Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Potential Walthers HO Scale Name Trains

8197 views
51 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    August 2016
  • 13 posts
Potential Walthers HO Scale Name Trains
Posted by Southbound Night Train on Sunday, September 4, 2016 4:02 PM

So, I have been pondering the idea of, "What will be Walthers' next name train". I have been hoping for some certain ones, but I do have ideas for other ones. My list includes:

-Northern Pacific's "North Coast Limited"

-Amtrak's "Surfliner" (Not exactly a name train, but it will be nice to see an HO Scale Surfliner that isn't brass)

-New Haven's "Merchants Limited" or "Yankee Clipper"

-Lehigh Valley's "Black Diamond"

-Santa Fe's "San Diegan"

-Wabash's "Wabash Cannonball" or "Bluebird"

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 3:06 PM

Rapido's already got a start on the Merchants Limited:  FL9's and coaches.  So it's unlikely Walthers will go that direction.

 

I would add a whole passle of Burlington trains could be done.  Especially since they've announced some E9's for that railroad.  I'd very much like to see the Twin Cities Zephyr:  a 7 car train with 5 domes.  That's FIVE domes, folks.  In seven cars.

 

The problem with the North Coast Limited (I think) is that the cars Walthers has already done in that scheme have the wrong colors.  So Walthers would have to decide whether they would continue making the train in the wrong color or do them in the correct color.  Someone loses (and complains) either way.

 

The same thing happened with their Empire Builder.  That one (the green and orange) had the wrong colors.  And they've kept doing them that way.  Which means that all the cars match.  And all are the wrong colors.

 

All of which would make doing the Burlington cars a good idea:  no color choices to make.  Or argue about.

 

 

Ed

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 237 posts
Posted by JEREMY CENTANNI on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 4:33 PM

I'm going to go with "Name Trains One Can Afford".

Those would be the coolest to me.

I like them, I want them but man they get you for them.

  • Member since
    January 2013
  • 1,034 posts
Posted by PM Railfan on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 5:47 PM

"Potential Walthers HO Scale Name Trains"

 

How about the "Pere Marquette"? And before anyone chimes in - "hey they did that one already!"....  um, no, they didnt.

Still waiting for a "real" Pere Marquette. Not a C&O version, not a Polar Express version.... a REAL Pere Marquette.

 

PM Railfan

  • Member since
    August 2016
  • 13 posts
Posted by Southbound Night Train on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 6:29 PM

You know, I didn't know about that Pere Marquette.

You learn something everyday.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2016
  • 13 posts
Posted by Southbound Night Train on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 6:44 PM

Go figure, they did just announce E8s/9s.

Some Burlington name train (any of the Zephyrs, anyone?Thumbs UpThumbs Down) would be neat to see, especially in the metal plated/painted scheme.

  • Member since
    May 2014
  • From: Pennsylvania
  • 1,154 posts
Posted by Trainman440 on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 6:59 PM

I would love to see Santa Fe's Scout, or Santa Fe's Bluegoose train!

 

Of course, my number 1 hope is that it is affordable :D

 

Charles

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO

Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440

Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 7:10 PM

The TCZ in all her glory:

 

 

 

Note that, in this case, the lead dome car is the world's first--probably subbing for one of the regulars.

 

Ed

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 8:20 PM

As a contrarian, here are a few I'm sure Walthers will NEVER market:

  • The Orient Express.
  • Le Mistral.
  • The Flying Scotsman.
  • The original Kodama.
  • The 1964 edition Chidori - The only one I could use.

I'm sure that others could add many more from the 4.92 continents I disregarded.  All have one thing in common.  If you want it, you had better learn to scratchbuild and/or kitbash.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - Chidori running as a foobie)

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Jersey Shore
  • 313 posts
Posted by wojosa31 on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 8:40 PM

If we are talking Burlington, why not the 1956 Denver Zephyr?

Personally, I believe the passenger market is saturated, I wouldnt be a bit surprised if they didnt do a feature train for a couple of years.

Ya never know.

 

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Lakewood NY
  • 679 posts
Posted by tpatrick on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 8:50 PM

Noone has done the Erie Limited. Walthers can be the first. And probably the last.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: SE Michigan
  • 922 posts
Posted by fmilhaupt on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 8:58 PM

The catch with the Wabash Cannonball is that it was a heavyweight train for most of its existance, and Walthers hasn't seemed interested in offering a heavyweight name train.

When the Cannonball got a few streamlined cars toward the end of the Wabash, most of the cars in any given train were still heavyweights.  Not a very pretty train at all at that time, but I think that gave it character...

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

  • Member since
    July 2002
  • From: Jersey City
  • 1,925 posts
Posted by steemtrayn on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 8:59 PM

No one knows who Noone is.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: SE Michigan
  • 922 posts
Posted by fmilhaupt on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 9:06 PM

PM Railfan

How about the "Pere Marquette"? And before anyone chimes in - "hey they did that one already!"....  um, no, they didnt.

Still waiting for a "real" Pere Marquette. Not a C&O version, not a Polar Express version.... a REAL Pere Marquette.

 

Well, you can get the 1946 Pere Marquette by putting the cars together from Union Station Products kits. Or, if you can find someone willing to part with the old NKP Car Co. sides, they're already plated. These are the most likely ways to get that train.

At this point, I'd settle for Walthers releasing a 1946-scheme E7.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • 3,006 posts
Posted by ACY Tom on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 9:27 PM

[quote user="tpatrick"]

Noone has done the Erie Limited. Walthers can be the first. And probably the last.

 

[/quote

Well, the problem with the Erie Limited, and a number of other trains, is that most of its cars were upgraded heavyweights, not quite like the cars on any other railroad. Walthers would want to produce cars that they can sell in several liveries. That's a given. It's simply the way the market has to work in a world of expensive die work. I love the Erie, too. Grew up near its mainline. But reality sez Walthers ain't gonna do it.

Tom 

  • Member since
    January 2013
  • 1,034 posts
Posted by PM Railfan on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 10:49 PM

Hey Fritz!

 

fmilhaupt
Well, you can get the 1946 Pere Marquette by putting the cars together from Union Station Products kits. Or, if you can find someone willing to part with the old NKP Car Co. sides, they're already plated. These are the most likely ways to get that train.

At this point, I'd settle for Walthers releasing a 1946-scheme E7.

 

Way ahead of ya my friend. Irrespective of Walthers version of the PERE MARQUETTE, I had long ago resided myself to doing what you said.... part it together myself.

I have the E units, the baggage cars, and the coaches. I lack having the Observations, RPO's, and the diners. Looking forward to scrathbuilding those cars one day, as I pretty much knew to model this train - I would have to do.

I have a pretty good start on the heavyweights too. What Id really like to get my hands on are some Palace cars!

 

Douglas

 

  • Member since
    March 2014
  • 169 posts
Posted by TheWizard on Tuesday, September 6, 2016 11:25 PM

I'd  like a late 90's era Amtrak silver series train. Despite the fact that they just did a ton of Amtrak cars (and are selling their remaining stock at fire sale pricing) the only car they did in that train was the Amfleet 2 coaches - and arguably a lounge.

the flying Scotsman would be nice too, but Walthers doesn't do much steam...

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Miles City, Montana
  • 2,287 posts
Posted by FRRYKid on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 12:34 AM

I saw that the North Coast Limited was mentioned. The problem with that, unfortunately, is that it had so many incarnations over the years (it was first started in 1900 IIRC), unique cars (the water-baggage car for the first semi-streamlined train [the '47 incarnation still had heavyweight cars in it] being just one) as well as enough different types of engines (various steamers, F3s, F5s [Phase IV F3s], F7s and F9s) that I don't forsee Walthers producing one of those.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
Brain waves can power an electric train. RealFact #832 from Snapple.
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 1:16 AM

7j43k

The problem with the North Coast Limited (I think) is that the cars Walthers has already done in that scheme have the wrong colors.  So Walthers would have to decide whether they would continue making the train in the wrong color or do them in the correct color.  Someone loses (and complains) either way.

The same thing happened with their Empire Builder.  That one (the green and orange) had the wrong colors.  And they've kept doing them that way.  Which means that all the cars match.  And all are the wrong colors.

 

The Walthers Empire Builder cars are generally considered wrong primarily because of the shade of orange used - too dark. Unfortunately, Walthers used a lighter shade of orange on their earlier "generic" GN passenger cars in the orange and green scheme, so you can't really use the two together very realistically.

Stix
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 5:39 AM

All of the above suggestions are good.......... but not as good as:

- Illinois Central "CITY OF NEW ORLEANS"

- Illinois Central "PANAMA LIMITED"

The IC played a very important roll in the development of the country's mid-section and yet is pretty much ignored by MRs and subsequently the mfgs........

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 7:18 AM

tomikawaTT

As a contrarian, here are a few I'm sure Walthers will NEVER market:

  • The Orient Express.
  • Le Mistral.
  • The Flying Scotsman.
  • The original Kodama.
  • The 1964 edition Chidori - The only one I could use.

I'm sure that others could add many more from the 4.92 continents I disregarded.  All have one thing in common.  If yu want it, you had better learn to scratchbuild and/or kitbash.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - Chidori running as a foobie)

 
Chuck,
 
As someone who can never decide on a prototype, you'd be surprised how many of these trains are or have been available ready to run in HO scale...
 
The Orient Express was at one time available as a train set from Bachmann, but this set consisted entirely of products made by Jouef for the French market. The actual consist was based not on any prototype but on the consist used in the Hollywood movie. While the Pullman (a term meaning a parlour car in Europe) that plays an important part in Agatha Christie's plot did run on the train, it only ran between Calais and Paris at the far Western end of the trip, and not in Eastern Europe. Just before the original Rivarossi closed down, they produced a number of very nice Wagons Lit vehicles. I got myself a set of Fleche d'Or pullmans in Nord brown to run with the much older Chapelon-Nord I'd got in a weak moment years earlier. The blue and cream pullman cars looked nice, so I got a set of those. These could be used for an "Edelwiess". Inside Switzerland, the Edelweiss was coupled to the "Rheingold" and hauled as a single luxury train. Sadly I still need an SBB Ae4/7 electric for that trick, although I have a six car Rheingold from early Chinese Liliput production. To get back to the Orient Express, I have a couple of the Rivarossi Lx sleepers, and some not completely matching older Jouef cars, an S type sleeper and a dining car. (I have versions of the same cars in post WWII Mitropa red which could stand in for the pre WWII Mitropa sleepers from Berlin added to the Orient Express for the trip into Turkey).
 
But scratch building is not compulsory...
 
I have a nice photo of the Nice section of the "Mistral" in the train shed in Nice, headed by a light green BB25200 in 1973, complete with the cast red and silver train nameplate on the nose. My 25200 from Lima is a later version with large stainless ventilation grilles. I have some Lima Mistral 69 cars which are a bit crude. Hornby did release a very nice set under the revived Rivarossi name but I've avoided getting those so far. Hornby-Acho made a vey nice set of these (Mistral 69) cars in the 1970s, but those have evaded me also.
 
The "Flying Scotsman" is an interesting case. While the LNER produced a number of distinctively painted streamlined trains in the mid to late 1930s, the Flying Scotsman was replaced by a new set of cars finished in varnished teak, the finish unchanged since the turn of the twentieth century. Owing to the British tradition of 1/76 scale on HO track, no models are available in HO, but a reasonable replica can be had in 1/76 scale from Hornby, the most recent versions having a quite reasonable representation of varnished teak.
 
M636C
  • Member since
    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 2,899 posts
Posted by Paul3 on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 10:14 AM

The problem with doing any version of the Merchants Limited or the Yankee Clipper for the New Haven is that each train had a unique set of cars not found on other railroads.

There were multiple heavyweight consists ordered from Pullman to equip the Merchants over the years, and the Clipper was the last NH heavyweight train set so ordered (in 1930).  These were unique in that they were always "day trains"...they never had a sleeper.  Boston to New York was only 4 to 5 hours away (depending on the era), so there was no need for a sleeper.  This meant that the NH ordered a lot of Parlors, which are 1st class coaches.  Few other railroads even had Parlor cars, which makes the NH-type heavyweight cars hard to find on other RR's.

In the streamline era, the NH's fleet was the only turtle roofed stainless steel cars ever built.  This means that no one else had them new.

Today, Rapido's NH stainless steel coaches are on the way and will soon be available on the market.  These coaches are but the first step to do the Merchants or the Clipper (which had stainless steel coaches added within a year of their arrival in 1948).  You also need Parlors, "County" cars (basically combines and named after local counties), diners, grills, and sometimes an observation car.  We'll probably get Parlors.  We might get "County" cars.  Diners and grills?  Doubtful, but possible.  Obs?  Forget about that one (they only had 2).

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 10:42 AM

As long as we are offering up fantasy trains that probably never will be done, I'll put my vote in for the Rio Grande Propector.  It's main consist was simply:

Baggage
Combine
Chair car
Diner
Sleeper

Five cars will pretty much do it.  Cost will be low than the long passenger trains.  Most of the cars IIRC, maybe all, were C&O passenger order slots that D&RGW took over when C&O decided they ordered too many.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 11:41 AM

wjstix
The Walthers Empire Builder cars are generally considered wrong primarily because of the shade of orange used - too dark.

 

Duane Buck pointed out that the orange was too red.  On consideration, I agree.  

 

I have pointed out that the yellow striping is too bright.  It should be less bright and more tan.

 

Walthers recently did their F's in GN simplified.  Sadly (for me), they went with the reddish orange so that they would match their EB cars.  My sadness arises because my Empire Builder is painted in colors much closer to the prototype.

 

Curiously, Walthers' GN U28B looks to me to be done exactly right.  I really love the look of that loco.

 

 

Ed

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 11:46 AM

Ed, as you note, color can be a vexing problem - especially those colors that shift with time, exposure to sun, oxidation etc.  Some are also sensitive to the temperature of the sunlight under which the photo's were taken.  It may be a case like the Easops Fable: no matter how hard you try, you lose your ...

I used to think I had it bad as a D&RGW fan and wrong shades of orange year in and year out, but in the past ten years maybe they stopped using original paint chips, which didn't tranlate very well to models in basement lighting, and making shades that looked "right" on the model.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 11:55 AM

FRRYKid

I saw that the North Coast Limited was mentioned. The problem with that, unfortunately, is that it had so many incarnations over the years (it was first started in 1900 IIRC), unique cars (the water-baggage car for the first semi-streamlined train [the '47 incarnation still had heavyweight cars in it] being just one) as well as enough different types of engines (various steamers, F3s, F5s [Phase IV F3s], F7s and F9s) that I don't forsee Walthers producing one of those.

 

 

To me, there is NO question which version of the NCL Walthers would make:  the one with the domes.  in the colors that have become almost synonymous with Northern Pacific:  Loewy.

That said, it would be wise to do BOTH diners that were used in that circumstance.  And BOTH lounge cars.  That way they could also span more eras AND do the earlier paint scheme.

I would expect they'd do F7's.  They would do for the Loewy paint scheme AND the earlier one, though not before about 1949.  But the train before then had lotsa heavyweights anyway, so doing those years is moot. 

So, I'm not seeing a problem here.

 

 

Ed

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 416 posts
Posted by blabride on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 12:32 PM

Anything that served the Southwest besides Santa Fe, We have SF covered with cars from the other 3 or 4 Chiefs they have done. 

How about a Missouri Pacific Eagle to everywhere? Could have used PA's or E's. The portholes might be a problem for E7's. The Eagles that left St Louis really pretty much covered most of the Southwest and the western deep south.

An SP Sunset Limited! Would have used PA's or E's.

The MKT Frisco Texas Special! The 1952 plus version could use E8's.

And don't think there aren't model railroaders down here. I can think of over 50 layouts in the Austin area alone.

SB

  • Member since
    November 2014
  • 44 posts
Posted by The Ferro Kid on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 12:40 PM

The Lackawanna's Phoebe Snow, of course!

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 2:23 PM

riogrande5761

Ed, as you note, color can be a vexing problem - especially those colors that shift with time, exposure to sun, oxidation etc.  Some are also sensitive to the temperature of the sunlight under which the photo's were taken.  It may be a case like the Easops Fable: no matter how hard you try, you lose your ...

 

 

Going with that, it's my recollection that the green that GN used on the Empire Builder went a bit olive (browner) over time.

I suspect the best thing is to match a fresh paint job.  It's usually easier to weather something than to unweather it.

Ed

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, September 7, 2016 4:23 PM

7j43k
Going with that, it's my recollection that the green that GN used on the Empire Builder went a bit olive (browner) over time.

The green is supposed to be identical to "Pullman" green.

Get some oxidization going and add some road grime and it does indeed take on a more olive appearance. Much like the discussions about Brunswick Green, which quickly aged to much lighter shades.

Regards, Ed

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!