If you were going to dabble in o scale trains what brand would you choose?

[emdmike]

I am also preparing to build a small O scale 2 rail layout in an even smaller room of 9' by 8'.  Yes that rules out large steam or 6 axle diesels, but those are beyond my meager finianical means.  What I am building is a small branch line to a coal tipple on the C&O/Chessie system.  Motive power will be 2 old Atlas F9's, a US Hobbies/KMT GP35(my one nice engine) and possibly a General Models diecast NW2.  I am using old Atlas(Austrian produced) track of both flex and "snap track" style.  S scale is just as expensive as restarting in any other scale.  I already have some of these O scale trains on hand and others are in layaway at a LHS. The brass GP35 will actualy belong to my wife to help keep me on track and not resell it later.  Being autistic, I can get burnt out and constantly swap prototypes and even scales.  Being on a limited income for modeling, this really becomes a problem.  By going to O scale, I need less of the expensive items and can maximize my modeling skills.  I will need less track, only a couple of engines and a small selection of freight cars, mostly hoppers and a couple of cabooses. So many of todays modelers are of the more or bigger is better.  Huge train lenghts, massive layouts.  Dont have room for a massive O scale empire, then you should go to xyz scale so you can.  I call BS on all of that.  Only scale I have put a temp hold on is my G scale due to high prices and lack of anything I need new on the market.   But the siren song of 2 rail O has always called my name.  It can be done in a small room, and it can be done on a tight budget.  It all depends on what you wish to achieve.  All of my motive power is old, but nothing wrong with that.  It is my opinion with tightening budgets and a general shrinking of the whole hobby, that small but detailed layouts in all scales will become the new push in the near future.  Mikie

[oldline1]

I know you asked about O scale trains and I don't mean to screw with the topic BUT.....you might want to consider S scale models. They are approximately 1/2 the size difference between O and HO. There are some great items available in steam/diesel era as well as modern era. I'm talking SCALE and not American Flyer or Flyonel (modern AF made by Lionel). American Models and MTH makes some great stuff. MTH's line is the former S Helper Service (SHS) recently purchased. Realistic curves are more attainable in a 14x14 room over O scale.

THIS IS JUST SOMETHING FOR CONSIDERATION!!! Please don't start shooting!!!

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

[Jack Derby]

Honestly, the proto48 does look interesting, but for me it is a matter of space as well as My appreciation of our hobbies origins.  I would rather not let them be forgotten, and OO seems to fir both of those billings.

[ACY Tom]

To me, "dabbling" means just a small sampling, rather than a major commitment to a major layout or a large collection.  Others would certainly disagree, but my version of "dabbling" would probably be a small Proto-48 diorama with a few high-quality, favorite items.  My purchase decisions would be dictated by the needs of the diorama, rather than by what's on the hobby shop shelves.  I could imagine hand-laid track on individual ties; a few brass freight cars from Proto Craft or Rich Yoder, plus scratchbuilt cars or limited production craftsman kit cars.  It would be a small effort, but a very special showpiece.  That's probably what it would be if I were to dabble.  If I were to build a big O scale layout, it would have much more relaxed standards, and the answers would be entirely different.

It's all theoretical anyway.  I expect to stick with HO.

Jack, you might find that Proto-48 is the scale/gauge combination that will satisfy your need for a challenge, rather than OO gauge.

Tom

 

[IRONROOSTER]

Jack Derby

Are there still any OO gaugers around? And I am referring to American OO scale, with 19mm gauge track.  I am interested in starting a layout in this obscure scale because I appreciate the challange and model building skills required, and would like to know if there are any left to learn from.

 

There is an NMRA SIG for OO.  Web page here.

Good luck

Paul

[Jack Derby]

Are there still any OO gaugers around? And I am referring to American OO scale, with 19mm gauge track.  I am interested in starting a layout in this obscure scale because I appreciate the challange and model building skills required, and would like to know if there are any left to learn from.

[Milepost 266.2]

I really like On30 and will probably build a layout one of these days, but if I were to do mainline O scale, I would want something like this

http://www.toytrainsontracks.com/

 

 

[leighant]

I DID dabble in O scale once. Built a photo diorama to make a special effects scene for Model Railroader photo contest. Scene of brave engineer moving hazardous cars away from a burning refinery so they don't blow up the whole town. (There was a true-story example of this in Mexico early 20th century with engineer who pulled burning dynamite car out of town. It blew HIM up but saved the town.) I did say "dabble", didn't I? I bought two undec Weaver tanks and painted and decaled them. Salvaged code 100 rail from old train set HO and hand laid it to gauge to fit the trucks on the Weaver cars. Bought a non-working Lionel Alco FA cheap to use the wheels and chassis, and scratchbuilt an Alco diesel switcher mostly from cardboard from a scale drawing. Had fun. My small adventure in O. Didn't win.

[wjstix]

hornblower

No confusion Catt.  True O Scale is 1:48.  However, the largest market share is with 3 rail O Gauge where anything that fits on O gauge track is OK.  The trains themselves range from not much larger than S Scale through true 1:48.  Vehicle offerings in true 1:48 are terribly limited with the market accepting 1:50 trucks and 1:43 cars because so few 1:48 vehicles are available. Some structure kit lines are even sized to "fit" both O and S scale layouts.  

Would this situation be accepted by HO or N scale modelers?  I think not.  Thus, unless you approach the problem as a handy way to force perspective, the lack of products with true scale fidelity would be the biggest obstacle I'd consider when building an O Scale layout.

Why did O Gauge develop this way while HO and N Scale stayed true to scale?  Who knows.

 

 

Well, a lot of folks, actually.... 

 

Marklin was the first company to offer multiple gauges of toy trains - before that, each manufacturer normally just made trains to one size, with no connection to what size other companies used. Marklin numbered their sizes from 1 to 4, with Number 1 being the smallest at 1-3/4" gauge. This scales out to 1:32, but now is most associated with "large scale" or "G gauge" trains, usually narrow gauge trains (LGB, Bachmann etc.)

 

When they created a smaller (1-1/4") gauge about 100 years ago, the only number left was "0" (zero), which came to be called "O" (as in the letter O ("oh")) in time. If you divide it out, O gauge works out to 1:45 scale, or 17/64th inch = I foot. That scale wasn't very easy to work with, considering at the time almost everything had to be scratchbuilt, so in Europe, where the metric system was well known, they chose to use 7mm = 1 foot, a scale of 1:43.55 = 1 foot. That's why you see so many European made "O scale" automobile models that are listed as 1:43 or 1:43.5. In the US and Canada, we liked inches and feet, so used 1/4" = 1 foot, or 1:48 scale. This means that US "O scale" trains are slightly undersized, and run on a track gauge of 5' rather than the correct 4'-8-1/2" standard gauge, and the European models are slightly oversized.

 

As far as three-rail O, many products available today are 1:48 scale models, not toys. BTW in the early days of the hobby, most O scale model railroads used three-rail track (largely so they could use Lionel's scale Hudson or 0-6-0 switcher) but used a smaller outside third-rail, similar to what the New York Central used in the New York City area instead of overhead wire to power it's electrified trains. Yes, toy train manufacturers made some trains much smaller than scale, down to about 1:64 linear scale, so they could go around sharp O27 curves, but that doesn't mean ALL three rail trains are undersized toys. There are many superb O scale layouts today using three rail track - one was on the cover of RMC a couple of months ago in fact.

 

The Plasticville line of model building kits came out at a time when both Lionel O and American Flyer S toy trains were popular, so they made their buildings to be somewhere in between the two sizes, so they could be used in both. Since many O gauge toy trains were smaller than scale, they were close to the scale of the Plasticville buildings. That's the only building line I can think of that advertised itself and working in both O and S gauge train layouts?

 

HO and N aren't exactly pure either....

 

HO scale means "Half O". Since it started in Europe, they made it 1/2 of their 7mm = 1 foot, 1:43.55 O scale, which works out to 3.5mm = 1 foot, or 1:87.1 scale. This has generally been accepted as the correct "HO scale" ever since, althought it is technically a bit off scale - plus, in the U.K., their smallest electric motors wouldn't fit in British style engines, so they ran trains using HO gauge track, but a linear scale of 4mm =  1 foot, or 1:76 scale, generally called "OO scale". OO is still the most popular in the U.K., and is used as I understand in Australia and New Zealand too.

 

N scale's name comes from the track being Nine mm wide, but early trains were made to a scale of 1:148, sometimes called "OOO" or "Treble O"; this is still the scale used for "N" trains in the UK. Elsewhere, 1:160 was accepted as the correct scale.

[the old train man]

Ok guys Im talking about o scale. After doing my homework, I find that I dont have the money or space to have o scale at this time,( I wanna run long trains) . Thanks for all the replys. I might raise the level of my ho scale layout so I can see the details better. I hope I dont end up tearing it all down & starting over.

[DigitalGriffin]

The one that provided the engine I wanted.

[7j43k]

sandusky

...that always brings out the stuffed shirt crowd to suggest a 48" (or whatever) minimum radius. 

 

 

"stuffed shirt" (def)--a conservative, pompous person

                        

Since you appear to be suggesting a 32" radius minimum, and since 32" is well within your term of "or whatever", are you including yourself in the stuffed shirt crowd?

 

 

Ed

[sandusky]

The time honored tradition is that "you can't". The truth is, you can, but you will be making some concessions from the start. In the 70s, AHM offerred (I think it was) 24" radius track; that always brings out the stuffed shirt crowd to suggest a 48" (or whatever) minimum radius. If you go with that approach (I would actually stick to no less than about a 32" radius) you will be better off with 36'-40' cars, and nothing longer than a GP-7 or such, (about 50'). A 44 tonner would be better, but those cannot be had for the price of a vintage Atlas O F9 from the 70s. 10 cars at a time will be probably be tough, but that depends primarily on your design and any other compromises you are willing to make. The O scale forum is a good resource.

Mike

 

[DSchmitt]

Sir Madog

 

 

hornblower

True O Scale is 1:48

 

 

Objection, your Honor!

True O scale is 1/44.9 or, when Marklin "invented" the scale 1/45. In Germany, O scale still is 1/45, in Britain (and in France, IIRC) it is 1/43.5 and the US it is 1/48

Just take the standard gauge of 1,435mm and divide it by 32mm, the O Scale gauge ...

HO and N scale are not much better. The Brits run their trains on HO scale track, but the scale is 1/76. At least they don´t call it HO, but OO. The Japanese call it HO, but the scale is 1/80. N scale is 1/160, but in Britain it is 1/144 and in Japan 1/150 - both are utterly wrong. Japan runs 3 1/2 ft. gauge trains on 9mm track and that equates to 1/118. To be correct, that gauge should be 6.5mm, which is Z gauge ...

Confused?

 

There is also Proto 48.  1/48 scale trains on correctly gauged (4' 8-1/2") track. US O scale 2-rail runs on 5' gauge track. 

[7j43k]

the old train man

 

If you had a minimum budget,a 14x14 ft.room,wanted to use 2 rail track,liked scale o gauge engines & cars,hated traction tires,strived for realism,wanted to use diesel & steam engines,wanted reliable equiptment, enjoyed running at least 10 freight cars at a time ,  what manufacturer would you suggest to start with ?

 

 

When I read what the OP wrote, I see him interested in "scale O", as opposed to "tinplate O".  Or even "hirail O".  Whether it's O scale or O gage appears to be uninvolved with his question.

If I am misreading his statement, please correct me.

If not, a discussion of manufacturers that can move him forward would seem the direction to go.

When I did my micro-bit of research in the matter, I was disappointed that there was such a lack of manufacturers in the field.  If I had "the big bucks", I'd surely be playing with "the big trains".  As it is, I bought (a long time ago) a brass Great Northern 4-8-4.  It's on my mantle.  It's pretty darn gorgeous and impressive.

Yup, O (scale) would be pretty darn funnish.

Now, back to the job at hand.  Here's a fun list of a whole lot of (clickable) stuff that Atlas has made in the past (their site has the current catalog):

 

http://www.atlaso.com/nowshipping.htm

 

If'n I wanted to dabble, I'd pick up their MP15DC, if I wanted to work in the current-ish era.  I see they also did an Alco RS-1, awhile back.  That's yer older switcher.  For older eras.  The RS-1 is a very sweet loco.  I see by the photos that a modeler could do a whole lot of fixin' up on this one.  It's real nice, but a bit crude.  I mention the switchers, 'cause with a 14' square room, there's not a lot of mainline running available.  Myself, I'd do a switching layout with a mostly hidden mainline loop around the edge so that cars can go off and on the switching area.

It looks like lotsa Atlas stuff will run on 36" radius curves.  

Also, it looks like Free-mo O scale is starting to happen.  So I might consider that as an option.

 

 

Ed

[richhotrain]

Sir Madog

Are we talking about O scale or O gauge - the difference being the first one being actual scale models and the latter one being more in the (albeit good looking) toy train sector?

Good question, Ulrich, and I believe that it remains unanswered.

Rich

[BroadwayLion]

MTH... They make SUBWAY TRAINGS!

 

ROAR

[LensCapOn]

I would be doing On30 so most would be scratch/bash with maybe some B'mann (if they ever get the price sane again).

[BRAKIE]

Sir Madog

Objection, your Honor!

Sustained! Indeed O Scale is different in other countries and is widely confused with 3 rail O Scale here in the US.

I lost count of the times when I've mention O Scale only to hear O Scale is a toy  scale..Never mind the fact O Scale 2 rail is a serious modeling scale just like HO, N and  S scale.

[Anonymous]

hornblower

True O Scale is 1:48

Objection, your Honor!

True O scale is 1/44.9 or, when Marklin "invented" the scale 1/45. In Germany, O scale still is 1/45, in Britain (and in France, IIRC) it is 1/43.5 and the US it is 1/48

Just take the standard gauge of 1,435mm and divide it by 32mm, the O Scale gauge ...

HO and N scale are not much better. The Brits run their trains on HO scale track, but the scale is 1/76. At least they don´t call it HO, but OO. The Japanese call it HO, but the scale is 1/80. N scale is 1/160, but in Britain it is 1/144 and in Japan 1/150 - both are utterly wrong. Japan runs 3 1/2 ft. gauge trains on 9mm track and that equates to 1/118. To be correct, that gauge should be 6.5mm, which is Z gauge ...

Confused?

[DSchmitt]

An organization promoting 2-rail O scale   http://www.oscalekings.org/

Has many links to O scale manufactures and dealers.

There are a lot of 1/48 scale buildings available.  However, most are based on small prototypes.

 

 

[crhostler61]

I would go 2 rail 'O' in a heartbeat if I had the $$$$$...time and space are less of a problem. I tinkered in scale O 25-30 years ago when I lived in Pennsylvania and was connected with the Reading Society of Engineers...they have 2 rail 'O' on the second floor of their building. Anyway. I think at this time with things the major player in 'O' is Atlas...but way back 25 plus years ago when I was a regular at PA train meets...that would include Timonium, MD I was in pursuit of All Nation locomotive and rolling stock kits.

You might also want to look at the mag,  48/ft.,O Scale News, to see what else might be out there.   http://www.oscalenews.com/

Mark H

[hornblower]

No confusion Catt.  True O Scale is 1:48.  However, the largest market share is with 3 rail O Gauge where anything that fits on O gauge track is OK.  The trains themselves range from not much larger than S Scale through true 1:48.  Vehicle offerings in true 1:48 are terribly limited with the market accepting 1:50 trucks and 1:43 cars because so few 1:48 vehicles are available. Some structure kit lines are even sized to "fit" both O and S scale layouts.  

Would this situation be accepted by HO or N scale modelers?  I think not.  Thus, unless you approach the problem as a handy way to force perspective, the lack of products with true scale fidelity would be the biggest obstacle I'd consider when building an O Scale layout.

Why did O Gauge develop this way while HO and N Scale stayed true to scale?  Who knows.

[Catt]

hornblower

The one thing that really irks me about "O" scale is that the industry just expects modelers to accept "close enough" as actually being in scale. Something is very wrong when a 1:43 scale VW Bug looks like it can take out a 3-rail 4-8-4 or a 1:50 scale dump truck yet the industry (and even the marketplace) deems this as acceptable!

I think you are confusing the two ) scale in this country is 1:48. O gauge which is not as fussy as scale use the other scales.Not to mention the fact that in today's market place you can count actually 1:48 scale vehicles on one hand and probably have on finger not used.

[hornblower]

There's also narrow gauge "O" scale to consider.  Bigger size but still able to negotiate HO scale curves (and even HO track if you go On2 1/2).

The one thing that really irks me about "O" scale is that the industry just expects modelers to accept "close enough" as actually being in scale.  Something is very wrong when a 1:43 scale VW Bug looks like it can take out a 3-rail 4-8-4 or a 1:50 scale dump truck yet the industry (and even the marketplace) deems this as acceptable!

[DSchmitt]

Atlas O are fine products and the easiest to find in 2-rail.

Weaver Models recently closed, but their cars and locos are probably still in stock in some stores and are available used.  They made 2-rail and 3-rail locos and cars

Many MTH (3-rail) and Lionel O-gauge (3-rail) and all Weaver (3-rail) freight cars are scale.  They can be converted to 2-rail by changing trucks and couplers.

There are also small companies producing O-scale kits (mainly freight cars)  and there are  O-scale (2-rail) brass locomotives.  

[Anonymous]

Are we talking about O scale or O gauge - the difference being the first one being actual scale models and the latter one being more in the (albeit good looking) toy train sector?

To my knowledge, only Atlas and MTH have a rather limited selection od scale models - I´d be glad to know others.

Larry - thanks for pinpointing me to Norm Charbonneau´s great layout. This guy has done an incredible job! I found his website years ago, but lost the bookmark (and only remembered that his name was French and had something to do with coal).

 Edit:

Look at this video!

[BRAKIE]

I would go with Atlas 2 Rail O Scale..There are other brands besides two.

I would not ask this question on Classic Trains since Classic Trains deals mostly with O-27 scale and 3 rail  O Scale and many may become confused thinking you mean 3 rail...

 

 

[wjstix]

O Gauge Railroading magazine has it's own forums where you can get a lot of information:

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/forums

Given your limited space, which will require sharp curves ("broad" curves in O scale are 72" RADIUS), I would either look at narrow gauge or re-think 3-rail. Right now, about half of all three-rail O products are full 1:48 scale models - Sunset even makes brass three-rail engines. Many three-rail modellers are "hi-railers"; guys building fully scenicked, highly realistic O scale layouts using three-rail track.

For example, take a look at Norm Charbonneau's work:

http://norm.beesky.com/