modelmaker51I am a confirmed DCC user.
Modelmaker51, I'm sorry that you took the bait on this topic. We should have just let the thread peter out.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd out of more than a dozen DC users who responded only a few complained about the complexities of DCC or CV's, or whatever.
Allow me to share this tidbit about CVs. I use the CVs that enhances the operation of my 3 DCC/Sound locomotives.They are momentum,speed step and start volt.When I tire of sound F8 works wonders by silencing the sound.
However..
The majority of the time this straight DC switcher is used.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
modelmaker51 I am a confirmed DCC user. I have never set a CV. Except when I first got my system I have never looked at an owners manual. All my locos were former DC models which I converted with $12 decoders from NCE (60 in all). I have never had one go bad. I hate sound. I like the independant control of locos, no need to switch tracks off or blocks, I like consisting and I like being able to control lighting effects.
I am a confirmed DCC user.
I have never set a CV. Except when I first got my system I have never looked at an owners manual. All my locos were former DC models which I converted with $12 decoders from NCE (60 in all). I have never had one go bad. I hate sound. I like the independant control of locos, no need to switch tracks off or blocks, I like consisting and I like being able to control lighting effects.
OK, fine.
I just said as few posts ago that one size does not fit all.
And out of more than a dozen DC users who responded only a few complained about the complexities of DCC or CV's, or whatever.
But I knew it was just a matter of time before someone from the DCC camp spoke up to tell us in some way or another how wonderful DCC is and how much we are "missing", and that its not "as hard as we think". Guess what? We don't care.
I have used DCC for many, many, hours on the layouts of a number of friends. I even helped design and build some of those layouts. I full well understand how easy - or hard, DCC can be depending on your needs and wants. I know ALL the features and benefits of DCC.
My layout is DC, but there are no "block toggles" - imagine that!
Actually the DC layouts of a number of those who have responed to this thread do not have any block toggles.
So much for that argument.
Consisting - well in some situations that is a valuable feature of DCC - BUT Dr. Wayne has a popular video of a doubled headed train with a pusher - on his no block toggle DC controlled layout - simply amazing!
I have no problem double and triple heading steam locos of various wheel arrangements and brands on my layout without any speed matching or consisting.
And most all my diesel powered trains are pulled by three and four unit lashups - all units powered - again with no issues.
So if being able to run one loco up to another and couple to it is the primary feature DCC would add to my layout, no thanks I will skip the $3000 decoder investment my fleet would require as well as all the additional work it would involve and just do that with a few $2 kill switches in the engine terminal.
Not to mention the fact that it would upset my simple 5 button throttle operation and replace it with something with too many buttons and displays I can't see.
Lights - again, for some, depending on the era modeled, lights can be an important feature. And if that is you, DCC is for you.
But Dr. Wayne takes the working headlights out of his locos. and I model a time when it was a simple "turn it on while you are running", and even that policy was a pretty new idea in the daytime.
So again, I will skip buying and installing 130 decoders or boosters for 300 plus feet of track.
And I would still need "blocks" anyway because what is important to ME is CTC and signaling - DCC or DC - CTC and signaling takes wire and infrastructure.....infrastructure above and beyond independent control of the trains.
The real railroads have spend a lot of time and money for a very long time now to make sure two trains do not occupy the same space at the same time - I feel the same way about my models......my layout has detection, signals, CTC and ATC. DC can meet those goals just as well as DCC, and for a lot less money.
Sheldon
Now you've set a cat among the pigeons!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
No - I run DC and have a friend that had a hug B & O layout that is also only DC.
IRONROOSTER I am all over the map here. When I run my HO trains I use DC. For S I use DCC. For Sn2 I use DC. For On30 I use DCC. For 2 rail O Scale I use DC. For 3 rail O Gauge I use AC - except for my Protosound 3 switcher which I use DCC for. For G I use DC. S is my main scale, but I like to run the others from time to time. Enjoy Paul
I am all over the map here.
When I run my HO trains I use DC.
For S I use DCC.
For Sn2 I use DC.
For On30 I use DCC.
For 2 rail O Scale I use DC.
For 3 rail O Gauge I use AC - except for my Protosound 3 switcher which I use DCC for.
For G I use DC.
S is my main scale, but I like to run the others from time to time.
Enjoy
Paul
Paul is a perfect example of how control system choice is linked to operational needs and goals, there is no one size fits all.
The responses to this thread echo stuff I have been saying for years.
If you are not into sound, and/or you are not into operating with a large group of operators, there is little incentive to use DCC.
Or, as in my case, if group operation is CTC based, DCC offers very few, if any, advantages over Computerized Block Control or Advanced Cab Control. For CTC operation a complex wiring infrastructure is required with all three.
Sound remains the controling factor. If you want the fullest onboard sound experiance in small scales, you most likely want/need DCC.
If sound is not on your radar, or is "secondary" in importance, or "basic" layout based sounds can meet your needs, then once again DCC has little to offer the lone operator.
The biggest irony of all is that sound is likely most effective as a one on one experiance between the operator and his locomotive - after that it just degrades into "noise".
Since I am WAY more interested in the "action" of multiple trains, even as a lone operator, and more into being the "dispatcher" or a railfan, rather than being the engineer, sound is of only passing interest to me.
When I get to that stage, I plan to experiment with some layout based sound effects and "background" sounds, but have no interest in onboard sound in HO.
The Winneshiek & Western runs nicely on DC without modification of older locomotives, without having to isolate and re-wire turnout frogs, and without having to download 60+ page manuals off the internet that still don't answer basic questions. (I sampled DCC w/sound with that Bachmann 2-6-0, but for me, "no woofit".)
Bill
Plain ol' DC and block control for me, too..
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
dstarr I run plain old DC. With a single track main and just me running the layout, I don't need DCC. I have block toggle switches that let me turn off the juice to sidings, passing tracks and spurs, letting non-running trains to stay put while the train I have running on the main remains under control. I wired for two cab control back then, but I have never bothered to install the second cab.
I run plain old DC. With a single track main and just me running the layout, I don't need DCC. I have block toggle switches that let me turn off the juice to sidings, passing tracks and spurs, letting non-running trains to stay put while the train I have running on the main remains under control. I wired for two cab control back then, but I have never bothered to install the second cab.
My layout's set up essentially the same, although no wiring for two cab control. I run with a PWM throttle powered by a Controlmaster 20.
Wayne
Like others with single track mainlines, I too run solely on straight DC. yes, I have seen other layouts with DCC and been impressed with many of the features of DCC-though the sound cards seem to be quite monotonous. Probably won't switch over unless a lottery type windfall lands in my lap.
Don H.
I'm still all DC. When I finally have the space for a larger layout, I may add DCC to some of my stuff, but I have a few things that will always be DC.
_________________________________________________________________
The LM&E is a three level railroad 13' x17',(lower level not completed). I run DC exclusivly from three ControlMaster20s with teathered throttles. Don't particularly like sound but to satisfy my Grandson, I have the MRC sound system for locomotives. Use it very seldom.
Would not consider going DCC. at this stage of the game, to costly to change, just shake my head at hearing of all the troubles with speed settings, decoders frying, etc etc. I understand block system wiring quite well. I been at it for many years. I DO NOT understand electronics very well and don't feel compelled to learn. So that does it.Also like buying two locomotives and getting the third one for free compared to DCC.
Johnboy out..................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
I run DC only too. My layout is in a spare bedroom that is 12 X 12 and the layout is L-shaped 10 X 12. I have a single track mainline with a passing siding, industries and just 5 blocks with 2 cabs. It is what I started modeling with years ago and what I am most comfortable with too.
Mostly I run DC because I like my vintage brass steam locomotives and I don't want to modify them too much to add DCC and all the updates it would take to change them over.
If I were to build a larger layout one day, I would probably park my brass and start over with DCC equipped locomotives, more for the operation possibilites over the sounds etc.
tomikawaTT and only a d'raiba with a death wish would ever go to full speed on a route with more curves than a Hawaiian Tropic competition.
and only a d'raiba with a death wish would ever go to full speed on a route with more curves than a Hawaiian Tropic competition.
Chuck,
Could you document this comparison with pictorial evidence?
.......lots and lots of it.....
please?
- Douglas
[quote user="NS1001"]
Speaking of running DC vs DCC does anybody run their HO MTH locos with DCS?
I have on a friends layout, it was the HO Erie Triplex and it ran great, it does run at speed step at 1 mph. Incredible slow speed performance.
Did the same with dcc also.
I run strictly DC. Of my 105 locomotives, 4...by default, are factory DCC equipped and another is a second hand engine set up with DCC by the previous owner. Sound...we just won't go there. Don't like it.
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
DC user also.
Russell
I use both.DCC for sound and DC for my older non DCC engines.
I use a MRC Tech 6 as power on my switching layout.The T-6 has a DC or DCC mode button with LED light to show you what the power mode is set for.
I asked this simple question myself a couple years ago, sparked a debate over which was better. That wasn't the purpose, I just wondered. It was the only thread I ever started that I didn't read all the replies on, several pages. Hope that doesn't happen here
DCC is cool, yes indeed. But I opt for DC for the reasons above, and the cost of converting a bunch of old school BB and YB diesels. Dan
Like Chuck said, I still run DC. DC with radio throttles, detection, signaling, CTC, ATC, intergrated turnout route control, walk around progessive cab selection (based on MZL), constant brightness headlights - but no sound.
Don't like onboard sound, my HiFi trained ears tell me it is just a 1967 nine transistor radio stuck betwwen to AM stations.....
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I run a straight DC HO layout with 325 feet of mainline running. I've mated a Crest Revolution throttle to a MDC Controlmaster 20 powerpack. It's fused for 10 amps so plenty of power to run any lashup or multiple trains. The Revolution throttle gives me control for running and switching. Having some engines reverse wired allows for head-to-head meets. This arrangement combined with block wiring allows me to do without DCC.
My preference for plain-Jane DC, MZL system (which eliminates 75% of the cab-to-track selectors) is well documented on these forums.
Sheldon (Atlantic Central) runs a somewhat different version of MZL, with radio throttles. Again, plain DC.
I can live a long, happy life without sound, smoke and speed matching. My open frame motors seem to speed match themselves nicely on part throttle - and only a d'raiba with a death wish would ever go to full speed on a route with more curves than a Hawaiian Tropic competition. With half a dozen trains running at once, many on hidden track, sound would be a confusing distraction. As for smoke, I already have problems breathing...
AFAIK, all those packaged train sets come with DC power packs. Not holding my breath waiting to see DCC in a kid's gift train box.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
LIONS run with DC. Everybody knows that the LION runs DC. LION has an automated layout, 14 miles of track, eight trains at once.
No Computers, No DC, No Throttles, No reversing switches, just trains running smoothly, stopping correctly. Nice service.
Visit the Route of the Broadway LION
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I still run DC three cab control and on occasion, will run the six BLI DCC/sound engines I have....too late in my life....to change something that works for me. Grandkids like the sound....but I can live without it and don't have to worry about speed matching to run anything together.
Take Care!
Frank