I have been in the hobby for 14 years, and I am an expert at everything (LOL) ......................except airbrushing and weathering.
Rich
Alton Junction
If 2 year old me working the throttle on a simple HO loop under the tree counts as being in the hobby, I've been doing this for nearly 50 years now, and I have yet to use an airbrush. I have one, and a compressor, just haven't set it up and tried it out yet. As for weathering, the only weathering I do is painting the trucks of all my rolling stock grimy black to kill the shine. I do paint the wheel faces now, and even do the couplers. Oh and I put a little oily black inside the stack opening on a couple of my locos.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
richhotrain...I have now moved from restrained enthusiasm to outright intimidation....
No need to feel intimidated, Rich. I can very seldom get good results with a spray can, regardless of what I'm painting...models, lawn furniture, or car parts.Before I bought an airbrush, I did most of my model painting with a brush, and got better results than the few times that I tried spray cans.
When I got the airbrush, I was more-or-less talked into it by a hobbyshop owner for whom I was doing custom painting. The paint jobs were multi-colour diesels with painted-on lettering (no correct decals available at that time). "It'll be a lot faster than a brush.", he said.
Well, the actual painting was faster, but it required a lot more masking than was required for brush painting.I got a couple of empty cardboard boxes at the supermarket, broke them down into flat sections and practiced the airbrushing exercises described in the booklet which came with my Paasche VL, using the blank interior sides of the cardboard as my "canvas". Once you get the "feel" of it, it becomes second nature.
While there are still things which need to be painted with a brush, I won't hesitate to use the airbrush for even a single small item like a vehicle for the layout...and my paint shop is in my garage, 100' behind the house, in a small room that needs to be heated prior to painting during the winter months. In fact, I need to either heat the room for several hours in order for the compressor's oil to thin enough that it won't stall the motor, or store the compressor in my basement, under the layout, then lug all 85lbs. of it out to the garage, often through the snow. I consider the effort worthwhile for the results I get. I must admit, though, that most painting sessions include lots of models...5 or 6 torn-down brass locomotives or a few dozen freight cars or some structures or vehicles.If you get good results with a spray can, then there's no reason to consider an airbrush or to be anxious about it.
I will mention, though, that an airbrush opens your colour choices very widely, as you can mix any colour or shade of colour to suit your needs, often from a reasonably manageable selection of paint - much fewer bottles than the number of spray cans that still wouldn't let you alter the shade or colour coming out of the nozzle. It would also allow you to spray flat or gloss finishes and semi-gloss finishes in varying degrees of shininess from only two bottles.Wanna do some light weathering? Take a couple of colours that you think might be suitable, dump a bit of each in a clean bottle (as you use-up a bottle of paint, clean it thoroughly and you'll have a container suitable for mixing custom colours), then fill the bottle with thinner. When you apply that with an airbrush, it can be done so lightly that it won't itself be apparent, but will alter the appearance of the car or loco on which it's applied from something right out of the paint shop to something that's been in service for a while. You can age it further with subsequent applications of the same colour or other well-thinned colours.If you paint, f'rinstance, a couple of orange refrigerator cars, then a few oxide red boxcars, and blue vehicle, and have a little of those already-thinned colours left over, dump them together into another clean bottle, add more thinner, and you've got another weathering colour. No paint need go to waste, nor languish in a spray can for a year, and not be accessible when you next need to use it because the nozzle is plugged.
A thorough cleaning of my VL takes only a couple of minutes, and I seldom clean it at all between colour changes during a painting session, unless I'm also changing paint types, such as acrylic to lacquer-based.
Wayne
Wayne, you got me thinking about another angle with your latest post. I hear you with the argument in favor of an airbrush over a rattle can of spray. But, what about simply brushing on the paint with a high quality paint brush. Is that a realistic possibility? I paint all of my structures by hand, and I have had good success. To my eye, I don't see any brush marks or other flaws.
I guess that I am a wimp when it comes to the idea of an airbrush, but here is my dilemma. I have no experience with an airbrush. I only need to paint one loco. I get no second chance if I screw it up.
It also seems to me that the post-painting cleanup must be a messy chore, cleaning out that airbrush and disposing of the unused paint. It seems like a lot of effort for one little locomotive.
Is the airbrush really the only way to go?
Richie My Friend.....You are so indecisive.....The time spent on this thread, You could have had the shell painted already. I know I would have...LOL.
I won't say any more...other than using an air brush is not all that difficult to learn. Once You do, You will see that there is no comparison to a rattle can..period. No fumes floating around with overspray, due to the propellant, no cloudy mists of paint anywhere....the paint goes on the model....Not in the air you're breathing.
Brush paint? Red Sable/Sable Artist flat brush 1/4''/1/2''....paint up/down, not side to side...ligthtly thin paint out of container...no more than two strokes.
Good Luck on Your decision!
Frank
Keep it up, Frankie. You don't live that far from me.
I may just stop over with loco shell in one hand and a six pack in the other.
I mean, how long could it take for you to airspray one little loco for lil' ol' me?
Probably faster than it would take for the two of us to drink that six pack.
Richie
Wayne, I'd give a spary can a try again now that you have developed the proper techniques with an airbrush. The basic "fill in the area" without any other effects involves a lot of the same coordination of movement to start and stop the spray as sweeping past the surface. Yes, you can do MORE with an airbrush because it's NOT just on/off, you have much more control over the air/paint flow as well as the ability to adjust the tip to control the spray pattern. But since the object here is to fill the whole model with even coats of the same color, a spray can should be fine.
And, again, some spray cans/paints are better than others. I used Tamiya Bare-Metal Silver (AS-21) to paint a Walthers Miss Bettie's Diner. The Tamiya paints tend to be thinner and their nozzles emit a very even spray. The result was a very smooth coat over the entire structure and I couldn't be happier with the results.
If you want to stick with a spray can for this project, Rich, and can find a satisfactory match for C&NW green then I would go with Tamiya. The thinness of the Tamiya paints will help preserve any fine details on your Atlas RS-1 shell.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
If you paint the big parts separately and use a bent coat hanger to hold the parts and rotate them 360 degrees sphericaly, there aren't too many places that wont get hit with paint, if any.
A thin wash if india ink or water based dark green will settle into any places that aren't perfect.
You gotta have really bad aim or a heavy finger to get any drips.
Do you have a $2 tyco car somewhere that you can practice with?
- Douglas
Thanks Randy and Tom for those comments and suggestions. I need to look at both Scalecoat II and Tamiya.
Doughless If you paint the big parts separately and use a bent coat hanger to hold the parts and rotate them 360 degrees sphericaly, there aren't too many places that wont get hit with paint, if any.
Do you attempt to spray the entire shell in one try, top, sides, front and rear?
I would, Rich. As suggested, remove/separate all of the larger items (e.g. cab, shell, walkway, handrails, etc. and paint them all separately. I would also paint the interiors with at least one coat of the same color (or dark color) so that headlights don't bleed through the shell. Actually, you could probably just brush coat that to maintain evenness in the harder-to-spray areas.
tstage I would, Rich. As suggested, remove/separate all of the larger items (e.g. cab, shell, walkway, handrails, etc. and paint them all separately. I would also paint the interiors with at least one coat of the same color (or dark color) so that headlights don't bleed through the shell. Actually, you could probably just brush coat that to maintain evenness in the harder-to-spray areas. Tom
I'm not suggesting that Rich shouldn't use a spray can if he's competent doing so and is able to find the suitable colour, but simply offering a few reasons why an airbrush can be a better solution.
richhotrainI guess that I am a wimp when it comes to the idea of an airbrush, but here is my dilemma. I have no experience with an airbrush....
I did suggest a simple way to gain that experience, using cardboard as the subject.
richhotrain...I only need to paint one loco...
True, but if you learn to use an airbrush, it's a skill you'll have when you need to do only one of something else, too!
richhotrain...I get no second chance if I screw it up....
Why? Can't you strip-off the screwed-up paint job and try again? What will you do if your spray-can effort goes awry?
richhotrain...It also seems to me that the post-painting cleanup must be a messy chore, cleaning out that airbrush and disposing of the unused paint....
For me, the clean-up goes like this: I've finished painting, so I take the siphon cap off the paint bottle to which it was last attached, and replace the original cap on that bottle. I next take the colour cup (many painters use it for painting, but that's one reason why their clean-up procedure becomes more tedious and needs to be done every time they change colours during an extended painting session) and fill that cup with lacquer thinner. It's then attached to the airbrush and some or all of the thinner is shot through the tube of the siphon cap, the inside of the cap, and the outside of the syphon tube. I then dip a pipe cleaner in lacquer thinner and run it through the siphon tube and use a rag to wipe off the inside of the cap and the outside of the siphon tube and cap.The colour cup is then re-filled with lacquer thinner, and the air cap, air cap body, and tip are removed from the airbrush and placed into the colour cup. Next, the handle is removed from the shell, and the locknut removed from the needle adjusting sleeve. The needle is then pulled from the front of the airbrush's shell - removing it from the front keeps any paint remaining there in that area. Removing the needle from the rear of the brush may drag paint into areas where it wouldn't normally be found, necessitating more cleaning.I then wrap the rag around a finger, dip it into the surface of the thinner in the colour cup, and wipe the needle clean with the moistened portion of the rag - no need to dry it.The needle adjusting sleeve is then unscrewed from the shell, and the spring and rocker assembly withdrawn. I re-wet the pipe cleaner, and run it through the needle support - there shouldn't be any paint there, but it takes only a second or two to make sure. The same pipe cleaner is then passed through, from the rear, the needle passage within the shell and then, in-turn, through the paint supply passage and out through the front of the shell.I then use either the needle or the reamer to lift the individual parts out of the colour cup, drying them using the rag (the tip of the pipe cleaner can be used to dry the interior of the tip).The cleaning is done... re-assemble the airbrush, put stuff back where it belongs...you're done. With a little practice, this should take a couple of minutes at most - you might think this excessive for painting one colour on one item, but the procedure is the same after painting several dozen items, perhaps in several dozen different colours - one two-minute clean-up.
Do not throw out any left-over paint. Recap the bottle for future use or combine it with similar remnants from other jobs to create different useable colours or a colour suitable for weathering - for the latter, any shade of brownish, greyish, greenish, blackish...you get the idea...will work. Add the appropriate thinner to the mix so that it's much more severely thinned than paint which you'd use for actual painting. It can be 95% thinner, if you wish. When applied, it will simply tone-down lettering and contrast between colours, making the object look not-new. For weathering colours more noticeable, like would be needed to represent wheel spray on the ends of cars, f'rinstance, the paint doesn't need such severe thinning, but should still be thinner than what you'd use for a regular paint job.
richhotrain...It seems like a lot of effort for one little locomotive. Is the airbrush really the only way to go?...
If you can find the needed colour in a spray can, of course not! However, if you take a little time to learn the use of your airbrush, I think that you might come to the conclusion that the airbrush is the better way, even for one item in one colour.
Doughless...You gotta have really bad aim or a heavy finger to get any drips....
For me, the problem is the finger pressure needed for the button on a spray can...there's no nuances to it - it's on or off, nowhere in between. I'm sure that regular users can get decent results, but I could never get it right, even before I acquired an airbrush. The airbrush allows for varied pressure on the finger lever to regulate airflow, and also allows the user to regulate the amount of paint supplied. The latter is determined by how-far back the lever is pulled, and most double action airbrushes have a line adjustment assembly that allows the user to pre-set that amount, if so desired.
Doughless...Do you have a $2 tyco car somewhere that you can practice with?
Don't waste a perfectly good model for practice work - if you screw it up, you'll get discouraged and give-up. Instead, learn your techniques on something that's truly disposable, like the cardboard which I suggested. Then, when you're more confident in your abilities, try it on that Tyco car...you may find that it's a much nicer car than you'd realised.
Here's one of my less-than-two-dollars Tyco cars...
Rich,
Gotta agree wth the good doctor here (And others). I have painted thousands of items on my layout using a paint brush - mostly details but also structures and rolling stock. I also have used lots of various rattle can brands over the years, mostly on scenery and structures.
I bought an airbrush in the last five years to paint locomotives - there is no comparison between the airbrush and rattle cans or paint brush for this purpose. One you learn it, the control is superior to rattle cans and the paint goes on much more evenly than a brush. Can you paint a locomotive with rattle cans? Sure. Is it the best method for this purpose? Not in my opinion.
Rich, you did great job on the scratch build a while back - you'll get this air brush thing. Wayne has some great ideas on how to start.
my two cents,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Thanks, guys, for your added support.
Rich has demonstrated that he's a very capable modeller and I'm puzzled by his reluctance to give this a try. I'd guess that most of us have been leery about trying a new method or product, but when we do, we generally find that our fears were unwarranted.
doctorwayne Rich has demonstrated that he's a very capable modeller and I'm puzzled by his reluctance to give this a try.
Rich has demonstrated that he's a very capable modeller and I'm puzzled by his reluctance to give this a try.
The reasons for my reluctance are many.
1. I don't own an airbrush.
2. I have never used an airbrush.
3. I only need to paint one loco.
4. I only have one chance to get it right.
5. I don't have a spray booth.
6. The clean-up process seems messy and time consuming.
7. i am not crazy about messing around with lacquer thinner.
Now, don't get me wrong. I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions made in the replies favoring the use of an airbrush. In fact, I am considering an airbrush based upon the weight of the replies. But I have to believe that a lot of modelers who are viewing this thread share my reluctance to use an airbrush.
I did a little searching and so far the only Mfg'er offering that color in a spray can is Scalecoat.....which is #2036 for scalecoat II for plastics 6oz 9.95. Other brands do carry that color, like Tru-color, but it is not offered in spray cans. I know You use Hobbylinc. but forget it.....their inventory of the paint mfg'ers above is limited to roughly a few colors, none of which You need.
Tamiya does make a color similar to it..but without seeing them both together, it's hrd to say. I have used Tamiya spray paint on numerous occasions, but the Polycarbonate kind for RC bodies and it is easier to spray with, but the colors will be a hit or miss for specific Railroad colors, but they do give out a finer spray and recommend them.
Good Luck!
EDIT: The Tamiya color I was talking about is TS-2 Dark Green....I don't know how close it would be to what You need...but looks close:
http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/tamiya_spray/kit85001.htm
richhotrain doctorwayne Rich has demonstrated that he's a very capable modeller and I'm puzzled by his reluctance to give this a try. Well, let's recall that I started this thread to get a recommendation about the best brand of CNW Green spray paint in rattle can since I don't own an airbrush. The reasons for my reluctance are many. 1. I don't own an airbrush. 2. I have never used an airbrush. 3. I only need to paint one loco. 4. I only have one chance to get it right. 5. I don't have a spray booth. 6. The clean-up process seems messy and time consuming. 7. i am not crazy about messing around with lacquer thinner. Now, don't get me wrong. I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions made in the replies favoring the use of an airbrush. In fact, I am considering an airbrush based upon the weight of the replies. But I have to believe that a lot of modelers who are viewing this thread share my reluctance to use an airbrush. Rich
Well, let's recall that I started this thread to get a recommendation about the best brand of CNW Green spray paint in rattle can since I don't own an airbrush.
Rich, I stated my case and have stayed out of all this back and forth up til now.
Back in the day, when we had to build much more in this hobby, there was a lot more painting to do.
Good model paints have much finer pigments than generic spray cans, again personally, I can't even imagine using a rattle can to paint a freight car or locomotive, my appoligies to those of you who do.
I bought my first air brush at age 13 and never looked back when it comes to painting models.
I don't like acrylic paints, but that's just me, some people love them.
Solvent paints dry slower, I like that. They dry harder, I like that.
Cleanup is not that big of a deal if you do it right away.
Unused paint can be stored for latter use.
It is an easy skill to learn for basic painting, weathering and such takes a little more....
The results will look like it came from a factory in China......
I use Scalecoat because it is gloss, which is better for decals, saving a step, then I spray the whole model with their clear, which can be mixed flat or satin to your liking.
Good luck,
Sheldon
zstripe Rich, I did a little searching and so far the only Mfg'er offering that color in a spray can is Scalecoat.....which is #2036 for scalecoat II for plastics 6oz 9.95. Other brands do carry that color, like Tru-color, but it is not offered in spray cans. I know You use Hobbylinc. but forget it.....their inventory of the paint mfg'ers above is limited to roughly a few colors, none of which You need. Tamiya does make a color similar to it..but without seeing them both together, it's hrd to say. I have used Tamiya spray paint on numerous occasions, but the Polycarbonate kind for RC bodies and it is easier to spray with, but the colors will be a hit or miss for specific Railroad colors, but they do give out a finer spray and recommend them. Good Luck! Frank EDIT: The Tamiya color I was talking about is TS-2 Dark Green....I don't know how close it would be to what You need...but looks close: http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/tamiya_spray/kit85001.htm
I may have mentioned this earlier, but what got me into this situation was that I decided to purchase an undecorated loco because I needed a second Chicago & Western Indiana (C&WI) RS-1 to pull a string of Pullman cars as the C&WI did with its commuter train from Dolton to Chicago.
The C&WI only ran RS-1s and only Atlas has done a single production run. I was fortunate to find one a few years back which is used to switch five different railroads at Dearborn Station, just like the prototype. I recently matched up the C&WI green with the C&NW green that I have on a few other diesels. Doggone it if it wasn't almost an exact match.
OK, enough of the history lesson. Later today, I will head up to the attic to check a bunch of large storage boxes. My wife recalls that several years ago the guys at my local hobby shop talked me into buying an airbrush. That is a distinct possibility because the LHS guys always talked me into buying something every time I stepped through the front door of the place.
richhotrain....But I have to believe that a lot of modelers who are viewing this thread share my reluctance to use an airbrush.
Rich, I addressed all of your concerns in my earlier reply, and I totally agree with the quote above. While my reply was directed to you, I hope that others who are in your situation may get some benefit from those words, too.
doctorwayne richhotrain ....But I have to believe that a lot of modelers who are viewing this thread share my reluctance to use an airbrush. Rich, I addressed all of your concerns in my earlier reply, and I totally agree with the quote above. While my reply was directed to you, I hope that others who are in your situation may get some benefit from those words, too. Wayne
richhotrain ....But I have to believe that a lot of modelers who are viewing this thread share my reluctance to use an airbrush.
I use the Tamiya spray cans regularly. As has been noted, they are made for (military) models, and spray acrylic paint in a thin, even coating. I use their "Olive Drab" for passenger cars, it's maybe a touch lighter than a Pullman Green - but then, an accurate Pullman green paint looks really dark on a model. You could test it out, but I suspect one of Tamiya's dark green paints (forget all the names, but I think there's a Forest Green and several different specific country's military greens) is pretty close to CNW colors.
Remember too that yellow and green paint fade pretty quickly compared to some other colors, so that dark green CNW paint would lighten over time.
richhotrain...just to see if you might relent and give me Bertrams after all.
Rich, that was mailed out over a month ago. I've had good results using the USPS in the past, and am a little concerned. I have to admit to being a little miffed about not hearing from you on its receipt, but it never occurred to me that you'd not yet received it. Just to be sure, you are still in Kansas, I take it?
doctorwayne richhotrain ...just to see if you might relent and give me Bertrams after all. Rich, that was mailed out over a month ago. I've had good results using the USPS in the past, and am a little concerned. I have to admit to being a little miffed about not hearing from you on its receipt, but it never occurred to me that you'd not yet received it. Just to be sure, you are still in Kansas, I take it? Wayne
richhotrain ...just to see if you might relent and give me Bertrams after all.
I am used to waiting several months to receive stuff mailed from Canada.
What's with you people?
richhotrainIt's Oklahoma, Wayne !...
Aw,crud!! I always get those two mixed up 'cause they both got two "a"s in 'em. Of course, if I'da sent it to the right place, ya might notta got it anyways, 'cause up here it's spelt Ouklahouma, eh?
doctorwayne richhotrain It's Oklahoma, Wayne !... Aw,crud!! I always get those two mixed up 'cause they both got two "a"s in 'em. Of course, if I'da sent it to the right place, ya might notta got it anyways, 'cause up here it's spelt Ouklahouma, eh? Wayne
richhotrain It's Oklahoma, Wayne !...
Now I know.
While many have suggested buying an airbrush, no one has offered where the air is supposed to come from. Oh, you have to buy a compressor too?
Also, most have offered no downside whatsoever to painting with an aerosol can. There is one big disadvantage. Spatter. Even if you buy a new can from the store, you better do some trial spraying on a newspaper to make sure the can is working properly. I use spray cans all the time on structures, and scenery accents as well. I would be hesitant to paint an engine this way unless it was the only one I was going to do for the rest of my modelling career.