If you political leanings don't match up with the central cabal, ruling junta, or what ever you want to call it in the club, you will always be an outsider and detached.
traintravlerWhat should I consider, have and dont have, etc..
clubs, like many social and work activities depends on the chemistry of those participating. Some are successful and others less successful. Work environments face the same issues, but not participating has bigger ramifications (e.g. finding a new job).
Smarter, Faster, Better discusses the things that make successful teams and work environments. I believe many of these same ideas pertain to clubs (assuming everyone wants to particpate -- motivation is not a paycheck).
while the book discusses several aspects that help motivate people to participate and be more productive, it also discusses work cultures that are more successful. While the venture capitalists seem to think companies with super-star individuals will be more successful, the books says the statistics more than favor the companies that have a strong cultures giving everyone in the company a say in the companies success, emphasising values of listening to all viewpoints and the ability to contribute.
it makes similar comments about teams -- that more successful teams give everyone more equal time to speak and contribute to activities.
I believe many of the negative comments about clubs are attributed to the lack of the things I mention above. While the administrative details of a club can't be ignored, the culture may be more important.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Our club is pretty successful, for a couple of reasons. Several years ago, the need for a major construction project provided a make or break point. Up until then, it had been the usual free-for-all HO train club, with a little bit of drift toward proto-style operations.
The guys took a vote on whether to disband, go ahead with the project, or find another site. "Go ahead" won and about a third of the members quit because they didn't want to wait five years to run trains again. Another third drifted out over the next couple of years. The remainder, now remembered as "The Seven Dwarfs,"* used the work sessions to talk out what they really wanted to do and where they wanted the club to go. So, there was a unified purpose.
*much digging was involved
Then, instead of a big membership drive to populate the club, the seven guys kind of spread out through the local modeling community, seeking out people who fit well into their scheme of an operating late '70s railroad -- but mostly, people they wanted to be friends with. One and two at a time, they added people (myself included) and got to work on the layout. The layout was designed to be built in stages, so within a year of starting construction, they were having monthly op sessions on their plywood and flex track baby. By the time Phase 2 needed more people to run it, there were more people in the club. Now, all four planned phases function and we run eight hours of op sessions a month, keeping 18 to 20 people busy. At any given session, there are one or two guests, some of whom fade out and some of whom join.
Because the club had a clear purpose and added members a few at a time, it has been relatively easy to stay focused on the original goals. There is the occasional member who has problems working as part of a group, and there have been some who wanted to make major changes. But when people come around to visit, and well before they are voted in as members, they learn what the goals of the club are. Some have faded away, some "drink the Kool-Aid" and have fun with the rest of us.
The layout certainly wasn't built exactly to the original plan -- opportunities popped up to improve on an already good design, and now it's even better. The operating scheme has also evolved, with input from many different people.
Big egos are rarely a problem, and the club is structured so that it's hard for one or two people to dominate it. The group has also limited itself to 30 members, so everyone knows everybody else. New people don't get lost or ignored.
One advantage is that there are several other groups in our area, two of them with permanent layouts. If someone shows up but really isn't interested in diesel operating sessions, there are other local places for them to go.
So yes, a club can be a good situation and in our case, is a good answer for people who like to operate but can't, or don't want to, build and maintain a layout on their own. But it's a good club that took a decade or more to build.
· I met some great ffolkes, not necessarily with the same modelling interests.
· Some of those ffolkes are still good friends.
· I learnt a lot; in fact I’d go as far to say my bench work, track laying, and wiring, through the experience gained at the club, is bullet proof.
· With like minded modellers I learnt a lot more and also contributed (occasionally and surprisingly intelligently) in some amazing brainstorming sessions which were also great fun. These sessions, never planned, covered the whole spectrum of model railroading.
· I got to drool over, and run, locomotives and rolling stock that I would probably not have got to see as a lone wolf.
· The club has a great library for research and plain enjoyment. With the advent of the MR 75th Anniversary DVD set and continued improvements in accessing information on the internet now a days, this may not seem to be so important but it was certainly the mother lode for me back then.
· While a lot of hard work, I thought the effort that was put into putting on our annual show to promote the hobby was well worth it, especially the positive feedback from the general public.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I agree with almost everyone who has replied. If you had a great time with one or more clubs, then you definitely did. If you had a bad experience and a club, then you had a bad time at that club.
Now, to stasrt a new club, you need some like minded people, then you need a space, rented, free or nominal rent from some other organization.
Next you need all the decisions you would for a home layout, namely Road name, era, location on planet earth, etc. Then a track plan, and have at it.
Problems and pitfalls: Dues, expenses, etc.
How long does the President serve, how long does anyone serve on the excecutive body? Either the founders run things forever, or term limits must be imposed. I have been in groups, not all model RR, that went each way. Term limits seem to me to be better.
Are you going to be a permantently locasted club with open houses, are you going to be a portable club that takes part in shows. I suggest one or the other. If the secong you need wide aisles.
Are you going to have a selection criteria for new members? Will you have a way to ask/tell people like me to depart? Excessive vulgarity and profanity will offend many, either the offender goes, or many will go.
So as not to preach, I'll quit now.
Dave
gregc richhotrain Maybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club.
richhotrain Maybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club.
Rich
Alton Junction
members of the Pacific
richhotrainMaybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club.
in the same way that model railroading is not for everyone, participating in a model railroad clubs is not for everyone.
is it really necessary to provide a reason why someone enjoys doing what they do?
and just as each modeler has a different set of interests in building a layout, there are many different types of clubs based on the chemistry of its members.
DAVID FORTNEYToo many experts that thought their way was the only way.
Yes, this can be a problem at a club, and over the years we've lost several members because of this. Unfortunately many of them thought that they were the experts and left because they didn't get their way. They didn't seem to understand that we weren't Burger King.
It's not that I hate clubs but being involved in a couple of them some years ago was not fun. Too many rules, too many arguments on what should be done and how we did it. Too many experts that thought their way was the only way.
I just wanted to have fun and run trains and make the layout the best we could. Never happened so away I went vowing never to do it again.
I enjoy my club, but we're a very tight-knit group. These guys make up a fairly large part of my social circle. Have I learned a lot about modeling, both directly and indirectly? Sure! Are things always done the best way? Absolutely not. But for me, the social aspect is more important, and I wouldn't have our happy band of left-handed monkey wrenches any other way.
Good things about clubs:I have made some life-long friends in my club. There are 70 members in my club, and there have been many more that have come and gone in the past 23 years. These friends are worth a lot to me.
Because of these friends I've made, I've actually gotten a chance to do things I would never have thought I could do. I've operated an S-4, S-6, SW9, and a B23-7. I got a ride in a N-5 caboose. I have had cab rides in a GP38, GP28, FL9, B40-8W, B39-8, F40PH, and a cab control car. I got to do back shop tours at Southampton St. Shops in Boston (Amtrak), and inside the shops of the St. Lawrence & Atlantic RR in Maine.
Because of the club, a group of us took a sleeper to Chicago and railfanned at Rochelle and the IRM, took the Acela to NYC (3 times) and Washington, D.C., rode the Downeaster to Maine, the Vermonter to White River Jct., took the ride at the Wicasset, Waterville & Farmington, visited Steamtown three times, rode the East Broad Top and the Cass Scenic, stayed at the Bridgeview Inn, the Station Inn, and the Tunnel Inn.
Because of the club, I've got to know people in the manufacturing side of the hobby. I've helped get some products to market (Microscale NH steam decals, Athearn NH 50' TOFC, Athearn NH 40' box, BLI I-4 4-6-2, Rapido FL9, Rapido Osgood Bradley coaches, Athearn NH GP9's, Rapido NH 8600 coaches, Rapido RDC's, etc.). I've had dinner with reps from Athearn, Microscale, Rapido, & True Line Trains. I'm Facebook friends with some of them as well. Heck, my name was even in a full page ad in RMC for three months (more to my chagrin, really).
Getting back to the club itself, because I'm a member I learned a lot about model railroading: how to hand lay track, how to design an operation session, how to do scenery, how to wire a layout, how to custom paint equipment, etc.
Because of the club, I've had the chance to design a steel mill, a 60' leg of our layout (with a passenger terminal, engine/shop terminal, and freight terminal), and the 2nd half of our layout (roughly 50' x 50').
Where else can I run a 16 car passenger train on 40" curves on No. 8 switches? Where else can I be the pusher operator on a 110-car bathtub gon coal train? Where else can I be the chief dispatcher overseeing 20+ operators?A club can be a great experience with life-changing events, taking you places you'd never get to on your own. I'm glad I joined my club, the South Shore Model Railway Club in Hingham, MA:www.ssmrc.orgPaul A. Cutler III
Omaha Road ManSo what's the good news? Well, IRC section 501(c)(7) grants tax exempt status to: "Clubs organized for pleasure, recreation, and other nonprofitable purposes, substantially all of the activities of which are for such purposes..." Sounds a lot like a model railroad club to me.
This is exactly how our club is incorporated.
A lot has been written here about the social aspect of clubs and the difficulty in reconciling different members' interests and opinions. I can't really speak to any of that, but someone did bring up organization type. I am a practicing CPA, and I will say this right now: I would find it hard to believe that any model railroad club that operates in the traditional manner (building a layout for the members to operate and enjoy) would truly qualify as a 501(c)(3).
First, understand that the status of an organization as exempt is determined at the Federal level, not by the choice of entity that is registered with the state. Whether an organization is tax exempt for purposes of Federal Income Tax has very little to do with what entity form it is organized as at the state level; a 'not for profit corporation' organized at the state level is not tax exempt unless it meets the requirements of one of the sections of section 501(c).
Second, there are several types of tax exempt organizations under the Internal Revenue Code. Organizations that meet the requirements of 501(c)(3) are broadly called 'charities.' The statutory language of IRC 501(c)(3) reads:
"... organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h) ), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."
A 501(c)(3) must serve a public, rather than a private purpose. So unless your model railroad club is organized and operated EXCLUSIVELY for the benefit of the public and not the club's members, it doesn't truly qualify as a 501(c)(3). "But, we submitted an application with the IRS to be treated as a 501(c)(3) and they accepted it!" you say. Well, that may be, but what did you put on the application? Does it truly reflect how you are organized and how you operate? A word of caution, if the IRS choses to audit your club and determines that you don't meet the requirements of IRC section 501(c)(3), the tax status of your organization will potentially revert to the default Federal tax treatment; if you are incorporated with the state, even as a 'not for profit' corporation, the default Federal tax treatment would have you be a corporation taxed like any other, with a maximum tax rate of 35%.
So what's the good news? Well, IRC section 501(c)(7) grants tax exempt status to:
"Clubs organized for pleasure, recreation, and other nonprofitable purposes, substantially all of the activities of which are for such purposes..."
Sounds a lot like a model railroad club to me. Most country clubs are organized as 501(c)(7)'s. What is the difference between a 501(c)(3) and (c)(7)? Well, donations to a (c)(7) are not tax deductible (side note, the dues you pay are not tax deductible even if you are organized as a (c)(3)). Additionally, amounts received from non-club members will be subject to Federal Income Tax, and no more than 35% of the total proceeds of the club can come from outside members.
So that's that. If you want to stretch the truth on your application for exempt status and be a 501(c)(3) and try to 'fly under the radar' of the IRS, you can try. The IRS's resources are limited, so I'm sure there are lots of people that will come forward and say "We're a 501(c)(3) and have never had a problem." That may be true, but it doesn't mean it's actually correct. A 501(c)(7) will accomplish the tax exempt goal for a club with minimal downside.
Just my $0.02.
Curious.
Rich,No need to lose interest could turn out interesting.
Like I mention I help form a club once and never again..There's way to much foot work,very time consuming and yes,aggravating at times.
Now layout is built new members join on a regular bases and BOOM! issues start over model phosophys and that was never the intention of the club. The goal was a place for modelers together to have fun and run trains..
After the big blowup nay,explosion came the club reformed and is still going strong.Seven of us rebuilt the club with sticker guide lines and rules. Don't like the rules? Don't join or don't let the door smack you in the fanny as you depart.
I would be there today wasn't for my heart attack which left short winded with 5 flights of stairs to climb.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE richhotrain Maybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club. Rich Rich,What's so bad? A person not getting their way? A person that can't rip into the scenery because he wants to do something his way? I've just about seen every type including members thought they was a living legend and above all members-well,I suppose they was in their own minds because their "super modeling" was average at best. The cold fact is some folks just ain't a people person or may be to childish or maybe bullheaded to be in a club. How can anybody judge a club that has never been a member of one?
richhotrain Maybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club. Rich
Maybe someone needs to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club.
Rich,What's so bad? A person not getting their way? A person that can't rip into the scenery because he wants to do something his way?
I've just about seen every type including members thought they was a living legend and above all members-well,I suppose they was in their own minds because their "super modeling" was average at best.
The cold fact is some folks just ain't a people person or may be to childish or maybe bullheaded to be in a club.
How can anybody judge a club that has never been a member of one?
Larry, I am not "judging" model railroad clubs. I am merely making an observation about what I often hear, and that is that most modelers have no interest in joining a club.
So far, you have only indicated that some people who join clubs shouldn't have because they lack modeling skills and/or people skills.
I didn't start this thread, and I am now sorry that I bothered to offer a reply. My sole purpose in replying at all was to simply observe that those replying before me seemed somewhat negative on the whole idea or at least cautionary.
I have always been curious about the nature and composition of model railroading clubs, so I began to follow this thread with interest. I am quickly losing interest.
richhotrain I have never been a member of a train club and never will join one. It sure sounds like most forumites who are responding feel the same way as me.
And, in a subsequent reply, I did suggest that it would be informative if someone cared to post a convincing message about what is good about joining a model railroad club.
Model Railroad clubs are by nature social organizations, and with that come all the vagaries of people of all stripes. As some have alluded too, there are good and bad, and an important "trick" to a successful club is to get all these people together, and marshall them to the goal of building and operating a satisfying layout.
Whoever is spearheading a new club is going to have to be a people person as well as passionate about model trains. It means you're going to have to be good at gathering people, raising funds, conflict resolution, and being a policeman to weed out the bad characters who come along, who may disrupt or drive off the decent folks.
Modelrailroading is full of a diverse lot, but includes a lot of grumpy opinionated old men too, as you can see by some of the replies here. Perhaps it's better some not be members of a club because it's important to be able to play nice in the sand box. But a big challenge to any club leader is to recognize who may be trouble and devisive and tactfully ensure they find another venue for their hobby outlet, and get together people who can make compromises, get along, share the load and enjoy the hobby together.
To the OP. If you are a people person and are up to the challenge, and a lot of work, then maybe starting a model railroad club is for you. Others have alluded to other important considerations.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
richhotrainI have never been a member of a train club and never will join one. It sure sounds like most forumites who are responding feel the same way as me.
Come on Rich, on what do you base this assumption, three no club posts and only one with a reason.
Well, this thread pretty much seals the deal for me. I'll do my modeling, and run my small layout the way I want to, when I want to. Nothing against people that are happy being in a club, but I have way to many other interest, activities and commitments in my life. I don't need anything more that may complicate things.
When it gets to that point, the fun and enjoyment fades, no matter what type of club or organization you belong to, that started out with good intentions.
Mike.
My You Tube
richhotrainIt sure sounds like most forumites who are responding feel the same way as me. Rich
Rich,One thing I notice over the years in the various clubs I been a member is a new member rolls in and wants to do one of two things change the club policy about pooling models on operation nights or they're not a people person. At one club we had one to quit simply because none of his equipment would pass the basic car inspection of KD couplers and trip pins at the correct height and wheels in gauge. How childish is that? Several of us even offered to help him bring his stuff up to par.
Of course bad or worthless do nothing clubs leaves a bitter taste in a former members mouth and they wrongly judge all clubs by their bitter experience.
I have never been a member of a train club and never will join one.
It sure sounds like most forumites who are responding feel the same way as me.
Suffice it to say I help start a club once..Never again will I even consider helping.
As far as club's there are good and bad..Over the years I been a member of both types.
jjdamnitWhat kind of insurance is carried by the club?
jjdamnitIn this litigious atmosphere, if something does happen to a "member", it won't be the "member" who sues, it's typically the insurance company/lawyer that will pursue the action.
Proper liability insurance is an absolute must, and it won't be cheap. If you are not fully covered you leave all of the members of the club wide open to law suits. Let's say a 'member' is involved in a serious car accident where someone is injured on the way home from a club meeting. By association, all members can be sued for a share of the damages. Let's say you have a friendly back yard BBQ with your members and somebody has a few too many beers. If they smash somebody else up on the way home you all pay, big time.
Fortunately the NMRA offers club insurance. It should be one of the first items that the new club deals with.
How do I know this? My Royal Canadian Air Cadet buddies decided to form an alumni association a few years ago, partly for fun and partly to benefit the Squadron. We went along merrily for about three years hosting golf tournaments and having regular parties. Then one of our alumni who was in the insurance business casually asked how we were covering our insurance costs since there were no dues being collected. When he found out we were not insured he said in very clear terms that we had our collective heads in the sand, or possibly up some other place that we can't mention but we pass gas from every day. He explained that an average law suit could cost us about $300,000 each or more! The necessary insurance would have cost us about $3,000 a year total. There were only about 30 of use so we decided that we weren't willing to pay $100 per year each just to have a few beers together. That was the end of the alumni association.
Whether or not that amount is reasonable for the members of a model railroad club is up to them. Obviously it will not be the only cost involved in running the club. The point is - don't go without proper insurance!
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I am no fan of a club, either!
In my student days many, many moons ago, I was a member of a club. All the red tape necessary to run a club really took the fun out of model railroading. With some 300 paying members, there was a lot of money involved in running this club, meaning the club officers had no time to work on the layout or even run a train.
I left the club and became a member of a round robin group building a modular layout. The modules remain the property of each member and they are set up in the basement of one of the members house. No dues, hardly any rules, just fun!
OK, this works only if you know each other very well. In our group, we know each other now for 40+ years!
DAVID FORTNEYDo yourself a favor and stay away from any club. Most are a pita with too many know it alls.
Do yourself a favor and stay away from any club. Most are a pita with too many know it alls.