I have a meat-packing plant located off my layout which I service thru an interchange and I would like to bring out gons full of manure, but I don't know how to model it.
Any ideas?
Jeff
Interesting question, maybe a soupy load of plaster slopped into a mold, then painted an appropriate brown color?
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I honestly believe that Sculptamold would do a great job of simuklating the load. Painting it to loo real will be interesting.
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-Kevin
Living the dream.
jcopilot I have a meat-packing plant located off my layout which I service thru an interchange and I would like to bring out gons full of manure, but I don't know how to model it. Any ideas? Jeff
It would be useful if you could supply a photo of the particular type of manure you've got in mind.
That said, I think i'd do a mix of smooth "plaster", some granularity, and some grass-like stuff. Maybe static grass for the latter. For the "granularity" I would make up some "plaster", break it up and filter it.
The coloring is very important.
Experiment with this and see if it looks right.
Ed
Neat topic. Instead of discussing what constitutes crappy modeling, we have a thread on what constitutes modeling crap.
Quite frankly, I'd just toss some real manure, suitably dried, into a lapidary tumbler and let it run for a few hours until it creates a fairly fine powder from the tumbling motion. You can then coat a foam former with it much it the same way you would put down ballast. The liquid from the thinned glue should refresh the aroma and you'll have authentic scale manure (both in the visual and olfactory sense). It'll look like crap and smell like crap. What more could a modeler want? What's even better, the unused contents of the 50 lb bag could be used to fertilize your lawn and garden. Waste not want not.
Andre
Don't forget gondola loads of offal for your layout's rendering plant, too.
Wayne
Andre!
Just remember to keep your spray bottle handy so you can mist the load when it dries out.
Dried manure doesn't smell much. I know this from experience. When I was a kid my grandparents had a farm. Years before my time the lower level of the barn had been used to house sheep. There was a considerable layer of dried manure built up on the floor. It had very little odour. My mother, being a very thrifty person, decided that the manure would be great for her gardens so she labouriously filled multiple bags with the stuff and dragged it home. Nobody had explained to her the concept of composting the manure before using it. The first time it rained after she had dutifully spread it all over the gardens the smell was overwhelming! You could smell it half a block away. I distinctly remember walking home from school one day and wondering what the horrible smell in the neighbourhood was. As things dried out the smell dissipated, but every time it rained the smell came back. That lasted most of the summer!
Seriously, I like the sculptamold suggestion with some straw mixed in. I would colour the sculptamold first, then add the straw when the mixture has dried a bit. Don't forget to model the straw loads going in too.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Dried manure doesn't smell much. I know this from experience. When I was a kid my grandparents had a farm. Years before my time the lower level of the barn had been used to house sheep. There was a considerable layer of dried manure built up on the floor. It had very little odour. My mother, being a very thrifty person, decided that the manure would be great for her gardens so she labouriously filled multiple bags with the stuff and dragged it home. Nobody had explained to her the concept of composting the manure before using it. The first time it rained after she had dutifully spread it all over the gardens the smell was overwhelming! You could smell it half a block away. I distinctly remember walking home from school one day and wondering what the horrible smell in the neighbourhood was. As things dried out the smell dissipated, but every time it rained the smell came back. That lasted most of the summer!
So you're saying he should work to scale down the smell too??
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Go to a farm if your near one and pick up some cow patties, you only need a couple to do a string of cars. If they are dried, crunch them up, shape them to what you need and then spray them with diluted white glue. You now have a manure load and it can't get anymore real.
Of course I would do all the prep outside.
Ask the farmer first Though.
Many thanks to all who have contributed to this post.
To Ed who would like to see a photo - so would I. I've only seen a couple photos and they were taken at a distance, no detail. If any railfans ever saw manure loads pass by, they must not have considered them a photo-worthy subject.
Ed and Mark suggested static grass to represent the straw. Great idea! I was wondering what I could use for that.
To those who suggested I use the real thing - uh, I don't think so. First, the manure in the cars would be fresh and look much different than the dried stuff I might use. Even a slight odor would be disagreeable in the closed train room.
To Andre - a wry observation - crappy modeling vs modeling crap. Funny.
Wayne - offal, indeed. I tried once to make a load of offal using Mod Podge, but it shrank badly. Another load lacking detailed photos showing color, consistency, contents.
Thanks again to everyone.
I believe if you go to the local home store or farm storm (Agway comes to mind but Home Depot might do (or in this case doodoo)) you can pick up a bag of deodorized manure. Use what you need for the gons and the rest as fertillizer for the garden.
Joe Staten Island West
I would try a bit of ground up ceiling tile and mix it with either plaster or drywall mud.
Let us know how it turns out.
YGW
Two methods of making the load come to mind. Sculptamold would make a good representation. Put some Saran Wrap in the car, fill it with a mound of Sculptamold, think I would color it first. Remember, most of this will probably be bedding, sawdust or chopped straw, thus a yellow shade of brown. Then add something that looks like straw before it dries. When dry, lift out of the car with the wrap, should settle right back in with the wrap removed.
The second method would be to cut and shape a piece of foam, paint and apply appropriate color of ground foam and static grass.
If you need a little more weight, cut a chunk out of the foam, insert a washer, nut or other ferrus metal of the needed weight, glue a plug back over the top. Load now removeable with a magnet. I doubt you'd need extra weight with the Sculptamold, but push in the weight into the soft product and smooth over. A small washer would be big enough if you just wanted to be able to lift out with a magnet.
Never moved manure in a train car, 200 bushel spreader about the biggest I have kicked the crap out of. Neighbor does liquid, that would call for tank cars.
Have fun,
Richard
Steven Otte
Lemme get this straight. You actually want us to stay on topic when the topic is modeling that which is other than Shinola?
I thought my idea of using the real thing and using a lapidary tumbler to reduce the particles of "that which comes not out of a can of shoe polish" to powder more closely resembling what would be produced by scale steers was a pretty good one. After all, the real thing already contains undigested bits of fibrous material which, when reduced in size by the friction of tumbling, will result in a highly realistic looking scale rendition of the prototype.
As for modeling offal, might I suggest taking tripe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripe , letting it dry, and then grind it into a powder of a coarseness determined by the relevant scale. This would be followed with stains of of various degrees of reddish brown for the proper coloring. Using a semi-gloss fixative to adhere the "offal" to a former should create a mild sheen that would reproduce the look of actual offal. Dried tripe, covered with an impermeable fixative, should also last quite a while, not really being subject to decomposition and the corresponding malodorous blitzkrieg resulting therefrom.
There was a series on modeling the meat packing industry in the old (Carstens owned) Railroad Model Craftsman October and November 2004 issues. As I recall, there actually was mention of offal and its handling.
jcopilot Many thanks to all who have contributed to this post. To Ed who would like to see a photo - so would I. I've only seen a couple photos and they were taken at a distance, no detail. If any railfans ever saw manure loads pass by, they must not have considered them a photo-worthy subject.
Do a search?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=manure&FORM=HDRSC2
Oh, and what scale of manure? (also, there is a compost/manure crossover point)
Searching for Manure Pile works even better!!
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=manure%20pile&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=manure%20pile&sc=8-11&sp=-1&sk=
(looks like the right ground foam and a little paint staining would be a good start)
To Andre - I hope you know I didn't post the 'Stay on Topic' photo.
To LensCapOn - I had limited my searches to manure with either gondolas or railroad in the search box. Searching simply for manure never occurred to me. Thanks. Why do so many people take pictures of animal poop? The Bing photos add a lot to the color and shape discussion. The few pictures I've seen of manure in gons show it to be piled up over the top of the gon sides.
Thanks all,
There are many things that don't scale down very well, and I suspect this may be one of them. The real thing contains undigested fibers and such. In large quantities, it may be a sloppy mix of liquid and solids. I suggest using something like clay, colored appropriately. This reminds me of open gondolas of "fleshings" that were shipped out of tanneries after hides were cleaned for tanning, before the EPA existed.
Tom
When I build loads I start by using sheet styrene to build a base the interior dimension of the hopper or gondola. I cut a piece of chip board and glue it on top using CA (super glue). This makes it easier for the load to be glued on later. Next I make legs for it so that the load will be the proper height I want. Then I use Woodland Scenics products to create the load. Instead of filling the entire hold, the load only has to be a fraction of an inch and the load is one solid item which can be removed and reinstalled over and over again. I use this method for gravel and also for scrap. If you find the right scenic supplies I’m sure you can make it look like manure. Find the right color ‘dirt’ and mix in some very short lengths of hay or grass. Use white glue to attach it to the chip board.
I hope this helps.
jcopilot To Andre - I hope you know I didn't post the 'Stay on Topic' photo. To LensCapOn - I had limited my searches to manure with either gondolas or railroad in the search box. Searching simply for manure never occurred to me. Thanks. Why do so many people take pictures of animal poop? The Bing photos add a lot to the color and shape discussion. The few pictures I've seen of manure in gons show it to be piled up over the top of the gon sides. Thanks all, Jeff
. . . and, any gondola loads of manure I've seen have been almost completely covered with straw. This was used probably to reduce the odor. I can tell you, that, having worked around many organic materials, including manure, that these materials, when in a large pile (such as in a manure storage yard, or in a gondola), act like a compost pile, so they not only produce odor but heat as well. Any of the gondola loads of manure that I've seen have steam rising from them - - don't think that that can be modeled though.
If you can track down a copy of the book Ghost Rails V Butler Branch, there's at least one picture of such a thing.
As best I could describe, take some wax paper and spread a mix of fine dark ground foam colors and straw color 3mm static grass fibers into small oval mats about 15 scale feet across. Mist with alcohol, then dribble with dilute white glue. When dry, peel your mats up and trim to fit into the gondola. Make as many as you need to fill out the gon. Blend as needed with leftover mixture.
That's the best I can describe what they looked like.
A Walthers search for "manure" comes up with a surprising number of entries, including manure enclosures with manure, loaded manure wagons, etc. Might render some ideas (although most appear to deal with horse manure, not cattle).
https://www.walthers.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=manure
The even bigger challenge is how to model the cloud of flies that must surely follow such a car.
Something tells me a gondola full of manure would have a "DO NOT HUMP" placard on it, as I can only imagine the results if the car had a very sudden and violent stop as it hit a standing car in a hump yard bowl.
I do know from local railroaders that they had all sorts of problems with offal shipped in open gons (called "gut cars") not only slurping over the edges and sides upon sudden stops, but also having small methane eruptions that caused sudden and unexpected overflows. Years after those loads ceased, when it came time to replace the ties on that trackage, with each old tie removed all the old odors would be released again and the ground was still spongy from the effect of decades of spilled offal.
I saw (and smelled) such cars as they were being delivered to a local industry and the flies were amazing to see and hear.
Dave Nelson
I know. I think Steve was concerned that the thread would turn, as so many do, to .... well, you know. I can see why he would be concerned since the topic of the thread was about the stuff not available in a shoe polish can with a Shinola label on it.
Just remember not to model lilac berries in the manure loads. The animals cannot eat them... they are toxic. That could result in heliotoxicity every four weeks.
Seriously... after looking at the big pile of manure scene in Jurassic Park, I still believe Amaco Sculptamold is the best choice.
Sorry Steven! My bad, again!
hon30critter Steven Otte Sorry Steven! My bad, again! Dave
LensCapOnWell, when the Topic is modeling "Big Piles of Manure" WHY would THIS group drift from it??
In fairness to Steven, talking about my mother's innane adventures with manure in her gardens wasn't exactly valuable information, although it may explain some of my idiosyncrasies.