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Bachman EZ app Will it obsolete DCC?

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Bachman EZ app Will it obsolete DCC?
Posted by Productionmanager on Friday, February 26, 2016 9:49 AM

I just watched the online video review of the Bachman RS-3 that is equipped with what they refer to as Easy Ap to run their trains that are so equipped.

It is running off Bluetooth and not Wifi and from what I saw I'm wondering if it will obsolete DCC for those wanting simplier operation.

For starters you can get rid of power boosters and all the associated wiring of a layout for DCC. Of course you will still have have to consider your turnouts in your plan, but could ez app switches be that far behind?

The train was demonstrated with an Ipad and it was simply touch screen.

For those that delight in technology this is currently behind what a dcc controller can do, but for us Luddites it may be just the ticket.

It does seem to be sensistive to electrical drops due to dirty or inadequate feeders being run.

Whats the general consensus? Will DCC start to be obsoleted as this technology is developed and improved?

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:12 AM

No.

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:23 AM

No.

There are three other systems on the market for controlling model trains with digital control.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:24 AM

I really haven't looked into the Bachmann system. I've been using Digitrax for about twelve years now and theirs, like some others, too, can be upgraded as new technology allows.

My sister gave me her old Android Kindle Fire and it sat on a shelf for almost a year until I decided to try the Engine Driver app that's available for free.

So just last night I tried it out and in a few simple steps I had trains running through Digitrax > JMRI Decoder Pro and this Kindle Engine Driver app.

It was pretty amazing! And a neat feature was that all of the functions were easily viewable and all I had to do was tap the screen with the stylus to activate it.

It just adds another dimension to operations that I didn't have before and it is running on a system I first installed back in 2003. (plus I have another throttle now Yes )

I believe the DCC protocall is here to stay. It was designed to be versitale and upgradeable and, for me, it does everything I can imagine that I would want to do in the forseeable future and is still backward compatible for engines that I installed simple decoders in so many years ago.

Thanks, Ed

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:30 AM

Quoting from the Bachmann homepage:

"* requires 16 volt DC or DCC track power for operation"

Enough said!

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:31 AM

DCC like DC will never be fully replace when a all new method of train control and that's when not if since technology is ever changing.

 

Larry

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Posted by SouthPenn on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:33 AM

No.

Proprietary electronics is usually a dead end. Plus you would have to convert all your engines. 

I don't own an Apple anything. I don't own anything that is smart. I would have to buy some kind of smart thing too.

I'll keep my DCC.

South Penn
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Posted by G Paine on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:36 AM

EasyApp is another system that works only with the manufacturer's products, and therefore has limited use. You can not run an NCE or TCS WOW equipped locomotive with that system. Can you run an EasyApp locomotive on DCC? I doubt it.

That is why systems like CTC-16 and a few other ones no longer exhist. NMRA did a good job requiring cross platform compatibility for all compliant decoders; that is why it is going strong for over 20  years; and will continue to do so for many years to come.

My My 2 Cents

George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:36 AM

Sir Madog

Quoting from the Bachmann homepage:

"* requires 16 volt DC or DCC track power for operation"

Enough said!

 

Gee,that method can be used in DC?  At 16 volts wouldn't that smoke a DC motor unless there is a decoder to reduce that voltage? I know straight DCC powered track can smoke a nondecoder DC motor since DCC is a form of AC.

Larry

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:39 AM

BRAKIE
At 16 volts wouldn't that smoke a DC motor unless there is a decoder to reduce that voltage?

Unless its an MTH locomotive... oh yeah, THAT'S yet another proprietary system Bang Head


 

[edit]

Whoah! Hold the (i)phone!

I just read a paragraph in the review on Pg. 63 of the April, MR, and it says in part:

"The sound effects play through the device speaker" (NO speaker in the locomotive!) "The sounds are generic rather than protoype specific. This was disappointing, as I would have liked to hear the distinctive growl of the Alco 244 prime mover."

And for the best part...

It will play Jingle Bells and the headlight will flash in time with the music!!!

Where do I sign up Big Smile

 

I'll pass for now, thank you.

Ed

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Posted by jalajoie on Friday, February 26, 2016 10:56 AM

Sir Madog

Quoting from the Bachmann homepage:

"* requires 16 volt DC or DCC track power for operation"

Enough said!

 

It is also dead rail compatible, provision are on the chip to connect a batery.

 

Jack W.

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Posted by GP-9_Man11786 on Friday, February 26, 2016 11:01 AM

DCC will perist because it's open source eh as other have pointed out. Right now other manufacturers would have to license Bachmann's technology. That's the reason Blu Ray won out over HD DVD, USB won out over Fire Wire and VHS beat Betamax. However, I do believe DCC will continue to become more advanced and yet remain backward compatible with older decoders, much like USB 3 which can read USB 1 devices.

Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Friday, February 26, 2016 11:08 AM

Jim

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, February 26, 2016 11:17 AM

Bachman EZ app Will it obsolete DCC?

*sigh*

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Friday, February 26, 2016 11:23 AM

Nope. If DCS couldn't kill it, EZ App never will. 

And no, DCS won't kill it either...

Proprietary control systems do not go over well with the majority of modelers...

Ricky W.

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, February 26, 2016 11:31 AM

No consisting, so no way it's even close to DCC user needs.

And why, pray tell, is there this passion for replacing DCC? That's a mountain so tall to climb in terms of the installed user base that it's simply implausible. In fact, for any proprietary system to be "successful" in whatever niche it serves, it has to be compatible with DCC -- unless the "new" is intended to be a technological dead end. In which case, the goal was never to "replace DCC" to begin with. In time, there COULD be something that replaces DCC, but ONLY if it's backwards compatible with it.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, February 26, 2016 12:07 PM

The only way DCC will go away is under government control Geeked, and I’m not that impressed with DCC either.  
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
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Posted by rrebell on Friday, February 26, 2016 12:13 PM

The chip is not owned by Bachmann but Bluerail Trains. It is compatable with what you run now, and will soon be availible in chip form with dead rail compatability. You can get onboard sound for as little as $10 in larger scales (soon in smaller) and the chip (first one being 17mmx17mm) is becoming available soon, if not now. Android app on the way and as far as consisting, just an app away. Me, I am awaiting the dead rail with new batteries like the Alfa ( 40x lithium-iro capasity) and Prieto coming out later this year, I hope you didn't think Musk's battery factory was going to manufacture old time batteries. Many other batteries in the works, you may want to get rid of your oil stocks as one recharges on water, sci-fi meets reality.

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Posted by joe323 on Friday, February 26, 2016 12:26 PM

EZ App is not yet ready to replace DCC and will need to be much more advanced before it becomes serious competition

1. It will need to support on board sound and consisting 

2 It will need to be dead rail compatible.

3. It would need have locomotive specific sounds.

4. It needs an Android version.

I think Bachmann  is aiming this for now to the train set crowd. It has potential to be competition just not yet.

 

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, February 26, 2016 12:38 PM

 Other optiosn that effectively do the same as this Bachmann thing already offer more DCC liek features such as consisting. They just use a different wireless technology, not bluetooth.

 Bluetooth is by design limited in range. For a home user this may not be an issue. For a large club that operates purely walkaround, so you can be near your train, it may be ok. But if you need to be a significant distance from your train, now what?

 Like the other options for direct control (no signal over the track), this remains a one manufacturer proprietary system. Until there is some standard, either through a body like the NMRA, or else a defacto standard because 4 out of 5 manufacturers implement the same system, these systems will not overtake DCC.

 The arguments about makign it simpler - how? Because only 1 train is running? You only need extra boosters and related wiring in DCC if you have lots of trains runnign and need more power. This won;t change just because the control signal uses radio waves direct to the locos. They still draw power from the rails. That doesn;t change the need for additional power, or even feeders. Sorry, even DC locos runnign with just one pair of wires to the rails and unsoldered rail joints don;t work very well and slow down. Transmission line losses are transmission line losses regardless if the line is transmitting DCC, DC, or sine wave AC. Battery on board is the only thing that will reduce or eliminate the need for any track wiring. Current state of the art will easily fit inside HO or larger locos, but what sort of run time? 15-20 minutes before a recharge is about the best you can get. ANd what about when you want to add signals? You still need some sort of track detection circuit, and that needs power and something to draw it.

 WHat about powered turnouts? Remote control of them via radio is goign to be every bit as awkward and operating them from DCC. Switch away from loco control, select the ID (address) of the turnout, operate it, flip back to loco control. Doesn;t matter what brand of DCC, it's awkward at best with all of them. BT or direct radio is no different.

                        --Randy


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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, February 26, 2016 12:47 PM

Just as others have said to the title question - no.

DCC is here to stay - for those currently using it to be sure.

Will other systems develope their own following -likely yes. Various forms of direct radio, dead rail, advanced DC, DCS, and more will likely servive for the foreseeable future.

Remember, it is likely that only about 50% - 60% of HO modelers use DCC, and that is after 20 years. That only equals about 30% of all model train users.......the rest are using something else........

Generally, many of the people using DCC cannot understand why everybody does not use DCC - but everybody does not have the same operational needs, wants or goals. And larger scales often lend themselves to other systems for a number of reasons.

Based on my needs, wants, goals and skills, I have yet to see anything that would get me to install "brains" of any kind in my 130 locos.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by cuyama on Friday, February 26, 2016 1:01 PM

rrebell
The chip is not owned by Bachmann but Bluerail Trains. It is compatable with what you run now, and will soon be availible in chip form with dead rail compatability. You can get onboard sound for as little as $10 in larger scales (soon in smaller) and the chip (first one being 17mmx17mm) is becoming available soon, if not now. Android app on the way and as far as consisting, just an app away. Me, I am awaiting the dead rail with new batteries like the Alfa ( 40x lithium-iro capasity) and Prieto coming out later this year, I hope you didn't think Musk's battery factory was going to manufacture old time batteries. Many other batteries in the works, you may want to get rid of your oil stocks as one recharges on water, sci-fi meets reality.

That might be a record for the number of pipe dreams combined in one post. 

Bluerail has so many limitations compared to DCC (both feature-wise and technical [RF]), and comes at such a high cost per decoder, that it is clearly not a replacement for DCC -- today or (likely) tomorrow.

Dead rail will be more popular eventually, but it will be much-delayed if there is no standard soon. The size and capacity of batteries must have multiple years more development to be practical in HO and smaller scales.

[And some dead rail suppliers are being short-sighted (I think) in not taking advantage of DCC on the track as a handy way of recharging much smaller batteries constantly, leaving just frogs dead, for example. And thus also having compatibility with the installed base of DCC.]

In the meantime, DCC users have been enjoying independent control of multiple trains anywhere on their layout with consisting, prototype-specific sound, wireless, etc., etc. for many years. Using decoders from many different manufacturers; and pre-installed in many locos. Even on a cellphone or tablet throttle, if you wish (I don't).

So in answer to the Original Poster's question: No.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 26, 2016 1:10 PM

I don´t see any added value in Bachmann´s E-Z App Train Control that isn´t already available. It looks as if this is a rather futile attempt to segment a market in favor of Bachmann products - just like MTH tried it with their proprietary DCS system. The key benefit of DCC, aside from the operation features, is that it has been standardized right from the beginning.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, February 26, 2016 1:20 PM

Bluetooth has lots of pros and cons, luckily there are more pros.  It really depends on the manufactures design and implementation.  Bluetooth can have very good range as well as handle a lot of data.  The one big advantage of Bluetooth is easy implementation by the end user, no brains necessary just apply power and go.
 
Before I retired from communications I had police headsets equipped with Bluetooth that let a motorcycle cop operate the radio on his motorcycle for 300’ or a city block from his helmet and in the eight years since I retired I’m quite sure it has improved.  The best thing about it from the operations side was it was super simple to use.  Dozens of motorcycles could be on scene without any interference between the Bluetooth units.
 
The trick is in the engineering design from the manufacturer; anything is possible with today’s technology for the right $$$$.
 
I still don’t think anything will ding DCC for a long time, things will change and get better but DCC will survive.
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
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Posted by fieryturbo on Friday, February 26, 2016 1:22 PM

It will displace DCC in the "Expensive Christmas Ornament" market.  In fact, I think it already has.

Julian

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Posted by cuyama on Friday, February 26, 2016 1:34 PM

RR_Mel
Bluetooth can have very good range

The issue in model train applications is the changing orientation of the antenna in the decoder and the fact that humans in the aisles are excellent signal attenuators. 

Note also that there are different classes of Bluetooth, with very different ranges. What was used in the police application was likely Class 1, with high power transmitters and a nominal 100 meter range. That's not what is in the typical cellphone or tablet, which is more like 10 meters max.

Since Bluetooth is in the 2.4 GHz frequency range, the RF signal does not propagate through people (and other objects) as well as does the 900 MHz used in many DCC wireless throttles. This can become important in a confined space like a layout room.

Add to that the "pairing" challenges that can be trouble for Bluetooth devices today and it is not ideal for model railroading, in my humble opinion.

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Posted by CSX Robert on Friday, February 26, 2016 2:17 PM

If you can't get a throttle that has a knob or physical buttons for speed control and physical buttons for direction and functions, then I'm not interested.  Touchscreens are great for a lot of things, but one handed control of a locomotive without looking at the throttle is not one of them.

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Posted by CAZEPHYR on Friday, February 26, 2016 2:31 PM

This has been done by others using aps to control DCC

 

So many Aps and so little time.

CZ

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Posted by chutton01 on Friday, February 26, 2016 2:33 PM

CSX Robert
If you can't get a throttle that has a knob or physical buttons for speed control and physical buttons for direction and functions, then I'm not interested.  Touchscreens are great for a lot of things, but one handed control of a locomotive without looking at the throttle is not one of them.


They've probably been available for other purposes for awhile, but the first time I heard about knobs for tablets was in regards to usage with DJ apps:

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Posted by tstage on Friday, February 26, 2016 2:39 PM

No, it will not.

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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