, everyone else will want to copy it and it will become a fad.
Many years ago ceramic shops were the fad. There were none around, and suddenly there was one or more in every town. I can't think of any left around here now.
Perhaps there needs to be a combination of things that will attract people. The latest thing around here is a painting and wine tasting place. The ladies go there to try there hand at painting (pictures, not something useful like rooms ---but I digress) and taste wine. We now have two of them.
Something like laundramat and tile, or possibly bar and scale trains.
Howard ZaneI do know from first hand experience that on line purchasing is for folks who know what they want. I doubt seriously if a possible newbie will get the bug by looking at choo choos for sale on a monitor screen.
I have to disagree with that based on the fact that I got the bug by looking at the toy train section in the Christmas catalog from Sears at first and then later looking at the Walthers catalog. Websites are just an electronic version of a catalog.
I remember that if you wanted an Athearn blue box kit you pretty much had to know what you wanted ahead of time because the boxes didn’t have a picture on them and it was a hassle to open up box after box to look inside. One store I went to had the boxes opened and shrink wrapped and hanging on a peg hook so you could see inside. I’m sure that helped sales a lot. I bought a vast majority of my rolling stock from them. Magazines like MR and RMC were also inspirations. Advertising in them does work for creating demand for models.
RabidWhat I would like is an online store that is in a location where I occasionally vacation. Then I can stop by, build a relationshhip, and continue to buy from them when at home. I'm currently on google looking for stores near Vero Beach or along 95 between SC and Vero. If I find one I will stop, pick up a few things, talk to the owner, and move them to the top of my list when ordering online.
I have an idea similar to this but better. I can't post it or someone will steal it, but if anyone is serious about opening a shop in a tourist town I would be interested in working with them on it as a minority partner. Las Vegas or Orlando might be the ideal location for my plan. If anyone is interested let me know.
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Rabid What I would like is an online store that is in a location where I occasionally vacation. Then I can stop by, build a relationshhip, and continue to buy from them when at home. I'm currently on google looking for stores near Vero Beach or along 95 between SC and Vero. If I find one I will stop, pick up a few things, talk to the owner, and move them to the top of my list when ordering online. I have an idea similar to this but better. I can't post it or someone will steal it, but if anyone is serious about opening a shop in a tourist town I would be interested in working with them on it as a minority partner. Las Vegas or Orlando might be the ideal location for my plan. If anyone is interested let me know.
Rabid
Oh, I know. A train shop in an RV or large Airstream.
GP-9_Man11786 My two cents worth is the hobby shop is in a terminal decline, as are most b&m retail stores. In the end, the only physical stores left standing will be convenience stores and Dollar General. In order to compete, hobby shops need to be the instant gratification guys, the ones who can put the item in my hands then and there. That would make up for the price premium and having to pay sales tax. "We don't have it, but we can order it for you" isn't going to cut it. However, manufacturer business practices make that virtually impossible. You can't be the instant gratification guy if the product is made of unobtanium. You can only make so much profit off Woodland Scenics stuff.