Trainman440, first let me say it's nice to see someone from the new generation writing and spelling properly instead of all the txt jk roflcopter nonsense. Some of that's fine for quick messages over the phone or Facebook, but it bugs me to no end when I'm trying to contact a business for something and get a reply like that (and then I don't give them my business because I want to work with someone professional).I'm also part of the newer generation, but I do prefer kits over ready to run. I can't tell you how many useful skills I've been able to pick up from building, repairing, and modifying trains. It also helps to have that skill when buying ready to run, because a lot of those need to be rebuilt right out of the box!Regarding an earlier comment about ready to run layouts, Woodland Scenics tried something like that a while back (and maybe they still make them, I don't know). It was still in kit form and had to be finished, but the problem was that you ended up with a layout of someone else's design instead of your own personalized setup. They still looked nice, I'll admit, but I'd rather have a layout created from my own mind.
_________________________________________________________________
Charles, the world is what you make of it. It can seem overwhelming at times, especially when you're in your teens. I remember those feelings and I'm absolutely certain that it's harder to be in your shoes, today, than it was for me back in the late 1970's when I was your age.That being said, you are living your dream! Go for it! Take what you consider the folly of others and make it your gain! I do pretty much what you do...partly because I *like* painting and applying decals and fixing up a junk car or loco into a fine piece for my layout. And partly because I'm not a rich kid living off of a trust fund. And partly because I'm cheap. There, I said it. :D Well, it *is* a hobby, and therefore not a priority like savings, bills, retirement, so on.I get a lot of deals on buying in lots. A few coupler replacements, a paint job, some decals, put a few wheels in gauge and ta-da! Nice, fancy rolling stock to rival those $25 boxcars and $150 engines. I think the most I have paid for a locomotive was around $40. I've only run across one loco that I couldn't get running, and I now have about 15 total.I'm a DC guy. I work in the Information Technology dept. of a major insurance company, supporting and taking help calls for a few .NET applications. The very LAST thing I want to do in my spare time is mess with technology! I want things simple and reliable and following the classic "K.I.S.S" rule. For this, DC is perfect for me.I guess my point is, don't worry about what others think or do. Follow your dream, because it's yours and no one can take it away from you. If others don't follow your path, it's their loss!
IRONROOSTERThe good old days, like the Golden Age seems to be the first year or two one is in the hobby.
Paul,For me its much deeper then that..I started running my Dad's O Scale 2 rail when I was five or six so,no new to the hobby excitement for me.
For me the "Golden Years" will always be between 60-66 when we was getting dozens of new and exciting models from various importers and Uncle Irv on a weekly bases.
Exciting times indeed Athearn SW7(aka SW1500),the GP35 and SD45 plus many brass diesels like the EMD's RS1325,Alco RS1,S2 etc. Then how about the "Ugly Ducking" 40' high cube boxcar?
We will never see days like that again since you first saw the ad for a new model in MR or RMC and seen the model at the shop on your Saturday morning visit-that was a big deal back then-a normal hobbyist Saturday routine was wifey went to the beauty shop while hubby went to the hobby shop. The women talked about whatever and the guys talked trains. The kids usually went to visit their grandparents on Saturday mornings for their weekly visit.That was acceptable back in those days..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
maxman I don't think anyone has exactly said what year the "good old days" are, but I wouldn't mind being back there. I'd certainly be a lot younger.
I don't think anyone has exactly said what year the "good old days" are, but I wouldn't mind being back there. I'd certainly be a lot younger.
The good old days, like the Golden Age seems to be the first year or two one is in the hobby. Everything is new and wonderful, there is a sense of excitement and discovery. Along the way we lose all of that, but fondly remember that period. It matters not what we started with, for most of us the memories have removed the shortcomings.
I fondly remember my start in the hobby with Tyco trains, Atlas brass track, and Atlas buildings. I added MDC, LaBelle, Silver Streak, Central Valley, etc. I can't really go back of course, but from time to time I get out those first trains remember the "good old days".
Paul
Being one of those last century modelers, I will wax eloquent based on the years behind me.
I take the best of today that I love and would never go backwards for.
DCC is number one. Sound related to DCC is number 2.
I took up HOn3 as it still allows a lot of freelance building and hands-on construction and proto-building of locos, rolling stock, etc. In this respect it is much like the last century due to the limited supply of period specific materials and kits. This forces a bit of craftsmanship and hands-on not avaialble for cash in today's world.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
trainnut1250 Jim, No way am I saying collectors are a bad thing.
Just clarifying that you can end up with lots of stuff through the process of building a layout. - So much that it can seem like you are a collector. I think that collecting is a part of human nature – you should see the rocks we have in the backyard!!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 trainnut1250 You make it sound like being a collector is a bad thing. I'll come out and say it, I was a collector for years, good, bad or ugly. I suspect there are many out there like me who don't or didn't have a space to build a layout so they collect for the time they finally have a layout space and they will have, hopefully, an idealized roster to run. Perhaps those who look down their noses at collectors (not necessarily you) should instead count their blessing that they have a layout and don't have to be one of those poor sods who can only long for the day they can build a layout and operate those trains that are sitting in boxes.
trainnut1250
You make it sound like being a collector is a bad thing. I'll come out and say it, I was a collector for years, good, bad or ugly. I suspect there are many out there like me who don't or didn't have a space to build a layout so they collect for the time they finally have a layout space and they will have, hopefully, an idealized roster to run. Perhaps those who look down their noses at collectors (not necessarily you) should instead count their blessing that they have a layout and don't have to be one of those poor sods who can only long for the day they can build a layout and operate those trains that are sitting in boxes.
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
trainnut1250 Charles, One thing that is common in the hobby is the tendency for modelers to buy more kits/materials/train cars, stuff - than they will ever use. This has been going on for as long as I have been in the hobby.
One thing that is common in the hobby is the tendency for modelers to buy more kits/materials/train cars, stuff - than they will ever use. This has been going on for as long as I have been in the hobby.
Which is why there is so many kits out on the secondary market; much of that stuff never did get built and either the owner passed away or decided it was time to clear out what is never going to get built.
To be clear: I am not a collector. I don’t have display cases. I scratch build models and I am building a double deck Ops, based layout. I run the cars I build. The models go on the layout. The whole collector debate is something else again.
Ebay, train shows, NMRA meets etc. the kits are out there and more are coming back to the market every day…. Guy
Ebay, train shows, NMRA meets etc. the kits are out there and more are coming back to the market every day….
Guy
For sure and between all the new stuff combined with all those kits and past items, there is a big selection; the trick is finding it - but it's out there.
Trainman440 To those who gave examples of their own custom builds - Yes, those are impressive, but you gotta understand, Im not THAT talented. I can build kits...not completely scratch build a passsenger car.
To those who gave examples of their own custom builds - Yes, those are impressive, but you gotta understand, Im not THAT talented. I can build kits...not completely scratch build a passsenger car.
I earlier mentioned my GP20s and my GP30. When I build the first GP20, I really didn't know what I was completely doing either. It starting from seeing a listing on eBay talking about a Tyco GP20 riding on an Athearn GP35 drive. While I didn't bid on that particular listing, that gave me the starting point for the eight GP20s that I now have (as well as the Bachmann GP30). I just starting by trimming what I could tell what was hitting on the shell and the frame. Gradually I managed to get my first shell and frame mated together. That first engine evovled into the now eight 20s and the GP30.
Sometimes, you will fail with a project. Even I have failed on some and had to start over or even set them aside and come back to them. One of my major building falls into that category. It was a kitbash that was started when I was still in North Dakota. It moved with me back to MT and I ended up cutting up a finger fairly deeply when a knife slipped when I was working on it shortly after I moved back. (To this day I have a scar from that cut.) I ended up putting that project aside but later got back to it and finished it.
BRAKIE BTW.."Those stupid plastic car kits will kill the hobby!"was the cry from the older salt and pepper beards while the white beard bemoaned the "instant" death of real kits. I remember well the discussions at Hall's hobbies every Saturday morning even though I was around 12 (1960)..
BTW.."Those stupid plastic car kits will kill the hobby!"was the cry from the older salt and pepper beards while the white beard bemoaned the "instant" death of real kits. I remember well the discussions at Hall's hobbies every Saturday morning even though I was around 12 (1960)..
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Greetings Charles,
I've been in the hobby since I was a grade school kid in the 1950's and have always been a railfan. I think I know what you mean by the "good old days" as regards the hands-on aspects but I maybe have a different take. Perhaps because I was young then, and prototype railroading was much more intensive, but I think of modeling in those days being more fun. I know I had a lot of fun and still do, but a lot of folks nowadays seem to be too intense and uptight about things In the modeling world. The endless Lamentations over the least imperfection in detail is a bit too much for me-there's just too much in life that actually is important.
Unlike many on these lists, I think the greatest improvement over the decades is in track and structures. Walthers for one has produced large urban buildings that are great for us city modelers. Suydam used to be one of few such suppliers back in the day and most of those are still being made. Lots of companies make really nice kits, though we've lost some good ones like Dyna Models. As regards freight cars I really got into upgrading during the " freight car revolution" of the 1980's. A couple now-gone magazines had monthly articles on kitbashing and detailing, a great side of the hobby I still enjoy. Most old Athearn cars have real potential as well as many others.
You can still have a lot of hands-on enjoyment. I've yet to buy any of the $3-400 diesels, but have a decent roster acquired mostly through swap meets and ebay.
B.p.
In my own case I will stockpile what I think I will need in the future, “great deals, items that I need to buy now or I won’t be able to get later – the list of reasons why I “need” this stuff is quite long, The end result is that I have 7 boxes (file box sized) full of unbuilt kits, several hundred extra assembled cars, 14 boxes of trees (I will use these) and tons of other items that may or may not be used on the current layout.
Every modeler I know that has been in the hobby a while stockpiles stuff - some more than others but everyone has a shelf of unbuilt kits. Between myself and three of my local buddies – we could stock a small hobby shop with our unbuilt/unused stuff. . I mention this not brag about my stuff (it actually is sort of embarrassing), but to give you an example of what thousands of modelers are doing.
When I say that there are tons of kits out there this is what I mean. As we age, most of this stuff returns to the market. I have recycled/sold many boxes so far and I am a mild case. I know of two modelers locally who passed this year. Their collections are hitting the local market with all sorts of goodies one of thousands of soon to be auctions…
There is irony in shuffling a kit that has sat on your shelf to another modeler’s shelf to sit unbuilt until he/she sells it to someone else who will have it sit unbuilt…… Ah, the circle of life….(cue Elton)
Steven Otte Am I going to have to start "The Inevitable 'Today's Hobby Isn't Modeling, It's Collecting' Thread"?
Am I going to have to start "The Inevitable 'Today's Hobby Isn't Modeling, It's Collecting' Thread"?
Actually, that is why this is the Golden Age.
You can collect - Lionel, N Scale (I shared a cubical once with an N scale collector - no layout or plan for one), FSM kits, Tyco, etc.
You can build - scratchbuild, parts build, kit build. You can build locomotives (although kits are hard to find, but scratchbuilding is still alive), cars, structures, layouts.
You can just watch the trains run, operate however the fancy strikes you, or replicate real railroad operations with a gang of like minded folks.
There are more choices today than any other time in my 45 years in the hobby.
riogrande5761Hah hah, believe me opinions are NOT in short supply, which is why even innocently started topics trigger the same old tired arguments such as "your not a real modeler if you buy RTR", or "you are must one of those awful collectors", or how "RTR has ruined the hobby" or the "hobby is too expensive" or the "hobby is dying", adnauseum.
For 60 years I have heard those old and worn worries.Nothing for me to see here! I have seen it all from locomotive kits to the highly detailed cars and locomotives we enjoy today.
Each decade was a golden transition to what we have today.
I don't know Dave, I honestly don't see how it gets any better than it is today. Use whatever euphamism works. Can it get better, sure!
I said, rather off-handedly, in my prior post in this thread, that I was not saying that this is the, or "a," Golden Age of model railroading. What I meant to convey was that I was making no claim one way or the other on that; I didn't mean to seem to be flatly stating that this is not the, or "a," Golden Age. Several others have stated that they believe it is the, or "a'," Golden Age and stated their reasoning.
So at the risk of hijacking the thread, but preventing it from turning into a tired re-hash of topics already covered in these Forums, what say we focus a bit on just what factors would make for a Golden Age of model railroading? I am not sure everybody would have the same list, for good reason.
If we are talking number of hobbyists as one measure, that would suggest the Golden Age was a couple of decades ago. Of course there are not many ways to really measure or even estimate number of hobbyists except by counting up circulation of the "big two" magazines and perhaps also NMRA membership. (There are other organizations such as N Scale Enthusiasts for that matter).
Number of offerings? Quality of offerings? Degree of prototype accuracy of offerings? Amount of innovation in the offerings? A case can be made for each.
Quality of the very best modeling by practitioners? Quality of the average modeling by average practioners? Again cases can be made for those being tests for a Golden Age.
We are unlikely to find a set of criteria that all can agree on, but it might be interesting to start compiling a list of opinions. The phrase Golden Age is being bandied about but without a definition for the phrase.
Dave Nelson
I grew up in the 50's and never could afford brass. My choice in those days was tyco and others. BB car kits were a savior to me. I still have 150 of those cars and still buy them when I see something I could use and still use them today.
Todays products are amazing. The detail is beyond what I ever thought it would be. Yes I buy some of them and some of my favorite locomotives. It is a great time to be into model railroading wheather you build, kit bash or buy RTR.
Enjoy your hobby no matter how you do it
Trainman440Yes Steve, I didn't expect this thread to go this wild...Sorry. Im not a hater of Model railroading, just wanted to see other's opinions on my wish...
Hah hah, believe me opinions are NOT in short supply, which is why even innocently started topics trigger the same old tired arguments such as "your not a real modeler if you buy RTR", or "you are must one of those awful collectors", or how "RTR has ruined the hobby" or the "hobby is too expensive" or the "hobby is dying", adnauseum.
Perhaps Steve should institute "required reading" which includes educating new users about forum ettiquite and typical "foot fight" type of topics such as those listed above. Model Railroading is chock full of grumpy old men, some of which are fond of reminding the readers how much more they know, or how much more experience they have than the next guy. It gets pretty old but if you keep reading you won't be disappointed.
This all is modus operandi considering the clientel that topics often devolve into one of the those hot button topics and there never seems to be an end to them. Unfortunately new members often step right into the "mud" and then down that slipper slope we go again.
Andre, well based on what others describe the "old days", those days sounded pretty temping. So I just wanted to see how much others wanted to disagree...apparently a lot of people do.
Aren't you glad you asked! =P
But on a serious note, the good ol days are now. People who wish the days of 20, 30 or 40 years ago are here just need to go to a big train show, or camp Ebay and you'll get plenty of the olden days to your hearts content. That is unless you long for the days when all modelers had not choice but to build everything from kits. Personally I say no thanks to that. Cheers
andrechapelon Steven Otte Am I going to have to start "The Inevitable 'Today's Hobby Isn't Modeling, It's Collecting' Thread"? I'm amazed it hasn't devolved into the ever popular "The Hobby Is Too Expensive" kvetching session. It looked a couple of times like it was heading in that direction. I'm just kind of amused that a "those were the good old days" thread was started by someone who was born long after the "good old days" were over. Andre
I'm amazed it hasn't devolved into the ever popular "The Hobby Is Too Expensive" kvetching session. It looked a couple of times like it was heading in that direction.
I'm just kind of amused that a "those were the good old days" thread was started by someone who was born long after the "good old days" were over.
Andre
Yes Steve, I didn't expect this thread to go this wild...Sorry. Im not a hater of Model railroading, just wanted to see other's opinions on my wish...
I think the original thread poster should be able to lock his/her own forum....
Charles
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
I entered the hobby in the early 1970's in terms of being a consumer of HO. By then Athearn had a decent supply of HO rolling stock that to me, at that time, looked pretty good. Things didn't really seem to start improving much until the 1990's, and of course since the early 2000's it's been much better in terms of fidelity and detail. IMO, it's only continued to get better right up to the present. And the good thing is with some effort you can pick from earlier stuff as well as the newer stuff. Sure, it's pretty expensive so I can only afford a little here and a little there, but I've got a pretty sizable fleet now so thats ok. I just cheery pick the most appropriate models and yes, sometimes have to play catch up later if my budget is shot when something comes out that I need. I can't complain too much!
Jim,Around the 69/70 mark the import fees and taxes shot up and that caused the price of brass engines to skyrocket.
Back when I was 16 most boys my age was building supped up mid 50s Ford,Olds and Chevy's while I spent my money on brass diesels.
I will freely admit manually unloading boxcars was hard work and I did that for two summer vacations.
Needless to say comparing the 60 era brass diesels and the diesels we have today would be like comparing a Model T to one of today's cars...
You entered the hobby when things was getting better.
For whatever reason, I found brass unaffordable most of my life, expecially brass engines have been out of sight cost-wise. I was a teen in the 70's so lawn money or fast food wages didn't cut it. In the 1980's I was a college student or newly married with a wife who was very stingy with my MR budget. It wasn't until the I was back on my own that I picked up a few brass passenger cars and cabooses. I'm guessing there were a lot of others who couldn't afford brass as a rule too; which is why I argue brass wasn't generally an option. That said, I can agree that "the present" has always been a golden age of sorts - but the current present is the best so far.
riogrande5761 BRAKIE Jim,Every decade has been the golden years even the 60s due to the array of brass steam locomotives one could buy. Reckon its because those rose color glasses only sees limited history? It isn't rose colored glasses that limited history, it was lack of disposible income. Brass is something generally accessible mainly to top earning category folks. So every decade was only golden as far as what average modelers could afford; brass wasn't in the mix to be fair. Just sayin...
BRAKIE Jim,Every decade has been the golden years even the 60s due to the array of brass steam locomotives one could buy. Reckon its because those rose color glasses only sees limited history?
Jim,Every decade has been the golden years even the 60s due to the array of brass steam locomotives one could buy.
Reckon its because those rose color glasses only sees limited history?
It isn't rose colored glasses that limited history, it was lack of disposible income. Brass is something generally accessible mainly to top earning category folks. So every decade was only golden as far as what average modelers could afford; brass wasn't in the mix to be fair. Just sayin...
Jim,The blue collar workers back then with great paying factory jobs could easily afford those brass engines and by the time I was 16 I had several brass locomotives. I lied about my age and unloaded boxcars for $50.00/day and that day could be 10-14 hours long.
All that was needed back then was a poker face and a Social Security card. I was 180 pounds of lean muscle back then.Now,as the old saying goes I gone to seed with the dunlap disease.
In the early to mid 60s the average price for a brass engine was around $39.95. Of course every LHS had a lay away plan or would give credit to their long time customers.
My Proto 2000s and 1000s DC-readys from back then are still great runners, smooth and powerful, with beautiful paint jobs.
Likewise my Bachmann Spectrums. They're finely built machines.
My Genesis Mikado needed a huge amount of work to get running right--there's been volumes written on its infamous problems--but it's a good runner now with a lot of bandaids under the hood.
Last but definitely not least, my Atlas Classic RS-3s. These guys run so smooth they actually coast a couple inches down the track after throttling off. Look gorgeous too.
I have fond memories of two Pemco GG1s I bought cheap on the bay. Tuned them up and LEDed the headlights. But those plastic pancake motors--I knew they wouldn't last and they sounded cheesy besides. Resold 'em. It was fun to have owned two pieces of history for awhile.
Athearn BBs! Over the years I've collected over 80 rolling stock averaging 4 to 7 dollars each. Had a ball putting them together and installing Kadees and fiber washers in all to correct the height. Colorful, historical, and I have no complaints about the detail. How else could one amass a fleet like this for so cheap?
Yes, older is better I have found. Today's prices are ridiculous for what you get.
Rob
Touche', Paul3! :-)