Howard Zane (Note I was able to get un blocked access to the WSJ article from link on the Structures site and the Brass site) a very accomplished Model Railroader, promoter of the Hobby, and also has several Model raillroad related businesses. He is pessimistic about the future of the Hobby. As others in this thread has said the Hobby has changed. He has seen a decline of young people entering the Hobby and so believe the Hobby is dying.
I believe he is wrong to be pessimistic. People are living longer and have many other interests in their youth, but are discovering and entering the Hobby latter in life.
Book http://www.zanestrains.com/index.htm
"Howard shares humorous tales chronicling his life as a model railroader, hobby shop owner, a purveyor and expert appraiser of brass trains, and his 25 years as co-producer of "The Great Scale Model Train Show", the largest show of its kind in the country."
Structure models http://www.zanestructures.com/
Out of production brass models http://zaneshouseofbrass.com/
Baltimore Sun article http://www.baltimoresun.com/explore/howard/news/community/ph-ho-go-train-show-0202-20120130-story.html
There are several vidieos of his layout and an interview on Youtube
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Jim,Then we have Scale Trains and Rapido Trains that are basically new companies.
One thing I notice at train shows..Those younger modelers is buying those highly detailed cars and locomotives even if its one or two cars or one DCC/Sound locomotive.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
It used to be some rags like the WSJ had standards, but it looks like you can publish any drivel now and pass it off as jountalism - no matter the content.
blownout cylinder As for the article itself, it is poorly researched thus making it dubious at best.
As for the article itself, it is poorly researched thus making it dubious at best.
Thats the problem with the article. it gives a false and miopic view that can be rebutted and some of the skewed information can be explained. To me, there is "fact" that the products being offered speak to a hobby that has money being spent on it. ExactRail just started about 8 or so years ago and look at all the excellent product they have made and continue to make AND they started at the beginning of the great recession. Intermountain keeps cranking out excellent models and have added engines to their line up. Moloco has started producing top notch freight cars. Tangent has been really adding lots of stuff to there line - more than ever. Atlas has been picking back up after a few down years. Athearn Genesis, lots of nice engines and rolling stock. Wakey wakey!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Just a reminder...keep it civil here.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
I take great exception when people say that all kids do is play with their phones and video games. I spend hours every week at our local sports facility where there are 3 sheets of ice and full olympic diving and race pool facilities. It also has fully staffed medical facilities, doctors/ physio therapist etc. Once my kid is done with his own game/practice, he is volunteering with other groups in various sports for hours. We had a small group of refugees come into the arena and it was interesting to watch them step out on the ice and bend over and touch the ice surface. We pulled some skates and helmets and the kids lent them their hockey sticks. They have been back every Saturday since that day.
The kids at that sporting facility are in shape, well toned examples of what kids should be.
My daughter is going to sleep all day today probably, however Monday through Friday she was at school from 0730 to 1600. She also had her horse riding and fencing lessons and found time to practice her piano, clarinet and cello. This week I heard the radial arm saw going in the workshop. I went out to find her cutting up cedar planks in to 44 six inch pieces for her art teacher. She volunteered to do herself when the teacher asked if anyones Dad had a saw. She is 14 years old and beside's being a great painter of HO people, she is more than capable of using my shop tools safely.
So in the words of Col Sherman Potter "HORSE HOCKEY" if you think all kids just twiddle their thumbs on electronic gadgets. Maybe the ones that do, just spend to much time with other people that do, and don't know what life has to offer. Kind of like all the great off the radar hobbies that life has to offer.
End of rant.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
richhotrainCan't speak for Europe, Ulrich, but in the States, it is an old man's hobby.
Rich, same here, but it´s gradually changing. Younger folks are less and less into cars, using public transport to meet their mobility needs. At train shows - be it model or the real thing, you see an increasingly growing number of young folks attending. What´s missing is the industry grabbing hold of that opportunity by offering affordable quality stuff instead of cheapish toy trains or highly sophisticated but overpriced techie stuff! I don´t know many 10 year old owning a DCC + sound equipped $ 800 steamer! Mind you, the price level "over here" is even higher than at your end of the Big Pond!
richhotrainhow many people do we know who claim model railroading as a hobby, and how many of them are under age 55
Lots, here in Silicon Valley.
This recurrent "The sky is falling, it hit me on the head" thread reminds of the lyrics of the Warren Zevon song "Desperados Under the Eaves"
And if California slides into the oceanLike the mystics and statistics say it willI predict this motel will be standing until I pay my bill
Similarly, I confidently predict that the hobby will still exist after every poster on this thread has gone to the great roundhouse in the sky -- many decades from now.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
FYI: WSJ gives you a few freebie articles if you're not a subscriber. If you can't read it, it means you've read some WSJ articles since the last time you deleted your cookies. Its not foolproof, but it generally works.
On one hand, it feels like saying that is an end-around on their lockout, but on the other hand WSJ knows that system is in place or else they'd just lock everything out permanently.
If your browser has an incognito mode, that works too.
On a related note, train simulator software is more popular with young people than with older. A lot of them simply do not have the space or money for a model railroad.
Sir Madog richhotrain Guys, the hobby is dying, and it gains momentum in its downward spiral as each one of us passes on to that model railroad in the sky.
richhotrain Guys, the hobby is dying, and it gains momentum in its downward spiral as each one of us passes on to that model railroad in the sky.
Can't speak for Europe, Ulrich, but in the States, it is an old man's hobby. Aside from those who are members of train clubs, most of us ask simply need to ask, how many people do we know who claim model railroading as a hobby, and how many of them are under age 55? I have lots of relatives, lots of friends, and lots more acquaintances. Me and my one brother-in-law are the only ones who are into model railroading.
Rich
Alton Junction
Soo Line fan richhotrain Tried to view the article on my wife's computer, no luck. So, then I tried my "new" laptop, and that worked. Go figure. Rich, Try dumping your cookies on the PCs which do not work. Some of these greedy sites will set a cookie and after you visit a couple of times will block you. That may be why the new PC worked....................
richhotrain Tried to view the article on my wife's computer, no luck. So, then I tried my "new" laptop, and that worked. Go figure.
Rich,
Try dumping your cookies on the PCs which do not work. Some of these greedy sites will set a cookie and after you visit a couple of times will block you.
That may be why the new PC worked....................
Mark B Remove the phrase"model trains or train sets" and insert "newspapers and print media"
Remove the phrase"model trains or train sets" and insert "newspapers and print media"
TOUCHE!!!
floridaflyer Although I'm not a suscriber to the "sky is falling" regarding the future of the hobby, If the NMRA is to be believed and the average age of folks in the hobby has risen from 39 in the '70's to 64 today, that is not a positive trend.
Although I'm not a suscriber to the "sky is falling" regarding the future of the hobby, If the NMRA is to be believed and the average age of folks in the hobby has risen from 39 in the '70's to 64 today, that is not a positive trend.
The NMRA may be correct on those they asked but,how about the thousands they didn't ask? I see young folk at every train show I go to and we old folk must remember the ways of buying things is changing thanks cell phones and internet hobby shops.
Years ago the majority of us looked forward to Saturday's trip to the hobby shop and the comradeship. Today we have forums that replaced those gatherings and on line shops that replaced the LHS.
This sort of headline and article was also very common around 1960-62 when slot cars suddenly became "the" popular Christmas gift for boys. It was the slot car outfits themselves that repeated that mantra -- to their self-serving benefit, but it got the headlines. As Linn Westcott pointed out at the time, the real pernicious effect of this sort of article is when a model railroad manufacturer or hobby shop (new or existing) needs financing, goes to the banker, who has just finished reading that the hobby is dying etc etc in the newspaper he relies on to help make business decisions, or a hobby shop distributor who knows little about the hobbies themselves, just what sells, decides to cut back on trains because the newspaper or "somebody" says nobody is buying them. Westcott was deeply concerned and later admitted that he thought the hobby as he knew it and MR itself had about 15 more years to go.
The train shows I go to all have big crowds and lots of kids, including a fair sprinkling of teenagers. It is not all gray haired guys with beer bellies [as he looks into the mirror]. I'd also say that the railfan (non-model railroad) events I attend seem popular and have a good mix of ages. But the statistics on average age of modeler are real and sobering, although one might wonder if they are gleaned from things like magazine subscriptions and organizational memberships which are not compatible with how many people now live their lives it seems.
It may well be that there are more barriers to easy entry into the hobby today. But that may be just yet another assumption based on the easy methods of entry that I remember and used (that is, fairly inexpensive starter Lionel and HO sets, plenty of hobby shops, lots of news-stands and Model Railroader and RMC at every news-stand) being sharply reduced.
Maybe I am an optimist, but if the hobby is dying it is dying in a darn peculiar and energetic way. None of my parents, grandparents, or cats died like this.
Dave Nelson
No problems seeing the article on my iPad.
The demise of the hobby has been going on since the 60's. Here it is 2016 and the hobby is better then ever. Advances in the hobby by manufacturers is outstanding, like better detail, sound, smoke, control, you name it.
We are in a golden era of model trains IMO. I'm having more fun now with the new technology then ever before before.
Let the doom Sayers have their say but for me I'm still going to have fun. Think I'll go play with my train set now!
richhotrainTried to view the article on my wife's computer, no luck. So, then I tried my "new" laptop, and that worked. Go figure.
Jim
So um... all the kids I saw at the New Eagle train show in January with tons of model train stuff in their hands are a sign of a dying hobby? What about all the youtube and facebook model railroaders my age (24) and younger? It's not dying, the type of modeling and the expectations are changing is all.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Ah BS........it's just the same old "doom and gloomers" still trying to put the psycological beatdown on people. If it bleeds, it reads.......
They should have done some research and talked to the 10,000 people at the train show in West Springfield a couple of weeks ago.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I don't think the hobby is dying , I think it just tends to get weeded out . I went to my first big train show at toronto convention centre back in 2002 and joined this forum straight away , wore my hand out mousing around looking for the perfect trackplan , got lots of great advice from guys here and oh I don't know it must be 4-5 layouts later I'm still at it. We have a hobby shop here that carries very little in train stuff and even with the WS line of scenic stuff he tends not to reorder so its not easy and I've came to the realization that I have all kinds of supplies already and much that can be had that the elder modelers use to use and probably still do. This hobby isn't for everyone.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
No problem for me reading the article or watching the video.
I hear the same thing about other hobbies that I pursue. I also restore classic Pontiac musclecars. Go to a classic car show and you will find most owners are in their late 50's and up, and they are saying the same thing. "Nobody works on their own cars anymore and develops the skills needed, etc."
No doubt part of it is the expense- hobbies are expensive and financing a real model railroad with the space it requires isn't in the cards for most younger folks. Same for classic cars.
And part of it is just the changing times. Young people don't relate the world the same way we do, and don't have the same feeling of nostalgia for days gone by.
But I like to think that there will always be "builders" who will want to create and operate something. It may take on a different form, but that's OK.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
Well, we are all acquainted with MSM "journalism" as it is practiced these days- poorly researched, poorly sourced and all too often biased from the get go.
An enterprising reporter would do well to consider the incredible increase in product variety, sophistication, availability and the technological changes that keep model railroading fresh and innovative. Perhaps it would be better to consider that model railroading has evolved from merely a duplicate toy status to an authentic miniature art form, which incorporates a broad spectrum of skills and artistic focus, much as has become the case with the intersection between digital photography and sophisticated, yet easily learned image editing software, where the hobby is about more than just "taking pictures".
In the real world, urban light rail and technology driven improvements to traditional freight rail provide a whole new frontier for modeling, and as for this being a dying hobby, I have observed an increasing number of 20 and 30 something adults at the flea markets and swap meets I attend regularly, along with their kids!
Cedarwoodron
Catt The hobby is dying blah blah blah.That must be the reason that my home town has four thriving hobbyshops and four model railroad clubs. I was told the same load of BS back in 1978 when I got back in the hobby.Well folks my free lanced model railroad is still here 38 years after I started it (officially named Grande Valley Railway in 1980) and if I have any say in the matter will still be here in another 10 years.
The hobby is dying blah blah blah.That must be the reason that my home town has four thriving hobbyshops and four model railroad clubs.
I was told the same load of BS back in 1978 when I got back in the hobby.Well folks my free lanced model railroad is still here 38 years after I started it (officially named Grande Valley Railway in 1980) and if I have any say in the matter will still be here in another 10 years.
On the northside of Columbus, OH there are three hobby shops within walking distance of one another, one of which deals exclusively in trains. I've heard there is another nearby that specializes in Lionel but I'm not sure exactly where it is.
richhotrainGuys, the hobby is dying, and it gains momentum in its downward spiral as each one of us passes on to that model railroad in the sky.
I strongly disagree to your opinion. It´s not dying, it´s changing. What´s missing is good quality entry level stuff at a moderate price level to be able to attract the younger generation once more. I don´t mean the rubbish Marklin and others are marketing for kids and I don´t mean the cheapish trainset stuff sold by the other big brands. Trains will play much more of a role in our society in the future and so will model trains!
How many threads proclaiming the "death of our hobby" has there been now?
As long as no one starts flaming each other I'll let this stand....for now.
I suspect the end of the line for me will come before the end of the line for model railroading so I'm not going to spend a lot of time worrying about it.
Although I'm not about to subcribe or sign in to read the article on that link I did read it somewhere else and viewed the layout through trackside scenery youtube link, absolutely incredible layout.
richhotrain Bummer. You need to be a subscriber to read the article. Rich
Bummer. You need to be a subscriber to read the article.
Interesting article and a great video. Howard Zane's basement empire puts mine to shame.
I always feel that we, as model railroaders, are much too defensive about the media's critique of our hobby. They are correct, but they are just not sure why.
Guys, the hobby is dying, and it gains momentum in its downward spiral as each one of us passes on to that model railroad in the sky.
I have no problem with the younger generations caught up in other pursuits. Today's hobbies, video games and other electronic pursuits are as much fun for our grandchildren as model railroad layouts are to us.
The current generation did not grow up when railroads dominated our landscape. There are no steam engines today. There are no colorful passenger trains. Rail yards are off limits for security reasons. So, where is the appeal to an 8 year old, an 18 year old, even a 28 year old?
My only gripe is when someone makes fun of the hobby or questions our sanity in pursuing the hobby. To each, his own. Just let us be.