After reading the last few posts I wonder if this was what Steven meant by staying on topic? Oh ya, this is the weekend and he is off so go for it! Come Monday I predict the thread will be locked, that is unless there are more posts actually related to the OP's question.
Its amazing how anything scatocological draws so much interest!
Please understand I'm not being critical of the comments. Quite the contrary, I think they are funny. Disgusting perhaps, but none the less funny.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Do not feel like putting some old, dried, locally sourced Cat Poo into the junk coffee grinder.
Will stick with ground foam plus diluted latex paint.
Jeff,
I got some real manure I could send you, don't think it would work to well.
cowjock
Do you have a dog? Depending on the dogs size, the dog turds should fit the gondola just right. And you would be getting a fresh batch every day for each of your operating sessions.
True, horse manure doesn't smell as much early on, but once it has started to heat and gets some added moisture, it can be quite noticable. More likely to combust due to lower moisture content.
Have fun,
Richard
Eventually rail shipment was embargoed due to spontaneous combustion.
Yup. All those bacteria gorging on all those nutrients create a lot of heat. If you've ever driven by a large pile of manure on a cold damp day, what you'll see is what Drew Carey once characterized as "a steaming pile of good news". https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3143839-stock-footage-steaming-pile-of-horse-manure.html
Andre
cowman A good manure spreader salesman never stands behind his product!
A good manure spreader salesman never stands behind his product!
Ouch. That one stinks almost as much as the 1:1 prototype.
Seriously, as long as the color is right (straight manure or manure covered with straw), it really doesn't matter. Even in the larger scales, you're not going to be able to see the straw/undigested grass/etc.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
I'm sorry, but I don't see any egregious wandering off topic, and the few anecdotal asides help to keep the topic flowing and interesting. Who the heck has a conversation that doesn't wander a little bit?
Wayne
Well, when the Topic is modeling "Big Piles of Manure" WHY would THIS group drift from it??
Precisely!! If there's any topic that won't suffer from topic drift, it's this one.
And just to keep it (sort of) on topic, let me tell you about the trip home from an operating session last night. Going and coming, I have to pass Castroville, the self-proclaimed "artichoke capital of the world". I hadn't noticed anything on the way out, but the return trip was another matter altogether. Between the power plant at Moss Landing and the intersection of CA 1 and CA 156, I began to notice what was, in the beginning, a subtle tactical probe on my nose that rapidly turned into an all-out frontal assault. To quote the late Eric Lanal, in his pungent essay in RMC entitled "The Tunnel Through Mt. Nasty" http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/54472.aspx , the bouquet wafting through the air was "redolent of other than violets".
I'm not sure why the aroma was noticeable on the way home, but it could have been that there was a rain shower between the outbound and return journeys that refreshed the scent and gave it renewed power. There used to be a line of products called "Olfactory Airs" and one of those products was the aroma of manure. I think they went out of business years ago, but if one could somehow chemically simulate the subtle bouquet that did a D-Day number on my nose last night, I'm sure one could make a small fortune bottling it and selling it to those who model the transport of manure. The only caveat here is that to make a small fortune in this business, it would be advisable to initiate production having the advantage of having a large fortune.
Bring your gon out here, we can fill it for you...
Talk about the stuff hitting the fan!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
LensCapOnWell, when the Topic is modeling "Big Piles of Manure" WHY would THIS group drift from it??
In fairness to Steven, talking about my mother's innane adventures with manure in her gardens wasn't exactly valuable information, although it may explain some of my idiosyncrasies.
hon30critter Steven Otte Sorry Steven! My bad, again! Dave
Steven Otte
Sorry Steven! My bad, again!
Just remember not to model lilac berries in the manure loads. The animals cannot eat them... they are toxic. That could result in heliotoxicity every four weeks.
.
Seriously... after looking at the big pile of manure scene in Jurassic Park, I still believe Amaco Sculptamold is the best choice.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
To Andre - I hope you know I didn't post the 'Stay on Topic' photo.
I know. I think Steve was concerned that the thread would turn, as so many do, to .... well, you know. I can see why he would be concerned since the topic of the thread was about the stuff not available in a shoe polish can with a Shinola label on it.
The even bigger challenge is how to model the cloud of flies that must surely follow such a car.
Something tells me a gondola full of manure would have a "DO NOT HUMP" placard on it, as I can only imagine the results if the car had a very sudden and violent stop as it hit a standing car in a hump yard bowl.
I do know from local railroaders that they had all sorts of problems with offal shipped in open gons (called "gut cars") not only slurping over the edges and sides upon sudden stops, but also having small methane eruptions that caused sudden and unexpected overflows. Years after those loads ceased, when it came time to replace the ties on that trackage, with each old tie removed all the old odors would be released again and the ground was still spongy from the effect of decades of spilled offal.
I saw (and smelled) such cars as they were being delivered to a local industry and the flies were amazing to see and hear.
Dave Nelson
A Walthers search for "manure" comes up with a surprising number of entries, including manure enclosures with manure, loaded manure wagons, etc. Might render some ideas (although most appear to deal with horse manure, not cattle).
https://www.walthers.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=manure
If you can track down a copy of the book Ghost Rails V Butler Branch, there's at least one picture of such a thing.
As best I could describe, take some wax paper and spread a mix of fine dark ground foam colors and straw color 3mm static grass fibers into small oval mats about 15 scale feet across. Mist with alcohol, then dribble with dilute white glue. When dry, peel your mats up and trim to fit into the gondola. Make as many as you need to fill out the gon. Blend as needed with leftover mixture.
That's the best I can describe what they looked like.
jcopilot To Andre - I hope you know I didn't post the 'Stay on Topic' photo. To LensCapOn - I had limited my searches to manure with either gondolas or railroad in the search box. Searching simply for manure never occurred to me. Thanks. Why do so many people take pictures of animal poop? The Bing photos add a lot to the color and shape discussion. The few pictures I've seen of manure in gons show it to be piled up over the top of the gon sides. Thanks all, Jeff
To LensCapOn - I had limited my searches to manure with either gondolas or railroad in the search box. Searching simply for manure never occurred to me. Thanks. Why do so many people take pictures of animal poop? The Bing photos add a lot to the color and shape discussion. The few pictures I've seen of manure in gons show it to be piled up over the top of the gon sides.
Thanks all,
Jeff
. . . and, any gondola loads of manure I've seen have been almost completely covered with straw. This was used probably to reduce the odor. I can tell you, that, having worked around many organic materials, including manure, that these materials, when in a large pile (such as in a manure storage yard, or in a gondola), act like a compost pile, so they not only produce odor but heat as well. Any of the gondola loads of manure that I've seen have steam rising from them - - don't think that that can be modeled though.
When I build loads I start by using sheet styrene to build a base the interior dimension of the hopper or gondola. I cut a piece of chip board and glue it on top using CA (super glue). This makes it easier for the load to be glued on later. Next I make legs for it so that the load will be the proper height I want. Then I use Woodland Scenics products to create the load. Instead of filling the entire hold, the load only has to be a fraction of an inch and the load is one solid item which can be removed and reinstalled over and over again. I use this method for gravel and also for scrap. If you find the right scenic supplies I’m sure you can make it look like manure. Find the right color ‘dirt’ and mix in some very short lengths of hay or grass. Use white glue to attach it to the chip board.
I hope this helps.
There are many things that don't scale down very well, and I suspect this may be one of them. The real thing contains undigested fibers and such. In large quantities, it may be a sloppy mix of liquid and solids. I suggest using something like clay, colored appropriately. This reminds me of open gondolas of "fleshings" that were shipped out of tanneries after hides were cleaned for tanning, before the EPA existed.
Tom
Searching for Manure Pile works even better!!
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=manure%20pile&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=manure%20pile&sc=8-11&sp=-1&sk=
(looks like the right ground foam and a little paint staining would be a good start)
jcopilot Many thanks to all who have contributed to this post. To Ed who would like to see a photo - so would I. I've only seen a couple photos and they were taken at a distance, no detail. If any railfans ever saw manure loads pass by, they must not have considered them a photo-worthy subject.
Many thanks to all who have contributed to this post.
To Ed who would like to see a photo - so would I. I've only seen a couple photos and they were taken at a distance, no detail. If any railfans ever saw manure loads pass by, they must not have considered them a photo-worthy subject.
Do a search?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=manure&FORM=HDRSC2
Oh, and what scale of manure? (also, there is a compost/manure crossover point)
Lemme get this straight. You actually want us to stay on topic when the topic is modeling that which is other than Shinola?
I thought my idea of using the real thing and using a lapidary tumbler to reduce the particles of "that which comes not out of a can of shoe polish" to powder more closely resembling what would be produced by scale steers was a pretty good one. After all, the real thing already contains undigested bits of fibrous material which, when reduced in size by the friction of tumbling, will result in a highly realistic looking scale rendition of the prototype.
As for modeling offal, might I suggest taking tripe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripe , letting it dry, and then grind it into a powder of a coarseness determined by the relevant scale. This would be followed with stains of of various degrees of reddish brown for the proper coloring. Using a semi-gloss fixative to adhere the "offal" to a former should create a mild sheen that would reproduce the look of actual offal. Dried tripe, covered with an impermeable fixative, should also last quite a while, not really being subject to decomposition and the corresponding malodorous blitzkrieg resulting therefrom.
There was a series on modeling the meat packing industry in the old (Carstens owned) Railroad Model Craftsman October and November 2004 issues. As I recall, there actually was mention of offal and its handling.
Two methods of making the load come to mind. Sculptamold would make a good representation. Put some Saran Wrap in the car, fill it with a mound of Sculptamold, think I would color it first. Remember, most of this will probably be bedding, sawdust or chopped straw, thus a yellow shade of brown. Then add something that looks like straw before it dries. When dry, lift out of the car with the wrap, should settle right back in with the wrap removed.
The second method would be to cut and shape a piece of foam, paint and apply appropriate color of ground foam and static grass.
If you need a little more weight, cut a chunk out of the foam, insert a washer, nut or other ferrus metal of the needed weight, glue a plug back over the top. Load now removeable with a magnet. I doubt you'd need extra weight with the Sculptamold, but push in the weight into the soft product and smooth over. A small washer would be big enough if you just wanted to be able to lift out with a magnet.
Never moved manure in a train car, 200 bushel spreader about the biggest I have kicked the crap out of. Neighbor does liquid, that would call for tank cars.
I would try a bit of ground up ceiling tile and mix it with either plaster or drywall mud.
Let us know how it turns out.
YGW