Marc_Magnus I use Tortoise and Hankcraft display motor (Switchmaster) for all my turnouts in Nscale. I used Tortoise mostly because of the already build in contacts but the price go to a near untolerable level I now come back to Hankcraft motors; when ordered in great quantities they are more affordable. About servos, I'm not convinced and the price is near a Tortoise motor when you look for discount price. The two motors I use have never show any troubles since more than 25 years
I use Tortoise and Hankcraft display motor (Switchmaster) for all my turnouts in Nscale.
I used Tortoise mostly because of the already build in contacts but the price go to a near untolerable level I now come back to Hankcraft motors; when ordered in great quantities they are more affordable.
About servos, I'm not convinced and the price is near a Tortoise motor when you look for discount price.
The two motors I use have never show any troubles since more than 25 years
After reading and giving an answer to this topic I take a look about stalling motors.
I didn't have try them but on the "Proto 87 store" they offer a stall switch motor to operate the Proto 87 turnouts; knowing the quality of the Proto 87 products, for sure this is a good motor and whith contacts.
The second good news is the price, 70$ for a six pack motors.
Did anyone try them?
NP2626 WOW, some of you sure get into complicated systems! I have no problem with your doing so, it’s just not the direction I have an interest in. I like simple! I have used plenty of ground throws where that works and would use more if I where designing a new layout. Even with my simple system there was plenty of wiring needed. I have one set of three turnouts linked together and four of two turnouts linked together. Some of these have power routing using Atlas Snap Relays and all have powered frogs. That’s enough wiring for my needs. After all that, I started wondering if this was hobby about model railroading; or, a hobby about wiring circuits!
Mark,
My goal is simple operation after it is constructed - while retaining/acheaving the advanced features of signaling and CTC. Simple construction does not always provide simple operation.
Sheldon
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
bsteel4065 Hi Sheldon Yes, there are a few buttons to press and more action than pushing or pulling a rod, but with routing macros I can direct 6, 7 tortoises with one macro number. It was a concious decision on my part having previously had DC with DPDT switches and push buttons on a larger control panel that confused my dad no end when he was alive. I find this method straightforward and easy. Plus I spent my whole life in engineering, IT and project managing automation systems so maybe this just comes easier to me! Cheers Barry
Hi Sheldon
Yes, there are a few buttons to press and more action than pushing or pulling a rod, but with routing macros I can direct 6, 7 tortoises with one macro number. It was a concious decision on my part having previously had DC with DPDT switches and push buttons on a larger control panel that confused my dad no end when he was alive.
I find this method straightforward and easy. Plus I spent my whole life in engineering, IT and project managing automation systems so maybe this just comes easier to me!
Cheers
Barry
Barry, I was progaming some of the first PLS's for industry in the early 80's, no fear of high tech here. I just don't like the "computer" type interfaces, I would rather have old fashioned buttons.
I use very small lighted pushbuttons located in the track diagram of small local "tower" panels, likely not much different than your indicator panels.
Many turnouts are in macros and are aligned as complete routes with the push of ONE button.
These controls are duplicated on the CTC panel, and can be duplicated anywhere else they are needed - with not many more wires than you are using.
Here is an example of how a "wye" is controlled with only three lighted pushputtons:
The tortoise machines are then controlled by the circuit on the lower part of this single turnout diagram: " target=""> All my crossovers, including complex multi route interlockings are similar, requiring only one or two buttons to select complex routes. The lights light up to show the route selected - other lights are dark. Sheldon
The tortoise machines are then controlled by the circuit on the lower part of this single turnout diagram:
" target=""> All my crossovers, including complex multi route interlockings are similar, requiring only one or two buttons to select complex routes. The lights light up to show the route selected - other lights are dark. Sheldon
All my crossovers, including complex multi route interlockings are similar, requiring only one or two buttons to select complex routes. The lights light up to show the route selected - other lights are dark.
My current layout is all Tortoise. Each tortoise is controlled by a SPDT toggle switch on the facia, located as close as possible to the turnout. Next to each toggle is a pair of red and green LEDs, wired in series with the Tortoise motor, which serves to limit current thru the LEDs to 20 mA, which is about all the current a LED can stand. I popped a couple of LED's early on, but nothing since. I figure the LEDs that popped were bottom feeders that couldn't quite hack 20 mA. Service life of LEDs on model railroads should exceed the owner's life expectancy.
Power for the tortoises comes from a pair of yard sale wall warts, giving me plus and minus nine volts, and allowing use of SPDT toggles instead of the DPDT toggle you need to run a tortoise off a single power supply.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Matrix, Hat Tricks! LION has row of levers. Call them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
Put them all in Normal position and the train will take the Main Line.
Throw Lever 1 and the train will go to track 6.
Throw Levers 1 & 2 and the train will go to track 2
Throw Levers 1 & 3 and the train will go to track 3
Throw Levers 1 & 4 and the train will go to track 4
Throw Levers 1 & 5 and the train will go to track 5
See how easy this is to dow with Tortoise machines!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
ATLANTIC CENTRALNCE handset to be better than Digitrax
Russell
maxman ATLANTIC CENTRAL How many key strokes does it require to operate a turnout on the NCE handset? 1. Select Accessory button. 2. Enter turnout number and press enter. 3. Screen tells you current position and ask one to press 1 for normal, 2 for reverse, and then press enter. If the turnout is one that you have just thrown and you want to throw it the other way, then it is: 1. Select Accessory and press enter. 2. Press enter again. If it is a pre-programmed route (a Macro), then: 1. Press macro button. 2. Enter Macro number and press enter.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL How many key strokes does it require to operate a turnout on the NCE handset?
1. Select Accessory button.
2. Enter turnout number and press enter.
3. Screen tells you current position and ask one to press 1 for normal, 2 for reverse, and then press enter.
If the turnout is one that you have just thrown and you want to throw it the other way, then it is:
1. Select Accessory and press enter.
2. Press enter again.
If it is a pre-programmed route (a Macro), then:
1. Press macro button.
2. Enter Macro number and press enter.
So, it is pretty much like Digitrax - too many buttons and reading small displays - not for me.
ATLANTIC CENTRALHow many key strokes does it require to operate a turnout on the NCE handset?
bsteel4065 On my new layout I have gone completely DCC and Tortoise. Every point switch on my two level layout is driven through my NCE Power Pro handset via NCE Switch 8's to Tortoise switch machines that drive Peco Code 83 switches. My control panels (that I am currently building) detail the allocated number of the switch. I have allocated 1xx for level 1 and 2xx for level 2. The number of the actual switch is then sequenced from 101, 102 etc..... therefore level 1, switch number 01 is 101; level 2. switch number 8 is 208 and so on. The control panel also has bi-colour LED'S that change from red to green and vice versa in line with the command from the NCE (1 normal or 2 reverse as displayed on the handset.) Sounds complicated but is very easy and very simple. At a glance I know how each switch is set and what number to enter into my NCE handset. As the LED's are mapped onto a track diagram on each panel, I also know the path to set (in green LED's) to move a train to it's required destination. This is excellent for the switch yards as the control panel shows the path to each track and what to switch. Also, with NCE DCC I can program a route macro that will move switches to the desired path when invoked which removes the need to change every individual tortoise. Best thing I decided to do on my layout. It's great. Barry
On my new layout I have gone completely DCC and Tortoise. Every point switch on my two level layout is driven through my NCE Power Pro handset via NCE Switch 8's to Tortoise switch machines that drive Peco Code 83 switches.
My control panels (that I am currently building) detail the allocated number of the switch. I have allocated 1xx for level 1 and 2xx for level 2. The number of the actual switch is then sequenced from 101, 102 etc..... therefore level 1, switch number 01 is 101; level 2. switch number 8 is 208 and so on.
The control panel also has bi-colour LED'S that change from red to green and vice versa in line with the command from the NCE (1 normal or 2 reverse as displayed on the handset.)
Sounds complicated but is very easy and very simple. At a glance I know how each switch is set and what number to enter into my NCE handset. As the LED's are mapped onto a track diagram on each panel, I also know the path to set (in green LED's) to move a train to it's required destination. This is excellent for the switch yards as the control panel shows the path to each track and what to switch.
Also, with NCE DCC I can program a route macro that will move switches to the desired path when invoked which removes the need to change every individual tortoise.
Best thing I decided to do on my layout. It's great.
Barry,
Question if you don't mind.
How many key strokes does it require to operate a turnout on the NCE handset?
While I do consider the NCE handset to be better than Digitrax, I'm not familar with the details of all its functions.
Many years ago, long before DCC, I thought that operating turnouts from a hand held throttle would be perfect, and I'm sure you are very happy, it is a good concept.
But I was less than thrilled when I finally had the chance to try it on a Digitrax equiped layout. Too many buttons, five key strokes, that are too small and too hard to find in that field of 30 plus buttons on that throttle.
It does sound like you have a very good plan for identifing the turnouts track side, which is a very important feature of such a system.
Like many of you I use Tortoises at about 90% of my switch locations. I find them reliable and the options of the DPDT contacts are handy for panel or trackside signals and frog powering.
Many are thrown by a simple DPDT toggle with an LED in series. I use Lexan® household switch blanks on many since they're easy to drill and won't easily break.
These double slips require two machines to work in cooperation so I wired them to a 4 pole 4 position rotary switch. A-B-C-D are the four route choices and you can easily see the route lined using the LED indicators.
Here, everything is lined for the main, green LEDs straight across.
In a few places I use the knob & rod approach as shown here.
Below the layout it looks like this:
And the bits that make it up...
Recently I have found a source for Yellow/Red LEDs so I will be making the secondary trackage and slower speed routes using the more restrictive colors.
A few of my yard leads are out of reach so I have panels set up to control the Tortoises like this. The drawer pull helps avoid bumping into the toggles.
You can easily see the line-up to track 5. This is one of my oldest panels and will be upgraded with better graphics and the yellow/red LEDs soon.
Recently, I installed a Hump Yard Purveyance armstrong lever, you see here tied to a set of points in an area of difficuld accessability. The throw rod is run through a PTFE tube to insulate it from the rails. I have yet to replace the missing ties.
Other places I use the Caboose ground throws, Sprung 202s I think and a few high main-line stands but they are pretty delicate.
Happy Modeling, Ed
Example of one of my controls for the Slo-Mo switch machines.
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
Chuck Tomakawa, Great Mole Hill into Mountain, definition!
NP2626 Changed verbage in the title from throw to activate. People were becoming confused! Here I had thought "Throwing" a switch was proper railroading terminology!
Changed verbage in the title from throw to activate. People were becoming confused! Here I had thought "Throwing" a switch was proper railroading terminology!
Fascia-mounted push rods (with wood bead ends) threaded into slide switches with rods going up through the roadbed. Simple and straightforward, while providing electrical switching for the frog.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
I have a couple powered by tortoises, rest (yard area) are hand thrown using caboose industries ground throws. I control the tortoises via my DCC throttle, using currently a digitrax stationary decoder, will be switching over to a SE8c so I can add signals along the mainline turnouts, without using the tortoise contacts, as I can program the SE8c easier to do a little bit more signal wise.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I have mainly Atlas Code 83 #6s and Shinohara 83 and 70 turnouts.
I have 1 Tortoise machine and many Atlas Snap Track solenoid machines from an old Code 100 layout I used to have.
In my limited spare time for Model Railroading, I am undecided as to how to power them. As usual, $$$ is a major factor, and as someone has said, the price of Tortoise machines eliminates them for now, except for the one I already have.
I have looked at different ways I could use the old Atlas on/off solenoid machines to power the newer Atlas 83 and Shinoharas but haven't determined how it could be done with any realism, except to maybe mount them underneath the turnouts somehow.
Until then, it's just manually throwing the switches.
It depends on the brand and location for me.
My staging turnouts are unreachable, therefore they are pecos with peco brand snap motors, a CDU and deode matrix.
My classification yard is a little tight, but I reused Atlas turnouts and under the table solinoids. Radio shack push buttons.
Any place room and reach aloow I prefer caboos ground throws, as they never confuse wisitors, and the layout is walk around.
All three are acceptable depending on circumstances. Any system may work better for you.
Dave
I use Blue Point throws. I have (had) a walkaround style layout and since switching industries is my favorite thing all switches are easy to reach. I prefer the Blue Points to Caboose throws to keep big fat hands (including mine) out of the railroad.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
For turnouts, I prefer Lion's method. An easy underhand lob gives a nice, high, rim-clearing trajectory.
For the switch points of active turnouts I use a variety of electrical switches for hands-on control and some two-coil machines (Rix and KTM) for points which have to be thrown from two or more places. All are connected to Anderson links by cables (fishing line) under tension. Since all of my points have easy-to-turn hinges, and the bent paper clips I use for Anderson links have beaucoup torsional spring capability, the points never have to handle the direct force of my KTM rocksmashers.
Anything which moves points is mounted along an operating aisle immediately behind the fascia. Since my fishing line linkage is always in tension I have used runs as much as two meters long (bent around several corners to clear obstructions) without problems. I just have to make sure they don't rub against wiring, fixed objects or each other.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
All Tortoise slow motion machones on the SLOW. Went to them after going through a few of the BAM!!! type old fashioned thingies BAM! Also went through some turnouts due to them. I also used to use those little Caboose thingies... Found they don't meet with the approval of the little HO people on the railroad at my place. Way too heavy for most of them to be able to throw!
Have never had a problem with any of the over 65 Tortoise Machines on the layout. I used to buy a large pack of them at a discounted price from a nearby dealer.
I also use the SPDT switches built in the Tortoise Machines to power the frogs of the turnouts. I have in one place added BiColor LEDs to show which way the points have been thrown. Only in the staging where it is difficult to see the position.
In some places I have added working (neat project I might add) Details West Switch Stands. They turn to show the position of the points when you throw the tortiose machine...
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
LION does not use DPDT switches! Too much wire is used that way. Far too expensive and complicate to wire. (Look who is talking about complicated!)
LION us SPDT switch. Center tap is the "Stinger" it goes to the switch machine. One pole is +12v dc the other pole is -12v dc. Switches are all wired in a row.
DOWN is the NORMAL position for the turnout (-12v dc to the machine) and UP is the REVERSE position for the turnout (+12v dc to the machine. The Idea is as old as the first interlocking machines, but I got the idea from naval aircraft. Wipe all of the switches down and they are in the normal position, and on or off does not matter. You can SEE what is normal and what is not.
LION look at control panel of CHERNOBLE REACTOR CONTROL ROOM. A green lamp indicated "Open" and a red lamp indicated "closed". Problem is an OPEN valve gets the same indication as an open circuit. Open valve flows an open circuit does not. Thus no matter what is happening, there are red and green lamps iluminated, and nobody can see what is normal, what is not, and what is wrong.
IF LION were to design a nuclear ractor a WHITE light would display a closed or active circuit, and a BLUE light would indicate an open or inactive circuit.
A Green Light would indicate an OPEN valve; a Yellow light would indicate a closed valve.
A RED light would indicate a PROBLEM THAT NEEDS ATTENTION; A flahing red light would inticate a problem that ineeds IMMEDIATE ATTENTION.
All lights dark indicates that you reactor has been destroyed, there is nothing that you can do for it because you are already DEAD!
Wait.... Poor LION got dis-TRACKTED,,,...
So back to the Train layout. The row of SPDT switches controls turnouts and signals, an indicator lamp on the layout diagram indicates the switch (lever) number.
See SIMPLE! LIONS *like* Simple!
Mostly switchmaster stall motors using toggle on the panel to indicate direction. DPDT panel switches throw points and frog polarity. System uses Bi-polar power supply and common ground.
Also have solenoids fired from the panel with momentary contact toggles driving latching relays to power leds to show direction of travel and to change track signals.
I don't have any manual throws except along the aisles in staging. I don't want operators reaching into the scene to throw turnouts...too many possibilites for damage to scenery etc...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
My layout is being built around the room with 2 sides being two shelves deep. I am building the back- against the wall- shelves first. They will be too far back for hand throws, and removing the front shelf would interfere with a mechanical switch rod device on the back shelf. Nearly all the switches on back shelf are Peco, with Peco under-layout switch motor controlled by push buttons on panel track diagram. I have ONE Shinohara 3-switches-in-1-peice-of-track switch that isn't made for Peco switch machines so I use Tortoises on this switch(es) only. Controlled by DPDT switch on panel track diagram.
When I get to part of layout on shelves that will NOT have something in front of them, I will use rod-connected throws. I would use finger-flick on Peco switches, but I want to way to feed the live frog positively, rather than depending on point rail contact.
I probably should have included this pic' of one of three control panels, this one being in the ISL section. The position of the turnouts are indicated by the lights to the left of the push buttons, black push buttons show a Green light for straight route and stay on and Red push buttons are to the right of a Red light for diverging route. That is all that is needed on the control panel. Crossovers are controlled by two push bottons for two switch motors and one relay. I have since fixed the apparent dullness of the green lights by painted the housing with Tamiya clear green paint.....I also cleaned it up. LOL. Still redoing whole area though.
Take Care!
Frank