Too much space: is it possible?

[NevinW]

My kids are moving out and my wife has the bug to sell our house and buy a new one. Well, she took me by this house and it is really nice and out in the woods away from everything. The house is smaller than the current house. Nice and my wife loves it.

Then the owner shows me the "barn". 48X70 feet with a second story that is heated and finished. The thing is enormous!! It was designed by the owner as a wood shop but looks like a furniture factory. I feel overwhelmed by the size of model railroad you could build in this thing. G scale wouldn't be that much of a problem. I shudder to think what I could do with that space. [:p] This suggests an entirely different set of problems that I have never considered before. Is it possible to have too much space?

[Anonymous]

Yes it possible. Build a layout that fits your goals, maintinance abilty, and budget.
It doesn't have to fit that HUGE area.
You just have alot more possible space to work in.

[rrinker]

I agree, you CAN have 'too much'. Now, you need to find out how many railroading friends you have around that can help out, both for construction and operation. And don't forget to leave space for a crew lounge for off-duty people so they aren't hanging out and getting in the way of crews trying to operate. With that kind of space, you can partition it off to make a lounge area, keep all such activity out of the actual house, which will make the better half MUCH happier, plus partition space off to be a workshop, keeping the dirty partsof the hobby away from the layout, AND still have room for a very nicely done layout.

Now I'm jealous!

--Randy

[Anonymous]

I am in a similar situation. I am looking into the possibility of purchasing a closed down mining equipment factory on the northside of town. After remodeling it and adding a top floor, I will have roughly 35 X75 of open space for a model railroad. My ambitions is large eneugh I can build one that big. But I am definatly going to need help to run all the trains that a layout that size can handle.

James

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NevinW

My kids are moving out and my wife has the bug to sell our house and buy a new one. Well, she took me by this house and it is really nice and out in the woods away from everything. The house is smaller than the current house. Nice and my wife loves it.

Then the owner shows me the "barn". 48X70 feet with a second story that is heated and finished. The thing is enormous!! It was designed by the owner as a wood shop but looks like a furniture factory. I feel overwhelmed by the size of model railroad you could build in this thing. G scale wouldn't be that much of a problem. I shudder to think what I could do with that space. [:p] This suggests an entirely different set of problems that I have never considered before. Is it possible to have too much space?

You don't have to use the whole space for a model railroad.

At least that's what my wife tells me about our 34 x 24 basement.

I would think the gating factor(s) would be cost of building the thing, whether or not you could assemble a cast of thousands (or at least a cast of several) to help you build and operate it and how much maintenance the beast would need.

By the way. Where's the house located, what's the asking price and are you going to make an offer?[:-^][:-^][:-^][:-^]

Andre

[tomwatkins]

Yes, too much space is a possibilty. You don't have to fill the whole basement, or barn, with railroad. I think there needs to be a real possibility of seeing the project to reasonable completion, although I agree that model railroads are rarely "completely done".

One approach might be to design and build a smaller railroad in one area of the building which could be expanded and added to into other areas. That way you could get something up and running, move on to building scenery and operation and then move on to building the next addition if you want to.

Have Fun,
Tom Watkins

[Anonymous]

Ask about utility costs and see if you can afford to support the summer cooling and the winter warming in that prospective house.

As previously stated, having a workroom, family room where people can relax and possibly a space for the wife's own interests.

With the magnitude of that much space it is easy to feel "overwhelmed" and not do anything at all. If it was me, I would break the overall project down to several "towns" and areas such as Yard, engine areas etc and work on it one at a time.

Avoid creating too much "Track" if your trains must travel all the way back to the rear and work it's way back to you you may actually forget about it as it may take several minutes or more to make the trip. Try to use onboard sound on the engines so you can track em. Of course if that chugging and puffing suddenly stays in one location then you know that engine may have had a derailment before it really becomes a problem.

Consider the wear and tear.. Would you be willing to clean all that track, or fix all those cars? For some people workbench time some times exceeds layout time.

If you plan to have several people come out to run your railroad as a operating session, look at your lands. Can you park 6 cars in that driveway and not interfere with normal everyday access?

Does your house have more than one bathroom where you may be able to host 6 or more people in the train room without interfering with the rest of the private living space in your home?

Will you be able to get that 4x8 sheet of plywood up there? Or will your track in the corner furthest from the heater experience too much contraction in the winter? Is the environment stable as far as dust, mold and mildew?

Many things to look at. I only have a humble 2x8 foot with big plans for the future but that 2x8 footer is teaching me what I can use and not use. For example I dont need that 300 car mega yard/division point if I only have 60 cars (half of which is unfinished)

One other thing, if people come to run thier trains on your pike, what happens if they show up with a DCC engine (not BLI) and you only have block/cab analog control?

Are you able to cool all your power packs and remove the heat away from the operator so the person does not "Cook" as he or she drives that train.

A closed route that supports very top speed operations such as may be when a operator brings a 8 year old and his or her train to see how fast it can go... (Trust me, children loves to see them go) without fear of derailments, running off the track onto the floor etc.

Will your wife be disturbed at 4 in the morning when you fire up that big boy and drag that 200 car hotshot onto the main for a bit of full moon rip? (Soundproofing)

And finally. read and re read the numerous "Rules" that helps teach us what to do and not to do due to past human/layout problems.

[IRONROOSTER]

While I would check out the heating/cooling costs, the main thing is to not create a maintenance nightmare. This means creating a group to help with the layout or keeping the track work relatively simple. With this kind of space you could have long stretches between towns, long sidings, etc and keep the number of turnouts reasonable. Put in an air filter system to help keep the dust under control.

I would also build a couple of return loops on wheels so that as you build the layout you can have one at each end. This provides early operation. And you may decide the layout is big enough before you fill the space.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

IF it were me and I could dedicate the space to trains, I would have some of the room for the layout (obviously), a room for the "common" library where operators could store some of their unwanted books and mags for others to read, a room for model building and repairs, a workshop, a room for dispatching and computer operations for dcc, the crew room and lounge, and evenly possibly a very small museum where you and others could display items that are meaningful. This would attract a very good operating crew which you would need to maintain the layout you have and get it built in a reasonable time frame. I would not let this layout be a "lone wolf" layout.

[Anonymous]

Start small, progress as large as you want as money provides. If you fill it all up to start with, you can't upgrade as time goes by. Someday, the whole thing will be filled up and all the locals can come run trains on it. I beleve DCC is the only way to go on a large layout. Digitrax is a good company, because it is easy to upgrade systems as time goes by. I have an Empire Builder II that I love using.

[Anonymous]

[:O][:O][bow][%-)] Ive never heard of that!

[tatans]

Just think: you could have one straight 70 foot section of track (Just like Saskatchewan) and FINALLY get to run that 75 car propane and dynamite freight train at 95 miles per hour. What a dream, what a decision, I don't think I am capable of making a decision like yours, I wish you the very best of luck. let us know about your decision. If you werent confused before, I'm sure you are now.

[Anonymous]

tatans

I think the man is no longer confused. He has had all the cobwebs cleared out and his world is bright and sharp with the prospect of a empire.

Heck, little old me is getting a bit more awake on the forums reading about a fellow hobbyist's good fortune.

=)

[ClinchValleySD40]

It takes a lot of time and money to build something large. Then there is upkeep, maintenance. You know what you can afford. Once you decide how much you want to devote to the railroad, size becomes more relevant.

Larry

[cmrproducts]

You can never have enough space to build a model railroad.

My latest layout is in a 25' x 75' basement and I would like to have it 4 feet wider, but it as it is it will keep me busy. I already have 2600 feet of track down and am working on the scenery.

Now how many people did it take to build this layout. I had the help of my 2 boys and this was usually only on weekends. All this was done in 5 years. The easy part (bench work and laying track) is done. Now the layout operates and the many building are being worked on one at a time.

We have twice a month OPs sessions and now that the major track work is done on the layout I am the one to do the scenery, backdrops etc. Yes it is going much slower now but this is my retirement project so I really do not have to get a lot done. In 4 years I will retire and finally have the time to devote some serious work to the layout.

As for maintenance if you build the layout as a low maintenance layout using proper techniques it will not use all of your time to keep it running. Take track cleaning for example putting metal polish on the rails has eliminated having to clean the track more than once a year, if then! All cars are weighted, wheels checked for gauge and Kadee’s put on before they are put on the layout. Each one is entered into a database as it is finished so that a maintenance record is kept on each car. If a car keeps causing trouble it will find a new home.

Don’t let anyone discourage you from having your dream layout.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[88gta350]

Build a sizeable crew lounge and a nicely equipped workshop. That'll cut down on the space a little, then start with what you feel comfortable and leave yourself the possibility to expand into the rest of the area. Or use it to show off Railroad memoribilia, etc...

[RedLeader]

With so many trains to mantain, who could afford a family?[sigh]

[Jetrock]

One thing you might consider is offer to host a club layout in the "barn"--this could provide a way to subsidize both the expense and the labor of an individual layout in such a space.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Maybe the issue of large spaces is boiled down to this: for planning purposes large spaces are wonderful. There so many possibilities. But for turning them into real model railroads, they are a lot more difficult. There are a lot of practical issues that must be dealt with, all of which have already been mentioned here.

[egmurphy]

After 18 responses, there's probably nothing new to add, but that doesn't deter me.

I don't think you can have too much space, but I agree that you can be seduced by all the space and make a bad decision about how big to build.

I agree with the suggestions about crew lounge, workshop, display area, and designing an expandable trackplan that can be done in phases.

Good luck

Ed (envious [:P] of your good fortune)

[cwclark]

That room is perfect!...you can have a large yard, staging yard, and all the switching potential known to man!...you even have the room to put in a real railroad engine cab to run the trains...I have a 23' x 25' and still need more room but must be satisfied with what i do have...I'm not going to move again!...what a hassle!...nope...they're gonna just have to bury me with my trains in the backyard someday...anyway...70' x 48' is the perfect room for a perfect layout...Chuck

[danmerkel]

I've always felt that a layout should be judged more on its complexity than just its size. Let's say you have a 30x60 basement. It would be much easier to maintain a single loop of track that runs all of the way around the outside walls of that basement than it would a shelf-type layout along a short wall with 20-25 turnouts.

But you must also consider the costs of building it... wood, track, scenic materials, paint... it all adds up. If you start on a project that is so big that you would not be able to afford to finish it, then, yes, you could have too much space.

Finally, ask yourself if that is what you really want. Some might be much more content moving a dozen cars around on something resembling "The Timesaver" than rolling 50-car freights that take fifteen minutes to go from A to B.

One thing is for sure... just because you have the space, you don't have to fill it up.

dlm

[Anonymous]

Yeah, if I had alot of space, I would build a huge layout. Why not? If you have the money and time to build it, go for it. It cost over $3 million dollars for one person's dream layout, Northlandz. I don't remember how large it is thought.

[Anonymous]

I agree that there is definitely such a thing as too big of a layout. It will differ from person to person, but there is a point where it's too big, and there is also a point where you will find yourself making compromises to complete a larger layout.

While some people don't mind taking 30 years to build a masterpiece, others might rather get to a finished point in 2 (and even if you like the idea of taking 30 years to complete your masterpiece, think about the possibility of having to move for whatever reason). Some people will have bigger budgets than others. Some people will have more help than others (some people will want to do it all on their own to begin with). And some people have more talent and skills than others. Some people are going to detail their layouts a little more than others, and some layout styles are going to require more work per square foot than others (city-scape vs. middle of the desert, for example).

So I would take that and more into consideration when deciding how much of that space to use on a layout.

---jps

[Anonymous]

Perhaps you have answered your own question. You mentioned G scale "wouldn't be that much of a problem." How many of us struggling with the maintenance of outdoor railroading in "G" wouldn't kill to have it all "under one roof." You shouldn't require the expense of stainless sreel rail and cleaning brass would be a breeze. Scratch building in "G" is nearly like working on your car compared to the smaller gauges. The deminsion, 48'X70' , is far less intimidating if you are modeling 29 to 1 rather than 87 to 1 or anything in between. D.C.C. would afford you far more operating options plus higher voltage through the rail for those long runs. The only real challange is getting started on "the right foot." There is room for your own car shops; even a light machine shop if time and finances
allow. If you prefer operating "solo," the larger gauge is probably the best solution. Green with envy!

[Anonymous]

Some rules of life:
1. You can never be too rich
2. You can never be too well armed
3. You can never have too much beer
4. Your model railroad can never be too big

[citylimits]

Whilst I belive that too much space in usually not that much of a burden I do belief that with a model railroad that is too large either in size, the number of people it takes to build and maintain it, you can actually end up with a tiresome monster that is more demanding than a hungry cat. Considering that a model railroad is really a life long commitment and can often take years to build and that very few are ever finished to a point where there is no more work to do it makes sense to design and build a layout that will give you the maximum amount of fun in the smallest amount of space that you can work on without it all looming too large in your mind to a point where you would rather cut kindling wood than work on the layout.

HighIron2003ar makes agood point....Snip/ With the magnitude of that much space it is easy to feel "overwhelmed" and not do anything at all. If it was me, I would break the overall project down to several "towns" and areas such as Yard, engine areas etc and work on it one at a time"/snip.
Realising that this is true bought me back from the modeling wilderness after being away for several years as I was unable to come to grips with all of the space I had built a layout. I've reduced the layout size, freeing up some space in the garage to park my car and divided the layout into several diorama style sections that when finsihed will blend together to form something that is visually complete. Anyway, if it all seems like it is going to be too much like hard work and fun turns into a vocation then your layout is toooooooooooooo big.

[Anonymous]

My building is 28 by 40 ft. & my layout is 18 by 36 ft. & I can walk all the way around the outside. I still have plenty of space on the inside. By having a space around the outside
of the tables it helps to reach everything on 4ft. wide spaces.
I also have a table running down one wall that I'm going to make into yards. That table is 2ft. wide by 36ft. long & I have already made a steel bridge to cross the 3ft. gap.
So, to me size does matter. The larger the space the better. Build a seperate space for
a VCR or DVD watching area & a small snack bar. Put a small work shop for trains in there. When you get done w/a layout to fill the room, that will be too small. Then you can start something downstairs, like an N scale layout.
I figured if I ever won the lottery, I would build a building about the size you are talking about for my dream layout. Although I have been putting together train layouts for about 44 years, this one is my largest "so far". Shucks, in about 3 more years, I'm going to need more space to add on.

Larry

[Anonymous]

Very Nice, This is so cool .I have a layout set in my 'train-room' it's 9 1/2 x 11 double decked with a helix,point to point.and I wish I had more too.But I know this is all I need
47 turnouts,a 7 1/2 foot yard,paper mill,steel mill, brewey, and an operating over seas
container yard that when compleated wiil have DCC operating cranes to load and unload container's.And I know I wanted more to include.But as I started construction
I found this was all I could take on.
I've been working on this now for two years,and I just finshed the upper-deck track work.I find myself thinking of a space as large as yours and can not fathom how I would fill so much space.
Good Luck on your Empire

[RRRerun]

I am sure all of the suggestions made have given you some great ideas. G scale seems to me to be the perfect choice to model in that large area. Just think, if you ever fill that area up and run out of room to expand. What a magnificent helix you could construct down to ground level outside to a garden railroad. Endless possibilities present themselves in your situation and I am sure you will make all the right decisions. Guess I am a dreamer too, but isn't that the best part of this hobby !!!!