Sheldon,Thanks for posting the photos of those F7s..That's one of the many things I like about the hobby its a continual learning process.
I'm still going to continue the research since I find it very interesting.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
mlehman PRR8259 I purchased a brand new model of a diesel from one manufacturer, and posted a simple thread on another forum about how much I liked it. Unbeknownst to me, there were a couple omissions and things the manufacturer subsequently did fix on those models, but in the meantime, they were taken to task for the few things they did wrong, so much so that in the end, I found absolutely no joy in owning my particular slice of realism in that model, and sold it. John, As we can see from this thread, it's hard enough figuring out how to please yourself. If you worry about pleasing everyone else...well, that's just impossible, especially goven the very low entry level qualifications to be an internet critic
PRR8259 I purchased a brand new model of a diesel from one manufacturer, and posted a simple thread on another forum about how much I liked it. Unbeknownst to me, there were a couple omissions and things the manufacturer subsequently did fix on those models, but in the meantime, they were taken to task for the few things they did wrong, so much so that in the end, I found absolutely no joy in owning my particular slice of realism in that model, and sold it.
John,
As we can see from this thread, it's hard enough figuring out how to please yourself.
If you worry about pleasing everyone else...well, that's just impossible, especially goven the very low entry level qualifications to be an internet critic
Well said Mike!
Mike--
Additional backstory: I was someone who personally lobbied for years for said project to get produced at all. It went from being a joke 30 years ago when I was a kid to reality. Perhaps I was a bit too "emotionally invested" in the project.
Yes, anymore I pretty much don't care what others think. I like certain Rio Grande and SP steamers, not the same ones everyone else does, but the ones that appeal to me, and those are what I am hunting for in the future. 2-10-2's, 4-10-2's, and DRGW 4-8-2's and 2-6-6-2's. I might also go for an L-107...saving up cash...Keeping best steam engine I have and trying to sell a couple for modest profit.
John
The real trouble with proto stuff is that just when you say something never happened, up pops a picture. I have seen some really weird stuff both on the net and personal. Also of note, many years ago someone said a particular enginge was never owned by SP, even the historical society said so, untill one day a pic showed up, seems they got one second hand and did the paint job, only to get rid of it not long after they had aquired it.
BRAKIE Sheldon,Thanks for posting the photos of those F7s..That's one of the many things I like about the hobby its a continual learning process. I'm still going to continue the research since I find it very interesting.
No worries Larry, happy to share what I know.
My memory was off on how many existed, mainly because I was also thinking of the many F3's that also had steam generators.
And a considerable number of F7B units were sold with steam generators for use with F7's and the FP7's, also making the Athearn B unit correct for a great many locomotives.
And my first post about the ATSF was correct, the passenger ABBA F7 sets had steam generators in the B units and extra water tanks in the A units.
So as built the Athearn shell may only be correct for 50 or so locos, but it is easy to remove the details if you are detailing a unit........
Sheldon
The Bachmann CNJ GP7 looks nice, if only it had the train lighting bulges at the end of the long hood.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
steemtraynThe Bachmann CNJ GP7 looks nice...
I agree, and I'm guessing that it's not too pricey....
steemtrayn...if only it had the train lighting bulges at the end of the long hood.
A razor saw and some styrene could fix that, although you could have a little more trouble with the lettering...I'm not aware of what might be available.Back when I was still modelling the diesel era, there wasn't much in the way of well-detailed ones available, but that was at a time when diesel detail parts manufacturers began cranking out all manner of detail parts, so anyone who wanted their diesels to be "more prototypical" could buy pretty-well whatever they needed to improve the stock model. I won't go so far as to knock what's available today, but the market has changed (or been changed) and many prefer their models to be r-t-r, with no need for further embellishment. I think that Bachmann locomotives offer a reasonably-priced entry into that former era where the modeller could make something that was truly his, as most of those detail parts are still available. It's certainly not for everyone, but the sense of satisfaction at creating what you want, rather than simply buying it, should not be underestimated.
Wayne
There is plenty of room for everyone, but it is often that extreem proto group that is quick to look down their nose at others.
But why even give them acknowledgment? What is the saying about people who look down their noses at others, some might call them trolls these day? The thing trolls want is attention, they thrive on it. Best thing is to not feed the troll or the hyper critical train guy. Pay them no mind, seriously. I see way too much attention given to the negative Nancy's in the hobby. We've had enough of them. Please ... fugetubit!
As pointed out above, it is questionable as to if there even was one "nose profile" at EMD, considering how they were made. One profile, plus or minus 2-3 inches. Sheldon
Well and good, but I think there IS a consensus that there are a couple of models out there that do get the old EMD nose about as right as you will ever see, and those would be the Lubliner, Highliner F (Genesis F) and Rapido's FP7A (laser scanned from a prototype). I don't think we've seen an E unit done to quite that degree yet - I don't have a dog in that fight but that does seem to be the consensus - I'll givem them that due without a rebutt.
PRR8259 No, I utterly reject the notion that the market determines what we get to buy.
No, I utterly reject the notion that the market determines what we get to buy.
What, like the demand for RTR over kits? nuff said right there. Oh, and what about the most excellent, match the prototype, models from Moloco and Tangent?
In fact, a relatively small, but very vocal, sub-segment of the market, which does want...basically the ultimate in detail...is determining what the rest of us are able to buy.
But you rejected the market determines what we buy (above)? Aren't these very vocal customers a "market"? Ask Nick Molo, ask Jason Schron, ask David Lehbach, Ask Shane Wilson, ask Blaine Hadfield, etc...
I purchased a brand new model of a diesel from one manufacturer, and posted a simple thread on another forum about how much I liked it. Unbeknownst to me, there were a couple omissions and things the manufacturer subsequently did fix on those models, but in the meantime, they were taken to task for the few things they did wrong, so much so that in the end, I found absolutely no joy in owning my particular slice of realism in that model, and sold it. John
I'm going to agree with Mike on that one, you can't listen too much to others - there is a point you have to enjoy the hobby on your own terms and leave the critics behind. There is a happy medium there after all, and don't forget ...
ModelRailroading is Fun!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
doctorwayneI won't go so far as to knock what's available today, but the market has changed (or been changed) and many prefer their models to be r-t-r, with no need for further embellishment. I think that Bachmann locomotives offer a reasonably-priced entry into that former era where the modeller could make something that was truly his, as most of those detail parts are still available. It's certainly not for everyone, but the sense of satisfaction at creating what you want, rather than simply buying it, should not be underestimated.
Wayne,
I think you touch on an important point. People are often shy about working on such projects. They think that they can't do as good a job as the folks at tthe factory, so why bother? But the only way to get those skills is to try and improve. Sure, the first project will be intimidating and likely won't meet your expectations.
But if RTR is not meeting your expectations, then what do you really have to lose? The next project turns out a little better, then the next, and pretty soon you no longer fear making a new RTR loco or car worse, you're anticipating improving it.
Then you start thinking about what you can build from scratch.
Obviously, not all of us turn into skillful modelers with such confidence. Even once you're able to turn out great models, there are ones that turn out not so great -- but you built it and still usually don't mind having it on the layout despite the imperfections. Heck, you have to get right up close and know what to look for with many "mistakes." At 3 feet, it's fine.
What really matters is not how perfect the models you modify or build are, it's the freedom of knowing you're no longer stuck with what the mfgs are willing to build. The what's "uinprototypical" about their latest release either doesn't matter or is a simple challenge to your improving skill set.
Bottom Line: Don't let your lack of confidence in your own abilities stand in the way of getting what you want. They will improve, but only if you choose to put them to work.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
riogrande5761 There is plenty of room for everyone, but it is often that extreem proto group that is quick to look down their nose at others. But why even give them acknowledgment? What is the saying about people who look down their noses at others, some might call them trolls these day? The thing trolls want is attention, they thrive on it. Best thing is to not feed the troll or the hyper critical train guy. Pay them no mind, seriously. I see way too much attention given to the negative Nancy's in the hobby. We've had enough of them. Please ... fugetubit! As pointed out above, it is questionable as to if there even was one "nose profile" at EMD, considering how they were made. One profile, plus or minus 2-3 inches. Sheldon Well and good, but I think there IS a consensus that there are a couple of models out there that do get the old EMD nose about as right as you will ever see, and those would be the Lubliner, Highliner F (Genesis F) and Rapido's FP7A (laser scanned from a prototype). I don't think we've seen an E unit done to quite that degree yet - I don't have a dog in that fight but that does seem to be the consensus - I'll givem them that due without a rebutt. PRR8259 No, I utterly reject the notion that the market determines what we get to buy. What, like the demand for RTR over kits? nuff said right there. Oh, and what about the most excellent, match the prototype, models from Moloco and Tangent? In fact, a relatively small, but very vocal, sub-segment of the market, which does want...basically the ultimate in detail...is determining what the rest of us are able to buy. But you rejected the market determines what we buy (above)? Aren't these very vocal customers a "market"? Ask Nick Molo, ask Jason Schron, ask David Lehbach, Ask Shane Wilson, ask Blaine Hadfield, etc... I purchased a brand new model of a diesel from one manufacturer, and posted a simple thread on another forum about how much I liked it. Unbeknownst to me, there were a couple omissions and things the manufacturer subsequently did fix on those models, but in the meantime, they were taken to task for the few things they did wrong, so much so that in the end, I found absolutely no joy in owning my particular slice of realism in that model, and sold it. John I'm going to agree with Mike on that one, you can't listen too much to others - there is a point you have to enjoy the hobby on your own terms and leave the critics behind. There is a happy medium there after all, and don't forget ... ModelRailroading is Fun!
Agreed, I was just responding to John who brought up that group who are even fussier than the OP, who was complaining about about port hole counts on AMTRAK E units.
As you and I know and have discussed, how close is close enough, and what do you do regarding models not available or for which good documentation does not exist for the day, time and year you are modeling? Just like the endless variations of closed up port holes on 30 year old AMTRAK E units?
Like Wayne, Mike and others have suggested, I think too many have unrealistic expectations considering the massive scope of North American railroad history.
The best models out there only represent a single digit percentage of the stuff I need to build a cohesive layout, and I don't have time to scratch build the rest.
And, I want to build and run trains, not spend my life doing research.
riogrande5761 What is the saying about people who look down their noses at others, some might call them trolls these day? The thing trolls want is attention, they thrive on it.
Jim,You and I seen the types that write if your models isn't 100% accurate you're just playing trains and they're not trolling by a country mile because they fully and truly believe it.
I suppose I cause a few of those good old boys to spit coffee or their drinks over they computer screen because I have said several times I still enjoy switching with my BB GP7 as much as I do with my Walthers P2K GP7 or my Genesis GP9. Some may consider that trolling but,it's the truth and they say the truth will stand when the worlds on fire.
I am also just as proud with my collection of BB and Roundhouse cars as I'm my Atlas,Walthers,Exact Rail,IM and Red Caboose cars. I have a small collection(around 30 cars) of KD 40' boxcars
Why do I have those KD cars?
I been thinking of a steam era ISL and that's how the collection started..
ATLANTIC CENTRALLike Wayne, Mike and others have suggested, I think too many have unrealistic expectations considering the massive scope of North American railroad history.
No doubt, there is an exhaustive amount of items across the last some 80 years that most products are covering. Probably the fact that model companies have increasingly raised the level of accuracy during the past 20 years has caused some modelers to have unrealistic expectations, it's true.
Me having started in the hobby as a teen in the 1970's, I'm tickled pink with what I can buy and realize we have it better than we ever have. Sadly, there are some who don't appreciate what we have today - in what I consider the golden age of the hobby (when you combine present, recent and past products we can access). What else can we do but let folks know that the world will never be perfect and try to appreciate what we have these days.
The best models out there only represent a single digit percentage of the stuff I need to build a cohesive layout, and I don't have time to scratch build the rest. And, I want to build and run trains, not spend my life doing research. Sheldon
Perhaps in model form the percentage is very small, but we have the best selection we have ever had, and with a little effort, we can build trains which are far more realistic looking compared to 20 or 30 years ago. I continue to be amazed at what Nick Moloe and David Lehlbach are offering - they even have photo's of the prototype that the model matches on their website to prove they are not foobies or stand-in's. At least for 1960's thru 1980's, which I know a little about, there is quite a bit from intermountain, Athearn/Genesis, Tangent, ExactRail, Moloco, Wheels of Time, Scale Trains, Atlas and Trainworx, that are very close matches to many prototypes.
Maybe 1% but the ratio of foobies to close to prototype models has been changing for the better. With a mininum of research using online resources and some printed material, you can find a lot of good stuff without taking a ton of time.
As Harry Wong said not long ago: "Model Railroading is insanely good these days". I agree.
How does what the market demands have anything to do with this topic?
In the context of this thread, the market obviously demands that Proto make a less than accurate E7/8.
So I would assume that what the market demands is not the issue. The issue appears to be that a small group of people constantly complain that the producers produce less than accurate models.
They complain that producers ARE meeting market demand.....but not their own.
- Douglas
BRAKIE Jim,You and I seen the types that write if your models isn't 100% accurate you're just playing trains and they're not trolling by a country mile because they fully and truly believe it.
You know, maybe in my teens and twenties I might have been bothered by those people, but I'm long long past caring about them now. Just get yourself a can of "Troll B-Gone" and spray them with it when they approach!
riogrande5761 BRAKIE Jim,You and I seen the types that write if your models isn't 100% accurate you're just playing trains and they're not trolling by a country mile because they fully and truly believe it. You know, maybe in my teens and twenties I might have been bothered by those people, but I'm long long past caring about them now. Just get yourself a can of "Troll B-Gone" and spray them with it when they approach!
Jim,I don't pay attention to them and some times I fell sorry for them since they don't see the big picture.
I've been in clubs that had members from all walks of life from high school students to a attorney yet,we held one thing in common our shared interest for model trains and railroads..
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Like Wayne, Mike and others have suggested, I think too many have unrealistic expectations considering the massive scope of North American railroad history. No doubt, there is an exhaustive amount of items across the last some 80 years that most products are covering. Probably the fact that model companies have increasingly raised the level of accuracy during the past 20 years has caused some modelers to have unrealistic expectations, it's true. Me having started in the hobby as a teen in the 1970's, I'm tickled pink with what I can buy and realize we have it better than we ever have. Sadly, there are some who don't appreciate what we have today - in what I consider the golden age of the hobby (when you combine present, recent and past products we can access). What else can we do but let folks know that the world will never be perfect and try to appreciate what we have these days. The best models out there only represent a single digit percentage of the stuff I need to build a cohesive layout, and I don't have time to scratch build the rest. And, I want to build and run trains, not spend my life doing research. Sheldon Perhaps in model form the percentage is very small, but we have the best selection we have ever had, and with a little effort, we can build trains which are far more realistic looking compared to 20 or 30 years ago. I continue to be amazed at what Nick Moloe and David Lehlbach are offering - they even have photo's of the prototype that the model matches on their website to prove they are not foobies or stand-in's. At least for 1960's thru 1980's, which I know a little about, there is quite a bit from intermountain, Athearn/Genesis, Tangent, ExactRail, Moloco, Wheels of Time, Scale Trains, Atlas and Trainworx, that are very close matches to many prototypes. Maybe 1% but the ratio of foobies to close to prototype models has been changing for the better. With a mininum of research using online resources and some printed material, you can find a lot of good stuff without taking a ton of time. As Harry Wong said not long ago: "Model Railroading is insanely good these days". I agree.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Like Wayne, Mike and others have suggested, I think too many have unrealistic expectations considering the massive scope of North American railroad history.
Jim, completely agreed.
I don't know how accurate the Proto E unit nose is, but my eye and my standards if fits what you are saying... it is wonderful that we have such great models.
To the OP's original complaint, which he was very vague about in his opening post, nose contures aside, the model in question is pretty accuate for an as built E8 or E9. This idea that every paint scheme, every renumbering, every trip to the shop can be represented with a different RTR version of a product is simply beyond the pale in terms of unrealistic expectations.
And while the OP said he was not complaining about prices, he seemed to be of the mind that prices are based on intangables like accuracy. Prices are based on cost to produce and dustribute, because if not, someone always undercuts your price.
RioGrande5761--
Seems you got just a little bit hasty with the cutting and pasting, and apparently did not fully read the rest of my post before reacting to it.
I said the market does not factor into what we are able to buy but rather a small but very vocal subset of the market which is rather loudly clamoring for the utmost levels of detail has a disproportionate influence over the rest of the market. Not everybody in the marketplace is clamoring for near-brass levels of detail, only a few--but they are the loudest few, and have no qualms about telephoning manufacturers and demanding what they want. The squeaky wheel gets the grease...until said manufacturer finds out the hard way that certain things do not sell...which has actually happened.
One manufacturer told me straight out that undecorated diesels did not sell--did not even make the minimum pre-order requirements--but as a form of "customer service" they did them anyway, at a loss (basically amortized over the costs of the rest of the production run, so hard to quantify actual loss). They told me they will not do undecorated diesels again, ever.
Certain people are clamoring loudly for ACL/SCL models, but the marketplace, with some limited notable exceptions, did not actually buy them, and now one manufacturer is stripping them for parts because they can't give them away.
So I reject the notion that the market as a whole determines what we get. It is the rather loud influence of a few.
Yes, a few boutique manufacturers are offering outstanding levels of detail, or a few outstanding items. But have you ever considered how many ordinary Athearn blue and yellow box freight cars are sold for every one specialty, higher end item? It's got to be quite a lot.
Not everybody wants to buy the highest end, fully detailed, see-through autoracks, for example.
Fortunately for my layout the Atlas steam era rtr boxcars fit the bill quite nicely, and I do not any longer need the newer (too new for steam era) high end, high detailed cars.
Portholes can be closed up by filling them with green stuff and sanding smooth. Or plating over with very thin styrene or brass. Lots of details can be changed. Some require only a little bit of effort and some require more. If you make the attempt, you are a modeler, even if your results aren't perfect. If you don't make the attempt, you are not a modeler but a purchaser. You have the right to be either one, or a combination of the two. You also have the right to suggest ways that a manufacturer can improve his product.
Steemtrayn's CNJ Geep can be improved by adding the extension with styrene, and touching up the paint. Actually, I think CNW also had extensions like this, so maybe there is an opportunity for an aftermarket parts manufacturer to make the part. He can make that change if he wishes, but he isn't violating any legal or ethical code if he doesn't. It's his hobby and his choice. Nobody makes a B&O Shark diesel that has the extra sandboxes that B&O added to their noses in the later years, but they can easily be added by anybody with a few scraps of styrene and an XActo blade.
I think you cross the line when you expect the manufacturer to do everything for you and cater to all the unique features of your chosen prototype.
Tom
Nice post, Tom.
Or if one desires, step up, spend the cash, and buy a "closer" to prototype version in brass, if/when it is available. Even then, it can be quite a challenge to find what one wants. Some models can be very difficult to find, at any price point.
ACY Portholes can be closed up by filling them with green stuff and sanding smooth. Or plating over with very thin styrene or brass. Lots of details can be changed. Some require only a little bit of effort and some require more. If you make the attempt, you are a modeler, even if your results aren't perfect. If you don't make the attempt, you are not a modeler but a purchaser. You have the right to be either one, or a combination of the two. You also have the right to suggest ways that a manufacturer can improve his product. Steemtrayn's CNJ Geep can be improved by adding the extension with styrene, and touching up the paint. Actually, I think CNW also had extensions like this, so maybe there is an opportunity for an aftermarket parts manufacturer to make the part. He can make that change if he wishes, but he isn't violating any legal or ethical code if he doesn't. It's his hobby and his choice. Nobody makes a B&O Shark diesel that has the extra sandboxes that B&O added to their noses in the later years, but they can easily be added by anybody with a few scraps of styrene and an XActo blade. I think you cross the line when you expect the manufacturer to do everything for you and cater to all the unique features of your chosen prototype. Tom
Completely agreed, we are now full circle. On page one I suggested the OP fill in the port holes, touch them up with some silver paint, weather the model to the typical poor condition of an AMTRAK E unit, and no one will know if he did a good job or not........
Modeling, it does seem that modeling the trains has been replaced by train collecting and layout building.......
Still interesred in building trains, not just structures and scenery......
John, great point, example, I have 4 Spring Mills Depot B&O wagon top covered hoppers, but I have eaaily 400 Athearn Blue Box freight cars......
That is about my ratio of high end vs average.
PRR8259 RioGrande5761-- Seems you got just a little bit hasty with the cutting and pasting, and apparently did not fully read the rest of my post before reacting to it.
I did read it, rest assured and still feel my points are valid with regard to the generalizations.
Qualified - that is a bit better! Don't worry, your in good company - I've gotten bit many times making generalizatons!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, a few boutique manufacturers are offering outstanding levels of detail, or a few outstanding items. But have you ever considered how many ordinary Athearn blue and yellow box freight cars are sold for every one specialty, higher end item? It's got to be quite a lot. John, great point, example, I have 4 Spring Mills Depot B&O wagon top covered hoppers, but I have eaaily 400 Athearn Blue Box freight cars...... Sheldon
If by Athearn blue and yellow box you mean Athearns modern RTR line, they offer some pretty nice stuff amongst them and if you are choosy, some are accurate for some prototypes - Athearns RTR line is quite decent in the past 10 years, even including some of the former Genesis line. The warmed over ex-Details West stuff I steer clear of although I still have a few original DW box cars from the olden days. I was looking at some wreck photo's on the D&RGW and low and behold, I saw a Nestle PC&F box car amonst them - thats the first time I saw an example of that prototype of what Athearn made - have one on the roster now.
I used to have a bunch of Athearn blue box rolling stock but I'm down to maybe 20-25 or so pieces, most of them 86' auto box cars, because they are the only game in town. One of these days a manufacturers may actually offer HQ quality Thrall 86' auto parts cars; I see people asking for them often.
The boutique stuff, like Spring Mill and Moloco (is Moloco Boutique?) are really nice and of course at $50-55 a pop, I can't afford many but they fill holes in the roster and provide some interesting models. I've got one of the B&O Canstock cars and one of the NATX PD cars, and plan on picking up on Chessie versions next time I'm at Timonium. The PD cars were regulars on the Rio Grande, reallyI could use a few more.
riogrande5761saw a Nestle PC&F box car amonst them - thats the first time I saw an example of that prototype
Russell
csxns riogrande5761 saw a Nestle PC&F box car amonst them - thats the first time I saw an example of that prototype They used to show up at the yards in Charlotte NC back in the 80's.
riogrande5761 saw a Nestle PC&F box car amonst them - thats the first time I saw an example of that prototype
They used to show up at the yards in Charlotte NC back in the 80's.
The wreck photo is the only prototype picure I've ever seen. Anyone know where the plant is that they served?
Old Fat Robert Would somebody, anybody or everybody please tell me what the original post was about? And then tell me what it is about now? Old Fat Robert
Would somebody, anybody or everybody please tell me what the original post was about? And then tell me what it is about now?
Old Fat Robert
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, a few boutique manufacturers are offering outstanding levels of detail, or a few outstanding items. But have you ever considered how many ordinary Athearn blue and yellow box freight cars are sold for every one specialty, higher end item? It's got to be quite a lot. John, great point, example, I have 4 Spring Mills Depot B&O wagon top covered hoppers, but I have eaaily 400 Athearn Blue Box freight cars...... Sheldon If by Athearn blue and yellow box you mean Athearns modern RTR line, they offer some pretty nice stuff amongst them and if you are choosy, some are accurate for some prototypes - Athearns RTR line is quite decent in the past 10 years, even including some of the former Genesis line. The warmed over ex-Details West stuff I steer clear of although I still have a few original DW box cars from the olden days. I was looking at some wreck photo's on the D&RGW and low and behold, I saw a Nestle PC&F box car amonst them - thats the first time I saw an example of that prototype of what Athearn made - have one on the roster now. I used to have a bunch of Athearn blue box rolling stock but I'm down to maybe 20-25 or so pieces, most of them 86' auto box cars, because they are the only game in town. One of these days a manufacturers may actually offer HQ quality Thrall 86' auto parts cars; I see people asking for them often. The boutique stuff, like Spring Mill and Moloco (is Moloco Boutique?) are really nice and of course at $50-55 a pop, I can't afford many but they fill holes in the roster and provide some interesting models. I've got one of the B&O Canstock cars and one of the NATX PD cars, and plan on picking up on Chessie versions next time I'm at Timonium. The PD cars were regulars on the Rio Grande, reallyI could use a few more.
Jim,
I think most of the cars you are refering to are way to new for my era. I do have my share of recent (last 15 years) Athearn Ready to Roll, but I also have lots of original blue box kits.
I model 1954, nothing you mentioned above is even on my radar.
40', 50' basic steel box cars, 34' hoppers, 40' reefers, the fleet of 50' piggyback flats I talked about earlier in this thread - that's the kind of stuff I have. And I have interest in replacing 45 years worth of purchases because they are not exact models - they all look the part.
I do have the 50' ATSF ice reefers from Athearn - very nice - I have all of them, and the ATLANTIC CENTRA has some too.....
I also have lots of MDC, old Athearn and Varney metal kits, various craftsman kits, Silver Streak, F&C, and more.
Moloco makes nothing I would ever own - outside my era.
I also have stuff like Fox Valley wagon top box cars, Spring Mills B&O wagon top cabooses (I do after all model the B&O along with my ATLANTIC CENTRAL). I have Branchline passenger cars, I also have lots of ConCor and Athearn 72' passenger cars and recent production Harriman style cars from Athearn/Roundhouse.
Yes, most of my passenger cars are freelanced/generic/selectively compressed - BUT - they run closed coupled with diaphragms that touch and have a fair amount of detail added were visable.
Do I care that they are too short or the window arrangements are generic? - not one bit. I have kit bashed many into a wider selection of types than made by those companies and they look great running close coupled on my broad curves.....
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Modeling, it does seem that modeling the trains has been replaced by train collecting and layout building.......
Nah, it's been replaced with whining online.
riogrande5761plant is that they served?
PRR8259...the market does not factor into what we are able to buy but rather a small but very vocal subset of the market which is rather loudly clamoring for the utmost levels of detail has a disproportionate influence over the rest of the market. Not everybody in the marketplace is clamoring for near-brass levels of detail, only a few--but they are the loudest few, and have no qualms about telephoning manufacturers and demanding what they want. The squeaky wheel gets the grease...until said manufacturer finds out the hard way that certain things do not sell...which has actually happened. One manufacturer told me straight out that undecorated diesels did not sell--did not even make the minimum pre-order requirements--but as a form of "customer service" they did them anyway, at a loss (basically amortized over the costs of the rest of the production run, so hard to quantify actual loss). They told me they will not do undecorated diesels again, ever. Certain people are clamoring loudly for ACL/SCL models, but the marketplace, with some limited notable exceptions, did not actually buy them, and now one manufacturer is stripping them for parts because they can't give them away. So I reject the notion that the market as a whole determines what we get. It is the rather loud influence of a few. Yes, a few boutique manufacturers are offering outstanding levels of detail, or a few outstanding items. But have you ever considered how many ordinary Athearn blue and yellow box freight cars are sold for every one specialty, higher end item? It's got to be quite a lot. Not everybody wants to buy the highest end, fully detailed, see-through autoracks, for example.
I'm rather circumspect in complaining about progress in the technology used in our hobby. People used to complain about DCC causing the costs of locos to climb. Now we mostly accept that as what sells. It's part of what makes the hobby attractive to younger folks.
Part of this is due to being a narrowgauger. We often adopt techniques and technologies before standard gaugers do. That, plus our relatively smaller numbers (remember that NGers come in various scales, so one model can't come anywhere close to covering all our needs) means most new production is rather costly, then the price drops as it comes into widespread use.
However, I don't begrudge the price of progress. It's what keeps the hobby fresh and hungry. It's what attracts the younger and more technically literate. Mostt of all, it's often what drives production decisions. If there's not a new feature, why bother producing more of an item? More detail is good, as I can see it in my pics. The only place where I don't want more detail is where it will break easily. In terms oif the actual models, we are approaching the point where it's harder to justify more detail, but I doubt the demandf for detail ever really will fall.
But if you want old-school stuff, rfemember it's out there, just take the trouble to find it.
ê