I am curios about railroad clubs and exactly how they work. The nearest one is just over an hour away and I dont really like to drive. I was kind of thinking of startin one up locally. What should I consider, have and dont have, etc.. Thanks.
Sean, the unknown train travler,
That's a huge topic.
The big issues are,
What does the club own (versus the members owning), and how is that paid for?
Does it charge dues so that it can rent a location (meaning either lots of members or pretty high dues)?
Or does one member generously agree to host, which is how a lot of teenage type train clubs work, or worked. In which case who really owns that layout and can he terminate the club on a whim (or a job change)? If the host really owns everything then be cautious about chipping in to pay for stuff. IF a guy leaves you do not want him undoing your track work so he can take "his" double slip switch home with him for example.
Who decides what scale, what era, what prototype? DCC or DC or battery? You need a democracy or a dictator.
Who can join? Anyone? Standards? Probation? Lots of clubs have been torn apart by disruptive members (e.g. guys who'd come in on off days and undo other guys' work and do things their way). I know one club that was nearly torn apart by disruption when they admitted a teen who turned out to have serious ADD issues and they did not know what to do about him.
Are there firm rules? Elected officials? Actual legal incorporation?
I am just listing a few issues.
I think most really successful clubs are started by guys who have been members of clubs before. I do not know of a resource that really guides a person on how to start or run a club. Perhaps the NMRA has something. Decades ago (and I mean the WW II era) Al Kalmbach as "Boomer Pete" published a book on how to start and run a club, using a lot of paperwork from a Detroit club as the basis.
Dave Nelson
You will need to find a cheap location. I’ve heard stories of clubs leasing old depots for $1 a year because they are abandoned and now owned by a local government which will do it in the name of redevelopment.
You will need to find other like minded people to help you make it a club. Elect officers etc. Decided on what you are going to model and how often you meet.
j.........
why don't you start by inviting a fellow model railroader or two over to operate your layout? You can help operate their layout. You might help each other build each others layouts That will at least see if there are others also interested.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Hello all,
If you are considering beginning a formal club, it might be well worth the time and effort to visit your nearest club, albeit over an hour away.
Let them know your intentions of forming a club. If there truly is a need in your area; "anywhere but here", I'm sure they would be supportive of your efforts.
You should have some questions going in:
You can also contact The NMRA or a regional board member and see what information they can provide you about starting a formal club.
To start a formal club many of the above questions need to be addressed, especially insurance.
If you are just running informal op-sessions, if there is an incident then the insurance of the homeowner should cover it.
In this litigious atmosphere, if something does happen to a "member", it won't be the "member" who sues, it's typically the insurance company/lawyer that will pursue the action.
For now you might consider hosting informal op-sessions on your layout without the formalities of a club, as has been suggested.
Establishing a formal club is more complex than just announcing, "Hey folks let's build a layout and run some trains!"
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I'm a 23-year member of my club, a club that is 78 years old. We've seen it all.
My advice is to either be a full-on By-Laws, Rules & Regulations kind of club like mine (with officers, elections, committees, "Robert's Rules of Order", etc.), or go for the Round Robin type where everyone meets at a different member's house, and that member sets the rules for his layout. Going halfway invites trouble.
Be careful of the people you bring into the club. You're trusting them with your models, perhaps thousands of dollars worth. One wrong guy can destroy a club because the good members leave. No one wants to hang out with people they can't stand or trust.Make it difficult, but not impossible, to change the rules/by-laws. You don't want to be changing them constantly, but you don't want to stifle change. Our By-Law changes require a week's posted notice before the next monthy business meeting where it is simply read out loud, not voted on. The next monthly business meeting after that is when we vote on it, and it takes a 2/3rds majority to pass it. So it's hard (and slow), but not impossible to change our By-Laws.
Make sure all the rules apply to everyone equally. Sometimes you get folks who think the rules don't apply to them, which whips up resentment. Just because someone does a lot for the club, or is the elected leader, or is a friend of someone else, doesn't mean they get to violate the rules.Set high car/loco/track standards. No one likes to run a club where derailments (or uncouplings) are common.
Do things together away from the club. Have a holiday party, or a summer cookout, or a pot luck supper. Take a railfan trip somewhere. Build comraderie. It will hold the club together through tough times (and you will have them).
Paul A. Cutler III
Do yourself a favor and stay away from any club. Most are a pita with too many know it alls.
DAVID FORTNEYDo yourself a favor and stay away from any club. Most are a pita with too many know it alls.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I am no fan of a club, either!
In my student days many, many moons ago, I was a member of a club. All the red tape necessary to run a club really took the fun out of model railroading. With some 300 paying members, there was a lot of money involved in running this club, meaning the club officers had no time to work on the layout or even run a train.
I left the club and became a member of a round robin group building a modular layout. The modules remain the property of each member and they are set up in the basement of one of the members house. No dues, hardly any rules, just fun!
OK, this works only if you know each other very well. In our group, we know each other now for 40+ years!
jjdamnitWhat kind of insurance is carried by the club?
jjdamnitIn this litigious atmosphere, if something does happen to a "member", it won't be the "member" who sues, it's typically the insurance company/lawyer that will pursue the action.
Proper liability insurance is an absolute must, and it won't be cheap. If you are not fully covered you leave all of the members of the club wide open to law suits. Let's say a 'member' is involved in a serious car accident where someone is injured on the way home from a club meeting. By association, all members can be sued for a share of the damages. Let's say you have a friendly back yard BBQ with your members and somebody has a few too many beers. If they smash somebody else up on the way home you all pay, big time.
Fortunately the NMRA offers club insurance. It should be one of the first items that the new club deals with.
How do I know this? My Royal Canadian Air Cadet buddies decided to form an alumni association a few years ago, partly for fun and partly to benefit the Squadron. We went along merrily for about three years hosting golf tournaments and having regular parties. Then one of our alumni who was in the insurance business casually asked how we were covering our insurance costs since there were no dues being collected. When he found out we were not insured he said in very clear terms that we had our collective heads in the sand, or possibly up some other place that we can't mention but we pass gas from every day. He explained that an average law suit could cost us about $300,000 each or more! The necessary insurance would have cost us about $3,000 a year total. There were only about 30 of use so we decided that we weren't willing to pay $100 per year each just to have a few beers together. That was the end of the alumni association.
Whether or not that amount is reasonable for the members of a model railroad club is up to them. Obviously it will not be the only cost involved in running the club. The point is - don't go without proper insurance!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Suffice it to say I help start a club once..Never again will I even consider helping.
As far as club's there are good and bad..Over the years I been a member of both types.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have never been a member of a train club and never will join one.
It sure sounds like most forumites who are responding feel the same way as me.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainIt sure sounds like most forumites who are responding feel the same way as me. Rich
Rich,One thing I notice over the years in the various clubs I been a member is a new member rolls in and wants to do one of two things change the club policy about pooling models on operation nights or they're not a people person. At one club we had one to quit simply because none of his equipment would pass the basic car inspection of KD couplers and trip pins at the correct height and wheels in gauge. How childish is that? Several of us even offered to help him bring his stuff up to par.
Of course bad or worthless do nothing clubs leaves a bitter taste in a former members mouth and they wrongly judge all clubs by their bitter experience.
Maybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club.
Well, this thread pretty much seals the deal for me. I'll do my modeling, and run my small layout the way I want to, when I want to. Nothing against people that are happy being in a club, but I have way to many other interest, activities and commitments in my life. I don't need anything more that may complicate things.
When it gets to that point, the fun and enjoyment fades, no matter what type of club or organization you belong to, that started out with good intentions.
Mike.
My You Tube
richhotrainI have never been a member of a train club and never will join one. It sure sounds like most forumites who are responding feel the same way as me.
Come on Rich, on what do you base this assumption, three no club posts and only one with a reason.
Model Railroad clubs are by nature social organizations, and with that come all the vagaries of people of all stripes. As some have alluded too, there are good and bad, and an important "trick" to a successful club is to get all these people together, and marshall them to the goal of building and operating a satisfying layout.
Whoever is spearheading a new club is going to have to be a people person as well as passionate about model trains. It means you're going to have to be good at gathering people, raising funds, conflict resolution, and being a policeman to weed out the bad characters who come along, who may disrupt or drive off the decent folks.
Modelrailroading is full of a diverse lot, but includes a lot of grumpy opinionated old men too, as you can see by some of the replies here. Perhaps it's better some not be members of a club because it's important to be able to play nice in the sand box. But a big challenge to any club leader is to recognize who may be trouble and devisive and tactfully ensure they find another venue for their hobby outlet, and get together people who can make compromises, get along, share the load and enjoy the hobby together.
To the OP. If you are a people person and are up to the challenge, and a lot of work, then maybe starting a model railroad club is for you. Others have alluded to other important considerations.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
richhotrain I have never been a member of a train club and never will join one. It sure sounds like most forumites who are responding feel the same way as me.
And, in a subsequent reply, I did suggest that it would be informative if someone cared to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club.
richhotrain Maybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club. Rich
Rich,What's so bad? A person not getting their way? A person that can't rip into the scenery because he wants to do something his way?
I've just about seen every type including members thought they was a living legend and above all members-well,I suppose they was in their own minds because their "super modeling" was average at best.
The cold fact is some folks just ain't a people person or may be to childish or maybe bullheaded to be in a club.
How can anybody judge a club that has never been a member of one?
BRAKIE richhotrain Maybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club. Rich Rich,What's so bad? A person not getting their way? A person that can't rip into the scenery because he wants to do something his way? I've just about seen every type including members thought they was a living legend and above all members-well,I suppose they was in their own minds because their "super modeling" was average at best. The cold fact is some folks just ain't a people person or may be to childish or maybe bullheaded to be in a club. How can anybody judge a club that has never been a member of one?
Larry, I am not "judging" model railroad clubs. I am merely making an observation about what I often hear, and that is that most modelers have no interest in joining a club.
So far, you have only indicated that some people who join clubs shouldn't have because they lack modeling skills and/or people skills.
I didn't start this thread, and I am now sorry that I bothered to offer a reply. My sole purpose in replying at all was to simply observe that those replying before me seemed somewhat negative on the whole idea or at least cautionary.
I have always been curious about the nature and composition of model railroading clubs, so I began to follow this thread with interest. I am quickly losing interest.
Rich,No need to lose interest could turn out interesting.
Like I mention I help form a club once and never again..There's way to much foot work,very time consuming and yes,aggravating at times.
Now layout is built new members join on a regular bases and BOOM! issues start over model phosophys and that was never the intention of the club. The goal was a place for modelers together to have fun and run trains..
After the big blowup nay,explosion came the club reformed and is still going strong.Seven of us rebuilt the club with sticker guide lines and rules. Don't like the rules? Don't join or don't let the door smack you in the fanny as you depart.
I would be there today wasn't for my heart attack which left short winded with 5 flights of stairs to climb.
Curious.
A lot has been written here about the social aspect of clubs and the difficulty in reconciling different members' interests and opinions. I can't really speak to any of that, but someone did bring up organization type. I am a practicing CPA, and I will say this right now: I would find it hard to believe that any model railroad club that operates in the traditional manner (building a layout for the members to operate and enjoy) would truly qualify as a 501(c)(3).
First, understand that the status of an organization as exempt is determined at the Federal level, not by the choice of entity that is registered with the state. Whether an organization is tax exempt for purposes of Federal Income Tax has very little to do with what entity form it is organized as at the state level; a 'not for profit corporation' organized at the state level is not tax exempt unless it meets the requirements of one of the sections of section 501(c).
Second, there are several types of tax exempt organizations under the Internal Revenue Code. Organizations that meet the requirements of 501(c)(3) are broadly called 'charities.' The statutory language of IRC 501(c)(3) reads:
"... organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h) ), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."
A 501(c)(3) must serve a public, rather than a private purpose. So unless your model railroad club is organized and operated EXCLUSIVELY for the benefit of the public and not the club's members, it doesn't truly qualify as a 501(c)(3). "But, we submitted an application with the IRS to be treated as a 501(c)(3) and they accepted it!" you say. Well, that may be, but what did you put on the application? Does it truly reflect how you are organized and how you operate? A word of caution, if the IRS choses to audit your club and determines that you don't meet the requirements of IRC section 501(c)(3), the tax status of your organization will potentially revert to the default Federal tax treatment; if you are incorporated with the state, even as a 'not for profit' corporation, the default Federal tax treatment would have you be a corporation taxed like any other, with a maximum tax rate of 35%.
So what's the good news? Well, IRC section 501(c)(7) grants tax exempt status to:
"Clubs organized for pleasure, recreation, and other nonprofitable purposes, substantially all of the activities of which are for such purposes..."
Sounds a lot like a model railroad club to me. Most country clubs are organized as 501(c)(7)'s. What is the difference between a 501(c)(3) and (c)(7)? Well, donations to a (c)(7) are not tax deductible (side note, the dues you pay are not tax deductible even if you are organized as a (c)(3)). Additionally, amounts received from non-club members will be subject to Federal Income Tax, and no more than 35% of the total proceeds of the club can come from outside members.
So that's that. If you want to stretch the truth on your application for exempt status and be a 501(c)(3) and try to 'fly under the radar' of the IRS, you can try. The IRS's resources are limited, so I'm sure there are lots of people that will come forward and say "We're a 501(c)(3) and have never had a problem." That may be true, but it doesn't mean it's actually correct. A 501(c)(7) will accomplish the tax exempt goal for a club with minimal downside.
Just my $0.02.
Omaha Road ManSo what's the good news? Well, IRC section 501(c)(7) grants tax exempt status to: "Clubs organized for pleasure, recreation, and other nonprofitable purposes, substantially all of the activities of which are for such purposes..." Sounds a lot like a model railroad club to me.
This is exactly how our club is incorporated.
Good things about clubs:I have made some life-long friends in my club. There are 70 members in my club, and there have been many more that have come and gone in the past 23 years. These friends are worth a lot to me.
Because of these friends I've made, I've actually gotten a chance to do things I would never have thought I could do. I've operated an S-4, S-6, SW9, and a B23-7. I got a ride in a N-5 caboose. I have had cab rides in a GP38, GP28, FL9, B40-8W, B39-8, F40PH, and a cab control car. I got to do back shop tours at Southampton St. Shops in Boston (Amtrak), and inside the shops of the St. Lawrence & Atlantic RR in Maine.
Because of the club, a group of us took a sleeper to Chicago and railfanned at Rochelle and the IRM, took the Acela to NYC (3 times) and Washington, D.C., rode the Downeaster to Maine, the Vermonter to White River Jct., took the ride at the Wicasset, Waterville & Farmington, visited Steamtown three times, rode the East Broad Top and the Cass Scenic, stayed at the Bridgeview Inn, the Station Inn, and the Tunnel Inn.
Because of the club, I've got to know people in the manufacturing side of the hobby. I've helped get some products to market (Microscale NH steam decals, Athearn NH 50' TOFC, Athearn NH 40' box, BLI I-4 4-6-2, Rapido FL9, Rapido Osgood Bradley coaches, Athearn NH GP9's, Rapido NH 8600 coaches, Rapido RDC's, etc.). I've had dinner with reps from Athearn, Microscale, Rapido, & True Line Trains. I'm Facebook friends with some of them as well. Heck, my name was even in a full page ad in RMC for three months (more to my chagrin, really).
Getting back to the club itself, because I'm a member I learned a lot about model railroading: how to hand lay track, how to design an operation session, how to do scenery, how to wire a layout, how to custom paint equipment, etc.
Because of the club, I've had the chance to design a steel mill, a 60' leg of our layout (with a passenger terminal, engine/shop terminal, and freight terminal), and the 2nd half of our layout (roughly 50' x 50').
Where else can I run a 16 car passenger train on 40" curves on No. 8 switches? Where else can I be the pusher operator on a 110-car bathtub gon coal train? Where else can I be the chief dispatcher overseeing 20+ operators?A club can be a great experience with life-changing events, taking you places you'd never get to on your own. I'm glad I joined my club, the South Shore Model Railway Club in Hingham, MA:www.ssmrc.orgPaul A. Cutler III
I enjoy my club, but we're a very tight-knit group. These guys make up a fairly large part of my social circle. Have I learned a lot about modeling, both directly and indirectly? Sure! Are things always done the best way? Absolutely not. But for me, the social aspect is more important, and I wouldn't have our happy band of left-handed monkey wrenches any other way.
It's not that I hate clubs but being involved in a couple of them some years ago was not fun. Too many rules, too many arguments on what should be done and how we did it. Too many experts that thought their way was the only way.
I just wanted to have fun and run trains and make the layout the best we could. Never happened so away I went vowing never to do it again.
DAVID FORTNEYToo many experts that thought their way was the only way.
Yes, this can be a problem at a club, and over the years we've lost several members because of this. Unfortunately many of them thought that they were the experts and left because they didn't get their way. They didn't seem to understand that we weren't Burger King.
members of the Pacific
richhotrainMaybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club.
in the same way that model railroading is not for everyone, participating in a model railroad clubs is not for everyone.
is it really necessary to provide a reason why someone enjoys doing what they do?
and just as each modeler has a different set of interests in building a layout, there are many different types of clubs based on the chemistry of its members.