Firelock76,Just because Trainman440 isn't old enough to vote doesn't mean he would want to play with toys.
Scale O-scale (2-rail), OTOH, is very impressive. I have a couple pieces myself.
Trainman440, you're 15? Let me say how relieved I am to find a young one like yourself who wants to get into fixin' and buildin' stuff and not waste his time making love to a SmartPhone!
As others have said, this model railroading hobby is what you make it, it's a big tent with room for everyone. Trust me, when you start driving and can make it to train shows and hobby shops it'll open up a whole new world for you. At least until a sweet young thing comes into your life and you start spending money on her instead of trains, but I digress.
And if HO starts to leave you cold, let me invite you to leave the "Dark Side" and try O gauge. It's even more fun bringing old Lionels back to life! You and I are only passing through history, but O gauge trains ARE history!
Now that I've thrown a stink bomb in the room courtesy of "Classic Toy Trains" let me make my escape!
wp8thsubI think we are mistaken to believe that all the hobbyists of old really wanted to be craftsmen. They built kits because there was no other way. They took the easy way out whenever possible, filling rosters with the simplest of cars and locos just to make things run.
Rob,There was RTR cars in the 60s from several manufacturers but,they usually had truck mounted couplers and like you say we took the easy way out Athearn or Roundhouse kits instead or ran them as they came out of the box--until we found time to convert them to body mounted couplers. The plastic kits was fast and easy to build.
Getting things to run got easier with Athearn cars and locomotives or brass steam engines. Brass diesels not so much unless you love hearing howling,growling and whining as they travel around the layout.
With these brass diesels pulse power was your friend.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Trainman440Im not saying that modern model railroading is bad, but I wish that there is more hands on doing in this hobby(other than Layout building). I wish that engine kits could come back to this hobby, and that kits were more popular.
Kits are everywhere, for structures, scenic details, vehicles, and yes - rolling stock.
Seems to me most of the lament over a supposed lack of kits has to do with freight cars, specifically Athearn blue box or equivalents like MDC. These were kits that required little if any actual skill. I hear guys at train shows and club meets carping about the demise of kits and these are almost always the ones they miss. I like to ask them if they ever built a wood or resin kit, or at least attempted one the advanced plastic cars like Intermountain. Almost never will one of them say yes. I also ask about scratchbuilding, and once again there's a distinct lack of interest.
I think we are mistaken to believe that all the hobbyists of old really wanted to be craftsmen. They built kits because there was no other way. They took the easy way out whenever possible, filling rosters with the simplest of cars and locos just to make things run. They like trains a lot more than they like doing work. People with this mentality form a very large portion of our hobby and always have. Now they can choose RTR.
Want to build something easy? Get an Accurail or Scale Trains car. Just as simple as an Athearn, and still readily available.
You can still get undec plastic kits from Kadee, ExactRail, Intermountain, Moloco and elsewhere. Get a kit from Laser Kit, or Resin Car Works that requires more work. There are countless opportunities to expand your skills. Look at the popularity of FastTracks products for scratchbuilding track, or the multitude of wood structure kits. Try a resin automobile from Sylvan.
Here's one of the brand new Kit Classics cars from Scale Trains. I painted the underframe and trucks, added some new decals, and installed Kadee couplers. Under $20 http://www.scaletrains.com/search?type=product&q=Kit+Classics .
I found these two MDC tank car kits at a train show for $5 each last year.
One local hobby shop has a section for old kits like this Walthers coil car, which I got for about $8, not including new wheelsets, couplers or some decals. Again this was within the last year. These kits were difficult to assemble cleanly, so many were left unbuilt in their boxes.
A train show vendor had this Proto2000 hopper kit for $10 earlier this year. These are often a tough sell because they don't just fall together. Guys would pass this up for Athearn blue box cars sold by the same dealer at the same price. Coupled to it at left is an Accurail hopper, another kit that can be finished under $20 http://www.accurail.com/accurail/6500.htm .
This is just a sampling of fairly recent car kit projects, from stuff found at the LHS or shows. During the last year I've built structures, vehicles, and scenic details from other kits that are currently in production from Walthers, Sylvan, Woodland Scenics, etc. It's all out there if you want it. Not everybody does.
Rob Spangler
riogrande5761When you compare the present to times past, the present definitely has the most to offer in trains, train control and train related products, here in the US, hands down. It isn't rose colored glasses at all, it basic fact
Jim,Every decade has been the golden years even the 60s due to the array of brass steam locomotives one could buy.
Reckon its because those rose color glasses only sees limited history?
While I do miss the more simpler modeling days I sure wouldn't want to return to them.
Ever wonder why Roundhouse and Athearn cars was a large family bag of chips and all that too? They looked far more realistic then the wooden car kits did when built.
The Athearn GP7 looked far better then Tenshodo's GP7 and by placing a Hobbytown drive under that Athearn GP7 shell you had a good running GP7..
BTW.."Those stupid plastic car kits will kill the hobby!"was the cry from the older salt and pepper beards while the white beard bemoaned the "instant" death of real kits. I remember well the discussions at Hall's hobbies every Saturday morning even though I was around 12 (1960)..
Bayfield Transfer RailwayAnd I for one am DEVOUTLY glad that I don't have to **** around with trying to balance a motor armature to try to get the stupid thing to run well, or have to turn my own flywheels on a lathe, or any of the THOUSAND other things we used to have to do.
While YMMV I never had to balance a motor armature-that's why Pittman was doing so well selling motors nor did I find the need to buy a lathe.I did do the other thousand and one things to get some of the brass diesels to run half as good as a Athearn or Hobbytown drive. The brass steam engines ran good from the box.
I built a Varney 2-8-0 and used a better Pittman motor and I ended up with a smooth runner(for its time) not bad for a 12 year old.
Of course I had a excellent teacher-my dad and seeing he could turn brass stock into a steam locomotive maybe I should call him"Professor" or "Master" instead of teacher.
I wish I inherited some of his scratchbuilding skills.
Golden Age” Scheech!!! Geez Jim, I do need sunglasses living down here in my South Pacific Island paradise, but I don’t think your rose coloured sunnies would suit.
Next you’ll be extolling the virtues of scratchbuilding and kitbashing so one can gain the roster one requires.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761News flash, the world isn't "ideal" and you can't get all your toys handed to you on a silver platter. But with just a little effort, you can manage to get what you need - when you consider the models available in past times, it's not hard to argue that the present is the Golden Age of the hobby, between all the older stuff on the secondary market and all the newer HQ items, it's a no brainer
Not your problem but here on the local secondary market, BB kits, old Tycho and the like are getting ridiculously expensive because they’re Rare!!!
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
slammin Fact is, most of those kits that Trainman440 is longing for are still out there. The old Mantua, Bowser steam engines, even an occasional Penn Line, turn up at train shows and on eBay. The old wood craftsman car kits, Silver Streak, Ambroid, etc. are still offered. If you don't like the new laser cut structure kits, you still have lots of Campbell (still available new), Ayres, Fine Scale Miniatures, and dozens of other long gone manufacturers. If you really want to go old school, you can find plenty of code 100 brass track and various Tru-Scale items. Many of us old farts stock piled this stuff decades ago. Some have left for the big station in the sky, others have decided to find new homes for the stuff while they are still kicking. While some sellers want insane prices for the old stuff (and usually don't get it) many price things to sell. Sometimes those items can be had for less than the new 1950's prices. If you want to jump in the time machine and head for 1960, do it, you can.
Fact is, most of those kits that Trainman440 is longing for are still out there. The old Mantua, Bowser steam engines, even an occasional Penn Line, turn up at train shows and on eBay. The old wood craftsman car kits, Silver Streak, Ambroid, etc. are still offered. If you don't like the new laser cut structure kits, you still have lots of Campbell (still available new), Ayres, Fine Scale Miniatures, and dozens of other long gone manufacturers. If you really want to go old school, you can find plenty of code 100 brass track and various Tru-Scale items. Many of us old farts stock piled this stuff decades ago. Some have left for the big station in the sky, others have decided to find new homes for the stuff while they are still kicking. While some sellers want insane prices for the old stuff (and usually don't get it) many price things to sell. Sometimes those items can be had for less than the new 1950's prices. If you want to jump in the time machine and head for 1960, do it, you can.
Good grief, yes. I haven't gone to a train show in the last decade that wasn't overflowing with Athearn blue box kits, just to name one. Between Ebay and train shows, if you can't find what you're looking for, you're not looking.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
I LIVED through those "good old days" and HOO BOY am I glad they're gone!
There are a TON of articles on the MR archive on scratchbuilding. They did their last "Scratcbuild a brass engine" series about 20 years ago or so. The plans and articles are there, you can still get brass sheets. You can do as much "hands on" as you want in this hobby.And I for one am DEVOUTLY glad that I don't have to **** around with trying to balance a motor armature to try to get the stupid thing to run well, or have to turn my own flywheels on a lathe, or any of the THOUSAND other things we used to have to do.
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL my current lifestyle and work requires a new, up to date vehicle, and my wife also prefers to drive fairly new cars. I imagine most of us would say the same thing, but the money isn't there afford up-to-date vehicles. Count your blessings that you can. Hmmm I don’t think that the whole current pre ordering thing fits into my definition of a Golden Age; I’m just thankful I don’t have to rely on it as a way of building a roster. Cheers, the Bear. News flash, the world isn't "ideal" and you can't get all your toys handed to you on a silver platter. But with just a little effort, you can manage to get what you need - when you consider the models available in past times, it's not hard to argue that the present is the Golden Age of the hobby, between all the older stuff on the secondary market and all the newer HQ items, it's a no brainer.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL my current lifestyle and work requires a new, up to date vehicle, and my wife also prefers to drive fairly new cars.
I imagine most of us would say the same thing, but the money isn't there afford up-to-date vehicles. Count your blessings that you can.
Hmmm I don’t think that the whole current pre ordering thing fits into my definition of a Golden Age; I’m just thankful I don’t have to rely on it as a way of building a roster. Cheers, the Bear.
Cheers, the Bear.
News flash, the world isn't "ideal" and you can't get all your toys handed to you on a silver platter.
But with just a little effort, you can manage to get what you need - when you consider the models available in past times, it's not hard to argue that the present is the Golden Age of the hobby, between all the older stuff on the secondary market and all the newer HQ items, it's a no brainer.
Keep in mind I kept the last truck 15 years........even if a person finances a vehicle, thst would still be 10 years of no car payment to save up for the next one.
I was rasied in a way that taught me to live within my means, even back when I had much less thsn I do now.
And for many years I drove used cars that I fixed myself. Now I don't have to.
Sheldon
The pre-order thing doesn't really work for me either, but with little effort, you can manage to get what you need by watching vendors for when items come in stock.
When you consider the models available in past times, it's not hard to argue that the present is the Golden Age of the hobby, between all the older stuff on the secondary market and all the newer HQ items, it's pretty hard to not be pleased with that is availble.
If I spend $360 on a steam engine, and it doesn't stay coupled to the tender, derails, and the drive axel is bent, I'm not going to try and fix it. It's going back for a replacement. If I buy a $260 steam engine and it comes with a bent whistle and disculored plastic at the bend, I'm returning it. I have the capability to fix it, paint it, but why should I accept that out of the box on such an expensive engine?
I think the better question is, why don't you care if you spend hundreds on a broken model?
IRONROOSTER ATLANTIC CENTRAL riogrande5761 IRONROOSTER Almost everything in HO that was available when I started in 1971, has an equivalent product available today with 2 exceptions. One is locomotive kits. I don't know of any in any scale, being made currently in/for the U.S. Paul In the voice of Shrek - Hold the phone! How about in HO scale both Athearn and Intermountain make kit versions of their RTR diesels. Athearn has been producing kit HO diesels for at least the past 10-12 years, albiet undecorated locomotive kits - but kits none the less. Feast your eyes on the long list from Athearns website. Those are Athearn HO diesels in undecorated kit form with parts in a bag, often letting you build and paint to a particular RR's specs. Linky to the goods: http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=undecorated&PageSize=72&OA=True And for your edification, Intermountains link with undec loco kits on the way: http://www.intermountain-railway.com/newshocomingsoon.html There is more comprehensive info on the website on current and past offerings. Of course many are sold out but as you can see they continue to produce new runs of kit loco's and other rolling stock. So does Intermountain and ExactRail and Tangent. I know I harp that there is tons of older kits on the secondary market but Atlas and Accurail continue to produce new kits as well - those are painted and lettered like the kits of yor. I'm pretty sure when Paul says "locomotive kit" he is refering to one where the builder assembles the drive mechanism.........like the Mantua steam locos I was building at age 15........ Sheldon Yes, and like the Bowser K4 I built my second year in the hobby - 1972. Paul
ATLANTIC CENTRAL riogrande5761 IRONROOSTER Almost everything in HO that was available when I started in 1971, has an equivalent product available today with 2 exceptions. One is locomotive kits. I don't know of any in any scale, being made currently in/for the U.S. Paul In the voice of Shrek - Hold the phone! How about in HO scale both Athearn and Intermountain make kit versions of their RTR diesels. Athearn has been producing kit HO diesels for at least the past 10-12 years, albiet undecorated locomotive kits - but kits none the less. Feast your eyes on the long list from Athearns website. Those are Athearn HO diesels in undecorated kit form with parts in a bag, often letting you build and paint to a particular RR's specs. Linky to the goods: http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=undecorated&PageSize=72&OA=True And for your edification, Intermountains link with undec loco kits on the way: http://www.intermountain-railway.com/newshocomingsoon.html There is more comprehensive info on the website on current and past offerings. Of course many are sold out but as you can see they continue to produce new runs of kit loco's and other rolling stock. So does Intermountain and ExactRail and Tangent. I know I harp that there is tons of older kits on the secondary market but Atlas and Accurail continue to produce new kits as well - those are painted and lettered like the kits of yor. I'm pretty sure when Paul says "locomotive kit" he is refering to one where the builder assembles the drive mechanism.........like the Mantua steam locos I was building at age 15........ Sheldon
riogrande5761 IRONROOSTER Almost everything in HO that was available when I started in 1971, has an equivalent product available today with 2 exceptions. One is locomotive kits. I don't know of any in any scale, being made currently in/for the U.S. Paul In the voice of Shrek - Hold the phone! How about in HO scale both Athearn and Intermountain make kit versions of their RTR diesels. Athearn has been producing kit HO diesels for at least the past 10-12 years, albiet undecorated locomotive kits - but kits none the less. Feast your eyes on the long list from Athearns website. Those are Athearn HO diesels in undecorated kit form with parts in a bag, often letting you build and paint to a particular RR's specs. Linky to the goods: http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=undecorated&PageSize=72&OA=True And for your edification, Intermountains link with undec loco kits on the way: http://www.intermountain-railway.com/newshocomingsoon.html There is more comprehensive info on the website on current and past offerings. Of course many are sold out but as you can see they continue to produce new runs of kit loco's and other rolling stock. So does Intermountain and ExactRail and Tangent. I know I harp that there is tons of older kits on the secondary market but Atlas and Accurail continue to produce new kits as well - those are painted and lettered like the kits of yor.
IRONROOSTER Almost everything in HO that was available when I started in 1971, has an equivalent product available today with 2 exceptions. One is locomotive kits. I don't know of any in any scale, being made currently in/for the U.S. Paul
Almost everything in HO that was available when I started in 1971, has an equivalent product available today with 2 exceptions.
One is locomotive kits. I don't know of any in any scale, being made currently in/for the U.S.
Paul
In the voice of Shrek - Hold the phone!
How about in HO scale both Athearn and Intermountain make kit versions of their RTR diesels.
Athearn has been producing kit HO diesels for at least the past 10-12 years, albiet undecorated locomotive kits - but kits none the less.
Feast your eyes on the long list from Athearns website. Those are Athearn HO diesels in undecorated kit form with parts in a bag, often letting you build and paint to a particular RR's specs. Linky to the goods:
http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=undecorated&PageSize=72&OA=True
And for your edification, Intermountains link with undec loco kits on the way:
http://www.intermountain-railway.com/newshocomingsoon.html
There is more comprehensive info on the website on current and past offerings.
Of course many are sold out but as you can see they continue to produce new runs of kit loco's and other rolling stock. So does Intermountain and ExactRail and Tangent. I know I harp that there is tons of older kits on the secondary market but Atlas and Accurail continue to produce new kits as well - those are painted and lettered like the kits of yor.
I'm pretty sure when Paul says "locomotive kit" he is refering to one where the builder assembles the drive mechanism.........like the Mantua steam locos I was building at age 15........
Yes, and like the Bowser K4 I built my second year in the hobby - 1972.
That's the year I turned 15........
Old Thumper No Sheldon, I will not "get over it", thank you very much... I will continue to build stick and tissue airplanes (currently working on a Guillows DC3), and I will continue to assemble MDC, Bowser, Tyco/Mantua locomotive kits (currently working on a MDC 3 truck Shay), and Roundhouse, Silverstreak, Ambroid, etc HO RR car kits (currently working on a Silverstreak Bobber Caboose), no matter how difficult they become to find. Atta boy Charles! Keep the faith :)
No Sheldon, I will not "get over it", thank you very much... I will continue to build stick and tissue airplanes (currently working on a Guillows DC3), and I will continue to assemble MDC, Bowser, Tyco/Mantua locomotive kits (currently working on a MDC 3 truck Shay), and Roundhouse, Silverstreak, Ambroid, etc HO RR car kits (currently working on a Silverstreak Bobber Caboose), no matter how difficult they become to find.
Atta boy Charles! Keep the faith :)
Thumper, I do that sort of stuff too, although I never got that deep into airplanes, the one owner I worked for, who is still a close friend, was a pattern airplane designer/scratch builder, and is still actively building and flying, mostly scale stuff now.
In model trains I have built my share of loco kits, craftsman rolling stock and structures, hand layed track, built turnouts and I take these new RTR locos and kit bash them into all sorts of stuff. And I add to my stock of unbuilt kits at least as fast as I build them.
But expecting others to embrace the hobby the same way you do is unrealistic at best - that is what I was refering to.
Demand will determine supply, but I suspect kit locos are pretty much a dead issue from a new production standpoint. Bowser got to the point where they could not give them away - until they said they would not make any more. But now that those are gone, there is no great outcry for more......
Hardly any of the 40 steam locos on my layout are "stock", but rather than build old kits, I prefer to kit bash newer production RTR - same with diesels. I like higher detail than the old kits offered, and the time and cost in super detailing them would detract from the "total" activity experiance of model railroading for me.
Everyone finds their own balance based on their interests, skills, budget and space.
It is a diverse hobby, that will only continue to become more so.
Trainman440From what I have learned, Model Railroading in the 19's had a LOT more hands on doing. Now, everything is premade, pre-superdetailed, pre installed DCC sound, and very $$$.
everything ??
there is nothing preventing you from buying components and raw materials to
its up to you to decide how to spend your time and $$ to get the most satisfaction
i doubt you will ever have time for all of these and may currently lack the skills, but both may come with time, along with the motiviation.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
“For example, I've been buying engines off the Bay that had a really minor problems (broken motor wire, missing wheel contacts, etc) and the owner sold as Restoration required. Not that getting a GREAT deal is bad, but its sad to see that they couldn't fix a minor problem.”
Old Thumper I basically agree with Charles here, but it's not just model trains, and actually it's not just hobbies. Hobbies: Go to a hobby shop that caters to RC airplanes now... When I was 15, the local hobby shop (Fitts Photo & Hobby in No. Hampton, NH) had balsa airplane kits stacked up on every wall in the shop. There was 1 case with engines, another case with radios, and racks filled with hardware that was needed to make an RC plane air-worthy. Go to an RC airplane shop now (if you can find one) and you basically get to choose between "Ready To Fly" or "Almost Ready To Fly" (not sure what the difference is). When you open a box, the plane is already built, the electric motor is already installed, and the radio is already installed. "Building an RC Airplane" now pretty much means just attaching the wing with rubber bands. What happened to gluing sticks and ribs together and covering with tissue, silkspan, or Monocote ? Other than hobbies.... How many people now actually service their own vehicles? Granted, most people don't want to change a timing belt, or even replace brakes, but it is still relatively simple to do an oil change. But how many do it? I still do all my own vehicle maintenance, but it seems like fewer and fewer people are doing this now. The times they are a changin .... I do applaud Charles for being one of the few 15 year olds who is into building models in 2016. When I was 15, it seemed like all kids were interested in building models and go-carts, etc. But now it seems that more kids are too busy with video games and searching for the elusive "Pokemon" (whatever the hell that is) ...
I basically agree with Charles here, but it's not just model trains, and actually it's not just hobbies.
Hobbies: Go to a hobby shop that caters to RC airplanes now... When I was 15, the local hobby shop (Fitts Photo & Hobby in No. Hampton, NH) had balsa airplane kits stacked up on every wall in the shop. There was 1 case with engines, another case with radios, and racks filled with hardware that was needed to make an RC plane air-worthy. Go to an RC airplane shop now (if you can find one) and you basically get to choose between "Ready To Fly" or "Almost Ready To Fly" (not sure what the difference is). When you open a box, the plane is already built, the electric motor is already installed, and the radio is already installed. "Building an RC Airplane" now pretty much means just attaching the wing with rubber bands. What happened to gluing sticks and ribs together and covering with tissue, silkspan, or Monocote ?
Other than hobbies....
How many people now actually service their own vehicles? Granted, most people don't want to change a timing belt, or even replace brakes, but it is still relatively simple to do an oil change. But how many do it? I still do all my own vehicle maintenance, but it seems like fewer and fewer people are doing this now. The times they are a changin .... I do applaud Charles for being one of the few 15 year olds who is into building models in 2016. When I was 15, it seemed like all kids were interested in building models and go-carts, etc. But now it seems that more kids are too busy with video games and searching for the elusive "Pokemon" (whatever the hell that is) ...
Well, Thumper, in my past I have restored automobiles from the ground up, rebuilt engines, etc, and if I still owned any of those classic cars, I would service them myself.
But my current lifestyle and work requires a new, up to date vehicle, and my wife also prefers to drive fairly new cars. As fate would have it, we ended up replacing both our vehicles last year.
So I don't change the oil in my wife's 2015 FORD FLEX LIMITED or my 2015 FORD F250 even though I have the skills, the tools and a garage to work in. Why you ask? Because those vehicles have 50,000 mile warranties that are better served by having dealer records of every service.
Example - my last truck, a 2000 F150, had a transmission failure at 4 years and 67,000 miles. The warranty was only 3/36,000 in those days. But because the dealer had done all the recommended services, the nice people at FORD rebuilt the transmission at NO COST to me.
That truck then lasted me 260,000 miles/15 years and is now serving its second owner well. I think I will continue to take my car to the dealer.........I don't think servicing your own car is a good comparison to building models as a hobby.
I worked in those kinds of hobby shops you talk about, from age 14 to age 22, but those days are gone - get over it.
The kids like Charles who want to be in that part of this hobby will find a mentor, or an online forum full of Dr. Wayne's and Sheldon's (no offense to anyone else - lots of you have displayed great work) who will point them in the right direction.
But my wife, the addictions Counselor, will tell you "you can only save those who want to be saved" - this is why I stay away from all "how do we get young people interested in the hobby" conversations. I don't know, and I'm not going to try.
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm pretty sure when Paul says "locomotive kit" he is refering to one where the builder assembles the drive mechanism.........like the Mantua steam locos I was building at age 15........ Sheldon Maybe, maybe not. But Athearn made diesel kits for many years in the blue box line and I'm pretty sure that falls into what many lament these days as no longer available. So don't count my suggestions out - they count unless you want to limit things to winding the darn armatures of motors too... and make things from the raw elements and be a real man! heh hah. Seriously, there is a whole gambit of locomotive kits we can throw at the wall and see if it sticks. Whatever. I think it is valid to point out the Athearn and Intermountain offerings if someone wants to "roll their own" - paint, apply details etc. We're talking diesels here. Steam isn't the only thing out there that sticks to the wall. Athearn and Intermountain ARE legit for diesel folks. Steam ain't my forte so I'll leave that to others.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm pretty sure when Paul says "locomotive kit" he is refering to one where the builder assembles the drive mechanism.........like the Mantua steam locos I was building at age 15........ Sheldon
Maybe, maybe not. But Athearn made diesel kits for many years in the blue box line and I'm pretty sure that falls into what many lament these days as no longer available. So don't count my suggestions out - they count unless you want to limit things to winding the darn armatures of motors too... and make things from the raw elements and be a real man! heh hah.
Seriously, there is a whole gambit of locomotive kits we can throw at the wall and see if it sticks. Whatever.
I think it is valid to point out the Athearn and Intermountain offerings if someone wants to "roll their own" - paint, apply details etc. We're talking diesels here. Steam isn't the only thing out there that sticks to the wall. Athearn and Intermountain ARE legit for diesel folks. Steam ain't my forte so I'll leave that to others.
Agreed, most all of my diesels come from the kind of diesel kits you describe, drive ready to go, shell requires detailing and painting....I am after all a freelance/protolance modeler.
But back in the day, Varney, Hobbytown, Pennline, Athearn, and a list of others made diesel kits that required assembly of the drive. Some were rather easy, some required some "machine skills". But many were no more difficult than taking a Proto2000 loco apart and putting it back together.
As for steam, there were number of them as well, Pennline - later Bowser, Varney, Mantua, Model Die Casting and others. Again, some relatively easy, some requiring more skill.......
By age 15, I was working in the LHS, and was doing most of the repairs that came in - LIONEL, Mantua/Tyco, Athearn, Varney, MDC - we were a service center for most of the big brands.
The good thing about this hobby there are products for all skill levels, from R-T-R to craftmans kits. Even with structures the manufactures are coming out with more fully built and detailed structures. This is the case except for locomotives. I would like the products like Kemtron or Ken Kiddler for steam locomotive kits.
I learned how to scratch build houses from Campbell and Classic Miniature kits. I wish there was a basic steam locomotive kit, a 4-4-0 for example, that will take you through the steps that a scratch builder would go through.
One is locomotive kits. I don't know of an,y in any scale, being made currently in/for the U.S. (I have heard there are some brass kits in England, but don't know much about them). Yes there are still locomotive kits on the secondary market, but the quality of these are all over the place, you may be able to upgrade open frame motors with can motors, better gears, etc. but you are on your own to find them. (Hint: start with Northwest Shortline).
Two is passenger car kits - there are some, but the Athearn and Roundhouse lines don't seem to have any equivalents today. Again the secondary market may help.
Scratchbuilding/parts supplies are available in most scales, but may be harder to find these days and there is not as much available.
Structure kits in all scales are plentiful.
Freight car kits in HO are plentiful, but very few in S and O. http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/ has some of the old wooden craftsman kits, they seem to be pretty much the same as they were 40 years ago. LaBelle is another company from the past still in business with HO and O kits.
And you can still buy hornhook couplers - Walthers makes them!
So it's there. I enjoy the old kits, but many of them are not as good as what's available RTR today. I build them because I enjoy doing so.
DAVID FORTNEYWhen I first built a layout back in the 1960's there were tons of freight car kits and engines. Some good but most engines in those days were junk and not worth the cheap price even then.
Unless they was built from a kit and they ran as good as the builder.
The best running locomotives was the brass stream locomotives and the brass diesels required rebuilding-that KMT drive found in the Alco Models,Trains Inc and Hallmark diesels.. The improved Athearn mid 60's drive was superior in every way.
I fully agree we are living in the golden age of model railroading and we still have choices.
I favor P2K, Atlas/Kato,Atlas Classics,Athearn RTR,my single Kato GP35, Atlas/Roco S-4s and my trusty BB engines. My Genesis SCL GP9 is ok but,cost me $25.00 to have the burned out lights replaced with LEDs.I'll head out tomorrow to pick her up and return her to home rails.
We have the best freight cars and locomotives ever made and one of the best control systems ever made.
IMHO one of the biggest breakthroughs in the hobby was MRC's "Golden Throttle Pack"(501) of the early 60s. The pulse power tamed a lot of those to fast locomotives.