I never built a diesel or steam engine when I first started over 40 plus years and still have not. I saw no reason to do it.
I learned about model railroading mostly from the magazines of the day and just doing it, sometimes wrong but mostly right.
There is no right or wrong way to model. If you like to build kits then do it but for me building kits was never a priority.
Trying to divide who enjoy model trains into two groups, people who build kits are the true model railroaders and those who don't are just playing with trains. This is not good for the hobby in general.
There is nothing wrong in buying RTR, from locomotives, freight cars or buildings. Do what is right for you and don't listen to all the nay Sayers.
Well, the hobby is divided into 2 segments, RTPW (Ready To Play With) and SARBPW (Some Assembly Required Before Playing With). I do hear, however that there is a secretive segment that regards assembly in and of itself as the alpha and omega of the hobby, in which case playing with the stuff is strictly verboten and will get you hauled before whatever self-styled hobby Torquemada this group can come up with. In that case, this group will burn you at a 1:48, 1:64, 1:87, 1:160 scale stake as is deemed appropriate.
Andre
Andre, you are just too funny........
So here are a few more thoughts.
I buy my share of RTR, but I have yet to take one out of the box, put it on the layout, and be happy with it, except for possibly the stuff from Spring Mills Depot.
First, every piece of rolling stock must have genuine standard head Kadee couplers.......
Second, most get my special freight trucks, Kadee sprung/equalized metal trucks re-fitted with Intermountain wheelsets.
Then, all are slated for some light weathering, but there is a backlog in the paintshop.....
Then some need some up grades, example, the new Bachmann piggyback flats ride too high, so they get the new trucks, bolster mods, and offset head couplers to get the decks the right height. Now they are ready.
But for me, that's part of the fun.......
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Andre, you are just too funny........ So here are a few more thoughts. I buy my share of RTR, but I have yet to take one out of the box, put it on the layout, and be happy with it, except for possibly the stuff from Spring Mills Depot. First, every piece of rolling stock must have genuine standard head Kadee couplers....... Second, most get my special freight trucks, Kadee sprung/equalized metal trucks re-fitted with Intermountain wheelsets. Then, all are slated for some light weathering, but there is a backlog in the paintshop..... Then some need some up grades, example, the new Bachmann piggyback flats ride too high, so they get the new trucks, bolster mods, and offset head couplers to get the decks the right height. Now they are ready. But for me, that's part of the fun....... Sheldon
OK, I was wrong. There are actually 3 segments to the hobby. There's Ready To Play With, Some Assembly Required Before Playing With, and Stuff Sheldon Has To Mess Around With Before Playing With (SSHTMAWBPW).
andrechapelonOK, I was wrong. There are actually 3 segments to the hobby. There's Ready To Play With, Some Assembly Required Before Playing With, and Stuff Sheldon Has To Mess Around With Before Playing With (SSHTMAWBPW). Andre
You left out Ready To Look At (RTLA)
Paul
richhotrainand the urging that "every modeler should build a steam and diesel locomotive kit", I come away feeling like a second class modeler.
Second class? You? Not likely.
No,building a locomotive kit or just disassembling and assembling one will give the modeler basic knowledge and instead of asking "how do I remove the shell or gear plate from a Atlas RS11 they will have that basic knowledge.
I don't think learning these basic skills would make any modeler a second or even third class modeler.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
IRONROOSTER andrechapelon OK, I was wrong. There are actually 3 segments to the hobby. There's Ready To Play With, Some Assembly Required Before Playing With, and Stuff Sheldon Has To Mess Around With Before Playing With (SSHTMAWBPW). Andre You left out Ready To Look At (RTLA) Paul
andrechapelon OK, I was wrong. There are actually 3 segments to the hobby. There's Ready To Play With, Some Assembly Required Before Playing With, and Stuff Sheldon Has To Mess Around With Before Playing With (SSHTMAWBPW). Andre
Yeah, and I also left out RTCBA (Ready To Complain Bitterly About), which itself has several sub-headings like RTCBA-TE (TE = Too Expensive), RTCBA-NICP (NICP = Not In Continuous Production), RTCBA-NBP (NBP = Not Bloody Prototypical), RTCBA-POR (POR = Pre Order Required) and so on.
Well, I'd sum it all up as different strokes for different folks. An example, one fellow commented elsewhere that he's not keen on converting DC locos to DCC/sound. For me, it's (for diesels, at least) one of my currently favorite activities. We're both right.
P.S. - I'm hoping Scale Trains offers some earlier ear (not 50') freight car kits as they seem to be offering some high quality products.
I prefer to build freight car kits, mostly the simple to moderate, not too difficult ones. I have a Tichy crane to attack, looking forward to that. I do remember building a (LaBelle) wood coach kit in H.S. that I got to the 80% done stage, when a substantial RR book I also got for Christmas slipped from its cover and smashed the coach to smithereens (not sure about the spelling). Still brings tears to my eyes.
I like to build stucture kits as well. I did buy a Roundhouse 4-6-0 kit this year that is sitting in a box awaiting a mood to tackle it. So, I like building when I can but don't attempt it on most all locos, passenger cars, etc. I'm kinda of the middle, it seems, on scenery as I've been procrastinating the finishing touches after installing the rough forms.
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
hon30critterI apologise in advance. I am now about to sound like a really old fart! The RTR craze is robbing many modellers of the opportunity to actually 'model' in terms of creating or kit bashing rolling stock to suit their own needs. By choosing to go the RTR route they are missing a part of the hobby which is very rewarding. However, that is ultimately their choice and they are free to make it.
When I said that modellers who prefer RTR are missing a part of the hobby I in no way intended to label them as second class modellers. This is a hobby where each of us can do as we see fit, and there is no right or wrong.
What I was trying to express is my belief that kit building, kit bashing and scratch building are enormously rewarding. I believe that in some cases there is a reluctance to go outside of the RTR range of models because of a lack of confidence. That is where I totally encourage people to take the leap, as it were. With a very few exceptions, everyone who does that will be rewarded with their efforts even though they will go through a learning process with the inherent failures. It's like airbrushing. Nobody who has learned to airbrush would say to a modeller who hasn't tried airbrushing yet to not bother if they are afraid.
With respect to everyone,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
years ago (1970's) I used to buy balsa wood kits in HO scale. I made a reefer and a stock car. No sliding doors, and a weight was glued on the inside. May have been something local only, as I have never seen them since
Has anybody ever put together a kit by Cannonball Car Shops? I have one of their B&O wagontop boxcars, and it is of such poor quality, it's unbuildable. I just keep it around for laughs, and with Fox Valley and ExactRail offerings,completion of this kit is unnecessary.
Paul, assembling the Tichy crane will be a pleasure, just be extra careful putting together and installing the pullies.
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
I'm brand new to the hobby and I build kits. Locomotives as a kit don't really bother me one way or the other anyway, because I end up having to tear them down at some point and clean it all out.
The only loco I'm somewhat afraid of doing this on is my BLI E9.There are so many details that I can barely pick it up without being worried I'll damage something.
My main issue with kits is that the sellers usually don't have what I want. I model 1970s UP/SP/WP traffic, and what's available here is what's local (SOO, CNW, WC, MILW).
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
steemtrayn Has anybody ever put together a kit by Cannonball Car Shops? I have one of their B&O wagontop boxcars, and it is of such poor quality, it's unbuildable. I just keep it around for laughs.
Has anybody ever put together a kit by Cannonball Car Shops? I have one of their B&O wagontop boxcars, and it is of such poor quality, it's unbuildable. I just keep it around for laughs.
Yes, I saw that kit and also concluded it's probably unbuildable. But as you suggest, the ExactRail M-53 makes the point moot. The Fox Valley M-53 is almost as good IMO. For those seeking a challenge, F&C makes kits for both the M-53 and the even more interesting earlier B&O M-15 wagon top boxcar.
When a company releases an unbuildable kit, that company is usually richly rewarded with abject failure. It's a sort of natural selection (or de-selection) process. How many CCS wagontop boxcar kits were ever built? I don't recall ever seeing one. How many have been sold lately? On the other hand, those companies who release high quality, well-engineered kits tend to stick around. Al Westerfield retired, but his successor is still running the business. Sunshine only stopped production after the death of the owner. F&C, Wright Trak, Red Caboose, Laserkits, Intermountain, Tichy, and many others continue to be available because they have established records for high quality.
Earlier in this discussion, the point was made that we learn much more about the equipment if we put it together ourselves, part by part. When I first started out in HO, the typical starting point was an Athearn boxcar kit. I was in middle school at the time. But other interesting kits existed, and I built kits by TruScale, Main Line, Ambroid, and many others. When resin kits began to appear about 20-25 years ago, I jumped on the bandwagon and adapted to the new materials and construction methods. I gradually began to learn more and more about the way the equipment was put together, and how one car differed from another. There are still lots of gaps in my knowledge, but I do think I am able to make decisions that are much better informed when I shop for equipment, or build the kits and operate the equipment I have.
The result? I was able to improve my manual skills, expand my knowledge of the prototype, expand my ability to do repairs, and I was also able to add items that were unavailable in any other form. Kitbuilding gave me the grounding to be able to graduate to scratchbuilding. As I said recently on another thread, a scratchbuilt project is nothing but a kit that you engineer yourself.
I believe those who don't build kits are limiting themselves. Of course, that's their right, but I think they ought to make that choice with their eyes open.
Tom
ACY I believe those who don't build kits are limiting themselves. Of course, that's their right, but I think they ought to make that choice with their eyes open.
And, really, why should we? It's not as if we are not true modelers until we finally do build a freight car kit. If anything, freight car kits were probably a "kit craze" back in the 70's and 80's. I got into the HO scale side of the hobby in early 2004. So-called RTR freight cars were widely available, so why not simply buy them?
And, mind you, there is no historical significance to freight car kits. Before they showed up, American Flyer and Lionel were marketing RTR freight cars back in the 1940's when I was a kid.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain ACY I believe those who don't build kits are limiting themselves. Of course, that's their right, but I think they ought to make that choice with their eyes open. Ya know, it's one thing to start a thread and have a discussion about why doesn't anyone build freight car kits anymore. But, why does it have to drift into a hand wringing lament over those that don't when, probably, the majority of the members of this forum have never even built a freight car kit? And, really, why should we? It's not as if we are not true modelers until we finally do build a freight car kit. If anything, freight car kits were probably a "kit craze" back in the 70's and 80's. I got into the HO scale side of the hobby in early 2004. So-called RTR freight cars were widely available, so why not simply buy them? And, mind you, there is no historical significance to freight car kits. Before they showed up, American Flyer and Lionel were marketing RTR freight cars back in the 1940's when I was a kid. Rich
Ya know, it's one thing to start a thread and have a discussion about why doesn't anyone build freight car kits anymore. But, why does it have to drift into a hand wringing lament over those that don't when, probably, the majority of the members of this forum have never even built a freight car kit?
Rich, actually 1/4" scale two rail, all from kits goes back as far as LIONEL.
But speaking strickly about HO, when HO started it was all craftsman kits, 30's/40's. While the 50's did see RTR, most was poor quality until the 80's at the earliest.
So all of us who started this hobby in the "dark ages" learned to build kits, rolling stock, locos, structures, track, all from kits. That's how it was in 1968, if you wanted the train to actually stay on the track, you built it.
Would I want to go back?, no. Do I wish products were more "on the shelf" like back then?, yes. Do I still like building at least some of my rolling stock?, very much so.
For me, 2004 was ten minutes ago in the history of my experiance with model trains..........
I started in the hobby back in 1975. Back then there was RTR, in the form of TYCO and AHM predominately. Even as a kid, I saw that Athearn BB Locos and Cars and MDCs were much better detailed and rolled much more freely. They were simply a better quality product.
I never had the inclination for building a craftsman kit.....I wasn't into needing that much detail or specificity.
Now days, the Athearn BB and MDCs are considered crude and the RTR stuff is higher quality (in terms of detail). The RTR stuff now is the same quality as craftsman kits were back in the day, IMO, in terms of wire details and stellar paint jobs. The world evolves. Like most things, if I have the money handy, I'll buy it rather than take the time to build it.
Having said that, I need to slightly weather my cars, or replace the couplers, or do something to them to make them "my own" and not just the thing I bought and put on the layout. I find the equipment that I personalize in even the slightest ways has more appeal to me than equipment that is simply another clone from the factory.
- Douglas
Yup. I'm even (re)building old BB kits I've had since the 80s, when I didn't see the value in upgrading wheelsets, etc from the kit-provided plastics.
That said, I buy a substantial amount of RTR stock now, that more than meets a 'good enough' modeling threshold.
I'd rather spend my hobby time honing skills I never learned properly, like weathering and superdetailing, than snapping and screwing together BB kits.
As much as I enjoy kits, I'm not opposed to purchasing a piece of RTR rolling stock - i.e. if that's the only form it comes in. In fact, I just picked up one of the newly released Tangent 8,000 gal tank cars in "The Globe Soap Company - Cincinnati, OH" lettering.
Had it come in kit-form? I'd be all over it and would look forward to wiling away the time meticulously putting it together. However, RTR was all that was available for that particular road name so I'll take it how I can get it. Given my Ohio roots, it will hold a special place along side my assembed Intermountain and Proto2000 tank cars.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
richhotrain Give the rest of us a break, fellas. Just because we buy and run locomotives and rolling stock out of the box doesn't, or at least shouldn't, reduce us to second class modelers. It is all fine and good if you like to build from kits, but why castigate those of us who don't? Rich
Give the rest of us a break, fellas. Just because we buy and run locomotives and rolling stock out of the box doesn't, or at least shouldn't, reduce us to second class modelers. It is all fine and good if you like to build from kits, but why castigate those of us who don't?
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Why do certain threads remind me of songs?
Like "Aquarius" from the musical "Hair". Most of the below, but not certainly not all is from the original.
-------------------------
Apologies to Harry Belafonte
Daylight, Day-ay-ay-light
Daylight come straight outta de box
Day, me say day, me say day, me say day
Me say day, me say day-o
Run Daylight while I chew de gum,
Straight outta de box just ain't no fun,
Run Daylight til de morning come
Straight outta de box just ain't no fun.
Go to de hobby shop, buy myself a Daylight
Get back in car, take Daylight home
Run six car, seven car, eight car train
Ready to run give me a pain
Six car, seven car, eight car train
------------------------------
DoughlessI started in the hobby back in 1975. Back then there was RTR, in the form of TYCO
I have fond memories of Tyco. I started with Tyco trains in 1971 with Atlas track, electrical components, and buildings. My first kit was the Atlas station followed by the signal tower and lumberyard. I moved onto MDC kits, Central Valley, LaBelle Woodworking, Bowser. Then I did some scratch building of cars and buildings.
But I have to say I had a lot of fun with those old Tyco trains. Maybe more than I do these days. And there was an undercurrent of having fun with trains that seems to be missing these days. With fictional railroads like the Gorre & Daphetid, the Troll & Elfin, etc. and dinosaur locomotives and the Miracle Chair Company, and so forth, humor was there.
DoughlessI started in the hobby back in 1975. Back then there was RTR, in the form of TYCO and AHM predominately.
Atlas was RTR and there was Mantua as well but,wait! RTR dates back to the 50s with brass engines,brass passenger cars and some plastic RTR cars from Life Like,Varney and Revelle. There was Penn-Line RTR as well.Athearn tried RTR in the early 60s.
I'm joining this discussion late but I'll throw my in. I thought this hobby was model railroading not model building. There are many hobbies within this hobby. How someone goes about building their model railroad is a matter of personal choice. If one wants to scratchbuild, kit build, kit bash, or by RTR what difference does it make. The end product is what it's about, not how the sausage was made.
To answer the OP, I would guess about half of my freight car fleet is kit built, most Athearn BB when they were offering kits and lately Accurail. I can throw an Accurail boxcar together in about 10 minutes, 15 counting the weathering and they operate just fine. I subsitute P2K trucks, KD couplers, and add weight. I really don't care that some of the detail is molded on. In fact I prefer it that way. Less things to break off.
jecorbettI thought this hobby was model railroading not model building. There are many hobbies within this hobby.
Absolutely.. As much as I mention 90% of my layouts been ISLs my hobby without a doubt is emulating prototype switching and to emulate what I did when I worked as a brakeman and running mindless loops has never been my cup of tea.YMMV and that all well and dandy.
As some may recall I started building ISLs way back in the 60s..My other hobby within the hobby is collecting IPD short line boxcars.
I don't feel any less of a modeler because I've never built a craftsman structure kit or a plastic car kit that contains a zillion itty bitty pieces. I did build a B&O I-5 and a PRR N6B wood caboose kits back in the 60s.
BRAKIE Doughless I started in the hobby back in 1975. Back then there was RTR, in the form of TYCO and AHM predominately. Atlas was RTR and there was Mantua as well but,wait! RTR dates back to the 50s with brass engines,brass passenger cars and some plastic RTR cars from Life Like,Varney and Revelle. There was Penn-Line RTR as well.Athearn tried RTR in the early 60s.
Doughless I started in the hobby back in 1975. Back then there was RTR, in the form of TYCO and AHM predominately.
Mantua had a RTR train set as far back as 1937. http://www.hoseeker.net/mantuainformation/mantuacatalog1937pg09.jpg The complete set cost $59.50 (just under $1000 in today's currency).
You could get an RTR Varney Pacific in 1940 for $75 (equivalent of $1295 today) http://www.hoseeker.net/varneyinformation/varneycatalog1940pg16.jpg
During the 50's, Varney, Athearn, Mantua and Pennline all offered train sets, although Mantua began selling the RTR stuff under the TYCO label.
Yes, in 1975 I do remember Mantua. I think Model Power also was an RTR label, in addition to Tyco and AHM. I think Varney was gone by then.
Tyco, AHM, Mantua, Model Power....I thought Athearn BB kits were better than all of them at the time.
It occurs to me that the more of this thread I read, the more some people may be missing the point. None of us are lacking in things to do on our railroads, there is always something to be improved, changed or added. That being said, why is whether or not we build our rolling stock or not even relevant? We still have to check and adjust wheel gauges, couplers, truck movement, etc.
In the grand scheme, it's really a drop in an endless sea of things to do on a model railroad. The time will be spent somewhere else in the hobby.
The cars on the left with the silver vans started life as kits,
while the ones on the right with the painted vans started life as Ready to Roll.
Both have been reworked with the same modifications:
I still build lots of these kinds of kits, made when I was child and before:
And I just bought four of these:
http://www.springmillsdepot.com/n-34modelphotos.htm
Still firmly in both camps - kits and RTR
For those who are truly interested in building diesels from kits, Hobbytown of Boston is going back into production.
Fred W
I don't mind kits. I build them with my kid and we have a good time.
I will say a lot of the complicated ones do make me angry, but that is due to me not having time, patience or solitude to work in.
I like the stuff we can knock out in a night or two in between getting to the club.
I still have a good amount of kits left to build. Need a lot of work on my grab iron technique......................those things make me flat out angry.
I'm dying to see what else Scaletrains does in their Kit Classic line, would be nice to see more quality kits nowadays.