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How can they get something this wrong

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Posted by kasskaboose on Monday, March 14, 2016 8:33 AM

How about making your own pumps?  I can understand the fear factor in stratchbuilding--often costs more than a kit and there's quite a bit of research, it won't often look professional, etc.  Once you overcome these issues, the satisfaction of trying something new is awesome. 

 

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Posted by wjstix on Saturday, March 19, 2016 4:37 PM

It sounds like it's not so much the pumps with the kit are "wrong" as that they are based on a particular prototype pump that some gas stations used and some didn't. Might be say Sinclair bought this brand, and Phillips 66 bought a different brand, etc. so whether these pumps look 'right' might depend on which gas stations were in your area. Could be regional too, like the way Griswold flashing grade crossing signs were common here in Minnesota (they were made in Minneapolis) but would be almost unknown outside the midwest.

Stix
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Posted by jecorbett on Saturday, March 19, 2016 5:15 PM

wjstix

It sounds like it's not so much the pumps with the kit are "wrong" as that they are based on a particular prototype pump that some gas stations used and some didn't. Might be say Sinclair bought this brand, and Phillips 66 bought a different brand, etc. so whether these pumps look 'right' might depend on which gas stations were in your area. Could be regional too, like the way Griswold flashing grade crossing signs were common here in Minnesota (they were made in Minneapolis) but would be almost unknown outside the midwest.

 

It's been said that there is a prototype for everything and after starting this thread I am finding out that is apparently true about these gas pumps. While I've now seen photos of prototype pumps almost as big as these as well as the high island, it certainly seems those were the exceptions rather than the rule. After looking at dozens of old black and white photos from the 1950s and earlier, it would appear that the most common pumps were about 5 feet tall and islands typically about 6 inches or less. I don't recall seeing one which appeared to be as tall as these, 16 scale inches. In combination, the island and the pumps are almost 8 scale feet above the pavement and whether or not there was actually a prototype, they just look ridiculous. The kit  also included older 1930s era pumps which were a bit smaller but oddly shaped and certainly not typical for my time period of 1956.

I solved the problem in two ways, I built up the surrounding pavement with laminated layers of styrene totalling .060" thick. I used the island to trace a hole in the top layer which was only .020" thick and easily cut with a hobby knife. I left space underneath the hole so the island would drop down all the way to the plywood. I didn't bother to measure the scale height of the island above the pavement but it looks right to my eye. I was thinking about buying some J&L pumps which are really nice but then I remembered having left over pumps from the Walthers Cornerstone Gas Station and used those. They are slightly bigger than the J&L but still look right. Instead of a two pump island, the pumps were small enough to put three on the island, 2 regular and 1 premium. Since the kit only came with a sign for an Esso station, I painted the pumps in Esso colors. Deep red for regular and white with blue trim for the premium pump. I had found a couple of color photos of old Esso pumps to indicate this was appropriate. My LHS had J&L Esso pumps in stock which had this same color combination. I didn't need to buy them but it was nice to get a second source for the correct color. The only downside was the price sign was at 34.9 for premium and 28.9 for regular. I believe those prices would have been more appropriate for the 1960s but sometime you can just have too much information. It looks good as long as I don't overthink it.

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Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, March 20, 2016 1:41 AM

Found a graph of historic gas price.  http://energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-915-march-7-2016-average-historical-annual-gasoline-pump-price-1929-2015

 

Looks like prices at about 20 cents/gal until 1947 then rising about 25 cents by 1950 and gradually increasing to about 35 cents by 1972. 1960 is about 30 cents/gal.

While the prices look low to us 20 cents in 1935 is equilivent to about 2.65 in 2015 dollars, 25 cents in 1947 equilivent to $2.00, 35 cents in 1972 equilvent to $1.60.  Of cource they are lower than the 2013 high of over $3.00/gallon. In 2015 the price is about $2.50/gal. 

The prices are national averages for regular gasoline and include taxes. Prices id different locations in the country could be lower or higher.

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by jecorbett on Sunday, March 20, 2016 9:04 AM

DSchmitt

Found a graph of historic gas price.  http://energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-915-march-7-2016-average-historical-annual-gasoline-pump-price-1929-2015

 

Looks like prices at about 20 cents/gal until 1947 then rising about 25 cents by 1950 and gradually increasing to about 35 cents by 1972. 1960 is about 30 cents/gal.

While the prices look low to us 20 cents in 1935 is equilivent to about 2.65 in 2015 dollars, 25 cents in 1947 equilivent to $2.00, 35 cents in 1972 equilvent to $1.60.  Of cource they are lower than the 2013 high of over $3.00/gallon. In 2015 the price is about $2.50/gal. 

The prices are national averages for regular gasoline and include taxes. Prices id different locations in the country could be lower or higher.

 

 

Good find. It appears from this that my sign is in line with what gas cost in 1956. There are bookets title Remember When which are mini-yearbooks for every year going way back. They were being sold in a rack at the cash register of Bob Evans restaurants although I'll bet they are sold elsewhere as well. I got one for the year I was born (1951) and the year I model (1956). Lots of neat tidbits of information. Who the top government officials were, the Academy Award winners, various sports champions, and the prices of various staples including gasoline. I have to dig up my 1956 book but my memory is they listed gasoline a few cents cheaper than the chart you provided. My guess is your chart is probably better researched. Of course gasoline prices would fluctuate back then as they do now but probably not more than a few cents up or down. I built the City Classic Supermarket and it came with window signs advertising prices of food items. I used my 1956 booklet and PC to change the prices on those signs to be more in line with 1956.

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Posted by shawn91481 on Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:49 AM
It may just be me, but it seems like most manufacturers have only a passing desire to adhere to scale. Just look at the deferences in O scale at "1:48". It seems to range from 1:32 to 1:64 or smaller.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 20, 2016 4:59 PM

There are 2 good photos of a gravity pump and one with electric pumps in Life Along the Line by O Winston Link/Thomas Reevy.  The photos were shot in August 1956 in Vesuvuis, VA.   There are on pages 160 and 161.  The electric pumps are about 6ft tall (assumption based on the man standing next to the pump is slightly shorter than the pump). 

The third photo you posted as a reply to Mike gives a clue about how to compensate for the tall curb.  Not really sure why they went with 16". 

 

Just out of curiosity, where is your layout based?

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Posted by jecorbett on Sunday, March 20, 2016 9:46 PM

BMMECNYC

There are 2 good photos of a gravity pump and one with electric pumps in Life Along the Line by O Winston Link/Thomas Reevy.  The photos were shot in August 1956 in Vesuvuis, VA.   There are on pages 160 and 161.  The electric pumps are about 6ft tall (assumption based on the man standing next to the pump is slightly shorter than the pump). 

The third photo you posted as a reply to Mike gives a clue about how to compensate for the tall curb.  Not really sure why they went with 16". 

 

Just out of curiosity, where is your layout based?

 

I'm guessing your suggestion was to eliminate the island and mount the pumps directly to the pavement as shown in the photo you referenced. It was a little more involved than that. The island was a one piece casting that included the supporting pillars for the canopy. Cutting off the island would have made those pillars too short. The solution was to build up the surrounding pavement using laminated layers of styrene which effectively reduced the height of the island by about half. I then substituted extra pumps that came with the Walthers Cornerstone Gas Station I'd built a number of years ago. I'm a pack rat and don't throw out extra parts that come with kits and occasionally that pays off as it did in this case. I completed the gas station this evening and glued it in place on the layout. I'm really happy with the way it turned out.

My layout is a fictional line whose main trunk is from the New York City area to Buffalo with major branches to Utica, Syracuse and Rochester. There is a short line that connects with the main trunk and this gas station is located in the town where the short line terminates. The name of the town is Willoughby and it sits between the Catskills and Binghamton, NY.

If I ever get the problems worked out with my digital camera, I hope to post some pictures of it in WPF.

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