Today, I received an Atlas Undecorated RS-1 that I intend to paint and decal.
Several questions about this process.
1. Should I wash the shell with soap and water?
2. Do I need to prime the locomotive as it is painted gray already?
3. As I don't have a sprayer, I plan to use a spray (rattle) can of paint. Any issues with this approach?
I will be using C&NW Green. Any recommendation as to the best brand of spray paint?
I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
Rich
Alton Junction
Always. There is no downside to cleanliness. They use some sort of mold release on the shell, and people, of uncertian hygiene, handle it and the oil on your fingers and theirs is bad for paint adherence
My understanding is that acrylic paint doesn't stick as well as solvent based paint, so I would. But then acrylic paint may not meet the criteria of coming in a spray can.
Anything Dr Wayne says supercedes my comments.
But back to paint, solvent paint and all the usual thinners aren't good for you so I try to use only acrylic, but it's hard to find all the colors I want.
As you probably already know, most rattle can paint comes out fast and heavy.
These days the only paint that calls itself C&NW green that comes in a spray can is Scalecoat 1 https://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/product-p/10366.htm
Edit or a Scalecoat 2 https://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/product-p/20366.htm
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Rich,
To answer your questions:
Other things that come to mind:
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Henry, thanks for that info and for the links. Most appreciated.
I hope to avoid priming the locomotive but let's see what the Doc Wayne has to say.
Thanks again.
Thanks, Tom, for that advice. I have read somewhere that placing a spray paint can in warm water for about 5 minutes will help to provide a smooth application.
Not sure who specifically makes CNW Green since I use generic colors from Krylon. My experience with model paints in rattle cans is that they come out a bit runnier, so when they suggest multiple THIN coats, that's a good advice to follow.
Also, remove the cab from the body as well as the sill and paint them separately. Don't paint the shell whole. The Atlas classic is a multiple part shell, so it makes it nice for painting.
One thing about painting with rattle cans is that you can miss the creases and crevasses where surfaces meet. You may never truely reach it with a rattle can and if you try to keep hitting it with paint you'll probably just build up the paint thick all around it while still missing the target, if you follow that. Stairs can be a tricky place since there are multiple surfaces and angles that come together
Rattle can model paint comes out glossy. I think all rattle can paint sticks well, but glossy paint might need a primer to be safe.
- Douglas
The link that Henry provided indicates that Scalecoat II is a solvent based enamel paint for plastics.
Does this mean that I should apply a primer coat first?
Doughless, thanks for that advice. I appreciate it.
Maybe I misunderstood what I was told by Dr Holtgrewe. You don't have to paint it tonight, wait for Doc Wayne to opine.
I'm not sure there is a downside to using primer unless you put it on too heavy or have an incompatibility problem between different types of paint. In MRVP they alway prime.
Rich, I don't know how much painting you've done, but you'll need a tool to hold the shell parts while you paint them. I use a coat hanger bent in an x shape so the tips widen against the inside of the part and holds it while I squeeze the bottom half of the hanger. I hold the part out and rotate it in all directions and upside down to get maximum coverage from different angles. I paint from rattle cans outside, as long as its not freezing. And to state the obvious, I wear rubber gloves to protect from overspray.
YES! No amount of preparation and cleanliness is not well spent.
.
This depends on the paint you will use. My general answer is yes.
No. I have had many good results with spray cans. Just take more care to avoid runs because you cannot control the volume of the paint. Keep the can moving at all times.
4) I will be using C&NW Green. Any recommendation as to the best brand of spray paint?
I prefer "Martin Senior" brand paints sold in NAPA auto parts stores. These have a metal spray tip and needle valve and atomize the paint pretty well.
If you have a NAPA body parts shop in your area they can get you touch up spray paints in virtually any color you can imagine. CNW green is pretty close to what is commonly called "Kelly Green", so it should not be too hard to get something close enough. When in doubt go lighter than prototype colors. They will look better under normal lighting and in worst case will just appear faded.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Hi Rich,
Scalecoat has a handy "Recommended Steps of Application" section at the beginning of their color chart. At the top of the Scalecoat II heading on the right side of page 2 it states that Scalecoat II is "designed for use on plastic without use of a primer". I don't know if that's true for other manufacturer's enamels like Testor or Tamiya but it seems to clearly imply that you do NOT need to prime the shell. Just make sure it's oil-free and dry BEFORE you paint.
Doughless Rich, I don't know how much painting you've done,
Rich, I don't know how much painting you've done,
I have used spray paint on flat surfaces like HO scale sidewalks and roads, but that is it.
tstage Hi Rich, Scalecoat has a handy "Recommended Steps of Application" section at the beginning of their color chart. At the top of the Scalecoat II heading on the right side of page 2 it states that Scalecoat II is "designed for use on plastic without use of a primer". I don't know if that's true for other manufacturer's enamels like Testor or Tamiya but it seems to clearly imply that you do NOT need to prime the shell. Just make sure it's oil-free and dry BEFORE you paint. Tom
There is one piece of spraying advice I have not seen in the preceeding - so maybe its an assumption and everyone knows it. If not.........
When you spray an item, we tend to rightfully go from left to right to left, etc.
The trick is, start the spray before you hit the model, and end the spray after you have gone past the model. This will give you equal coverage over the entire length of the model.
Beginners often start the spray on the model, go to the other end and reverse and so on. This gives "double coats" to the ends of the model, and single coats to the middle.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44The trick is, start the spray before you hit the model, and end the spray after you have gone past the model. This will give you equal coverage over the entire length of the model.
Fascinating.
When I was being taught to use an airbrush I was told to use this technique, but was never explained why.
I always assumed it was because the airbrush was more prone to splatter at the beginning of the spray and you wanted that away from the model.
Now I know better. That makes sense.
mobilman44, thanks for that advice. Good info.
I've never had much success using spray cans for painting, so I won't give any advice on that, other than to suggest a thorough shaking of the can - not 15 or 20 seconds or a minute, but maybe at least two full minutes. You don't know how long that can's been sitting in a warehouse or on the dealer's shelf. Ensuring that the paint is thoroughly mixed is a step in your favour.Definitely wash the model before painting, using warm (towards hot, but not hot) water and use a dish detergent that doesn't include a hand softener or skin conditioner. Rinse thoroughly and let air dry, and only handle after that with either clean hands or while wearing gloves (nitrile gloves work well and withstand, to some degree, even solvents like lacquer thinner).
Doughless...Also, remove the cab from the body as well as the sill and paint them separately. Don't paint the shell whole. The Atlas classic is a multiple part shell, so it makes it nice for painting....
This is good advice, even if all of the parts will be the same colour. This makes it easier to get uniform coverage without over-applying paint to adjacent areas.
Doughless...One thing about painting with rattle cans is that you can miss the creases and crevasses where surfaces meet. You may never truely reach it with a rattle can and if you try to keep hitting it with paint you'll probably just build up the paint thick all around it while still missing the target, if you follow that. Stairs can be a tricky place since there are multiple surfaces and angles that come together...
This is a situation where an airbrush can really outshine a spray can, as a simple reduction in air pressure can make those blind corners accessible to the paint, without excessive build-up to the surrounding areas.
I normally prime stuff before painting regardless of the type of paint, but that's mainly because most things that I'm painting are composed of various materials in various colours - the primer simply makes them all appear identical to the finish paint.Pay attention to the directions on the can regarding the distance from which to spray, then test that on something not needed, like a piece of cardboard. If the coverage is too heavy, increase the distance - multiple light applications are preferable to one or two heavy ones. If you find a brand and type of paint which suits your purposes and from which you get good results, stick with it. Different brands may require different techniques.I'm currently painting a bunch of locomotives, some brass and some plastic. One of the plastic ones needs a partial re-painting to match an existing colour, and the original was done with a mixed Pollyscale colour, which I still had on-hand, so the re-painting was done with that colour.Other plastic ones and the brass ones (some painted, some not yet painted) were all painted using Scalecoat I. Applied with an airbrush (and thinned with lacquer thinner) it's perfectly safe to use on plastic, and also requires no primer, even on disimilar materials as mentioned above. I probably would opt for a primer if I were using white or yellow as the finished colour, though - maybe unnecessary, but out of habit, I suppose.Scalecoat II is composed of pretty-much the same ingredients as Scalecoat I, but in different proportions. Out of a spray can, I'd suggest sticking with Scalecoat II on plastic.
Whatever the brand of paint, don't rush the drying time: dry to the touch may feel dry, but it's definitely not fully-cured (hardened). If you're taking the time to do this kind of work, don't try to rush it.
If you're spraying (spray can or airbrush) any kind of paint, good ventilation (not wind) is necessary and wear breathing protection. For acrylics and other water-based paints, a dust mask may be sufficient, but for anything containing a solvent other than water (lacquer thinner, acetone, MEK, alcohol, etc.) I highly recommend a two-stage respirator. These remove the particles of paint, and also the fumes generated by the spraying, from the air you're breathing as you paint. I paint (airbrush) in a small room (less than 4'x8') in my garage. I have a spray booth vented to the outdoors and an adjustable intake for fresh air to make-up that expelled by the exhaust fan. Even with that air movement, the fumes could become overwhelming without a respirator - why take a chance without one?
Good luck with your painting, Rich, and don't forget to show us some pictures, too.
Wayne
Wayne, thanks for all of your thoughts and suggestions.
I have now moved from restrained enthusiasm to outright intimidation.
I suppose that the best course of action is to buyer a sprayer and to set up a spray booth. But, for one loco shell?
The only reason that I bought the undecorated model is because the Chicago & Western Indiana (C&WI) locomotive is a rare bird in HO scale. To my knowledge, only Atlas made it, and it was only available in one limited run.
My other alternative is to find an experienced model railroader with the proper tools of the trade to spray paint the loco for me. The good news is that it only need be painted in CNW Green. That is the only color on the loco. It also has Dulux Gold striping, but I can do that myself with decals.
richhotrain Wayne, thanks for all of your thoughts and suggestions. I have now moved from restrained enthusiasm to outright intimidation. I suppose that the best course of action is to buyer a sprayer and to set up a spray booth. But, for one loco shell? The only reason that I bought the undecorated model is because the Chicago & Western Indiana (C&WI) locomotive is a rare bird in HO scale. To my knowledge, only Atlas made it, and it was only available in one limited run. My other alternative is to find an experienced model railroader with the proper tools of the trade to spray paint the loco for me. The good news is that it only need be painted in CNW Green. That is the only color on the loco. It also has Dulux Gold striping, but I can do that myself with decals. Rich
Rich, buy an airbrush, they are not that expensive and equally as useful for structures, etc.
Follow Wayne's advice, mine is exactly the same, I always use Scalecoat, it is the best thing out there.
I would never paint rolling stock with a rattle can, or acrylics, but that's just me, I'm old fashioned and taught by Dr. Logan Holtgrewe at the Severna Park Club.
You never know, you may become a kit builder.....
Sheldon
Just an opinion...Buy an airbrush for this. Acrylics especially, go on very thick. Rattle cans throw too much paint out at once and control is not that great. It is very easy to get too much paint on the model.
I know lots of people who paint their own locos (Including myself) None of them use rattle cans. You can also use the air brush for weathering and other hobby stuff.
My two cents,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I found even a cheap airbrush was far better than a rattle can, but quickly found I needed a better source of compressed air than the same style of can as a source of pressurized air. It had a nasty habit of cooling down and losing pressure at just the wrong moment. A spare tire proved far more satisfactory, with no sudden pressure drops. Easy enough to schedule a break as required when the pressure range eventually dropped below acceptable range. An air compressor is certainly better, but probably not cost-justified for preliminary experiments.
Yeah, it sounds like an airbrush is the way to go.
I only use rattle cans. A coat hanger and a sunny day is all that's needed. Its not that complicated.
DoughlessIts not that complicated.
I agree with Doughless. Since you are only painting one model, and it is a single color paint scheme, I do not see anything wrong with using a spray can.
I haven't done any locomotives, but I've rattlecanned all my trucks and gotten full coverage in the crevices without glopping on the paint elsewhere. Also rattlecanned the hinge hardware for all my kitchen cabinets because nothing available matched the new color of the cabinet faces - that was a lot of small pieces to lay out and spray. The start spraying before you get to the surface and keep spraying until past technique is long ingrained in me. So is changing up angles while maintaining the same distance from the surface being painted. Enough that I was annoyed and just went inside when my GF was spray painting something using the old point somewher at the object and press the nozzle technique. No idea how she avoided runs on that one, but she did manage to spray well past the large piece of cardboard and there is no a 2 corner outline on the driveway that is slowly fading away. I just never saw anyone use a rattlecan that way. I've just always learned by watching people do it the right way, and it's always worked for me, be it plastic models, model roackets, or model trains.
I have like a half dozen undec Atlas Classic RS3's to do, and I have some cans of Scalecoat II but I just never got around to it, there are details to be added to each one prior to painting. But since it's a single colort scheme, I figured there would be no issues using the rattlecans. Those models come apart precisely where there is a color change - the walkway and frame I need to paint black, the rest is all Pullman green. No masking needed.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SeeYou190 Doughless Its not that complicated.. I agree with Doughless. Since you are only painting one model, and it is a single color paint scheme, I do not see anything wrong with using a spray can.
Doughless Its not that complicated..
richhotrain SeeYou190 Doughless Its not that complicated.. I agree with Doughless. Since you are only painting one model, and it is a single color paint scheme, I do not see anything wrong with using a spray can. I guess if worse comes to worse, I can always remove the paint and start all over. Rich
I guess if worse comes to worse, I can always remove the paint and start all over.
Not really. Rattle can paint is hard to remove. It takes a toothbrush and mineral spirits and needs to be removed wet. But its still not that complicated.
The Atlas RS1 shell comes apart into big pieces (not sure about the new sound versions). Body, cab, sill, and handrails. Its pretty easy just to shoot the parts with a can.
What is your goal? As-built new from factory finish or will it be weathered? My experience says that railroad equipment tends to get dirt gathered in the creases, so any part of the loco that's thinly covered with paint can be weathered, and I'd bet those places will be the same as where the crud builds up on the prototype. Stairs for example.
Also, handrails are made of delrin. You need to use Auto Bumper Primer, aka, Adhesion Promoter. It comes in a rattle can at places like Autozone. Shoot the handrails on all sides with the primer and let it dry for about an hour. Any unprimed handrails will eventually see the paint flake off.
One other thing. Railroad equipment never weathers consistently. It tends to weather unevenly. There may be patches where the paint is nearly worn off, and others where the paint is still shiny, so unless you're painting a loco as if it just left the paint shop, perfection is not really the goal. Some patchiness is good, IMO.
As far as weathering: I weather exclusively with cheap acrylic paints using the dry brush method and very little paint. I use alcohol to wash the weathering if I applied it too thickly. Again, the thinned paint will tend to run to the crevices where the base coat might be thin. Like an india ink wash.
And I weather using a gray to brown mix, including the base coat in places. Oftentimes, people will spray a gray brown mix onto the lower half of a loco and it will look just like that, a thin layer of gray brown paint sprayed on. All you need to do is discolor the base coat to the gray or brown side, heavy and light, and apply it dry brush style. The discoloration mimicks the scale of weathering, where much of the base coat shows through the mud spray on the prototype. I use a pallet and mix the colors as I go, sometimes even on the loco as I dab....ala Bob Ross...adding a bit more brown, gray, orange, and in your case dark green in different places. Black or white on the pallet is used for darkening and lightening. After I dab along the bottom of the loco and the roofs, it tends to dull the glossy finish to where I dont need to dullcoat...again....patchy finishes. Patchiness. Not a uniform spray.
Cheap acrylic paints WILL easily wipe off dried rattle can paint, so if you mess up the weathering you can start over.
Doughless richhotrain SeeYou190 Doughless Its not that complicated.. I agree with Doughless. Since you are only painting one model, and it is a single color paint scheme, I do not see anything wrong with using a spray can. I guess if worse comes to worse, I can always remove the paint and start all over. Rich Not really. Rattle can paint is hard to remove. It takes a toothbrush and mineral spirits and needs to be removed wet. But its still not that complicated. The Atlas RS1 shell comes apart into big pieces (not sure about the new sound versions). Body, cab, sill, and handrails. Its pretty easy just to shoot the parts with a can. What is your goal? As-built new from factory finish or will it be weathered?
What is your goal? As-built new from factory finish or will it be weathered?
Great info here, Doughless.
richhotrain What is your goal? As-built new from factory finish or will it be weathered? I plead the 5th. LOL Just saying that because I receive well justified criticism for not weathering my locos and rolling stock. Great info here, Doughless. Rich
I plead the 5th. LOL Just saying that because I receive well justified criticism for not weathering my locos and rolling stock.
I think weathering stuff is one of the most fun parts of the hobby. Really, its not that hard and if you use cheap acrylic tube paints from walmart, you can wipe it off with a toothbrush and soapy water. (and have some discolored residue settle into the creases, which is a simple way of minor weathering.)