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Who's wheels should I use for my Rivarossi and IHC/AHM PASSENGER cars?

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Who's wheels should I use for my Rivarossi and IHC/AHM PASSENGER cars?
Posted by DAVID FORTNEY on Sunday, December 18, 2016 5:03 PM

I would like to replace the plastic wheels with metal ones, also size. 

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, December 18, 2016 5:43 PM

This is a bit tricky. These cars had roughly 33" size wheels on the tread under them from the factory. But this was due to the deep flanges. They should have 36" wheels, but to install these, you'll need to either trim or bend the brake shoes enough to clear them. I used Jaybee back in the day. They're back after a lengthy hiatus, so may be available again. Other 36" wheels should work and others with experience may be able to suggest which ones.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by j. c. on Sunday, December 18, 2016 7:53 PM

DAVID FORTNEY

I would like to replace the plastic wheels with metal ones, also size. 

 

 

I would dump the trucks and replace them with better quality ones.

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Monday, December 19, 2016 2:24 PM

j. c.

 

 
DAVID FORTNEY

I would like to replace the plastic wheels with metal ones, also size. 

 

 

 

 

I would dump the trucks and replace them with better quality ones.

 

I agree.   I replace with good quality trucks with screw located at the correct pivot point . 

I also add weight for the proper weight and install long shank Kadee couplers on the car bodies . 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, December 19, 2016 5:25 PM

Hi David,

Good answers from the crew.

Just something to consider regarding the "skates" for your cars: How much did you want to invest in your cars? I only bring this up since, at one time or another, most of us are on a hobby budget.

If you want to hop up your cars (closer coupling, better detailed-more accurate trucks, body mounting couplers) then go for truck replacements. You will have to do a little work to adapt replacment trucks.

However, if you're on a budget, or just want your units to roll decently, you can save a few dollars by purchasing Proto 36" wheel sets and install them in the current trucks. MB Klein has quite a number in stock:

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Walthers-Proto-HO-920-2302-36-Wheelsets-p/920-2302.htm

I still have a small fleet of Rivarossi Budds that I bought back in the 80s. Although I metalized them I decided not to invest too much into them once the Walthers units hit the market back in the early 2000's.

The Proto 2000 36" wheel sets fit in the Rivorassi trucks' journals with no issues (other than either bending the brake clasps upwards. I just remove them). You can see the metal Proto wheels sets in the stock Riv trucks on my units below):

With the metal wheel sets and added weight, my Rivs actually track well when mixed in with my Walthers units.

I acknowledge that the stock trucks are a bit crude in appearance by today's standards but, again, this is just a "budgetary option".  Once weathered, they don't look too bad at all.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by DAVID FORTNEY on Monday, December 19, 2016 7:46 PM

Yes I am on a budget and being so I am not going to replace the trucks at this time. The suggesting of the wheels from Walthers and MTS seem to be the perfect solution.

thanks for the tips,

Dave

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, December 19, 2016 8:34 PM

Dave,

Glad it was helpful.

If you haven't done so, consider adding weight in addition to the metal wheel sets. You'll notice a difference in how nicely the cars roll even with stock trucks!

You can fill the car floor pockets with bird shot or BB pellets until they're flush with the floor.  Smother them with Elmer's glue so that they will stay in place. Then place your interior on top of the floor. 

Keep a food scale handy. Eight to ten ounces is a decent weight range for 85ft HO passenger cars. A friend of mine liked to weigh his cars down like bricks! He eventually realized that his locomotives were going to wind up with hot hernias! 

If you prefer, use flat steel bars or plates that stretch from bulkhead-end to bulk head-end. Avoid using flat weights that stretch just between the trucks or bolsters as your floor can sag in the long term. 

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by dknelson on Monday, December 19, 2016 8:47 PM

My recollection is that the AHM/Rivarossi cars were designed with their own wheels in mind (which I also recall were smaller than 33" - closer to 30") and that replacing them with accurate 36" wheelsets involved more than just shaving away the cast-on brake shoes, because the car height now also became "wrong."

Ditto for IHC cars.  IHC at least offers metal versions of their plastic wheels, meaning they are 31" and thus inaccurate but at least are drop in replacements needing no other work.  

http://www.ihc-hobby.com/category/33157122

They offer similar drop in metal replacements for AHM/Rivarossi cars

http://www.ihc-hobby.com/category/33157122?page_570515168=1

This means the wheel size would be wrong but no other work would be needed, which might be important to some.

Dave Nelson

 

 

 

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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, December 19, 2016 9:32 PM

Yes, the AHM trucks used wheels somewhere around 33". I don't have any, so I can't check. As I recall, they also had slightly short axles, so some replacements might  bind in those trucks. I believe Intermountain wheelsets come in a variety of axle lengths, so they may be a good choice if you can find the right ones. If you're deternmined to reuse the original AHM trucks, you might check the height of the car above the rails to see whether 33" or 36" replacements would work best.

As mentioned, the best solution would be to install better trucks. 

Tom

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, December 19, 2016 10:52 PM

I do remember reading years back (early 2000's) that the AHM-IHC-Riv cars used 31" NEM wheel sets (which were infamously labeled as "pizza cutters").

Below is a Walthers Budd unit (left) and a Rivarossi Budd unit (right). The wheel sets on the Riv were replaced with Proto 2000 wheel sets. No problema as far as height.

However, one oddball annoyance posed by the Riv units is that the truck bolster is almost 1/16" tall, making the body sit a bit high, as seen here:

Simple solution is to shave down the bolster and install a flat washer that's 1/32" thick (plastic or metal) to prevent the body from waddling like a penguin. The final height should be something like this:

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:03 AM

I had trouble fitting standard length axles in my Rivarossi passenger cars and ended up getting Reboxx wheels with 1.020" axles.  The axle length in Rivarossi cars is apparently all over the place, so it would be best to test fit an axle in each of your cars to make sure they'll work first.

_________________________________________________________________

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:44 AM

I used Kadee 36" wheels on my Rivarossi cars, which required shaving the brake shoes on the trucks just a bit:  A new #11 blade easily took car of that.
I added underbody details, some basic interiors (seats and partitions), and about 8oz. of weight:

Wayne

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Posted by mlehman on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 7:24 AM

Found my box of Jay-Bee leftovers. No axles, as they went on the cars I have, so can't help with part #s on those.

However, Jay-Bee did make coupler mounting pads sized to deal with the small changes in coupler mount heights caused by applying the correct size wheels. I have the following for Kadee coupler mounting:

#111 Rivarossi 1920 except Bag/RPO

#112 Rivarossi 1930

#117 AHM corrugated

There is enough to do 3 cars in each package. MSRP was $2.75, circa 1990 IIRC. These allowed body mounting the couplers at the correct height once all else was squared away. Could be fabbed from small bits of plastic sheeting, but the J-B items make it easy and quick.

 

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 9:39 AM

David,

here's a shot where you can see the metal wheels more clearly. This is a Rivarossi unit that I upgraded back in 2008 ( I think).

After cutting off the skirts, I paint stripped and metalized it. Afterwards, added the MV lenses, added BB pellets for weight, installed metal Proto wheel sets, and painted the interior. I remember that on a "push test" it rolled smoothly.

Since the Rivs are basically generic Budds, I use them as "fillers" for my SCL and ACL 1960's era streamliners.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by hdtvnut on Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:31 PM

I replaced the 31" wheels on three sets of IHC cars with KD 33" wheels, using a Truck Tuner to optimise the journals.  They coast very nicely.

Hal

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Posted by nealknows on Saturday, December 31, 2016 1:50 PM

Is there any passenger truck that can replace the IHC/Rivarossi passenger trucks? I put in the 36" Kadee wheels, reamed out both sides (one side is tough to get the reamer in due to the plastic that holds the McHenry coupler). Still rolls rough. Took the x-acto knife to train the bake shoes. Broke two, had to take the other to off (geez I can't believe I did that). 

If I'm going to get them to roll with ease, I think I should put new trucks on them. Also, I'll use the Kadee conversion kit for couplers.

Thanks to everyone who replies!

Neal

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Posted by j. c. on Saturday, December 31, 2016 2:25 PM

nealknows

Is there any passenger truck that can replace the IHC/Rivarossi passenger trucks? I put in the 36" Kadee wheels, reamed out both sides (one side is tough to get the reamer in due to the plastic that holds the McHenry coupler). Still rolls rough. Took the x-acto knife to train the bake shoes. Broke two, had to take the other to off (geez I can't believe I did that). 

If I'm going to get them to roll with ease, I think I should put new trucks on them. Also, I'll use the Kadee conversion kit for couplers.

Thanks to everyone who replies!

Neal

 

 

what to use would depend on how pickey you are about  staying close to proto. i used walthers  pullman type 2411 pt#933-1086 , back in the days when i had money(before retiring) walthers had a kick but specal sale on them and i ordered 25 sets (only got 22 all they had in stock) used them on all my Riv/AHM/Ihc  cars.

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Posted by nealknows on Saturday, December 31, 2016 3:28 PM

Hi J.C.,

I found the new Walthers match for them. Will try a pair and see how it goes...

Thanks!

Neal

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Posted by j. c. on Saturday, December 31, 2016 11:34 PM

nealknows

Hi J.C.,

I found the new Walthers match for them. Will try a pair and see how it goes...

Thanks!

Neal

 

 

should have told you in other post these require a new mounting pad as mounting hole is not centered,like original truck.

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Posted by Benjamin Maggi on Thursday, January 5, 2017 3:28 PM

I picked up four IHC heavyweight cars recently, and replaced the wheels with Intermountain 33" ones. However, the trucks were so fragile that two snapped while just removing the wheels. I experimented some more with the broken trucks and easily cracked it elsewhere. How people can shoehorn in 36" metal wheels is beyond me, as they bind and any attempt to modify the trucks will lead to irrepairable fractures.

Now, I need to find a pair of replacement trucks. IHC sells them for $8 EACH truck! I only paid $9 for the car itself!

I wish there was an easy heavyweight truck swap for these IHC/AHM cars!

Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/

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Posted by CRIP 4376 on Thursday, January 5, 2017 8:03 PM

I use Kadee 36 in wheels.  For weight, I go to Walmart and buy a package of oval fishing sinkers (different weights available) and smash them flatter with a hammer and then glue them in with Bond 527.  I borrowed the fishing sinker tip on one of these forums and it works well.

Ken Vandevoort

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Posted by Rook2324 on Tuesday, January 10, 2017 12:43 AM

Hi,

Could you give us the number etc. for the new Walthers match for walthers  pullman type 2411 pt#933-1086

Thanks

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Posted by benscaro on Monday, May 21, 2018 3:49 AM

Hi, these 31" wheels sound interesting since I model in TT3 or British TT scale. What size axle do they have ?

 

Regards,  Ben S.

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, May 21, 2018 3:07 PM

I've mostly just used 33" freight wheels in AHM / Rivarossi passenger car trucks. Intermountain semi-scale ones work well, but most any will work.

Easiest solution re couplers is to use the snap-in replacement couplers from McHenry. The Kadee talgo conversion kit is a lot of work, easier (if you have broad enough curves) to just body-mount the Kadees.

Stix

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