cacole GP-9_Man11786 I also beleive when the average customer hears "We don't have it but we can order it for you" it leaves a bad taste in their mouths. My thought when they tell me that is, "Well, after driving 70 miles to come here and find out you don't have what I need, I can order it myself and save money in the process. I don't want you to order it for me and have to make another 70 mile one-way trip to pick it up. I'll let UPS do the driving!"
GP-9_Man11786 I also beleive when the average customer hears "We don't have it but we can order it for you" it leaves a bad taste in their mouths.
I also beleive when the average customer hears "We don't have it but we can order it for you" it leaves a bad taste in their mouths.
Unfortunately with the Current Manufacturing Model - This - I can Order it for you - is only going to get worse!
What most MFG really want to do is go DIRECT and sell to the cusomer and skip the Warehouse & B&M Hobby Shop.
First they can make more money as they don't have to discount (and I never did understand why everyone thinks they need a discount) - YOU don't get it Lionel and MTH O scale!
Then the MFG won't really have that many orders if they are only producing 1000 or so units per run - so taking the orders via e-mail and packing/sending is no big deal as any internet Hobby unit does that now
Remeber they are only selling in such low volume anymore the need for a lot of shipping personal will not cost that much now that they can sell at LIST Price instead of Discounting to everyone!
I hope this never happesn as the B&M Hobby Shop will be no more - but we are brginning to see this effect with the very small MFG of specialty products. This is the wave of the future.
And before you dismiss this notion - or think I am crazy - it wasn't that many years ago no one ever thought PRE-ORDER would be around but now it is an every day occurance!
GET READY!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
I'm wondering if MR, or Model Retailer, might consider a series of articles similar to the Bar Rescue show. It seems to me that there are similarities between failing bars that you see on that show and failing hobby shops. It's sad to see a big train store go under, although it's often something you could see coming, and something a lazy or complacent owner might have avoided. But the other side of the coin is that if the owner is lazy, complacent, or just elderly, no sort of advice is going to help.
When I went in to my local disaster-waiting-to-happen yesterday, the owner was there, plus three other employees (two of whom were the F7-what's-that variety) -- but I was the only customer in the store. There are a million things that ought to come to mind -- how to pull something out of the hundreds of thousands in inventory that isn't moving, whether to fire one or two of the jerks who can't be bothered to do much more than screw up the cash register -- but likely never will. I don't give the place much longer, and I'm actively doing contingency planning for where now to get paint, glue, styrene, Kadees (and the DCC he never carried).
When I started in this hobby there was a local hobbyshop that did trains and planes and he left in the middle 90's never to return. There is Hobbytown USA in Ft. Collins but they could care less if I walk in the door which was last week. I needed some Peco C55 track and some Evergreen black styrene. They had neither and shrugged their sholders when I mentioned that these were items that modelers are using now. So I left and ordered from Caboose Hobbies.
I have shopped for years with Caboose Hobbies on south Broadway in Denver but now days just shop on line as they are over 70 miles from my home and being retired don't drive to Denver and deal with the traffic hassel. I do use M. B. Klein and Fiffer because they take PayPal and have a inventory on hand system when I order and one will have in stock when the other doesn't etc.
Caboose Hobbies so far doesn't take PayPal which I prefer and I have mentioned that to them many times. I hope they start using PayPal sometime soon and I really prefer that method of payment. Going to Caboose Hobbies is something to behold if you have never gone there and service is the best, on line or at the store.
So, in my humble opinion it it will take a million dollars or more, (or more) for a good train stocking hobbyshop to survive in the current hobby business climate. Just the amount of train related products currently for sale is off the charts and trying to compete as a small local hobbyshop stocking all of it would be very difficult. In this age everyone who walks into the store wants it now, or will order on line and if needed badly will even overnight the shipment. I don't but some will. I do miss the local hobbyshop I shopped at many years ago. Doug
BRAKIE Dusty Solo As a generalization: when Walmart opens up, main street closes down. That's a old and well worn story line that's nearing retirement age..Main Street died when customers started shopping at the malls years ago with their lower prices..Main Street stayed business as usual instead of adopting to the newer business methods of competitive pricing. Even Wal-Mart is suffering from on line shopping as are the other big box department stores.
Dusty Solo As a generalization: when Walmart opens up, main street closes down.
That's a old and well worn story line that's nearing retirement age..Main Street died when customers started shopping at the malls years ago with their lower prices..Main Street stayed business as usual instead of adopting to the newer business methods of competitive pricing.
Even Wal-Mart is suffering from on line shopping as are the other big box department stores.
Actually, what I've seen here in South Carolina is when Wal Mart comes in, the businesses on Main street do close down but then new ones that Wal Mart doesn't compete with come in and take their place. Greenville, Beaufort, Rock Hill, Edgefield, Walterboro all have big box stores on their outskirts yet have helthy vibrant down town areas.
I would love to support my loco hobby shops but, as others have said, they never seem to have what I need in stock. I'm talking about things like ground throws, selector switch boxes. I also beleive when the average customer hears "We don't have it but we can order it for you" it leaves a bad taste in their mouths.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
BRAKIE ... What happen if somebody shoots down those drones and steals the goodies?
...
What happen if somebody shoots down those drones and steals the goodies?
That's when the gun laws will change - NRA or not. When there's BIG money involved, change happens.
Paul
Kyle ...Finally, the demise of the hobby shop will doom the hobby.
...Finally, the demise of the hobby shop will doom the hobby.
I didsagree. Already I and others do most of our buying online and at train shows. This hobby existed before the b&m hobby shops and will exist after they are gone.
The history of retailing is one of change from the early days of the colonists seeing a ship every 6 months or a year and taking what ever they brought. To now when you can order online from an array of products too vast for any store to carry and have it in 2 days - tomorrow for an extra fee.
Yes, I too miss the old hobby shops with mounds of products from years gone by sitting next to the latest stuff. But the old guys have retired or died or gone bankrupt. But just as RTR has replaced most kits, so will the new retailing replace most b&m shops.
Enjoy
cmrproductsAnd all we have is Internet (with its Drone Deliveries) it would be great to see the Internet companies slowly start to go out of business
Maybe by 2035 we will see a slow down in growth of on line shopping..
Drones..Yes,I can see it now..Order a carry out pizza and your friendly drone will deliver it.Want a 12 pack to go with that pizza? Yup..Another drone will deliver it.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE <SNIP>. Even Wal-Mart is suffering from on line shopping as are the other big box department stores.
<SNIP>.
Larry & Others
I probably won't live to see it -
BUT
Once all of the Brick & Morter stores are gone
And all we have is Internet (with its Drone Deliveries) it would be great to see the Internet companies slowly start to go out of business
BY a new method of purchasing goods - 3D Printers (Replicators) - we just won't need an online store any more! ;-0
I keep reading up on the advancements and they are talking about REPLICATING Food - Body Parts as well as Metal parts
It certainly will be interesting in the future!
Dusty SoloAs a generalization: when Walmart opens up, main street closes down.
Soo Line fanThe reason is pretty simple for those willing to believe what their eyes are telling them. The hobby is just not as popular as it once was.
Jim,I think the younger crowd is smart enough to know their best deals isn't found in a dirty shop where the grumpy owner watches everybody like they're out to rip them off or that old sad story I can get it next week at full MSRP.
Why bother when its cheaper to order on line as they already know?
There is lots of young faces in the hobby-you see 'em trackside,on you tube and face book and not in hobby shops looking at old dusty stock they have already seen dozens of time.
I'm 66 and 90% of my hobby shopping is done on line and not in a shop that has stock that's older then Moses and still at full MSRP.
It is up to you, the consumer. If you buy from internet stores, then the hobby shop is history. However, if you support your local hobby shop, then they will stay in business.
However, a few warnings: hobby shops can have what you want now, and you don't have to wait on shipping. Hobby shop owners can be really helpful and provide support for their products. Finally, the demise of the hobby shop will doom the hobby.
JOHN BRUCE IIIIs the demise of brick and mortar train stores inevitable, or can things be done to keep them going?
I think you answered your own question. Where management/ownership is disinterested, doesn't pay attention to customer needs, and work to keepeffective staff in place, things go downhill.
Where the owner is paying attention, listening to customers, stocking things his customers want, and generally paying attention to customer service, people will drive for miles to shop.
Spreciality retail is a tough business and current trends don't help. But a well-managed store in an accesible location can draw from much further than one might think. And Larry has a very good point about the internet being a tool for the shop owner and not just comptetion. It also reaches customers you wouldn't have on your own and can provide an active relationsip to the existing customer base.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
All non-service "brick & mortar" retail business will go the way of the dodo one of these days. Just look at the last Christmas shopping season: b&m sales down 30% while online sales were up 30%. Do the math.
My family's used bookstore just closed this year after 27 years in business. Borders is gone. Barnes & Noble is hanging on but for how much longer? Pretty soon you will only be able to buy an actual printed book from Target or Wal-Mart or your local drug store (and even they are not growing their business these days).
LHS's are also the "canary in the coal mine"...just like all specialty retail stores. The fact is that our population is becoming more and more used to buying online. Any product that can be purchased from a phone or a PC will take so many buyers away from b&m storefronts that the stores won't survive on those who don't buy online.
Soon (probably within a generation), the only thing left in retail will be service industries, like hair/nail salons, barbershops, restuarants, dry cleaners, and the like. It's not a good time to work in retail.
Paul A. Cutler III
As a generalization: when Walmart opens up, main street closes down.
What this indicates to me is that retailing is under going massive changes with specialized hobbie shops being some of the more notable casualties in this process.
For various reasons as noted above some train shops will continue & do well. These are the stores that are owned, run & staffed by knowlegable, energetic & enthisiastic people who understand the business they are in & the market in which they operate.
Perhaps years ago it was that a couple of guys, filled with p**s & vinigar, huge amounts of confidence could open a train shop & in a very buoyant market that in itself would carry them into a sucessful business. Now as the years have rolled by, these guys are now crusty old geezers, (as mentioned in a previous post) tired, irritable - resentful of the changes they could do nothing about. Sitting on stock that has become sale-proof because they seem to have held out for full price, that nobody wanted to pay then and sure won't be paying now.
But of the future? Well don't expect some kind of miraculous revival of the LHS - just follow the trends that have developed over the years - there's your answer right there.
Dusty.
Couple thoughts:
I think if I were going to open a store, I would locate next to or along with a couple of club layouts say an HO and N club. The layouts would not have to be that big, but interesting, detailed and well done. It would be a synergistic space, maybe with a coffee and wifi spot for the significant others. The idea is you want to create an attraction for people to come in and spend money, even on t shirts, coffee mugs, or railroadania. As others have also said, embrace an internet presence as well.
Regarding expertise: I know a thing or two in the areas I am interested in. However, for example, I have not kept track of modern equipment. As time goes on, there is more and more to know. It will be harder and harder to find people who are wide ranging experts in all modelling eras and all modelling technologies and techniques.
I am more than lucky to have 3 trustworthy hobby shops in my state of Minnesota. I honestly would rather go to a shop, find a locomotive I like, look at it, then buy it. You just can't do that on the internet. Prices of items can affect whether I buy online or in store though. I just cant buy a locomotive that is 269.99 with sound in a store when I can find it at 199.99 on an online store. Scale model supplies is my favorite shop in Minnesota, due to all of its old stock and locomotives, that are hard to come by nowadays. They also have lots of military models, airplanes, and a large slot car track open on certain days.
-Khang Lu, University of Minnesota Railroad Club
I would LOVE to support my local hobby shop more. Heck its located a mere 3 miles from where I live! But they don't stock what I mostly need. Now, I do buy some things from them such as paints, glues, putty/filler, evergreen strip, and brass tubing. But theres only so much of that type of material/supplies that I need. The scenery material(s) and rolling stock I need (for example) they don't carry and won't stock. They have offered to order it for me, but its generally more expensive and I can do it myself for cheaper. This isn't a knock on the brick and mortar hobby shop. I understand they can't cater to me and my needs exclusively. But the internet can. I have a global hobby shop open to me 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and the majority of what I need is always in stock, and generally delivered to my doorstep within 5 business days (give or take). Bottom line (and sadly I suppose) traditional hobby shops have competition from not only other local hobby shops, but shops from around the world. As much and all as I would truly love to fully support my local hobby shop, if I can save money by going elsewhere...I will.
Regards,
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
Here in Detroit, I can remember going to the hobby shop with my grandfather. It was take a number and wait. The place was crowded with kids and grown men. A 1/2 hour wait was not unusual for a Saturday in the winter, even with half a dozen guys working the counter. Lionel was the king but HO was coming on.
Later as I started a family, I took my son to the same hobby shop, not quite as busy but still going pretty good. HO was now the dominate scale.
We had at least 15 full line train shops. All gone except for 4. Trains were once sold in every department and discount store. No more. We had at least 5 magazines primarily devoted to HO, now only one is left. Train shows were every few weeks. Now down to 3-4 a year.
The reason is pretty simple for those willing to believe what their eyes are telling them. The hobby is just not as popular as it once was. Unless children somehow tire of texting and video games and discover that trains are cool, it never will.
Unfortunately, the best place to get kids interested, the LHS are gone or will be. And it really is a shame.
Jim
There is one across the river in West Springfield that use to be more of a train shop many years ago in Northampton and moved to Springfield. No idea if there is one in Springfield anymore. The below shop had to move out of Springfield some years ago when the basket ball hall of fame expanded. Two different cities.
Today, a shop has to have all kinds of hobbies to survive.
Many are not aware how much business experience and capital is needed to buy a shop where the owner is retiring.
A friend of mine does DCC installs for the owner.
http://www.pvhobbies.com/
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I suspect only hobby shops that advertise on online magazines will remain standing....
See what I did there?
Jaime
Where I live there's two hobby shops that I can choose from that are both within 20 minutes of my house. There's B & G Train World which is trains only and there is Hobbytown USA.
I think B & G Train World is able to hold on because the Chicago area has a dense enough population of model railroaders. From B & G it's only a 30 or so minute drive to the Great Midwest Train Show, the largest monthly train show in the USA.
I believe, however, that your Hobbytown USA type store is more the future of where hobby shops are headed. The key for Hobbytown is that they diversify. My Hobbytown has a decent sized model railroad department. The selection could be better, but there are all the essentials there and more. They recently added a whole new dedicated section to Woodland Scenics products within the last month.
Hobbytown has something for everyone: trains, RC Cars, Planes, puzzles, toys and more. I think they're able to make a better profit than a trains-only store so they have a better chance at survival.
Even though they have diversification, there are still people there who specialize. There's one gentleman there who knows about model railroading and there's another guy who knows about the RC planes. Even though it's more of a general store you can still find someone who knows what they are talking about for model railroading.
Long live the J!
IRONROOSTER Hobby shops are dying. I've watched the number decline in Northern Virginia for over 40 years. The train oriented ones that are left are mostly 3-rail O gauge. There are a few general hobby shops such as Hobby Town around, but they too are decreasing. I think the future is hobby shows and Internet shops plus a few very large shops in areas with lots of hobbyists. Paul
Hobby shops are dying. I've watched the number decline in Northern Virginia for over 40 years. The train oriented ones that are left are mostly 3-rail O gauge. There are a few general hobby shops such as Hobby Town around, but they too are decreasing. I think the future is hobby shows and Internet shops plus a few very large shops in areas with lots of hobbyists.
Why would I wait until Saturday to drive from Alexandria to Fairfax, Chantilly, or Manassass and then find out they don't have what I discovered I need on Monday when I can order Monday night from MB Klein and have it on Friday?
There used to be six train-related hobby shops in Tucson, Arizona years ago -- now there's only one. All the others closed up shop when the owners wanted to retire and no one would purchase the business, so they sold off everything and locked the doors.
A member of our model railroad club who moved here from the Chicago area a few years ago still has frequent contact with hobby shop owners that he used to patronize. Some of them said they no longer sell trains, but have switched to radio control aircraft. They say people are continually crashing their planes and coming in to buy parts or complete new planes, but when a model train crashes nothing is so damaged that it has to be replaced, so they can make a lot more profit off of model planes.
If the shop clings to antiquated hobby shop business mode then they will closed.
If the shop owner inters the computer age with a on line presence and uses a e-bay store to dump his old stock then the future will be bright.
When I look at very old issues of MR or RMC that have the lists of hobby shops by city, I am often surprised by the number of shops that were around in 1955 in Milwaukee that were gone by 1965. Indeed a case can be made that maybe the biggest die off of shops was in that decade, but each decade since has seen shops come and go, mostly go. And the big change from 1955 to 1965 was the sheer increase in the amount of model railroad merchandise that was available. It may have been possible in 1955 to almost literally have a "complete" shop. That was not so by 1965 and I think it has gotten less and less so every decade since. Most hobby shops occupy a space that would be totally filled if all they did was concentrate on carrying only structure kits for example, there are so many out there in the popular scales.
I can remember two Milwaukee shops that by the 1970s were almost like museums. They had detail parts for sale that came from an era when there wasn't much detail, but there they were, selling at a full list price that frankly was never going to be paid, and thus valuable shelf space was dedicated to more or less unsalable goods. Most of their other inventory was pretty old too -- lots of the old Walthers stamped metal passenger car kits including a few so old it was before Walthers added rivet detail which I think was maybe 1948! I think there were many shops that were run with that kind of attitude towards inventory (sell it until it's sold) and keeping up with the times that were hit right in the gut by the "sudden" advent of DCC as well as the "sudden" preference for more accuracy and less tolerance for pizza cutter flanges and generic diesels in generic paint schemes. Those two shops never really accepted N scale as a major scale either. Both were run by crusty geezers.
I also remember a wonderful shop in Milwaukee that was trains only, run by a crew of expert young modelers and real idealists. They sneered at Athearn blue box and stocked mounds of more complex kits as well as the most superb detail parts aimed at the guys who spend a fortune redetailing a diesel with new cabs, anti climbers, fans, vents, just the right lift rings, and all the rest. They also had tons of decals, mountains of Floquil and other paints, because that was the kind of modeling they did. And when they went out of business and everything was 70% off the shelves were cleared of what Athearn they had, and all the LifeLike grassmats that they made fun of were all gone too -- ah, but all those detail parts and decals and Floquil bottles were sitting there unsold at almost give away prices because they failed to realize that they themselves represented the solid core of local guys who modeled in that intense way -- and they all got big discounts because they were the owners!
So it is possible for the hobby shop owners to fail both by being way behind and way in front of their customer base in terms of sophistication and being up to date.
I doubt if it was ever very easy, or very profitable, to run a train-oriented hobby shop. But I do suspect inventory decisions were much easier 40 years ago than they are today. Back then the customer was more likely to be pleased by what they did have in stock than irked by what they didn't.
Dave Nelson
GP-9_Man11786Great Escapes consolidated operations into their Greenville store
Russell
Bundy74while one in Springfield is good for paint, styrene, and other supplies.
What is the name of that one?
Until recently we had three Hobby Shops in the Greenville-Spartanburg area Great Escape of Greenville, Great Escape of Spartanburg and Blue Ridge Hobbies. The just a few months ago, the teo Great Escapes consolidated operations into their Greenville store. Blue Ridge has a great selection but keeps very odd hours. In fact, Blue Ridge has opened an attraction called thr Minature World of Trains in Downtown Greenville and plans to merge the hobby shop into it.
One thing working against hobby shops today is the lack of product availability. Most model manufacturers have gone the "We'll make it if we get nough pre-orders" business model we all know and love. Combine that with things like the Atlas track shortage and you have a seius problem. Empty shelves and nothing to fill them with.