I found a little gem at the East Troy Railroad shops. According to Mr. Ryan Jonas, at the ETERR, this is a former Milwaukee Road caboose. They call it a Terminal Caboose.
It needs to be modeled! Another project. Started looking around for the proper trucks. Kadee has some that are close, only the Kadee's have 2 springs, and the prototype has 3. Tichy also has a close match. Still looking.
I have access to take measurements and more photos. This is a photo they have on file. Just what I need, more projects, now that spring is knocking, and outside chores are calling. Mike.
I have access to take measurements and more photos. This is a photo they have on file.
Just what I need, more projects, now that spring is knocking, and outside chores are calling.
Mike.
My You Tube
Mike,
That's qa fascinating find. I've always liked the looks of transfer cabooses, but never really needed one.Someday I might just build one to scratch that itch.
Yours looks like it *might* be built on the frame of an old tender. This was done with some because they were cheap, available, and heavy duty. Might be worth digging into that aspect of things. Just because of the way it looks like others that were along the frame is what's clueing me into that.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Yes, those transfer cabooses (cabeese?) were built on scrapped steam loco tender frames, using the original trucks, which are, technically, AAR (we called 'em Bettendorf, after the original designer) swing-motion tender and caboose trucks. The MILW railroaders jokingly called it "a privy on a flatcar"--or something similar (there might be kids reading this).
Swing-motion trucks usually had suspension links along the double truck bolster/spring plank to allow for sideways motion, to ease the ride. Swing-motion trucks, archbar, Andrews, and the many different post-Bettendorf designs, could usually be identified by the leaf springs, the same as used on passenger trucks, which were also swing-motion trucks--and rode a whole lot better than cabeese!
Interestingly, a lot of early swing-motion tender trucks had exposed wood beams and some sort of plate where the coil springs would normally be, no leaf springs showing, and either a rectangular or round hole in the center plate. The coil springs must've been inside, hidden from view. On the other hand, some roads used common coil-spring freight trucks... (I will now put away my reference books and get back to my nap.)
Deano
OT DeanYes, those transfer cabooses (cabeese?) were built on scrapped steam loco tender frames, using the original trucks, which are, technically, AAR (we called 'em Bettendorf, after the original designer) swing-motion tender and caboose trucks.
Deano,
Thanks! good to confirm that they had a solid foundation under them.
I always thought those were neat pieces of rolling stock and would like to have one but other projects keep pushing that idea to the back of the workbench. I think there was an article in a past MR issue about scratchbuilding a transfer caboose, and there is a video on YouTube showing how someone built theirs. Those articles might give you some ideas on how to do it.
http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5
SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io
Thanks guys, for the info on the scrapped tenders. Not being around steam as a kid, I never thought of that!
My search has taken a new direction.
Fox Valley Models made them in both N and HO. I have the N scale version and there is an HO version on eBay. Milwaukee Road paint, though.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Thanks Chuck, but the point is, to model the exact caboose that I show in the picture when I started this thread. It's right in my neighborhood.
I don't really NEED a transfer caboose, as it's all about the modeling.
Thanks !
mbinsewi Thanks Chuck, but the point is, to model the exact caboose that I show in the picture when I started this thread. It's right in my neighborhood. I don't really NEED a transfer caboose, as it's all about the modeling.
I completely understand, I just wasn't sure you knew about the Fox Valley model.
I know how it is...I like to model stuff just because it's fun.
I remember those Milwaukee Road transfer cabooses. Fox Valley had them in brass in N scale before they had them in plastic, and those are pretty much exact models of what Mike has seen and wants to model. Overland had an exact model in HO brass. Moloco has, or at least had, a plastic kit that was pretty close as well although not a Milwaukee Road prototype.
Mike: there is an entire chapter on Milwaukee Road terminal cabooses in Jeff Kehoe's softcover book "Milwaukee Road's Steel Cabooses" (a compansion volume to books on the rib-side cabooses and wood cabooses). Lots of good photos, information about tender sources, modeling suggestions, and a scale drawing of the very car at East Troy.
Dave Nelson
Thanks Dave. I just did a quick search for the book. The MRHA is out of stock, and did sell them for $23.00, and, there is a used edition on Amazon for $40.00. Luckily, I have access to the prototype, for taking measurements, and photos.
Those trucks were very heavy duty Andrews. Cal Scale makes (or made) something like that in brass. Failing that, you might use PRR Crown Cast trucks as supplied with the Bowser H21a hopper car. They would need leaf springs added to replace or hide the cast-in coil springs.
Tom
Hey, guys, I grew up in MILW territory; in fact, I was born in a house on Kopmier--Kopmeyer?--Drive, a mile or two beyond the beautiful depot at Pewaukee, WI, now gone, 50-100 yards from the double-tracked Milwaukee-Twin Cities main line. And later, my eldest brother worked in the Muskego Yard, at "Five Rings" switchman's shanty across fromn the yard office below the 27th Street viaduct, so it was his favorite road.
He was there when they first introduced those transfer cabeese, which is why I knew what they really called them. He wasn't interested enough to build a model of it--didn't want to waste a tender on it. However, this wasn't the only use the MILW had for retired tenders and he did use a cheap Varney plastic tender (from their Ten-wheeler and "Old Lady" Consol) to build a model of one of the other types of cars they built from tenders: SNOWPLOWS! It was another perfect repurposing for the rugged cars. It was a nice model, and if someone can find photos, maybe you could find an inexpensive plastic tender and maybe a snowplow to kitbash one for a post-steam layout.
BTW, I stand corrected: the transfer caboose does ride on Andrews trucks, not the common Bettendorf copies. For you new guys (and gals?), the Andrews trucks were an economical way to transition to stronger cast-steel sideframes. The more fragile archbars were dismantled for their journal boxes, bolsters, spring planks, and (possibly) springs, which were then added to the new cast sideframes. MOW equipment re-used all sorts of old equipment--and all sorts of obsolete trucks found their way under this class of car, since they weren't interchanged. I was showing some young friends, avid teenage modelers, a Soo Line work train parked next to the depot in Rhinelander, WI, and could show them three or four different kinds of freight trucks. They had a small tender as a water car, with Andrews trucks, several of the other cars had either archbar or AAR trucks--and one OB boxcar, refitted as a bunk car, had an archbar under one end and a more modern cast AAR truck under the other! Model railroading is fun!
I think I found a drawing of the MILW caboose I'm modeling.
It's a drawing "from the collection of Ken Secrest" for Terminal Caboose 01731-01740, dated May 2, 1967. I'm not sure if this is in the book that Dave Nelson mentioned in his post. Mine was numbered 1738, so I'm sure this is it. I'm not sure if I should post it, for copyright reasons, but I found it on a search for "Milwaukee Road Terminal Caboose" It has all the dimensions I need, until better weather arrives, and can have access to the prototype.
Anyway, notes on the drawing say "L 3 tender frame and trucks. Does L 3 refer to the type of loco it tended? or is that the type of tender.
The Milwaukee Road had a bunch of L class Mikes
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mikado/?page=cmstpp
My guess is it's the tender from one of them.
OK, thanks Mike. So it is the class of loco, and not a tender class. I know so very little about steam, even though I was born in 49, I was never around railroads then, never in a big city much, and when I did catch the first bug, I was about 7, and everthing by then was GP7's and 9's.
Those Milwaukee L-3 Mikados were USRA Heavy 2-8-2's, and I believe they were delivered with tenders that had a 17' 9" spacing between truck centers. As far as I know, these are the tenders they carried until the end, although I'm willing to be corrected by somebody more familiar with the Milwaukee Road. That should give you the spacing you need, in case you want to build a model.
Cobb web version of the Fox valley model:
T e d
tedtedderson Cobb web version of the Fox valley model: T e d
That's just about gotta be the world's shortest roofwalk...
The roofwalk was primarily for a man passing signals on the top.
OK ACY, thanks, the drawing I have for terminal caboose numbers 01731-01740, mine is numbered 1738, show a center to truck mearsurement is 14' 41/2".
And, yes, I am building a model of the terminal caboose I show in my first post.
Actually, this will be my first complete scratch build of a caboose, from top to bottom. I found some trucks that are "close", and I'm currently milling (with a Dremel and engraving bits) and filing, to match the prototype along with a caboose frame ( I have no tenders) that is "really" close, but, I still might scratch build the frame and deck, to match the prototype.
I'll take pics of my progress, and post, when ready.
Mike
I suppose those bolsters could have been moved closer together in the rebuild. I would defer to anybody who is more familiar with Milwaukee Road practice.
To save some time, FVM has the transfer caboose in red.
http://www.foxvalleymodels.com/2015NovTransfer.html
MR had an article by Alex Sansone on scratchbuilding one a year or three before the FVM ones came out, if you wanted some inspiration and guidance.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
I'd be interested in any info you get about the frame. I want to scratchbuild one of those myself, complete with scratchbuilding a correct tender frame.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Thanks, WSOR, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's not about buying a transfer caboose, as I really don't need one, I just want to build this car.
I'll know more about the frame detail after I have a chance to examine the car with tape measure and camera.