As a civil engineer, the biggest thing I see wrong on most layouts (besides the despicable lichen trees that I don't care for, which also disintegrate too easily) are the unprototypically steep ground slopes that many folks have, approaching vertical.
In real life that usually only occurs in very high quality rock cuts, and then usually the telltale ribbons from blasting are visible on those rock slopes. There are recent rock cuts along 4-lane highways in my area that have actually failed; fortunately PennDOT designed a "fall zone" at the bottom to allow for that. They knew the rock was not all high quality.
Natural ground slopes in anything other than high quality rock should not exceed 1.5 (horizontal) to 1 vertical, with 2:1 or 3:1 being much more common. Anything planted in grass that is actually mowed or maintained has to be 3:1 or flatter, desirably 4:1 for mowing.
One caveat: those folks modeling Pocahontas regions like the Clinchfield may see some steep cut slopes. But the rest of us should not.
John
PRR8259I'm not Catholic but I must go to confession:
This could be the inspiriation for a new cliche - a drive up window for a Catholic Confession... the sign says "Toot & Tell"
Because everyone should and do model what appeals to them.
its all fantasyland
I see things that bug me, but it's not my choice, it's the owners.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
NittanyLion I'm always bothered by engineering impossibilities. The rabbit warren mountain, for example. You know exactly what I'm describing.
I'm always bothered by engineering impossibilities. The rabbit warren mountain, for example. You know exactly what I'm describing.
No, I don't. Could you elaborate? (Sorry, I'm slow.)
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
steemtrayn NittanyLion I'm always bothered by engineering impossibilities. The rabbit warren mountain, for example. You know exactly what I'm describing. No, I don't. Could you elaborate? (Sorry, I'm slow.)
I had to Google it, too...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_warren_layout
Regards, Ed
First, let me say,I'll defend anyone to do whatever with there trains,it's your hobby.
But,,dont show a picture of an ovel of track,tyco rolling stock,horn hook couplers,unpainted snap together building and Hot Wheels, and call it a "layout"
IMO to call that a layout is a insult to all the folks that spent thousands of hours of work to get thire "layouts" to look as close to real as possible
gmpullman hon30critter That ought to light the discussion up a bit! If that doesn't... this will! How about the big chunk of bent pipe sticking out of the bottom of the coupler? Don't read me wrong—I love and exclusively use Kadee's excellent products—but it seems amusing to see a superbly detailed model with everything on it accurately scale-sized and then you see that big chunk of 3" steel pipe sticking out of the bottom of the coupler Personally, I clip all mine off. Have FUN, Ed Hello Ed, After you cut off the 3" pipe do you add a scale air hose that is too short to couple to another car? Mark
hon30critter That ought to light the discussion up a bit!
If that doesn't... this will!
How about the big chunk of bent pipe sticking out of the bottom of the coupler?
Don't read me wrong—I love and exclusively use Kadee's excellent products—but it seems amusing to see a superbly detailed model with everything on it accurately scale-sized and then you see that big chunk of 3" steel pipe sticking out of the bottom of the coupler
Personally, I clip all mine off.
Have FUN, Ed
Hello Ed,
After you cut off the 3" pipe do you add a scale air hose that is too short to couple to another car?
Mark
mvlandswAfter you cut off the 3" pipe do you add a scale air hose that is too short to couple to another car?
I don't go out of my way to add air hoses. If they're already there, i.e. Exactrail, Tangent, Kadee, Genesis, some brass, etc. I'll keep them.
IF I live long enough, I might get around to adding air hoses and angle cocks to my 400 or so freight cars but for now I'll rely on the engineer using the independent brake
It's not really that the air hoses are too short, it's that the coupler shanks are too long—and necessarily so on our laughingly tight radius curves.
It's all about compromise...
UNCLEBUTCH But,,dont show a picture of an ovel of track,tyco rolling stock,horn hook couplers,unpainted snap together building and Hot Wheels, and call it a "layout" IMO to call that a layout is a insult to all the folks that spent thousands of hours of work to get thire "layouts" to look as close to real as possible
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
gmpullman mvlandsw After you cut off the 3" pipe do you add a scale air hose that is too short to couple to another car? IF I live long enough, I might get around to adding air hoses and angle cocks to my 400 or so freight cars... Regards, Ed
mvlandsw After you cut off the 3" pipe do you add a scale air hose that is too short to couple to another car?
IF I live long enough, I might get around to adding air hoses and angle cocks to my 400 or so freight cars...
Those angle cocks... Will they be open? Or closed?
My favorite JPU on the SLO&W... And yes I am leaving it right where it is!
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
Guy Papillon UNCLEBUTCH But,,dont show a picture of an ovel of track,tyco rolling stock,horn hook couplers,unpainted snap together building and Hot Wheels, and call it a "layout" IMO to call that a layout is a insult to all the folks that spent thousands of hours of work to get thire "layouts" to look as close to real as possible With due respect for you opinion, what do you consider a true layout? What is the lower limit of what you consider acceptable as so? How many hours should be invested in a real layout? How much money one should invest to be considered a layout owner?
a model ; a small object,usually built to scale,that represents an existing object.
you can invest as mutch time and money as you want/can. You can do what ever you get enjoyment from,your trains,have at it.
Just dont compare your "toy train set" to my "Model Railroad"
Well here is the cop pulling someone over scene.
But this is an old picture and the CHP is now on display at the car show.
Here is my building that is burning. It is on a movie set where it is lit up every day, just like the real ones at Universal Studios.
Here is the dog and fire hydrant. (Near RR crossing sign)
Here is the Walthers backdrop.
Sorry I don't have any dinosaurs but I do have a dragon.
As for punny names here is a sign for Caliente Used Cars. Caliente is Spainish for hot.
Sorry I don't have the mill or the mine, and the people around campfires on my layout are campers, not bums.
Anyway this was a nice excuse to share some pictures. Enjoy you hobby. If you're smiling you're doing it right.
j...........
Uncle butch,
your opinion on what makes a layout sounds very elitist to me and I'm sure to others.
I get to see allot of layouts from very simple to very complex. A few people I have were a few guys with physical and mental issues who have built layouts that were simple but very attractive. Would you tell them you would not like to see them?
They are very proud of what they accomplished and they love to tell you all about it. It is very therapeutic for these types of people.
To demean the types of layouts that you don't like just shows what kind of person you are.
OOPs!
Now the fire in the IRS building has spread to the thread. Darn plastic fire hydrants!!
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I look at the burning building this way. A building is only going to burn for one day. Unless you are going to model a specific day over and over again (and I've read about modelers who do), it really strains reality to have the same building on fire day after day. It might make an interesting feature on a diorama but I wouldn't put one on my layout. For those that do, well, it's your railroad.
[/quote]
Isn't this so for any vehicles or figures on a layout UNLESS you move them around for each operating session? For that matter,,, Do the seasons or weather change on a layout? Its not normally a sunny bright cloudless day EVERY DAY :-) But hey if you like it that way...build it that way!
Personally when I see a layout that is "prototypical" and the vehicles are driverless or during night sessions, the lights are on everywhere but the headlights of the vehicles...that makes me smile. Doesnt bother me since I proscribe to the 'it's your railroad... build it....run it...enjoy it' as you see fit!
David,While I may not like those types of layouts personally I still enjoy looking at them.
Why?
Brings back memories when the hobby was simpler with those painted green hills filled with lichen trees. Just the smell of lichen brings back a lot of happy memories.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE David,While I may not like those types of layouts personally I still enjoy looking at them. Why? Brings back memories when the hobby was simpler with those painted green hills filled with lichen trees. Just the smell of lichen brings back a lot of happy memories.
Lone Wolf and Santa FeAs for punny names here is a sign for Caliente Used Cars. Caliente is Spainish for hot.
Going back to my model railroading roots - Contemporary (1964) Trackside Photos had a remarkable number of Ideal cardboard factories (sawtooth roofline) and Eric Stevens coaling stations. As for the latter, was a kit ever offered, or were they all scratchbuilt?
My headscratchers are things that would only last a short time in real life that are caught in a stasis field on a layout that claims to represent a ten year time span. These include track repair work, the cop chasing the burglar (mask, striped shirt, bag of loot...) and just about any kind of 'under construction' scene.
I also shudder at inappropriate bridges, either far too expensive for the application (200 foot truss over a rural road, a minor stream and a one track rail right-of-way) or structurally unsound. Okay, I admit that most of the guilty modelers have never studied strength of materials...
As for the rabbit warren, if you build through broken country you will have lots of tunnels, sharp curves and bridges. I have even seen a prototype for the cliche Lionel 'hump with a portal at each end' tunnel - but only one, and it had a valid reason for being that way. My own 'rabbit warrens' are pretty obvious as to purpose, and each is on a point-to-point route with two visible ends.
As for the Edna ("New River") mine being a prepackaged kitbashing project, second the motion.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
DAVID FORTNEY Uncle butch, your opinion on what makes a layout sounds very elitist to me and I'm sure to others. I get to see allot of layouts from very simple to very complex. A few people I have were a few guys with physical and mental issues who have built layouts that were simple but very attractive. Would you tell them you would not like to see them? They are very proud of what they accomplished and they love to tell you all about it. It is very therapeutic for these types of people. To demean the types of layouts that you don't like just shows what kind of person you are.
I see, so free speech and opionions are welcomed, untill someone takes your words out of context and becomes offended.
you win , wont ever happen again
Hi all
Well if you really want to cause a contraversy do what I did,
I figured every one has another @#!^%&%$# wedding on thier exhibition layouts
some that should have had the chimney sweep present did not.
I think the wedding tends to get a bit well over done at exhibition's.
So OK I thought Langley do a nice horse drawn herse kit pall bearers the whole thing coffin included.
So I thought I know I will do a funeral instead well, Oh Dear!! good thing guns are illigal in Australia other wise I think I would have been attending my own funeral.
But if I ever do another exhibition layout I think I will be obstinent and a right royal pain with capitals and do it again.
Just because it was different.
regards John
John BusbyJust because it was different.
John, I can go along with different.
I once saw a display layout that had a 8" Godzilla,HO Army tanks,rocket launchers and a Movie crew. The streets was blocked off and he added spectators behind the barricades. Very nice overall. The following year the movie set was gone from his layout and I notice new buildings.. I spoke at length with him and he told me he likes to keep his layout fresh.
IIRC the layout was a well detail 4x8 with a single loop of track some industry sidings. It was build for display even though he would occasionally switch the industries. ..
Hi Lone Wolf and Santa Fe
OOH!! Thats different and ice dragon no less, won't burn you but its breath will certainly make you a whole lot cooler just not the way you would like.
That was miserable not giving the dog a propper tree shame on you
thanks for the pictures
UNCLEBUTCHcall it a "layout"
Russell
"It's the South Shore Line, Jim - but not as we know it".
tomikawaTT As for the rabbit warren, if you build through broken country you will have lots of tunnels, sharp curves and bridges. I have even seen a prototype for the cliche Lionel 'hump with a portal at each end' tunnel - but only one, and it had a valid reason for being that way. My own 'rabbit warrens' are pretty obvious as to purpose, and each is on a point-to-point route with two visible ends.
I was speaking more to this end. That hill is going to have some serious stability issues and raises plenty of "if this was real" questions.
Greetings,
The cliche that rather annoys me is when someone asks if I've ever or if I would do the Gomez Adams crash and burn thing. After requesting several hundred dollars to do it, it is amazing how the subject changes or you hear, "I never realized they cost that much. "
Happy Railroading,
Bobster
Modeling in N scale: Rock Island freight and passenger, with a touch of the following; Wabash Cannon Ball, CB&Q passenger, and ATSF freight and passenger. I played in Peoria (Heights).
NittanyLion tomikawaTT As for the rabbit warren, if you build through broken country you will have lots of tunnels, sharp curves and bridges. I have even seen a prototype for the cliche Lionel 'hump with a portal at each end' tunnel - but only one, and it had a valid reason for being that way. My own 'rabbit warrens' are pretty obvious as to purpose, and each is on a point-to-point route with two visible ends. I was speaking more to this end. That hill is going to have some serious stability issues and raises plenty of "if this was real" questions.
If I may..I call that a "casual" layout because such layouts is popular with "casual' modelers that lurks in the shadows-all hobbies has them.
Casual modelers is Jane or John Doe that isn't fully committed to the hobby but,enjoys the simpler side of the hobby whenever the mood may strike do something with the train set. They may still use X2F couplers on their train set style cars and locomotives or they may even use DCC like Bachmann E-Z DCC and KD couplers..
There is absolutely no harm in that style of layout for those that like them..
UncleButch,You said that an oval of track, Tyco rolling stock, hornhook couplers, unpainted snap-together buildings, and Hot Wheels is not a layout. Um, actually, it is a layout. It is, however, not a very good one.
I don't know how calling even a poor layout a "layout" is an insult to anyone. Why would someone take offense to that?
Now, if someone were to say that their Tyco, hornhook, Plasticville, and Hot Wheels layout is just as high quality as a Koester, Sellios, Furlow, or Pryke layout, then I could see the point of taking offense and calling it out as such. But just for the term "layout"? Sorry, but "layout" implies no quality, just like calling a model locomotive a "locomotive" doesn't. Even the worst piece of junk loco from the depths of Yugoslavia is still a loco; calling the horrible AHM RS-2 a loco doesn't insult Kato RS-2 locos.
Otherwise, only Proto:87 modelers have "layouts". Those are the guys that use individual tie plates...in HO scale. They think that Code 88 wheels are too fat. That Kadee semi-scale #58's are too big. And so on. Of course, few of their layouts are bigger than a module or shelf layout, but they are of the highest quality and fidelity to the real thing.
I have to laugh at your "free speech" crack. There is no free speech protection here. It's Kalmbach's forum. They can censor any of us for any reason. The 1st Amendment only applies to government censorship, not to private companies.Opinions have always been welcomed here, but they are not always agreed with. If you post your opinion, be prepared for a contrary one posted back at you. Defend your opinion, and in the resulting debate, maybe the rest of us will learn something. That's the way the internet has worked for the last 20 years I've been online.
Paul A. Cutler III