I am planning a winery on the new branchline I am adding to my railroad. While researching what kind of commodities would be received and shipped I remembered one of the first model railroading books I bought back in the late 1970s was Kalmbach's Railroads You Can Model and that one of those railroads was a shortline in New York's wine country. I didn't remember the name of the railroad but it turned out it was the Bath and Hammondsport, a nine mile short line that served wineries between its namesake cities. It turned out it contained just the kind of information I needed not only regarding the commodities but the types of cars to use as well.
What gave me a chuckle was that during prohibition people of course didn't stop drinking. The wineries stayed in business by selling grape juice knowing full well that most of their customers would use it to make wine. They would include a "warning" with their product that began "DO NOT..." and then followed with detailed instructions on how to convert the grape juice into wine. The closing line informed the customers that if they did that, the grape juice would turn into wine and that would be illegal.
google Hammondsport and this photo is on the first page.
Hammondsport is home to the Glenn Curtis Museum. He was an authentic aviation pioneer as well as motorcycle and boat racer. Edison got him involved in airplanes motors. Put the Finger Lakes on your bucket list, a huge number of wineries and eat at one of the best restaurants in New England, Suzannes.www.suzannefrc.com No affiliation at all, but one of my best vacations ever.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
"Instead of giving money to found colleges to promote learning, why don't they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as good as the Prohibition one did, why, in five years we would have the smartest race of people on earth." -- Will Rogers.
Dave Nelson
Wait a minute... New York has Wine Country? I thought only cirtain climates can grow grapes? Like Northern California, France, etc.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Yeah, I got a chuckle out of that. Nice picture too.
Motley Wait a minute... New York has Wine Country? I thought only cirtain climates can grow grapes? Like Northern California, France, etc.
In vino veritas!
Yes, Upstate NY has an extensive Wine Country!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_wine
The conditions here are great for the production of vino.
Here is alink to a map showing where many are:
http://www.catchwine.com/wineries/new_york/
418 wineries are listed here:
http://www.wineweb.com/scripts/searchWineMap.cfm/USA/NY/
http://www.iloveny.com/things-to-do/food/wineries/#.Vp9e97n6v1E
You will see there is/they are more just a passing fancy!
Ray {Howmus} here, one of our estemed guests lives nearby to several, and lives closer than I. There are even wineries down around the southern tier of NY's Upstate, where I live. Ithaca has some wineries, often featured on our local new casts for annual wine production stats.
Google "Finger Lakes Winery Tours"and you will get some of these sites:
http://www.fingerlakeswinerytours.com/
http://www.fingerlakeswinetours.com/
http://www.fingerlakeswinecountry.com/
http://www.fingerlakes.com/wine/finger-lakes-wine-tours
trolley tours:
http://winetourtrolley.com/
http://experiencefingerlakes.com/wine-tours/
http://www.fingerlakes.org/things-to-do/wineries-more
Some of the local wineries have won Major awards for their products, beating out California's Napa valley and even beating out some of France's finest wineries!
Google "New York's wineries" to get a listing of just some of the winery country's offerings.
http://www.newyorkwines.org/
There are all kinds of bus tours,and Bath/Hammondsport mentioned are known for some wineries.
http://www.fingerlakes.com/keuka/keuka-lake-wineries
http://www.corningfingerlakes.com/trip-ideas/keuka-wine-trail
http://www.vinehurstinn.com/wine_trails.php
So, check OUT NY's wine country, It might just surprise you!
There IS, in the Hammondsport area, this:
http://www.railcitymuseum.com/RAIL_CITY_v_03_26_2015/index.html
Ther is also the Arcade and Attica Railroad, a small RR running a steam train during the summer season nearby to wine country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_and_Attica_Railroad
http://www.steamphotos.com/Railroad-Photos/Arcade-Attica-Railroad-Photos/
So the area has a LOT to offer, wine and trains!!! WhooHOO!
Back to the Chuckle: It was done on purpose! They were spelling out what was illegal during prohibition, so that one wouldn't do it,ideally,but knowing human nature, some would try it. It is actually easier to makevino than to make grape juice that won't "go over" to some form of wine, just like apple cider left alone will harden.
Many wineries could stay in business for selling "altar wine" for "religious purposes". I think there was also a small amount of wine allowed to be produced for "medicinal use",though that was a broad spectrum allowance and interpretation!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
http://www.wineriesbystate.com/
Rich
Alton Junction
Medicinal use hmm they must be following the ancient Roman use of washing wounds in it.
Wine does have a small disinfecant value
"I wonder how many where claiming to be washing internal wounds"
Sorry but I have visions of the Booze police raiding hospitals so they can get some medicine.
Who said officialdom was not mad.
regards John
One of my favorite IPD boxcar road name is B&H.
Here's why.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/751-50001537
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I grew up in northern California so yeah, I'm aware of Napa Valley and Sonoma County wines, but later on I lived in upstate NY for 15 years and the Finger Lake region is famous also for growing grapes. In the fall you can drive around those area's and buy grape pies from local farmers for example, and of course there is a wine industry there. Lake Niagara and Widmer were some of the brands I remember. The white wine was very grapey or fruity compared to the California counterparts.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Here is what winepros.org has to say about grapevines.
The grapevine prefers the temperate climate in which it evolved, with warm, dry summers and mild winters. Winters of sustained cold kill grapevines. High humidity promotes vine disease. Tropical temperatures disrupt the normal vine cycle of winter dormancy.
Grapevines are fairly adaptable plants, growing in a wide variety of soil types, from light sand to packed clay, and flourishing around the globe in the temperate bands between 20° and 50° Latitude, north or south of the Equator. They are successfully grown in Europe, the Balkans, Asia, Mediterranean and South Africa, South Australia and New Zealand, most of North America and a good portion of South America.
There are multiple and interlacing factors to consider when starting a vineyard, in order to ultimately Steep hillside vineyard scene.achieve highest fruit quality. In selecting a site, the average length of the ripening season, the normal annual weather conditions, the soil type and chemistry, fertility and drainage, the topography, sun exposure, and likely pest problems should all be taken into account well before the first vine is planted.
Various soil compositions have different benefits, dependent in part upon locale, such as fertility, acidity or alkalinity, heat retention and reflection, etc. Clay, gravel, limestone, rock, sand, slate and other types of soil can all support grapevines, but the one factor that all great vineyards share, in spite of their geological makeup, is good drainage. It's important for the vines to get water, but vines will ripen fruit better if the water table is just within reach of the roots.
Is there a big draw for modeling wineries? Now that's one industry I never thought having rail service. It would be interesting for Kalmbach to publish a book (hint, hint) on unusual rail-serviced industries.
kasskaboose Is there a big draw for modeling wineries? Now that's one industry I never thought having rail service. It would be interesting for Kalmbach to publish a book (hint, hint) on unusual rail-serviced industries.
I have heard Gallo windery used rail cars such as the type seen in beer service like those offered by BLMA (ATSF double door cars) or possibly the ER and Eel River type.
Kasskaboose, If I may address that question.
Modeling wineries requires thinking outside of the accepted model industries(lumber companies,fuel oil dealers,junk yards etc) that the majority uses because that's how we was lead by books,layout photos and manufacturers and I dare sayby so called layout "experts".
Thinking outside of the box also requires basic research on rail served industries. Even today there are thousands of industries that require boxcars for their shipping needs.
Some examples of rail served industries would include a cell phone manufacturer-Plastic pellets and plasticizer for cases.
Telephone pole treatment plant in raw poles and asphalt out treated poles and empty tank cars.
Frozen food distributor.
Beverage and tobacco distributor.
Reclaim plants-in scrap rubber or plastics out rubber or plastic pellets.
Tire distributor. In boxcars with different types of tires including farm implement tires.
Garden hose manufacturer.
The list is endless.
BTW.Some of the best tasting wine I ever drank was made on Kelly Island. For those that may not know Kelly Island is located on Lake Erie's Western basin just East of the Bass Islands.
galaxy Motley Wait a minute... New York has Wine Country? I thought only cirtain climates can grow grapes? Like Northern California, France, etc. In vino veritas! Yes, Upstate NY has an extensive Wine Country! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_wine The conditions here are great for the production of vino. Here is alink to a map showing where many are: http://www.catchwine.com/wineries/new_york/ 418 wineries are listed here: http://www.wineweb.com/scripts/searchWineMap.cfm/USA/NY/ http://www.iloveny.com/things-to-do/food/wineries/#.Vp9e97n6v1E You will see there is/they are more just a passing fancy! Ray {Howmus} here, one of our estemed guests lives nearby to several, and lives closer than I. There are even wineries down around the southern tier of NY's Upstate, where I live. Ithaca has some wineries, often featured on our local new casts for annual wine production stats. Google "Finger Lakes Winery Tours"and you will get some of these sites: http://www.fingerlakeswinerytours.com/ http://www.fingerlakeswinetours.com/ http://www.fingerlakeswinecountry.com/ http://www.fingerlakes.com/wine/finger-lakes-wine-tours trolley tours: http://winetourtrolley.com/ http://experiencefingerlakes.com/wine-tours/ http://www.fingerlakes.org/things-to-do/wineries-more Some of the local wineries have won Major awards for their products, beating out California's Napa valley and even beating out some of France's finest wineries! Google "New York's wineries" to get a listing of just some of the winery country's offerings. http://www.newyorkwines.org/ There are all kinds of bus tours,and Bath/Hammondsport mentioned are known for some wineries. http://www.fingerlakes.com/keuka/keuka-lake-wineries http://www.corningfingerlakes.com/trip-ideas/keuka-wine-trail http://www.vinehurstinn.com/wine_trails.php So, check OUT NY's wine country, It might just surprise you! There IS, in the Hammondsport area, this: http://www.railcitymuseum.com/RAIL_CITY_v_03_26_2015/index.html Ther is also the Arcade and Attica Railroad, a small RR running a steam train during the summer season nearby to wine country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_and_Attica_Railroad http://www.steamphotos.com/Railroad-Photos/Arcade-Attica-Railroad-Photos/ So the area has a LOT to offer, wine and trains!!! WhooHOO! Back to the Chuckle: It was done on purpose! They were spelling out what was illegal during prohibition, so that one wouldn't do it,ideally,but knowing human nature, some would try it. It is actually easier to makevino than to make grape juice that won't "go over" to some form of wine, just like apple cider left alone will harden. Many wineries could stay in business for selling "altar wine" for "religious purposes". I think there was also a small amount of wine allowed to be produced for "medicinal use",though that was a broad spectrum allowance and interpretation!
Not just in the Finger Lakes. I grew up on Long Island and the North Fork is considered wine country as well.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
The winerey where at we get our wine did not close down at all during prohibition.
Their main product was Altar Wine, branching out into other products came (or so they say) after phroibition was lifted.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
When we remember the Bath & Hammondsport ("The Champagne Route"), we should remember that the road's wonderful 2-6-0, number 11, still exists and has been restored to operation on the Everett Railroad, operating tourist trains out of Hollidaysbrg, PA.
Tom
BRAKIE BTW.Some of the best tasting wine I ever drank was made on Kelly Island. For those that may not know Kelly Island is located on Lake Erie's Western basin just East of the Bass Islands.
Never got to Kelly's Island but did get to South Bass Island. Never thought to sample the wine. Drank beer instead. It was part of one of the N&S excursion trip from the Ohio State Fairgrounds to Sandusky. I believe that one was behind the articulated, the one I can never remember the road number of. People had a choice of spending a day at Cedar Point or taking the ferry to South Bass Island.
I did 3 excursion runs behind the articulated and one behind 611.
BigDaddygoogle Hammondsport and this photo is on the first page.
Very interesting... That photo is of Richard Senges, MMR "Bath and Hammondsport" and "Oil Creek Railroads". Dick does some of the finest modeling anywhere. Member of my Division of the NMRA and our newsletter editor. The Division just held our Fall Meet at the Curtice Museum in Hammondsport. (My late FIL has a couple exhibits in the Museum, BTW)
Yes Finger Lakes Wine is some of the finest in the world. Wineries from here are consistantly earning Double Gold Awards and Best in Show in International Competition. Our Rieslings, Chardonnays, Pinot Noir, and many others are wonderful. Lake Niagara is a specific name from a winery in Naples, NY. There are many other excellent Niagaras which are made from native local grapes. Niagara and Concord grapes have been here for centuries. The others are from vines imported (or snuck in) from around the world... We also have nearby a great Meadery (Honey wine) that also caries local hard cider. Recently we have opening up some top shelf Craft Breweries, several right here in Geneva...
Yes the Finger Lakes Region of NY State is a great vacation destination for many reasons. Lots of Camp Grounds, State Parks (Watkins Glen for one), some great Museums, great food, trails, Baseball Hall of Fame, Finger Lakes Race Track, and a whole lot more!
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
howmus Yes the Finger Lakes Region of NY State is a great vacation destination for many reasons. Lots of Camp Grounds, State Parks (Watkins Glen for one), some great Museums, great food, trails, Baseball Hall of Fame, Finger Lakes Race Track, and a whole lot more! 73
About 20 years ago as part of my research for my fictional New York, Binghamton, and Western RR, I visited that part of the country. I had to see the Baseball Hall of Fame and on the way into town I discovered there was a Corvette Museum as well although I'm not sure if that is still there. Unfortunately I didn't have time to stay in the Finger Lakes region. I did pass by the northern tips on my way to Niagra Falls, another must see. I thought it was beautiful country and would like to visit it again. Is there any particular place in that region that you would recommend? Also, what do you think is the best time of year to visit?
riogrande5761 kasskaboose Is there a big draw for modeling wineries? Now that's one industry I never thought having rail service. It would be interesting for Kalmbach to publish a book (hint, hint) on unusual rail-serviced industries. I have heard Gallo windery used rail cars such as the type seen in beer service like those offered by BLMA (ATSF double door cars) or possibly the ER and Eel River type.
I found a couple of discussions of bulk shipping of wine, as in tank car volumes:
http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2012/02/wine-as-industrial-commodity.html
http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2014/08/wine-tank-cars.html
So a winery could be a rail served industry
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I have a winery in the family and my cousin gives me almost no discount. Be that as it may, it is a self sufficient winery, they grow, harvest, press and bottle the grapes. However some I saw in the Finger Lakes buy their grapes from other farmers, use mobile crushers and fermenters. Basically they are just a wine store.
In the world of my wine fantasies, your winery could receive all it's grapes by boxcar or reefer or it could ship liquid wine to other wineries for fermentation and bottling. Is it prototypical? If you are asking that question you need to have another glass of wine.
BigDaddyHowever some I saw in the Finger Lakes buy their grapes from other farmers, use mobile crushers and fermenters. Basically they are just a wine store.
LOL! Those aren't wineries, they are major corporations... There are ones like that at each end of Canandaigua Lake... No Names please.... One is now one of the largest wholesaler, conglomerate, controller of cheap crap wines in the world... My Father in Law was a plumber. After he retired that "winery" had him come over to fix some plumbing... They paid him with a couple cases of their "fine" wine. He gave one of the cases of it to us. He said he didn't like it. So we took it home and opened one bottle... My wife and I each took a sip, spit it back into the glass and then poured the rest of the rotgut down the drain! There is another winery there that used to be one of the best. It got bought up by a major corporation specializing in rotgut.... They are at the other end of the lake (One of their products has already been mentioned in this thread...). Don't drink anything from them anymore. Near Hammondsport there is a winery which brings in most of their grape juice from California.... They are owned by a major Soft Drink Corporation.... I don't drink anything with that name on it either. Basically if it is listed on the New York Stock Exchange, it isn't really one of those we like to call a Finger Lakes Winery. The ones I promote are mostly "Estate Wineries". We have many of them around the region, and they are the ones that are "world Class"....
jecorbettIs there any particular place in that region that you would recommend? Also, what do you think is the best time of year to visit?
Easy question first.... Best time to visit I would recommend late Spring to Mid Fall. We get some wonderful leaf colors here in Mid to late fall.
The place would very much depend what kind of activities you like to do. If you like camping there is everything from RV parks to primitive camping. Watkins Glen is a great place to camp, hike the trails, and use as a base for seeing many of the attractions here. If you like to fish, Seneca Lake is the lake Trout Capitol of the world! Here in Geneva we have the National Trout Derby every Memorial Day Weekend and have people come from all over to fish the lake. Hammondsport is a wonderfully quaint little village at the South end of Keuka Lake with the Curtise Museum and lots of places catering to tourism. Want to play the horses... Finger Lakes Race Track is in Farmington, NY. Lots of Museums like the Museum of the Earth just outside of Ithaca. Lots of Railfaning around the area. Finger Lakes Railway is based in Geneva. You just missed NPR Berkshire 765 crossing the old bridge in Letchworth State Park a few months ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqB7eFydBRI I work (volunteer) at the Rochester and Genesee Valley Railroad Museum in Rush, NY just South of Rochester. We are open one to the public weekend a month during the Summer months. And I would be glad to have you visit the Seneca Lake, Ontario, & Western model Railroad here at my house....
Do a search on the Finger Lakes and you will get lots of good ideas...
BigDaddy However some I saw in the Finger Lakes buy their grapes from other farmers
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
but here in New Zealand there are a lot of small grape growers who either do not have enough grapes to lay down their own vintage or their grapes are in demand from reputable wineries for their own particular style of wine.
Oh yes, the same is true in the Finger Lakes. There are even some small labels that have other wineries produce their wines on contract. They are usually very good as well...
The "Glen"in Watkins Glen is a 1.5 mile park of waterfalls. Easy walking. In addition to the Nascar race, there is a vintage car race at Watkins. I'll let you do the googling for that. We stayed at a bed and breakfast called Magnolia Place, on Seneca Lake. Price but the specialize in a massive gourmet breakfast.
Wait a minute... New York has Wine Country? I thought only cirtain climates can grow grapes? Like Northern California, France, etc
Long Island,at the east end also has a number of wineries.
I am surrounded by lots of wineries and fields of grapes where I live, just North of the 49th. It is a real treat being able to bypass the booze in the stores and just pull into a winery and pick up a case or two.
I also make my own wine from local grape juice when the wineries offer it up. The reason being perservatives in commercial wine give my perfect wife a headache, and my home made hooch doesn't.
Most weekends after getting home from the kids Hockey, friends and I will be lounging in the Trainroom enjoying a glass or two while watching the trains make their way around the layout before the Hockey on TV starts.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
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