Brick and Mortar Hobby Shops -- Dying Out, or Salvageable?

[DanOH]

E-L man tom

 

 

BMR777

Where I live there's two hobby shops that I can choose from that are both within 20 minutes of my house.  There's B & G Train World which is trains only and there is Hobbytown USA.

I think B & G Train World is able to hold on because the Chicago area has a dense enough population of model railroaders.  From B & G it's only a 30 or so minute drive to the Great Midwest Train Show, the largest monthly train show in the USA.

I believe, however, that your Hobbytown USA type store is more the future of where hobby shops are headed.  The key for Hobbytown is that they diversify.  My Hobbytown has a decent sized model railroad department.  The selection could be better, but there are all the essentials there and more.  They recently added a whole new dedicated section to Woodland Scenics products within the last month.

Hobbytown has something for everyone: trains, RC Cars, Planes, puzzles, toys and more.  I think they're able to make a better profit than a trains-only store so they have a better chance at survival.

Even though they have diversification, there are still people there who specialize.  There's one gentleman there who knows about model railroading and there's another guy who knows about the RC planes.  Even though it's more of a general store you can still find someone who knows what they are talking about for model railroading.

 

 

 

 

I, over the years, have moved from Ohio (in the 1990's), in which the Dayton-Cincinnati area had no fewer than 5 or 6 great stores for trains, pretty much trains only; to Denver (1998-2006), Colorado, which has two great stores right in town, Caboose (of coruse) and Mizells. There were others, but these were the main ones, not to mention the one or two in both Colorado Springs and Ft. Collins. Then, in 2006 moved to Boise, Idaho; there are no hobby stores here except the two Hobbytown USA stores, which have a very poor selection of Model RR inventory; all basically at MSRP as well. They do still, however, have some scratch building supplies that I cannot get at Michaels or Hobby Lobby. The last true train item I bought from Hobbytown USA was back about 3 years ago, when I purchased an Atlas C424 for $100.00; that was the last "good deal" that I found there. There is one other store that bought the inventory of a local hobby store owner that passed away years ago, but he has no idea (nor does he seemingly want to know) what he purchased. He has more of an interest in R/C cars and so that is what he spends his money on to replace his inventory. There is a local guy here in town, however, who buys and sells Model RR stuff out of his home. He goes to train stores, buys whole lots at estate sales and has many connections around the country, including other hobby stores where he'll buy in large lots and then pass the lower prices on to those who buy. He sells most of his wares at train shows, which are not local; we haven't had a train show here in about 4 years. I can say that I have been spoiled from living back in Ohio. I surely enjoyed stopping at a train store on my way home from Cincinnati or some other place in the area after doing business at my regular job during the day.  

 

 

I feel your pain. I live in Boise as well and we never get any train shows (there was a little one in Nampa a few weeks ago, well more of a swap meet). Hobbytown on Cole Rd got some new stuff in but their inventory is sad at best. R/C seems to be the big thing around here. If you haven't already, subscribe to their emails because the frequently send out $15 off $50 coupons that you can use online or in-store. 

I'm glad you mentioned that other place in Nampa because I've seen some adverts on craigslist about him. I had a feeling that the train stuff for him was strictly a side business until all of the inventory is gone. Luckily Boise seems to be a pretty good mail hub beings I seem to get everything I order online very quickly. Stay strong fellow Boisean! 

[16-567D3A]

       ,    , 

[BRAKIE]

Actually I was answering #6: 6.  Hobby shop owners dying and retiring.

Harold closed shop and retired.

As far as shops closing 1-10 applies.

[richhotrain]

NP2626

 

 

BRAKIE

 

richhotrain

6. Hobby shop owners dying and retiring

 

 

He threw in the towel at age 74..Harold said After 46 years his old bones was tired and therefore he's going to  retire and that he did...

 

 

 

Brakie, who is Harold?  I don't see where Rich mentioned any Harold in his posts!

 

Larry meant to put Harold under 

10.  Other reasons.

Rich

Edit:  In other words, in response to my question, So, what do you suppose did the LHS in?,  Larry's answer is, Harold did the LHS in.   

[NP2626]

BRAKIE

 

richhotrain

6. Hobby shop owners dying and retiring

 

 

He threw in the towel at age 74..Harold said After 46 years his old bones was tired and therefore he's going to  retire and that he did...

 

Brakie, who is Harold?  I don't see where Rich mentioned any Harold in his posts!

[NP2626]

I doubt this hobby is dying, look at all the new products being reviewed in MR!  Also, the Radio Control hobby is doing gang busters.  The hobbies are changing, without doubt.  However, I don't see them dying out. 

 

[BRAKIE]

richhotrain

6. Hobby shop owners dying and retiring

He threw in the towel at age 74..Harold said After 46 years his old bones was tired and therefore he's going to  retire and that he did..

[E-L man tom]

BMR777

Where I live there's two hobby shops that I can choose from that are both within 20 minutes of my house.  There's B & G Train World which is trains only and there is Hobbytown USA.

I think B & G Train World is able to hold on because the Chicago area has a dense enough population of model railroaders.  From B & G it's only a 30 or so minute drive to the Great Midwest Train Show, the largest monthly train show in the USA.

I believe, however, that your Hobbytown USA type store is more the future of where hobby shops are headed.  The key for Hobbytown is that they diversify.  My Hobbytown has a decent sized model railroad department.  The selection could be better, but there are all the essentials there and more.  They recently added a whole new dedicated section to Woodland Scenics products within the last month.

Hobbytown has something for everyone: trains, RC Cars, Planes, puzzles, toys and more.  I think they're able to make a better profit than a trains-only store so they have a better chance at survival.

Even though they have diversification, there are still people there who specialize.  There's one gentleman there who knows about model railroading and there's another guy who knows about the RC planes.  Even though it's more of a general store you can still find someone who knows what they are talking about for model railroading.

 

I, over the years, have moved from Ohio (in the 1990's), in which the Dayton-Cincinnati area had no fewer than 5 or 6 great stores for trains, pretty much trains only; to Denver (1998-2006), Colorado, which has two great stores right in town, Caboose (of coruse) and Mizells. There were others, but these were the main ones, not to mention the one or two in both Colorado Springs and Ft. Collins. Then, in 2006 moved to Boise, Idaho; there are no hobby stores here except the two Hobbytown USA stores, which have a very poor selection of Model RR inventory; all basically at MSRP as well. They do still, however, have some scratch building supplies that I cannot get at Michaels or Hobby Lobby. The last true train item I bought from Hobbytown USA was back about 3 years ago, when I purchased an Atlas C424 for $100.00; that was the last "good deal" that I found there. There is one other store that bought the inventory of a local hobby store owner that passed away years ago, but he has no idea (nor does he seemingly want to know) what he purchased. He has more of an interest in R/C cars and so that is what he spends his money on to replace his inventory. There is a local guy here in town, however, who buys and sells Model RR stuff out of his home. He goes to train stores, buys whole lots at estate sales and has many connections around the country, including other hobby stores where he'll buy in large lots and then pass the lower prices on to those who buy. He sells most of his wares at train shows, which are not local; we haven't had a train show here in about 4 years. I can say that I have been spoiled from living back in Ohio. I surely enjoyed stopping at a train store on my way home from Cincinnati or some other place in the area after doing business at my regular job during the day.  

[andrechapelon]

mlehman

 

 

NP2626

At the same time, there are many manufacturers that seem to be successful as noticed by the diversification seen within the pages of this magazine.

 

 

I think if one is somehwat obessessed with the "health of the hobby" question, looking at what's being offered or available is a far better gauge than looking at the narrow question of the health of the LHS. With 20 years of the internet and the vastly changed retail ennironment, worrying about the health of the hobby based on reading the tea leaves on the health of the LHS is about like worrying about the future of automobiles by looking at Edsel sales...

 

I would have gone with trying to devine the health of the automobile industry based on the declining numbers of Packard dealerships, but your idea works, too.

Andre

[mlehman]

NP2626

At the same time, there are many manufacturers that seem to be successful as noticed by the diversification seen within the pages of this magazine.

I think if one is somehwat obessessed with the "health of the hobby" question, looking at what's being offered or available is a far better gauge than looking at the narrow question of the health of the LHS. With 20 years of the internet and the vastly changed retail ennironment, worrying about the health of the hobby based on reading the tea leaves on the health of the LHS is about like worrying about the future of automobiles by looking at Edsel sales...

[NP2626]

Brick and Mortar Hobby Shops -- Dying Out, or Salvageable?

I have not read all the posts to this thread; so, I don't know if there is a consensis on this topic, or not. 

My opinion is that Hobby Shops are certainly loosing ground.  When I talk to people who own these types of businesses their opinion is that it is tough to make a living from the hobby business at this time.  Most are very diversified in what they sell and the idea of making it focused on one part of the hobby, alone is a foolish idea!  However, there are some hobby shops I visit that seem to be doing gang buster business.  Don't have any idea about how well their bottom line is; but, there are crowds of people in the stores and most walk out having paid for something.  These are shops in large metro areas like the twin Cities.  Shops in the smaller metro areas like Fargo, ND are having more of a struggle, so my feeling is a hobby shop needs a large metro area to be successful and doing online business is likely a good idea.   

At the same time, there are many manufacturers that seem to be successful as noticed by the diversification seen within the pages of this magazine.

[riogrande5761]

BRAKIE

Those of us that stood behind the counter or enjoyed talking with the owner will know something ... 

The social aspects of the LHS could be enjoyable, kind of like mans version of womens gatherings, but if money wasn't flowing in substantial quantity, the mens social club still goes out of business - money still makes the world go round.  I had a train buddy in my old college town who ran a coffee shop - even built a train track around the back counter which looped around into the back and back out.  Students would come in and read books, do homework etc. and hang out, but not much money was spent - just a place to chill with little monitary cost.  I don't think the shop survived for more than a few years.

.... the lookers that looks at the newest releases and then rushes home to buy them on line.

That may have been true back in the 1990's.  But these days people see those items on the internet long before they show up in the LHS (assuming you still have one) and so you can buy them the minute they hit the online stores shelf, which often get them before you have the chance to lay eyes on them in a brick & mortar store.  Often the large high res photo's of the items we see online give us a better look on our computer screens than if we were their in person, having to put on our reading glasses to see the detail in real life!  Times have truly changed and it's just a different world.  For many, the LHS is like record players a fond memory of the past that is largely now an anachronism.  In business terms, generally a way to lose a lot of money while going slowly insane and bitter, judging by the feed back from many owners.

[SBX]

I live in the UK and train travel is definately on the increase here. I have a friend who lives in Windsor Locks Connecticut who has to travel to NY and Washington DC quite regularly. It was my thrill to get the New Haven from Windsor Locks, change at New Haven and travel to NY - all by train.

He used to fly to Washington DC from Bradley but he now catches the train that comes down from Springfield MA and goes via NY all the way to Washington. It takes six hours but he gets to sit on the train all the way, plug in his laptop, use his phone, have a meal and a beer etc. He says that it is infinately more comfortable than going by plane!

[NEMMRRC]

All of the above. 

Jaime

[richhotrain]

LOL, Soo Line Fan, I hadn't thought of that one.   

Rich

[Soo Line fan]

Other lack of a customer base

[richhotrain]

BRAKIE

 

 

BATMAN

I can honestly say that I think anyone that has not run a business has no idea what is involved as far as all that is involved. It is the typical "you don't know what you don't know" situation.

 

 

Those of us that stood behind the counter or enjoyed talking with the owner will know something about the business-the good,bad and down right ugly.That ugly covers a lot of ground from modelers stealing KD couplers,paint and other small  items to the lookers that looks at the newest releases and then rushes home to buy them on line.

 

So, what do you suppose did the LHS in?

1.  Too much shoplifting 

2.  Lower pricing on the Internet

3.  Better product availabilty on the Internet

4.  Bad customer service by crabby or indifferent staff

5.  Poorly trained and ill-informed staff

6.  Hobby shop owners dying and retiring

7.  Poor cash management practices by the owner

8.  Location of the shop

9.  Appearance and maintenance of the shop

10.  Other reasons

Rich

[BRAKIE]

BATMAN

I can honestly say that I think anyone that has not run a business has no idea what is involved as far as all that is involved. It is the typical "you don't know what you don't know" situation.

Those of us that stood behind the counter or enjoyed talking with the owner will know something about the business-the good,bad and down right ugly.That ugly covers a lot of ground from modelers stealing KD couplers,paint and other small  items to the lookers that looks at the newest releases and then rushes home to buy them on line.

[Burlington Northern #24]

I have to agree with Batman, I don't know what I don't know about running a hobby store but this thread brings me back to something TK wrote in one of his Train of Thoughts articles. To summarize it because I can't remember the specifics, Humans don't like change. Modelers should know this as our hobby is constantly changing, if B&M Hobby shops are going then there's nothing we can do about it. It's simply the nature of the beast, I don't have an actual train devoted store within an hours drive to me. I'm making it a goal though to get to The Hobby Smith in Portland and Tacoma Trains in Tacoma.

[cacole]

I haven't been to either one due to the travel distance involved, but two model train hobby shops have opened in the Phoenix, Arizona area in the past year or two.

 

[BATMAN]

richhotrain

Does anyone open a brick and mortar hobby shop anymore, that is, one devoted to model railroading?

I doubt it.

I know of a couple of MRR shops that added internet buying to their operation and within ten years closed the store and moved into warehouses to do only internet selling. One lost me as a customer though because even though they were close enough to drop by to pick something up, they insisted I get everything shipped to me.

Pacific Western Rail ( an internet only business) is close to me and welcome anyone to wander the isles of the warehouse. All they ask is you put anything you look at back in exactly the same spot so they can find it. Considering how much is there, it is understandable.

I can honestly say that I think anyone that has not run a business has no idea what is involved as far as all that is involved. It is the typical "you don't know what you don't know" situation.

 

 

[richhotrain]

Does anyone open a brick and mortar hobby shop anymore, that is, one devoted to model railroading?

I wonder when was the last time that a model railroading local hobby shop opened anywhere in the United States.

Rich

[HaroldA]

I would like to think that brick and mortar shops are still salvageable - however, and some will disagree, sometimes the LHS bears some responsibility for its own demise.  Case in point - I live 4.5 miles from the closest hobby shop - Riders.  To put it bluntly their customer service is atrocious.  I have actually been told that 'old man Shinohara isn't making product any longer' and yet I can always buy it at MB Klein.  The last time I was in there, the person behind the train counter was so busy looking at the computer that he never came out to help me with anything - so I walked out and ordered what I needed on line.  My point is that unless a place is willing to give reasonable customer service that adds to the problem of staying in business - at least in this area.

I will still go in that shop but believe me, I have very low expectations.

[mlehman]

NEMMRRC

doubt the modeling hobby will die. I hear large train shows in Japan command attendance in the tens of thousands. The UK has some 4 mainstream model railroading magazines. What has changed is the world is getting smaller due to the Internet age. You need to start looking beyond your back yard for what's happening in the hobby.

Good point, Jaime. The world of American model railroading extends far overseas now, from those who make much of what we use here to the thousands of indivduals who prefer modeling American railroads. If you think locos are too expensive here, go to Europe. Yet it's selling some of the same stuff to those markets that now build a large enough customer base for vendors to profit from.

Like all those kids on their tablets and phones who'll never crack this forum open, yet are deeply involved in the hobby, this is something those who see nothing but death and destruction miss. It's a vibrant growing hobby if you look at it in the global perspective. Sure, it'll never be as popular as video gaming or music, but I see no sign that the hobby is on death's doorstep, even if some of us are.

[kenny dorham]

Have you been in a "Music Store" lately.? If you can even find one, they are usually a pile of crap.

Radio Shack.? They use to be  a great place to buy all order of electronics and parts.....now they are a crappy, glorified cell phone store.

Remember Drug Stores.....with a soda fountain and a lunch counter.?

Remember how great Toy Stores use to be.? etc etc etc.

It is not just The Hobby Store.....remember how great the local Hardware store was.? Gun Stores.....they use to be awesome...the list is long

Generic crap is the call of the day. There will always be a niche success story, but by and large, we live in a society that sees Walmart as a great thing. When that represents the majority.....you get what we have.

Amazon is probably the new Hobby Store.

 

 

[SWFX]

I dont care for seeing these posts as one seems to appear every 1-2 months. Yes, hard stand shops are going out of buisness, we are all tracking this. It's called the internet. If you dont like ordering from the internet, you need to get use to it as it may be the only option for some of us here in a few years. Hel, we may all might be posting "support your internet hobby shop" in the future!

Is the hobby in trouble? NO. Consolidation of companies happens in every industry and there are people still out there buying trains to the point all of these conventions keep happening and companies are producing new and better products.

Do i enjoy going to local shops....yes, its more personnal and entertaining however; as i live in Arizona....dont find too much in the way of southeastern equipment on the shelves. Still stop at Flagstaff Hobbies and An Affair with Trains every chance i get (plus AAWTs has an online shop).

[tin can]

-E-C-Mills

After reading all these great responses, I'm wondering why anyone would want to open a brick and morter store in the first place?  If you really want to just sell stuff and make money, there is the internet.  You dont need a shop to do that, just a big garage.

But there are plenty of online retailers.  What might make you special is manufacturing some of your own stuff.  3D printing.

 

 

It used to be very difficult to obtain model railroad products from distributors or manufacturers without a brick and mortar location.  Standard requirements included some or all of the following: photos of the storefront; copy of the yellow pages ad; sales tax certificate; bank account information; and utility bills in the store name.

I know of train show dealers who skirted these rules by either not telling the truth or by piggybacking on the backs of established retailers.  

Even now; Horizon has pretty stringent requirements for establishing new accounts.  So good luck with getting Athearn for your garage hobby shop.

But there are always distributors who are more interested in the amount of product they move than who they move it to...

[-E-C-Mills]

After reading all these great responses, I'm wondering why anyone would want to open a brick and morter store in the first place?  If you really want to just sell stuff and make money, there is the internet.  You dont need a shop to do that, just a big garage.

But there are plenty of online retailers.  What might make you special is manufacturing some of your own stuff.  3D printing.

 

[One Track Mind]

The truths I was attempting to speak about are hard to put into words on this forum. For one thing, and I already violated this once... I don't want to disrespect our hosts by naming names of their advertisers, in the past I've believed that is bad form. On the other hand, if people really want to know why model train shops are disappearing... it's hard to tell things as they are without fully describing certain situations.

Another thing is, of course dealing with the public is not easy. But if you are not a people person, then you are in the wrong business. For all the horror stories that I could tell about model train customers, it needs to be said that at least 90% of my customers were golden and the best people, and I miss visiting with them.

Also, over the past year, over and over, I've told myself the cliches... "change is inevitable"..."there are no guarantees in life"..."no one laments the loss of the buggy whip stores these days."

But reading the complaints about hobby shops, almost none of them applied to my store. And toward the end, I still couldn't make a living out of it, like I had at one time. The LHS may not have lasted until I retired anyway, but I learned a lot and did everything I could to offer a good train shop for folks, and it wasn't enough. A couple things I could have done better (maybe) but it was the outside detrimental influences that hastened my closure. 

Those include previously mentioned manufacturers and distributors, which are hard to discuss on here. Also, some issues involving politics which I am certainly not going to bring up on here. But some problems were from a small segment of consumers, and it only takes a few to mess things up. And most of us don't want to hear that we are not the perfect customer, including me.

But people ask why the LHS is disappearing. I answered. The hobby is not dead, will never be truly dead... but the glory days are over. It has changed to a huge degree in the last 15 years, and as a model railroader first and a (former) store owner second, I don't see some of these changes as being healthy for the hobby.

 

[cacole]

I had two rather disappointing experiences with "Local Hobby Shops" a few years ago:

One in Tucson, Arizona, 70 miles west, was advertised in Model Railroader (by LBF) as an LBF dealer.  At the time, I was looking for some LBF wheelsets, so I went there.  A man who appeared to be over 80 years old was sitting behind the counter half asleep.  After looking around and finding no LBF products, I asked him where the LBF wheelsets were located.  He said he had never heard of the company and had no idea what I was looking for, or why anyone would advertise that he had such a product.

The second experience involved a hobby shop in Willcox, Arizona, 60 miles east, that was advertised as being at a certain location.  The location turned out to be a very rundown, vacant building.  After driving around town, I spotted his new location.  The store was filled with sewing, knitting, and doll house items, but only one very old and dust-covered Bachmann HO scale Christmas train set that was around 10 years old and priced at 3 times it's original MSRP, let alone actual value.  Willcox is right on the Union Pacific Sunset Route main line.  I asked the owner why he didn't have model trains, and was told that no one in the Willcox area had any interest in trains.  With the price he was asking for the old Bachmann set, I could understand why.  It was obvious that if there were any model railroaders in the area, they were shopping on the Internet or driving to Tucson instead of patronizing him.

I don't think either shop is still in business.

 

[riogrande5761]

One Track Mind

Bob - you and I both know people don't want to hear the truth, "they can't handle the truth." So the messenger gets shot. Which is why I have avoided commenting a great deal on this topic until now.

But is it the job of the consumers to want to hear the truth in any market - maybe sometimes?  But by and large, consumers in any product field buy what they like/want/need and usually try to get it at the best price they can - unless they are on some kind of moral compaign to by products not made in sweat shops or a similar cause, which is probably a tiny fraction.  There is an old adage I heard in the 60's and 70's and still believe it is largely true, "the customer is always right". In general, it's the job of any business man to find a way to please the customer so they spend their money on their product.  If they can't do that, such as in the case of an LHS, it's time to find a different career.  I had to do that when the harsh realities of being an environmental geologist was that there wasn't enough work to keep me employed full time anymore in the late 1990's, so after some hard knocks I had to change careers too.  So I can sympathize with the LHS owner in that regard.

Like in other markets, changes have forced certain segments to shrink or close down while other avenues may open up.  I imagine there are a lot of hard copy newspaper or magazine etc. writers/editers who are feeling much the same way as the hobby shop owner.  They are in a losing battle.  

But, with my store closed and nothing to lose, maybe it is time someone points out the brutally honest parts of running a model train shop in this environment.

It is true that many hobbiests don't understand why brick and mortar hobby shops are dropping like flies - so maybe topics like this will be an education for them so they don't have unrealistic ideas or false wishes about the LHS.

[GP-9_Man11786]

richhotrain

 

 

IRONROOSTER

What I see keeping the numbers down is lack of a growth path into model trains as they get to be 7, 8, ...12 years old.  These are the ages when kids love to build things.  But that's another thread.

 

 

 

 

Gotta agree with you there. 

 

My 5 year old grandson loves trains.  Thomas the Train, then a small Bachmann EZ-track train set, my layout.

But my 12 year old grandson and my 16 year old grandson had those same experiences.  But, once they got around 6, 7, or 8 years old, that was it.  No more trains, no more model railroading.

Me and my buddies were still running our American Flyer and Lionel trains when we were in high school.

Times change.  Model railroading is a dying hobby.

Rich

 

We have several volunteers at the Hub City Railroad Museum who are in that 12-16 age group who are avid modle railroaders. Part of the problem is that we don't let kids be kids these days. We load their schedules up with sports and other activities. When they're not doing that they're buried under mountains of schoolwork.

When I was ten years old, my friends and I built small HO layout and enjoyed it. These days kids that age would have their spare time booked solid with sports leagues and have the parents pressuring them to the point the game is no longer fun. Maybe the hoby would be doing better if we'd stop making our kids grow up too fast.

[richhotrain]

IRONROOSTER

What I see keeping the numbers down is lack of a growth path into model trains as they get to be 7, 8, ...12 years old.  These are the ages when kids love to build things.  But that's another thread.

 

Gotta agree with you there. 

My 5 year old grandson loves trains.  Thomas the Train, then a small Bachmann EZ-track train set, my layout.

But my 12 year old grandson and my 16 year old grandson had those same experiences.  But, once they got around 6, 7, or 8 years old, that was it.  No more trains, no more model railroading.

Me and my buddies were still running our American Flyer and Lionel trains when we were in high school.

Times change.  Model railroading is a dying hobby.

Rich

[IRONROOSTER]

richhotrain

 ...Kids don't care as much about trains as their fathers and grandfathers did.

Rich

 

Actually, kids love trains. My 3 year old grandson loves Thomas the Tank.  In fact I have 2 Thomas tables in my living room for to play with when he comes over - and he bugs his parents to go  "play trains".

I see Thomas in the toy stores, the craft stores, the department stores, online, at train shows, etc.  The stuff is very popular.  Also, most toy stores have a Thomas set up for the kids to play with.

My 3 year old grandson loves to look at my train books and compare his engines to the pictures.  He knows the difference between diesels and steam locomotives as well as many of the major parts of the steam locomotive.

He loves to go ride on trains.

How many of the kids will go on to be model railroaders?  I don't know but some will.

What I see keeping the numbers down is lack of a growth path into model trains as they get to be 7, 8, ...12 years old.  These are the ages when kids love to build things.  But that's another thread.

Enjoy

Paul

[richhotrain]

NEMMRRC

I doubt the modeling hobby will die. I hear large train shows in Japan command attendance in the tens of thousands. The UK has some 4 mainstream model railroading magazines. 

What has changed is the world is getting smaller due to the Internet age. You  

That depends upon what you mean by "your back yard".  

If you mean the United States as your back yard versus Japan, UK, or Continental Europe, if the hobby is alive and vibrant overseas, that is likely because train travel is superior to air travel.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2011/10/31/dont-fly-why-trains-are-the-best-way-to-travel-overseas/

In the U.S., my feeling is that the advent of air travel began the doom of model railroading as a hobby.  Traveling by train has become a distant memory.  Kids don't care as much about trains as their fathers and grandfathers did.

Rich

[NEMMRRC]

I doubt the modeling hobby will die. I hear large train shows in Japan command attendance in the tens of thousands. The UK has some 4 mainstream model railroading magazines. 

What has changed is the world is getting smaller due to the Internet age. You need to start looking beyond your back yard for what's happening in the hobby. 

Right now I understand there are no major craftsman structure makers (like Bar Mills or Fos or Campbell) in the UK. There's an opportunity for you... Why folks in Europe even enjoy modeling North American prototype railroads. 

Jaime

[BRAKIE]

richhotrain

The Internet didn't replace the LHS or drive it out of business. it just filled a void.

Ask any serious gamer the best place to buy games and he will give a on line store web address.

Ask young modelers where's the best hobby shop and he will give you the addy of his favorite on line shop.

The hobby is far from dying..The old dinosaurs fail to realize we are living in a computer world and the days of Saturday morning trips to the LHS that's  full of old dusty stock is over or gasping its last breath...Train shows will follow due to the near MSRP many dealers are demanding on old box worn stock or worst asking today's MSRP for older blue and gold box P2K locomotives.

[richhotrain]

Wow, this thread not only evokes a lot of responses, it evokes a lot of long responses.

The only thing different about this thread from all the other threads on the same issue is that this thread is the latest thread on the issue.

The issue: Brick and Mortar Hobby Shops - - Dying Out or Salvageable?

Well, that's real easy.  They are dying out, nearly dead.

Local Hobby Shop (LHS) ?

I live in the southwest suburbs of Chicago.

There is nothing local that even resembles a LHS.

There are no brick and mortar structures that cater to anything even resembling a hobby of any type.

Shop?  Just places like Dunkin Donuts, Subway, Verizon, Batteries Plus.  No model railroading shops.

The Internet didn't replace the LHS or drive it out of business.  it just filled a void.  

The reason that the LHS died is that its one time large customer base passed on to that Great Layout in the Sky.  There are few of us left.

If it weren't for the Internet, the hobby itself would already be dead because there would be no place to buy anything.

Rich

 

[BRAKIE]

One Track Mind

But one of them was my own pervasive bad attitude, an attitude that I did not have at one time.

Having worked on the other side of the counter I can understand that..Customers can be a royal pain.

However.

Nothing sours me faster then a shop owner being a grump or know it all..I came to spend money,so,be nice if you(general speak) want my cash and want me to make return trips to spend more cash in your shop.

The shop owner should know in today's computerized shopping world I don't need him as much as he needs me as a repeat buying customer.A cold fact overlooked by some shop owners.

So,let me be as I start picking goodies from the shelves and don't start ringing the sale up as I stack my selections on the side of your counter or I will get the feeling I'm being shoved  out the door before I can gather the rest of my purchases and that means I won't be back since it would appear you don't need me as a customer.

[One Track Mind]

mlehman

One Track Mind,

Not sure what truth can't be handled here. I made a point of emphasizing my general agreement with what Bob said, but that might have been missed. I just thought the way it was expressed was counterproductive.

I really don't think there's any single "truth" here anyway. LHS that close their doors do so for a lot of reasons, MOST of them having not so much directly to do with the "health of the hobbty". Someone already mentioned that a majority of small businesses that start up fail - and the LHS is no exception. That's from all sorts of basic flaws, from being undercapitalized to misjudging the market they serve to health problems.

This discussion is still worth having, because changes in the industry have had a significant impact in the last couple of decades. That transition alone is repsonsible for hundeds of casualities. But it's rare that even this is exclusively the reason for a LHS closing.

 

 

 

Agreed. At some point after I closed my store, I identified five reasons why it was time for me to close what at one time had been a growing and successful store. Some of those five reasons I can't discuss on this forum. But one of them was my own pervasive bad attitude, an attitude that I did not have at one time.

People ask for opinions about the health of the hobby from store owners, or in my case... recent store owners. So I stated some, and of course we see that some don't agree.

The truths, as I saw them in my store, have been debated on here and other forums. I post things based on fact, not opinion, and yet some people still don't want to hear about how trends are hurting this hobby.

Ultimately it's not about the loss of one store. The loss of hundreds of stores is a problem, though. I was a model railroader long before I was a store owner. And I am still a model railroader. It's a great hobby, and for that reason, some of the trends I saw from behind the counter are very worrisome for the long-term health of the hobby.

But if I gave anyone the impression that today's hobby business practices are the only reason I went out of business, then I need to clarify that is not the case. But it was the biggest reason.

[woodman]

Do know, all he said was they are going to add a 1,500 sq ft addition. They can only go one way, unless they decide to go up, which I doubt. If you have been in Lins or Hennings you know how tight the space is.

[mlehman]

Bob,

I know that things don't always translate well online. I doubt you intended to be so off-putting, as I can sense you're making a contribution. It's just that everyone of us has something that's useful to contribute to the discussion, even if we disagree with it.

Since this is a forum with folks of all levels of experience in the hobby, it can be tremendously discouraging for new and lesser experienced members to hear they just don't know what they're talking about. And this discussion wasn't just about what LHS owners think, but how their customers experience reflects both the good and bad. I think we need to accept that these can be very different, yet at the same time both be honest and true, even as they often diverge. The world is never exactly how we see it as individuals, but how millions of us see it.

 

One Track Mind,

Not sure what truth can't be handled here. I made a point of emphasizing my general agreement with what Bob said, but that might have been missed. I just thought the way it was expressed was counterproductive.

I really don't think there's any single "truth" here anyway. LHS that close their doors do so for a lot of reasons, MOST of them having not so much directly to do with the "health of the hobbty". Someone already mentioned that a majority of small businesses that start up fail - and the LHS is no exception. That's from all sorts of basic flaws, from being undercapitalized to misjudging the market they serve to health problems.

This discussion is still worth having, because changes in the industry have had a significant impact in the last couple of decades. That transition alone is repsonsible for hundeds of casualities. But it's rare that even this is exclusively the reason for a LHS closing.

 

[One Track Mind]

Bob - you and I both know people don't want to hear the truth, "they can't handle the truth." So the messenger gets shot. Which is why I have avoided commenting a great deal on this topic until now. But, with my store closed and nothing to lose, maybe it is time someone points out the brutally honest parts of running a model train shop in this environment.

[cmrproducts]

mlehman

Yeah, I'm a bit leery of much of the boilerplate "retail in 10 easy steps" advice here. As a customer, when I shop I already have a pretty good idea about what I want and how it all fits the budget. It's a difficult hobby to pin down in terms of what your customers want. It's not just a boxcar, for instance, but a 1952 40' car from a specific RR with a specific road number. Very hard to stock in anticipation of that. But somehow that's what a successful LHS has to do these days. You can only sell so much impulse-buy items. But it's often the case that things like rail joiners, paint, styrene, etc are also staples of the hobby and frequently unavailable and not restocked as well as it could be (given availability at wholesale, of course.)

 

 

cmrproducts

So don't give me this crap about knowing the Modeling Business - You don't know!

 

 

Bob,

I hope you didn't treat your customers in the same dismissive, know-it-all fashion as you do your fellow forum members. People's opinion may just be that, take yours for example, but there's almost always something you can learn from them. That doesn't happen when you treat them like knaves, bums, and fools. Guess it makes you feel better or something...

Funny - you go against the grain here and you get scolded

I have been in business for many years and it is strange, the customers keep coming back bringing new ones 

Becasue they get the truth not Opinion as so many on these forums like to give out.

I say the truth and I get this - which shows - the only way to make one look good - is tear down some one else - which is typical on here.

And trying to get emotions into typing is near impossible - so one will take everything I type the wrong way - IF they don't agree with my views.

I don't have to try and explain my methods of handling my customers - they seem happy enough when I fix their problems and in the process explain how and why they ended up getting in trouble in the first place.

This explaining the theory of how the products work helps them learn why they may be getting trouble or maybe expecting more of the product then what it is suppoed to be able to do!

I used this same method when I was teaching at a Job Retraining Center back in the mid 70's.  And I get a lot of my former students come up to me many years after and thank me for helping the back then.

BOB H - Clarion, PA

 

[Dusty Solo]

mlehman

Bob,

I hope you didn't treat your customers in the same dismissive, know-it-all fashion as you do your fellow forum members. People's opinion may just be that, take yours for example, but there's almost always something you can learn from them. That doesn't happen when you treat them like knaves, bums, and fools. Guess it makes you feel better or something...

Here is a thought from Wm Shakespeare. 

"Thr fault dear Brutus is not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings"

Dusty

[mlehman]

BRAKIE

Hobby shops needs to turn over their stock by any means including dumping it on e-Bay,at Train Shows or a on sale table. Words of wisdom from a customer's view? Seeing the dust covered stock from 4,5 or even 10 or more years ago shows me nothing other then showing me a very good reason not to return.

Larry,

I think you sum up what is at the root of success in this business now. Thing is, it's the same thing that was true 40 or 50 years ago, it's just that everything happens at a much quicker pace now. It's what's hot and people haven't seen before (or recently) and which is publicized and marketed that sells.

If you've got an inventory that mostly sits and can only afford a small sip of what's new, you're in deep trouble after a year or two now. People have seen it all before, they had a chance to get it at closeout somewhere else and if they come across it again in your shop, it has to be marked down to sell. At the same time, if chosen well and marketed on the internet, it could turn out to be something someone has searched for and suddenly found and may be willing to pay more than a walk-in customer would. That's just one example of many that could be made, but if a LHS isn't thinking in those terms, their future is probably all red boards.

At its heart this is about inventory turnover. If it doesn't sell, it doesn't contribute to the bottom line. You can keep something on the shelf at full MSRP for years and carry it on the books as worth so much, but unless it sells, it conrtributes nothing to the bottom line. I know we both used to be in the grocery business and it's a high vloume/low profit industry. How do they stay in business? Turnover. I forget some numbers quoted but they ranged from something like 13 turns and up a year for profitable stores (and this may have changed, as that was pretty much pre-Walmart).)  Yes, a grocery store must sell roughly the entire value of its stock every month or they can't keep the lights on. Someone mentioned 4 turns/year for hobby shops earlier. That sounds about right at least proportinately to grocery stores. I make no claims to be an expert, but did look into opening a hobby shop about two decades back. Decided I didn't have the capital to make a go of it despite a prime location, etc. You have to have funds you can let sit for awhile to get into the biz, but the only way to really make a going concern of it as a storefront is turning things over to the best of your ability.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that we often talk about this LHS puzzle as if it's all about selling products. Sure, that's a big part of the picture. But something that's rarely considered is the service aspect. Things like DCC installs, both rolling stock and home systems; museum and display contracting; layout construction and wiring; painting and decaling; inspection, evaluation, and repair of brass; and many others all can contribute to the bottom line.

[BRAKIE]

mlehman

I hope you didn't treat your customers in the same dismissive, know-it-all fashion as you do your fellow forum members. People's opinion may just be that, take yours for example, but there's almost always something you can learn from them. That doesn't happen when you treat them like knaves, bums, and fools.

That is exactly what soured me against a lot of hobby shops and several "Mom & Pop" busineses..

As we all know some of us has stood on both sides of the counter or seen why a hobby shop failed while the owner moan and goan about on line shops,train shows and e-Bay.

A shop without a on line presence is doom to fail-research why big box  department stores and other stores needed on line shopping.Research why hobby manufacturers is now selling direct.Hate it or love it on line shopping is here to stay.

Hobby shops  needs to turn over their stock by any means including dumping it on e-Bay,at Train Shows or a on sale table.

 Words of wisdom from a customer's view?

Seeing the dust covered stock  from 4,5 or even 10 or more years ago shows me nothing other then showing me a very good reason not to return.

 

[cedarwoodron]

CTValleyRR mentioned he was in the video rental business "back in the day"- because, today, that business exists only as RedBox kiosk machines in grocery stores or outside drugstores! Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, the little local video shop- all gone, and within the proverbial blink of an eye! Done in by technological change and the rise of easy internet delivery of service- and all within 15 years. 

With hobby shops, I noticed a sign the other day on a Hobbytown franchise store's front door: Help Wanted- RC experience a must!. And thereby hangs a tale! Sure- they have a few model railroad things- some Bachman RTR rolling stock, some train sets left over from the last Christmas holiday season, but their main business is the RC plane and car models that they sell, service and stock repair parts inventory for. Plastic models, which used to cover an entire wall of their store- now cover a few shelves in a corner. I went in for some Plastruct styrene sheets and some L angles- tucked away far in the back now- and only one partially-stocked wire display tree, wher there used to be two full ones! I am lucky they still had something left in inventory I could buy. Even their paint selection is less robust that it used to be. 

On the other hand, I can shop to my heart's content online- with no clerk "watching me"; if I need advice- this forum is an excellent resource, not to mention just googling a topic and letting the "search engine" lead the way; I buy what I need (or can afford at that moment) and then get the (to me) pleasure of anticipating it's arrival at my house in the mail. No gas costs, rarely a sales tax issue, etc.

One idea that some online model railroad stores might take up- use advanced graphics to create a virtual store, where you use your mouse or finger pad to "stroll down aisles filled with inventory", then by clicking on an item, you "pick it up" to inspect it, etc. Avatar clerks could be programmed to be accessed to give advice or refer you to other resources, and it would be a simulcrum of the old hobby shop on your computer! 

Like the video rental stores that now no longer exist, the physical train shop is becoming a pale ghost of itself- as much as I love the past, I must live in the present and adapt...

Cedarwoodron

[JOHN BRUCE III]

I can sympathize with some of the obstacles the former store owners here are outlining. On the other hand, several things come to mind:

• Most small business startups, in or out of the hobby, fail
• I think it was Linn Westcott who mused editorially in the 1960s that hobby shops often failed, and it was often because the owners weren't good at business
• Irrespective of one or another general truth, some shops have done well, others not.

I can't judge why some shops I don't know personally have failed. The owner of my local place, who in my judgment is stubborn and complacent, blames miscalls by Atlas and others in failing to keep merchandise coming, but that's not the only issue. I needed an Atlas #6 and couldn't get one. Well, will a Peco medium radius fit in the same space? Good question, one I've never seen answered. Has a shop ever gone on Facebook and announced yeah, we know nobody can get Atlas, but we recommend this workaround? Never seen it.

Every situation is different. My local place is (almost was) aimed at the high end, brass buyer, superdetailer, narrow gauger, expert. I think it did well enough at that for 40 years or so, but certainly the cases are still full of brass that's been there for years on end, and there's been no serious move to the higher-end hybrid or plastic from BLI, MTH, etc. He has drawer on drawer full of Micro Scale decals, I would assume tens of thousands of dollars worth, that he'll never, ever sell. His current staff doesn't even know where the Micro Scale decals are.

I would almost think there are ways to make lemonade out of lemons. The store invested in a new stock of Tru Color paint with Floquil leaving the business -- why not have a Facebook page giving advice on what Tru Color shades are equivalent to old Floquil? Well, you'd have to have staff that cared and listened to customer advice. Doesn't happen here any more.

A $60 loco may be too much for a teenager, but you can find locos for $20 at swap meets, yeah, old bluebox or whatever, but good for a teenager. There are shops that buy estate items or whatever, lots of bluebox, and put it on sale at equivalent prices. There are workarounds for all this stuff.

I can't address situations I've never seen, but there are some I've seen that have me shaking my head.

[mlehman]

Yeah, I'm a bit leery of much of the boilerplate "retail in 10 easy steps" advice here. As a customer, when I shop I already have a pretty good idea about what I want and how it all fits the budget. It's a difficult hobby to pin down in terms of what your customers want. It's not just a boxcar, for instance, but a 1952 40' car from a specific RR with a specific road number. Very hard to stock in anticipation of that. But somehow that's what a successful LHS has to do these days. You can only sell so much impulse-buy items. But it's often the case that things like rail joiners, paint, styrene, etc are also staples of the hobby and frequently unavailable and not restocked as well as it could be (given availability at wholesale, of course.)

cmrproducts

So don't give me this crap about knowing the Modeling Business - You don't know!

Bob,

I hope you didn't treat your customers in the same dismissive, know-it-all fashion as you do your fellow forum members. People's opinion may just be that, take yours for example, but there's almost always something you can learn from them. That doesn't happen when you treat them like knaves, bums, and fools. Guess it makes you feel better or something...

[cmrproducts]

rrebell

One mistake is taking orders without any money down, what kind of buisness dose that!  Another glaring mistake is not keeping the overhead down. If you plan on being in buisness a long time, rent is a suckers game, I mean that, and that goes for anyone including your primary residence (thank you tenents for paying my bills and helping me retire for the first time at 29, the landlord).

Another typical that knows better than those of us in the business.

Renting is a LOT different than doing retail

I would never want to be a landloard and have to get up in the middle of the night to go fix a renters problem and still have to go to work as most of the small Landloards I knew over the years!

But some people are gluttons for punsihment!

And if you are a large Landloard - you have workers that to the grunt work - so that is an entirly different situation - we have been speaking about single person Operations.

As was stated - the public won't go for the Monety down thing - even I don't do it when I have to pre-order non model related products!

And we think that a Hobby Shop is a crap shoot - Try owning a Speed Shop!

I did that too way back when a person could work and Modify their cars and it was fun and easy to do.

Made some bucks on that - If you think Modelers spend money - Guys hopping up their cars would come in and drop thousands in an instant and be back next week and do it again - if they were racing - what ever was hot last week they had to have.

I then went into the Engine Rebuilding Shop.

Once the Emissions became too popular ended the roll of a Speed Shop and the machine Shop as one had to just replace the complete unit instead of the car owner doing their own work.  

So don't give me this crap about knowing the Modeling Business - You don't know!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

 

[One Track Mind]

Tried demanding payment up front for pre-orders. Didn't work. Doesn't work. Won't work. Again, traditional retail rules do not apply. When I tried to enforce that rule, complaints skyrocketed and orders evaporated. My overhead, not including my "salary" - was 20%. Good or bad? Seriously looked into building my own space instead of rent. You tried to build anything lately? A bare bones small structure was going to cost close to a half million. And do you know why? Because they require you to have this, require you to have that... gotta have a paved parking lot, gotta have this many of this kind of tree and this many of that kind of bush in the landscaping. I was paying 500 a month in rent for 4100 square feet. I'd say I did all right in the overhead department.

I did make plenty of mistakes, and one of them was the 4100 square feet. When the model train industry changed the business model to "inventory is bad" - then it became a challenge to keep a large store looking full.

[rrebell]

One mistake is taking orders without any money down, what kind of buisness dose that!  Another glaring mistake is not keeping the overhead down. If you plan on being in buisness a long time, rent is a suckers game, I mean that, and that goes for anyone including your primary residence (thank you tenents for paying my bills and helping me retire for the first time at 29, the landlord).

[tin can]

I closed my retail shop fifteen years ago.  I can honestly say I was burned out of the railroad hobby.  But I moved on to a real, paying job; I helped to raise two kids; and completed a masters degree necessary in my new career field.

I am now getting back into the hobby.  Both of my kids are in college, and I have more free time.  I don't have space for a layout; and when I closed my shop, the modular club that was associated with it withered.  The HobbyTowns we have had since then aren't really interested in stimulating the local clubs. 

[One Track Mind]

BATMAN

I have a question to those that have opened a train and/or hobby shop. Has going into the business made you less interested in the hobby, even to the point of not even having a layout anymore?

 

 

 

 

Yes, less interested. The passion is coming back slowly, though

[BATMAN]

I have a question to those that have opened a train and/or hobby shop. Has going into the business made you less interested in the hobby, even to the point of not even having a layout anymore? I have known a few people over the years that have started a business that involved something they were passionate about as a pastime, only to see their interest waine as the business took over.

[cmrproducts]

One Track Mind

from my perspective - strictly as a one man (no employees) hobby shop - I can tell you that almost no traditional retail advice helps with a model train shop these days. Just check the advice in this thread and ask yourself how you would run a model train shop. I see that some folks think I would still be in business if I only made an effort to sell someone something. Fine and dandy, except easily 75% if not up to 90% of the customers that came into my store just wanted to be left alone to browse. Some accused me of "watching them to make sure they weren't shoplifting" (when I thought I was making myself available to them for assistance by stepping out from behind the counter). Others were offended by the simple phrase "Hi, how are you? Let me know if I can help you find anything." (That was too pushy for some folks.)

Everybody wants everything cheap, high quality and right now. Not going to happen. Can't have all three. To hear anyone complain about the stock being low in a model train shop these days is simply someone who is ignorant of what has happened in the last five years. 18 months ago, I was having trouble getting Atlas track products in stock. I was accused of: being too poor to afford to restock... or, must have credit limit problems with the distributors... or, you're only trying to get us to be more expensive brands of track products... or, you're too stupid to know you are out of track nails... Yet here we are, been out of business for over a year and I hear you still can't get rail joiners. But everyone complains about a place not having inventory. How about we ask Exact Rail why train shops don't have inventory? How about we ask any of these made to order "manufacturers" why the train shops don't have inventory? Why don't we ask wholesalers who can no longer afford to keep product on the warehouse shelves why there is no inventory?

Let's dump product on the internet. Great idea. Now that we are all connected, why would I ever buy anything in a brick and mortar shop when eventually it will show up on eBay for less than cost? Let's say in Little Rock, Arkansas, that I was dumb enough to stock a Boston & Maine Genesis F7. 6 months later, it's still on the shelf. (Horizon recommends dumping it in 3 months) OK, put it on eBay and get rid of it. How does the shopowner in New England feel about that??? Does that help him sell items in his store? From shop owners to manufacturers, dumping stuff on the internet is shooting yourself in the foot.

"You should sell on the internet." I agree, if I had employees. But you cannot give personal service to your customers (chat with them) - something you can't get on the internet - if you have to be on the computer all the time checking orders and answering endless e-mail questions.

"You should discount." I did discount 10 - 20%, sometimes more. That's not enough.

"You should offer service... repairs." Tried to get parts out of anyone lately?

The idiots who run things think a 9% sales tax is a good idea for a b&m shop, but either don't have the brains or the cajones to enforce it on internet sales. Then they complain that their budgets are coming up short for filling the potholes.

Prices are up, quality is down. Availability is hit and miss, mostly miss.

Modelers are dying off and they are not being replaced. New people came into the store all the time. "We want a cheap engine." You show them the 80 dollar Bachmann that you can sell for 62 and they say no... this is just for a kid, where are the cheap engines... THAT IS THE CHEAP ENGINE.

Most comments on these "why can't a train shop be better?" are from people who think they know how to run a train shop because they have shopped in a train shop. The reality is, even traditional retail techniques don't work in a model train shop. "Inventory should turn over at least four times a year." Good advice, except you get inventory in February, you are sold out by July and when you reorder... out of stock for six months. (Or a year)

You need to budget. Also a good idea. I will pre-order 1000 dollars of Athearn that will arrive in June because I can afford to do so. I will pre-order 1000 dollars of Athearn in July because I can afford to do so. July rolls around, and here comes your 1000 dollar July order, 500 dollars from the June order that just now arrived... 300 dollars from February that is really late, and 250 dollars from your September order that came in early. Now you are in a budget crunch, especially if some customers... who have had six months to a year to save the money for the stuff they ordered... don't pay for it right away.

You asked for an opinion from behind the counter, there you go. Actually, you can dispute an opinion... all 800+ words of this is fact that you cannot dispute unless you have walked a mile in my shoes.

After 16 years in the model train business, I can tell you a small shop with one guy running it needs three things to be successful... 1: The guy behind the counter needs to be a model railroad expert. 2: The guy behind the counter needs to be a people person. 3: The guy behind the counter needs to be a great business person. Hard to find someone who has all three qualities.

I couldn't agree more with your reply.

It is unbelievable how so many on these forums (any of them) think they know more about a subject and have never been there!

Also am a Hobby Shop owner!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

 

[One Track Mind]

from my perspective - strictly as a one man (no employees) hobby shop - I can tell you that almost no traditional retail advice helps with a model train shop these days. Just check the advice in this thread and ask yourself how you would run a model train shop. I see that some folks think I would still be in business if I only made an effort to sell someone something. Fine and dandy, except easily 75% if not up to 90% of the customers that came into my store just wanted to be left alone to browse. Some accused me of "watching them to make sure they weren't shoplifting" (when I thought I was making myself available to them for assistance by stepping out from behind the counter). Others were offended by the simple phrase "Hi, how are you? Let me know if I can help you find anything." (That was too pushy for some folks.)

Everybody wants everything cheap, high quality and right now. Not going to happen. Can't have all three. To hear anyone complain about the stock being low in a model train shop these days is simply someone who is ignorant of what has happened in the last five years. 18 months ago, I was having trouble getting Atlas track products in stock. I was accused of: being too poor to afford to restock... or, must have credit limit problems with the distributors... or, you're only trying to get us to buy the more expensive brands of track products... or, you're too stupid to know you are out of track nails... Yet here we are, been out of business for over a year and I hear you still can't get rail joiners. But everyone complains about a place not having inventory. How about we ask Exact Rail why train shops don't have inventory? How about we ask any of these made to order "manufacturers" why the train shops don't have inventory? Why don't we ask wholesalers who can no longer afford to keep product on the warehouse shelves why there is no inventory?

Let's dump product on the internet. Great idea. Now that we are all connected, why would I ever buy anything in a brick and mortar shop when eventually it will show up on eBay for less than cost? Let's say in Little Rock, Arkansas, that I was dumb enough to stock a Boston & Maine Genesis F7. 6 months later, it's still on the shelf. (Horizon recommends dumping it in 3 months) OK, put it on eBay and get rid of it. How does the shopowner in New England feel about that??? Does that help him sell items in his store? From shop owners to manufacturers, dumping stuff on the internet is shooting yourself in the foot.

"You should sell on the internet." I agree, if I had employees. But you cannot give personal service to your customers (chat with them) - something you can't get on the internet - if you have to be on the computer all the time checking orders and answering endless e-mail questions.

"You should discount." I did discount 10 - 20%, sometimes more. That's not enough.

"You should offer service... repairs." Tried to get parts out of anyone lately?

The idiots who run things think a 9% sales tax is a good idea for a b&m shop, but either don't have the brains or the cajones to enforce it on internet sales. Then they complain that their budgets are coming up short for filling the potholes.

Prices are up, quality is down. Availability is hit and miss, mostly miss.

Modelers are dying off and they are not being replaced. New people came into the store all the time. "We want a cheap engine." You show them the 80 dollar Bachmann that you can sell for 64 and they say no... this is just for a kid, where are the cheap engines... THAT IS THE CHEAP ENGINE.

Most comments on these "why can't a train shop be better?" are from people who think they know how to run a train shop because they have shopped in a train shop. The reality is, even traditional retail techniques don't work in a model train shop. "Inventory should turn over at least four times a year." Good advice, except you get inventory in February, you are sold out by July and when you reorder... out of stock for six months. (Or a year)

You need to budget. Also a good idea. I will pre-order 1000 dollars of Athearn that will arrive in June because I can afford to do so. I will pre-order 1000 dollars of Athearn in July because I can afford to do so. July rolls around, and here comes your 1000 dollar July order, 500 dollars from the June order that just now arrived... 300 dollars from February that is really late, and 250 dollars from your September order that came in early. Now you are in a budget crunch, especially if some customers... who have had six months to a year to save the money for the stuff they ordered... don't pay for it right away.

You asked for an opinion from behind the counter, there you go. Actually, you can dispute an opinion... all 800+ words of this is fact that you cannot dispute unless you have walked a mile in my shoes.

After 16 years in the model train business, I can tell you a small shop with one guy running it needs three things to be successful... 1: The guy behind the counter needs to be a model railroad expert. 2: The guy behind the counter needs to be a people person. 3: The guy behind the counter needs to be a great business person. Hard to find someone who has all three qualities.

 

[Dusty Solo]

There is an old adage & that is that, "nothing happens until sombody sells something" The single most important aspect of any business is sales. Regretably most store clerks are not sales orientated - they just don't know or have the skill & sales techniqgues to sell anybody anything. Sure, they will accept money from a store patron who hase made a purchase descion possibly before entering the store. They are, to a sometimes limited extent, reaonably good at being an order taker, but sales focused, no, I don't think so. There are exceptions, clearly, but just think of the last time you were actually sold something as distinct from entering the store with a purchase in mind already & leaving with just that item.

And all of that idle chit-chat that doesn't result is sales is just a plain waste of time, effort & money. Cordiality,  amiability a friendly disposition, product & industry knowledge are all important as well as interpersonal skills. Also important is a stores ability to buy wise to be able to sell compeditivly.

ctvalleyrr has raised some pretty valid points that I have followed on from based on a period in my working life as a commercial traveler selling to the retail trade. That was a goodly number of years ago. We had sales targets to meet & the companies I worked for made sure we kept up our sales focus. As a consequence of this, & although its been many years since then, I still critique store clerks sales technique, if they exist at all, but mostly I am left with this silent scream in my head - "for pittys sake, sell me something".

Dusty.

 

 

[CTValleyRR]

I worked as a store manager in retail many years ago, when the internet was in its infancy.  Our store was hugely successful, but in a very competitve industry (video rental).  Some things never change.  And the biggest thing that never changes is the certainty of change.

Many or most brick and mortar owners just don't adapt to change.  And many of them are lousy businesspeople to begin with.  Any business owner with dead stock should be slapped in the back of the head.  Yes, you paid your distributor $175 for that loco you're selling for $200, but if you can't move it at that price, you need to find a way to move it, or you're out $175.  Period.  Inventory is like seafood. After it's been there a while, it really begins to stink.

And BTW, these huge online places (like Amazon) have overhead, pay rent and taxes, and salaries just like the little guys.  If they're not renting space, they're forking out large amounts of capital to buy it.  They just have a better business model for moving product.

The LHS has two big advantages over the internet: instant gratification and expertise.  Most LHS owners miss the boat on both of these, as reading the last 3 pages of posts will show. My boss used to press us mercilessly to stay up on movies, because he knew what separated him from the competition was that he had employees who would engage customers, make recommendations, and be able to answer questions like "What was that movie starring Nicholas Cage and Cher?".  That store drove all the other small guys out of business, and competed successfully with Blockbuster.  Sadly, retailers seem to have lost the bubble on this.

The problem with expertise is that people want to go in to your store, use your expertise, and then go order it on line for cheaper (there actually is a business term for this, although it escapes my mind at the moment).  It's what's killing Best Buy.  Thing is, though, this can be mitigated by well-trained, enthusiastic staff.  Stick with the customer, be enthusiastic and friendly (not grumpy that he's interfering with your game of Candy Crush), and if he seems disinclined to purchase, try to close the sale -- and empowering employees to deal really helps here.  When you can say, on the spot, "I'll tell you what, I can let you have it for 10% off" really helps.

Unfortunately, having the resources to have an inventory big enough for "instant gratification", and the savvy to keep changing out that inventory to follow what does move (lower inventory quantities with more frequent reorders also helps, but is more labor intensive), as well as the time,knowledge, and inclination to train your staff to the level required, is more than a lot of business owners want to do these days.

[NittanyLion]

IRONROOSTER

 

 

riogrande5761

 

I live in Manassas and have lived in the Herdon, Chantilly area since 2009 and haven't found any hobby shops worth going to except for very basic stuff like Atlas sectional track, track nails or rail joiners.  There was a decent shop south of Springfield on the way to Ft Belvoir, but it closed a year or so ago.  I have heard there is a shop in Ashburn that I haven't been to yet, so I'll have to see if it is anygood, but my expectations are low.  Do you know of any shops I have missed? Mostly I go to the Timonium show or the occasional Greenberg show, or mailorder - and occasional trips to MBK if I'm already in the area for the T-show.

 

 

 

 

The shop near Ft Belvoir - Trains Etc - sold some (maybe all) of his stock to the hobby shop in Warrenton.  But the Warrenton shop this year has reduced it's store size to less than half and no longer has a decent stock of trains - less than a quarter of the new store area. Most (all?) of his train stuff has been on the shelves a long time at list price.

The Train Depot on Willard Road in Chantilly and KMA Junction in Manassas are the only all train shops that I know of in Northern Virginia.  Both are small and seem to focus more on 3-rail O gauge.

Like you, I mostly buy at train shows and online.

Enjoy

Paul

 

I rely on Hobby Works in Fairfax for things like paint, tools, and scenic supplies. Only thing I wish they carried was Evergreen styrene. They have Plastruct. 

[IRONROOSTER]

riogrande5761

 

I live in Manassas and have lived in the Herdon, Chantilly area since 2009 and haven't found any hobby shops worth going to except for very basic stuff like Atlas sectional track, track nails or rail joiners.  There was a decent shop south of Springfield on the way to Ft Belvoir, but it closed a year or so ago.  I have heard there is a shop in Ashburn that I haven't been to yet, so I'll have to see if it is anygood, but my expectations are low.  Do you know of any shops I have missed? Mostly I go to the Timonium show or the occasional Greenberg show, or mailorder - and occasional trips to MBK if I'm already in the area for the T-show.

 

The shop near Ft Belvoir - Trains Etc - sold some (maybe all) of his stock to the hobby shop in Warrenton.  But the Warrenton shop this year has reduced it's store size to less than half and no longer has a decent stock of trains - less than a quarter of the new store area. Most (all?) of his train stuff has been on the shelves a long time at list price.

The Train Depot on Willard Road in Chantilly and KMA Junction in Manassas are the only all train shops that I know of in Northern Virginia.  Both are small and seem to focus more on 3-rail O gauge.

Like you, I mostly buy at train shows and online.

Enjoy

Paul

[CajonTim]

I miss the local "Mom & Pop" train shops that used to be all over Southern California!  The bigs shops are still here; Allied, Whistle Stop, Train Shack, etc.  But, I am not sure it was only economics that killed them.  I lot of the ones I frequented the owners either retired or passed on.  I know I paid more for items there, but the cost of the item came with service, advice, & friendly conversation.  I used to have a job that required me to travel all over Southern California and I knew where they all were.  And, the owners all knew me!  It was fun. 

I have to confess I mostly buy online now.  Mostly Caboose, Trainworld, Fifer, Ebay, Amazon, Walthers, etc.  I also buy direct from Manufacturers.

I get advice from this forum, You Tube, etc.  But, it isn't the same. 

I too would be interested in thoughts from Hobby business people.  I wonder if there perspective would indicate the hobby is dying?  I am in my sixties and don't know if there are a lot of young people interested in it any more?

I got into a conversation with the owner of the one hobby store near me.  He said he makes most of his business on RC cars and aircraft now.  He still has a "train guy" working for him but that business has really softened.  He didn't know if the hobby was dying or had just moved on line.  Has anyone done a study on that?

Tim

[NEMMRRC]

Howdy. 

A wise hose fellow that used to run the hobby store where I live once told me:"The only way to make a small fortune in the model railroad hobby shop business is to start with a large fortune."

I miss that fellow. 

Jaime

[riogrande5761]

NittanyLion

 

 

IRONROOSTER

Hobby shops are dying.  I've watched the number decline in Northern Virginia for over 40 years.  The train oriented ones that are left are mostly 3-rail O gauge.  There are a few general hobby shops such as Hobby Town around, but they too are decreasing.  I think the future is hobby shows and Internet shops plus a few very large shops in areas with lots of hobbyists.

Paul

 

 

 

 

Why would I wait until Saturday to drive from Alexandria to Fairfax, Chantilly, or Manassass and then find out they don't have what I discovered I need on Monday when I can order Monday night from MB Klein and have it on Friday?

I live in Manassas and have lived in the Herdon, Chantilly area since 2009 and haven't found any hobby shops worth going to except for very basic stuff like Atlas sectional track, track nails or rail joiners.  There was a decent shop south of Springfield on the way to Ft Belvoir, but it closed a year or so ago.  I have heard there is a shop in Ashburn that I haven't been to yet, so I'll have to see if it is anygood, but my expectations are low.  Do you know of any shops I have missed? Mostly I go to the Timonium show or the occasional Greenberg show, or mailorder - and occasional trips to MBK if I'm already in the area for the T-show.

JOHN BRUCE III

I posted this because I've been slowly recognizing that my local place is goiing down, and I've been a customer for 40 years or so. It's a little like losing a relative, even if it's expected. The posts here are helping me to recognize what's been happening. I think it's too late to do anything about my local place

Shops need lots of business to survive - no one can save a shop on it's own.  When I used to live in another town, fellow modelers would almost make it a "moral imperative" to support the LHS or I was disloyal.  Hello ... I struggled alot on my own financially - I cannot treat an LHS like a charity and donate extra money I can't afford - not with court ordered child support and other major obgliations, and periods of unemployment in an area with a bad job market.  Since then the cost of the hobby has gone up sharply so getting items at a discount is more necessary than every to be able to afford them.

 

[BRAKIE]

rrebell

weird, the quote was wrong!!!!

Probably a glitch in the system..No worries.

I understood what you wrote  but,thought the guy was be foolish since selling old  dusty stock is a means of  making money in order to order new stock... 

[rrebell]

rrebell

 

BRAKIE

Home The Magazine Get Started News & Reviews How To Videos Community Special Issues Shop MENU

 

 

Read my post more carefully, I was talking about the shop owner making presumpsions which cost it a lot of money, we are talking thousand here (no, not from me)!

 

 

weird, the quote was wrong!!!!

[rrebell]

BRAKIE

Home The Magazine Get Started News & Reviews How To Videos Community Special Issues Shop MENU

Read my post more carefully, I was talking about the shop owner making presumpsions which cost it a lot of money, we are talking thousand here (no, not from me)!

[JOHN BRUCE III]

I posted this because I've been slowly recognizing that my local place is goiing down, and I've been a customer for 40 years or so. It's a little like losing a relative, even if it's expected. The posts here are helping me to recognize what's been happening. I think it's too late to do anything about my local place -- I think part of it is the guy got rid of a partner several years ago who could have kept things going, and it's a big question of judgment on his part.

One point that keeps coming up is that you've got to know your customers and cater to them. Another is having the right staff. Typical blunders are, during the holiday season, letting first-time buyers, who may not even buy anything, monopolize the counter and crowd out the regulars. This takes tact and good judgment, and you can't pay people like that the same as McDonald's. Another is recognizing that the business involves part numbers, the difference between BNSF and CSX, etc etc etc. If your staff resents having to look up a part, or resents it if a customer says "I'm sorry I wanted the AB-123, and that's a BC-124," you've got the wrong people working for you. A big advantage to dealing on line is that you don't have to go through passive-aggressive jerks, if you get it right, the computer gets it right.

I don't know if some of the guys at my local place are naturally dumb and lazy, or if it's liquid fueled, but the owner has a problem with them, and he won't admit it. They don't like me, and I don't like them. He didn't used to have people like that, but they all left. I think part of it was they recognized the owner wasn't making good personnel decisions.

I'm hearing in some of the commernts that there are places like Greenville, SC or Springfield-Palmer, MA that can siupport train stores. That makes me think that a business that's properly run can survive.

 

[BRAKIE]

rrebell

Had one stop doing a flea market train event because they thought another shop was dumping invintory

To my feeble mind dumping stock is far better then sitting on stock that is dusty and several years old and the idea of not dumping old stock is from the Jurassic age of hobby shop business 101 and will surely doom a hobby shop in today's  on line business mode and one hears those famous words every day ~ visit our web site!

[rrebell]

Almost any buisness can suceed. The trouble with every hobby shop I have ever visited (except one M. B. Klein) were terrible buisness people, I mean really bad!!!!!! Had one stop doing a flea market train event because they thought another shop was dumping invintory ( a person that worked at another shop was getting rid of some of his stuff, I beleive he was changing scales). What dose that have to do with buisness is when people were through with the bargin stuff, they would come into the store and buy, the line was as long as the store to check out, even me who usually only buys bargins would pick up a few items at full retail. My stories are endless about peole who should never be in buisness. One of the fist rules you learn in buisness is never let persoal feelings interfere with making a profit!!!!!!!!!!!

[farrellaa]

Unfortunately, most hobby shops are going away, unless as mentioned they are in a big city or metro area. I have only 2 shops within 25 miles and one is Hobby Town and the other is a small one man mostly train shop. Hobby Town carries stuff for many hobby facets, not just trains. And that is unfortunate for me because they don't have anyone there with model railroad knowledge and definately none with DCC knowledge. The other shop is a small narrow shop with almost no space for customers to walk and no way to 'look' at anything. I try to go to Hobby Town for most of my detailing, scratch building materials and scenery which they keep a good supply of. They just moved into a much larger store and that is encouraging. The rest of my mrr purchases are done online. I just hope these two stay in business for another 10 years (when I don't think I will be able to do much on the mrr!).

   -Bob

[tin can]

A good rule of thumb for a retail hobby shop was a retail turn of 4 times.  That means you sold every item in your inventory four times in a year.  If you had a million dollar inventory; you'd have to do 4 million in sales.  That is a lot of sales in a day; a week; or a month.

Daunting?  And darn near impossible to do without a web presence...

[Dusty Solo]

I've experienced this kind of thing, but not in a long while - "no we don't have that in stock right now,  but we can order it in for you". I don't take that route anymore & when I did the process was full of possible screwups: ref. Murphys Law.

I prefer on-line/internet buying from anybody who has the items I'm looking for. I like doing things for myself if I can. Old age has not prevented me from ordering my own hobby supplies - not yet anyway.

Mail order, the old form of what we do on the internt now, was a big deal back in the day. Why, you cold even buy a car from the Sears catalog - the, Allstate a compact made by Kaiser. I'm sure that will loosen up some memories.

But that was then & this is now & the way we once did things has now been, for the most part, taken over by the new technology we use today. With the risk of continuing to state the obvious, the hobby shop as we once new it was doomed into irrelivance years ago - we just didn't recognize the signs. It's all part of the massive changes that happen so quickly these days that  it's head spinning for many of us. Once again to point out the obvious: change happened more slowly; gradually prior to WWII, but from then on in it all took off running as rapid change & huge advances in technology enabled us to do & acheive so much more than we had in the past. We have seen Detroit, motor city as it once was, become a virtual ghetto now and the demise of the LHS is part of the same process that killed off the De Soto & the rest of the household names that once filled our driveways

all those many years ago.

 

 

Dusty

 

[maxman]

woodman

The man who runs the Lionel store told me that they are getting ready to put on a 1,500 Sq ft. addition

Where are they going to expand to?  Out into the parking lot?  Does this mean that they will eliminate the mural on the side of the building?

[woodman]

I was just at my LHS, it is two stores in one, one store carries HO and N scale, the other store carries, Lionel, American Flyer and LGB. Both stores are very cramped on space, you enter into the HO/N scale store and once inside there is an archway into the other store. The man who runs the Lionel store told me that they are getting ready to put on a 1,500 Sq ft. addition, so in some areas  the brick and mortal stores are still doing well. This store is in Lansdale, Pa.

[BATMAN]

Once upon a time I would drive to the Hobby Shop, where the guy would usually tell me he would have to order it in from Walthers or wherever. Two weeks would pass and I would have to make another trip to go get it. So now I just order it from Walthers or wherever myself and have it sent to my house. Even if I have to pay shipping, it is a lot cheaper than paying to move a 2000KG vehicle back and forth to the hobby shop. I am often told to stop being so pragmatic and that is fine with me. Now if I can only get drone delivery and eliminate those stinky, polluting step vans that rumble down the street, that would be another step in the right direction.

Whether it's courier companies, hobby shops or buggy whip manufacturers, change is the biggest part of growth. As for myself, I have too much living left to do and will welcome with a sense of awe anything new comes down the pipe. I occasionally do get sentimental when I am tired and feeling worn out, but that only last until the batteries are charged. When I stop being this way you can reserve me a room at Valhalla.

[riogrande5761]

Topics of this nature seem to come up frequently but I'm not aware of any major change in the hobby or the business model that will be that miracle some seem to be looking for.  The trend we have seen will likely continue and only the shops which have been able to adapt to online sales will have chance at continuing on.

[cacole]

Some on-line businesses such as Amazon are already collecting Arizona sales tax, but their prices still beat many local merchants who have to pay rent, utilities, staff, medical coverage, etc.

[tin can]

KemacPrr

One thing that could change the internet business model will be the Federal Internet Sales Tax that will eventually be enacted. Fed Tax revenues from brick and motar stores are dropping and the need for more tax income will bring this about. When it was first considered a few years back  it would have been 2% now I have heard the start point is 5%. Reason it did not start years ago was the cry from the then young new internet that it needed to be able to grow first. Now it is grown up !!!  Will be interesting to see what happens when that comes about. ----   Ken

 

Sales taxes are a local and state tax; the feds get their tax monies through income taxes on individuals and corporate tax returns.  Any federal internet sales tax will be redistributed to local and state governments.  Those entities are being hardest hit by e-commerce.  And local property taxes on b&m inventories have also impacted local governments.

Great online deals will be diminished when shipping, sales tax, and shipping time are figured into the equation.

[KemacPrr]

One thing that could change the internet business model will be the Federal Internet Sales Tax that will eventually be enacted. Fed Tax revenues from brick and motar stores are dropping and the need for more tax income will bring this about. When it was first considered a few years back  it would have been 2% now I have heard the start point is 5%. Reason it did not start years ago was the cry from the then young new internet that it needed to be able to grow first. Now it is grown up !!!  Will be interesting to see what happens when that comes about. ----   Ken

[PRRT1MAN]

I will throw in my 2 cents to this conversation.   Someone else mentioned that Hobby Shops need to market to the people that they will serve.  Well another thing I think happened is from when I was a kid(now 46)  I used to gowith my mom to K-mart and buy el cheapo tyco & model power stuff there.  I remember getting tyco cars for a buck a peice. For a kid in the 70's that was pretty affordable and I got interested in the  hobby. We don't have this for kids anymore. I have  2 girls so not much interest but even if they were there is no real el-cheapo stuff to buy unless you go to the train shows. How can you get a kid enthused in trains if as a parent you have to spend well over $100.00 to get them a cheap train set. let alone start buying them ultra detailed cars at 30 bucks a peice. I had a 8' x 8' table with all my cheap stuff but I was in 7th heaven, I was a kid Didn't have to be super detailed or even correct for the PRR it just had to be cheap and run. As I aged I went more to the hobby shops because I got a bit more picky on what I wanted.  Now I am so picky that 99% of the time the LHS doesn't have what I am looking for so I have ended up on the internet.  I think we have all gone that way as a society, too picky and need it NOW!

[BRAKIE]

GP-9_Man11786

Actually, what I've seen here in South Carolina is when Wal Mart comes in, the businesses on Main street do close down but then new ones that Wal Mart doesn't compete with come in and take their place.

Being from Columbus,Ohio I seen urban decay at its worst..I seen several  downtown department stores go out of business including the icon of downtown~F&R Lazarus.This store was large with 6 floors and had two adjoining buildings.

Folks just move to the suburbs and shopped at the outlaying malls.

[aloneinmontana]

I grew up with railroads in Montana (MILW & NP) and always was interested in trains and had a nice HO layout as a kid. Joined the Navy and when I got out I ended up living in south Florida for 7 years before moving home. I didn't have the room for HO, but I did build a small N scale layout and had Orange Blossom Hobbies close by. They were well stocked and the staff were great at answering any questions and helping me find what I needed.

Then came the move back home to Montana. No LHS at all. I did stock up before leaving Florida but soon needed more and no where to get it. I ended up changing to HO scale in the late 70's and had a couple of dedicated modelers in the area in HO scale and I ended up getting dealerships with a number of suppliers, including Walthers. It was great for me and other modelers in the area. I was able to help them and it kept inventory moving, but most was always special ordered. It's hard to keep everything in stock. Up here we were just glad to have access to model railroad supplies. In the late 80's when a recession hit, many had to move out of the area and a couple also passed away. I ended up having to get out of the business, but I did have a plan for my layout and had rat holed quite a lot away for getting the layout built. As years passed, the layout did move ahead, but my supplies finally gave out.

This is where not having a local hobby shop was a big problem. We do travel a lot and I would always make a list of what I thought I needed and would stop at hobby shops across the country to keep my layout moving, but progress really slowed. There is a shop in Billings which I always stop at when in town, but for the most part they never stocked what I needed and I would get the "well, we can order it for you" line.

 

Finally e-retailers started coming on line and this has been the only way I have been able to keep going in the hobby. The LHS has no way that they can stock everything, especially in mor erecent years when a lot more has come into the model railroad hobby. I do feel bad for the owners of a LHS because I know first hand what they are up against.

 

[JOHN BRUCE III]

Your dealer can actually still get it from Walthers. For a number of years, I took advantage of this with my local shop -- I would get a Walthers flyer, see sale items in particular, and order them through my dealer. This meant I could get discount pricing but support my dealer, since Walthers would discount the wholesale price. During that period, my dealer would sometimes see something I'd ordered, say gee, that's pretty neat, and order additional ones at the same price (but I don't think he passed the savings on -- he'd get the discount wholesale but charge full list!)

There are two problems with that. One is that Walthers has a credit limit, so even if the dealer knows I'm a sure thing to pick the item up right away and pay for it, Walthers may be putting a hold on the dealer's orders overall until the credit problem is fixed. So in theory, an item could come from Walthers nearly as fast and as cheaply as an item from Klein's via UPS, if there's a credit problem, that won't happen. But also, there's only one way to get an order right, and an infinite number of ways to screw it up. I wound up working with the former manager of the store to be sure that only a reliable employee took my orders, but that broke down, and the less reliable employees didn't like it, since that meant in management's eyes, there might be someone who wouldn't get laid off before they did. The body language among the what's-an-F7 contingent on the staff got worse and worse when I'd come in.

Warren Buffett says that when the tide goes out, you can see who's swimming without a bathing suit. I think that changes in the hobby are exposing bad habits in the industry. Past a certain point, I couldn't support this store.

 

[BRAKIE]

IRONROOSTER

Already I and others do most of our buying online and at train shows. This hobby existed before the b&m hobby shops and will exist after they are gone.

Indeed..I can remember when "Mail Order shops will kill the hobby" was the cry as was "Support your local hobby  shop"..Of course that was in the days of BB  locomotives and car kits.

Remember "Your dealer can get it from Walthers"?

What changed?

The arrival of the internet and how many of us became our own hobby shop by ordering what we need at discount and we basically cut out the middleman~ the  hobby shop.

[tin can]

It is all about cash flow; whether a store can generate it through walk-in traffic, mail order, or internet/ebay sales.  You have to have cash to invest in the next new product; and you have to be able to dump old inventory to make way for the new.  Bottom line is you have to have sales to generate cash.

I'll also argue that a b&m store has to constantly market the hobby to sustain its business.  It has to nuture newcomers to the hobby and support existing hobbyists:  by supporting local clubs; by showcasing new products on in-store layouts; by using clinics to teach newbies or new techniques. 

 And it has to have a dynamic inventory (and knowledge behind the inventory) to support a wide customer base.

[Soo Line fan]

They need to hire Gordon Ramsay and do "Hobby Shop Nightmares"  complete with stubborn owners and inept employees.

[mlehman]

rgengineoiler

So, in my humble opinion it it will take a million dollars or more, (or more) for a good train stocking hobbyshop to survive in the current hobby business climate. Just the amount of train related products currently for sale is off the charts and trying to compete as a small local hobbyshop stocking all of it would be very difficult.

That right there is a major factor. Back when Atheran carried the same Blue Box kits for years at a time and most other vendors had products with equally long shelf lives, it wasn't too big a deal to stock a representative set of goods likely to appeal to your customers.

Folks' expecations have changed. They want a specific model right down to the road number -- or they're look elsewhere for it. Now you must know your customers as individuals and cater to those needs, inside of just making a general stab in the dark based on what folks have bought over the last 5 years.

That's why the LHS that's well managed survives and the ones who aren't are dropping like flies.

BTW, this hobby doesn't depend on the LHS anymore or it would already be as dead as some people think it will soon be, because the marketing of goods is changing so quickly to new formats. The hobby is here as long as YOU want it to be. Some of us could start our own hobby shop with everything we have squirreled away. The estate sales from all that stuff guarantees the hobby will be alive for the next 50 years even if all the hobby vendors closed their doors today.

Enough gloom and doom. I'm going to have some fun now...

[cmrproducts]

cacole

 

 

GP-9_Man11786

I also beleive when the average customer hears "We don't have it but we can order it for you" it leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

 

 

 

 

My thought when they tell me that is, "Well, after driving 70 miles to come here and find out you don't have what I need, I can order it myself and save money in the process.  I don't want you to order it for me and have to make another 70 mile one-way trip to pick it up.  I'll let UPS do the driving!"

 

Unfortunately with the Current Manufacturing Model - This - I can Order it for you - is only going to get worse!

What most MFG really want to do is go DIRECT and sell to the cusomer and skip the Warehouse & B&M Hobby Shop.

First they can make more money as they don't have to discount (and I never did understand why everyone thinks they need a discount) - YOU don't get it Lionel and MTH O scale!

Then the MFG won't really have that many orders if they are only producing 1000 or so units per run - so taking the orders via e-mail and packing/sending is no big deal as any internet Hobby unit does that now

Remeber they are only selling in such low volume anymore the need for a lot of shipping personal will not cost that much now that they can sell at LIST Price instead of Discounting to everyone!

I hope this never happesn as the B&M Hobby Shop will be no more - but we are brginning to see this effect with the very small MFG of specialty products.  This is the wave of the future.

And before you dismiss this notion - or think I am crazy - it wasn't that many years ago no one ever thought PRE-ORDER would be around but now it is an every day occurance!

GET READY!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

[JOHN BRUCE III]

I'm wondering if MR, or Model Retailer, might consider a series of articles similar to the Bar Rescue show. It seems to me that there are similarities between failing bars that you see on that show and failing hobby shops. It's sad to see a big train store go under, although it's often something you could see coming, and something a lazy or complacent owner might have avoided.  But the other side of the coin is that if the owner is lazy, complacent, or just elderly, no sort of advice is going to help.

When I went in to my local disaster-waiting-to-happen yesterday, the owner was there, plus three other employees (two of whom were the F7-what's-that variety) -- but I was the only customer in the store. There are a million things that ought to come to mind -- how to pull something out of the hundreds of thousands in inventory that isn't moving, whether to fire one or two of the jerks who can't be bothered to do much more than screw up the cash register -- but likely never will. I don't give the place much longer, and I'm actively doing contingency planning for where now to get paint, glue, styrene, Kadees (and the DCC he never carried).

[rgengineoiler]

When I started in this hobby there was a local hobbyshop that did trains and planes and he left in the middle 90's never to return.  There is Hobbytown USA in Ft. Collins but they could care less if I walk in the door which was last week.  I needed some Peco C55 track and some Evergreen black styrene.  They had neither and shrugged their sholders when I mentioned that these were items that modelers are using now.  So I left and ordered from Caboose Hobbies.

I have shopped for years with Caboose Hobbies on south Broadway in Denver but now days just shop on line as they are over 70 miles from my home and being retired don't drive to Denver and deal with the traffic hassel.  I do use M. B. Klein and Fiffer because they take PayPal and have a inventory on hand system when I order and one will have in stock when the other doesn't etc.

Caboose Hobbies so far doesn't take PayPal which I prefer and I have mentioned that to them many times.  I hope they start using PayPal sometime soon and I really prefer that method of payment.  Going to Caboose Hobbies is something to behold if you have never gone there and service is the best, on line or at the store.

So, in my humble opinion it it will take a million dollars or more, (or more) for a good train stocking hobbyshop to survive in the current hobby business climate.  Just the amount of train related products currently for sale is off the charts and trying to compete as a small local hobbyshop stocking all of it would be very difficult.  In this age everyone who walks into the store wants it now, or will order on line and if needed badly will even overnight the shipment.  I don't but some will.  I do miss the local hobbyshop I shopped at many years ago.   Doug

[cacole]

GP-9_Man11786

I also beleive when the average customer hears "We don't have it but we can order it for you" it leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

 

My thought when they tell me that is, "Well, after driving 70 miles to come here and find out you don't have what I need, I can order it myself and save money in the process.  I don't want you to order it for me and have to make another 70 mile one-way trip to pick it up.  I'll let UPS do the driving!"

 

[GP-9_Man11786]

BRAKIE

 

 

Dusty Solo

As a generalization: when Walmart opens up, main street closes down.

 

 

That's a old and well worn story line that's nearing retirement age..Main Street died when customers started shopping at the malls years ago with their lower prices..Main Street stayed business as usual instead of adopting to the newer business methods of competitive pricing.

Even Wal-Mart is suffering from on line shopping as are the other big box  department stores.

 

Actually, what I've seen here in South Carolina is when Wal Mart comes in, the businesses on Main street do close down but then new ones that Wal Mart doesn't compete with come in and take their place. Greenville, Beaufort, Rock Hill, Edgefield, Walterboro all have big box stores on their outskirts yet have helthy vibrant down town areas.

I would love to support my loco hobby shops but, as others have said, they never seem to have what I need in stock. I'm talking about things like ground throws, selector switch boxes. I also beleive when the average customer hears "We don't have it but we can order it for you" it leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

[IRONROOSTER]

BRAKIE

 ...

What happen if somebody shoots down those drones and steals the goodies?

 

 

 

That's when the gun laws will change - NRA or not.  When there's BIG money involved, change happens.

Paul

 

[IRONROOSTER]

Kyle

...Finally, the demise of the hobby shop will doom the hobby.  

 

I didsagree.   Already I and others do most of our buying online and at train shows.  This hobby existed before the b&m hobby shops and will exist after they are gone.

The history of retailing is one of change from the early days of the colonists seeing a ship every 6 months or a year and taking what ever they brought.  To now when you can order online from an array of products too vast for any store to carry and have it in 2 days - tomorrow for an extra fee.

Yes, I too miss the old hobby shops with mounds of products from years gone by sitting next to the latest stuff.  But the old guys have retired or died or gone bankrupt.  But just as RTR has replaced most kits, so will the new retailing replace most b&m shops.

Enjoy

Paul

[BRAKIE]

cmrproducts

And all we have is Internet (with its Drone Deliveries) it would be great to see the Internet companies slowly start to go out of business

Maybe by 2035 we will see a slow down in growth of on line shopping..

Drones..Yes,I can see it now..Order a carry out pizza and your friendly drone will deliver it.Want a 12 pack to go with that pizza? Yup..Another drone will deliver it.

What happen if somebody shoots down those drones and steals the goodies?

 

 

[cmrproducts]

BRAKIE

 <SNIP>.

Even Wal-Mart is suffering from on line shopping as are the other big box  department stores. 

Larry & Others

I probably won't live to see it -

BUT

Once all of the Brick & Morter stores are gone

And all we have is Internet (with its Drone Deliveries) it would be great to see the Internet companies slowly start to go out of business 

BY a new method of purchasing goods - 3D Printers (Replicators) - we just won't need an online store any more! ;-0

I keep reading up on the advancements and they are talking about REPLICATING Food - Body Parts as well as Metal parts

It certainly will be interesting in the future!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

[BRAKIE]

Dusty Solo

As a generalization: when Walmart opens up, main street closes down.

That's a old and well worn story line that's nearing retirement age..Main Street died when customers started shopping at the malls years ago with their lower prices..Main Street stayed business as usual instead of adopting to the newer business methods of competitive pricing.

Even Wal-Mart is suffering from on line shopping as are the other big box  department stores.

[BRAKIE]

Soo Line fan

The reason is pretty simple for those willing to believe what their eyes are telling them. The hobby is just not as popular as it once was.

Jim,I think the younger crowd  is smart enough to know their best deals isn't found in a dirty shop where the grumpy owner watches everybody like they're out to rip them off or that old sad story I can get it next week at full MSRP.

Why bother when its cheaper to order on line as they already know?

There is lots of young faces in the hobby-you see 'em trackside,on you tube and face book and not in hobby shops looking at old dusty stock they have already seen dozens of time.

 I'm 66 and 90% of my hobby shopping is done on line and not in a shop that has stock that's older then  Moses and still at full MSRP.

[Kyle]

It is up to you, the consumer. If you buy from internet stores, then the hobby shop is history. However, if you support your local hobby shop, then they will stay in business.

However, a few warnings: hobby shops can have what you want now, and you don't have to wait on shipping.  Hobby shop owners can be really helpful and provide support for their products. Finally, the demise of the hobby shop will doom the hobby.  

[mlehman]

JOHN BRUCE III

Is the demise of brick and mortar train stores inevitable, or can things be done to keep them going?

I think you answered your own question. Where management/ownership is disinterested, doesn't pay attention to customer needs, and work to keepeffective staff in place, things go downhill.

Where the owner is paying attention, listening to customers, stocking things his customers want, and generally paying attention to customer service, people will drive for miles to shop.

Spreciality retail is a tough business and current trends don't help. But a well-managed store in an accesible location can draw from much further than one might think. And Larry has a very good point about the internet being a tool for the shop owner and not just comptetion. It also reaches customers you wouldn't have on your own and can provide an active relationsip to the existing customer base.

[Paul3]

All non-service "brick & mortar" retail business will go the way of the dodo one of these days.  Just look at the last Christmas shopping season: b&m sales down 30% while online sales were up 30%.  Do the math.

My family's used bookstore just closed this year after 27 years in business.  Borders is gone.  Barnes & Noble is hanging on but for how much longer?  Pretty soon you will only be able to buy an actual printed book from Target or Wal-Mart or your local drug store (and even they are not growing their business these days).

LHS's are also the "canary in the coal mine"...just like all specialty retail stores.  The fact is that our population is becoming more and more used to buying online.  Any product that can be purchased from a phone or a PC will take so many buyers away from b&m storefronts that the stores won't survive on those who don't buy online.

Soon (probably within a generation), the only thing left in retail will be service industries, like hair/nail salons, barbershops, restuarants, dry cleaners, and the like.  It's not a good time to work in retail.

Paul A. Cutler III

[Dusty Solo]

As a generalization: when Walmart opens up, main street closes down.

What this indicates to me is that retailing is under going massive changes with specialized hobbie shops being some of the more notable casualties in this process. 

For various reasons as noted above some train shops will continue & do well. These are the stores that are owned, run & staffed by knowlegable, energetic & enthisiastic people who understand the business they are in & the market in which they operate.

Perhaps years ago it was that a couple of guys, filled with p**s & vinigar, huge amounts of confidence could open a train shop & in a very buoyant market that in itself would carry them into a sucessful business. Now as the years have rolled by, these guys are now crusty old geezers, (as mentioned in a previous post) tired, irritable - resentful of the changes they could do nothing about. Sitting on stock that has become sale-proof because they seem to have held out for full price, that nobody wanted to pay then and sure won't be paying now.

But of the future? Well don't expect some kind of miraculous revival of the LHS - just follow the trends that have developed over the years - there's your answer right there.

Dusty.

[-E-C-Mills]

Couple thoughts:

I think if I were going to open a store, I would locate next to or along with a couple of club layouts say an HO and N club.  The layouts would not have to be that big, but interesting, detailed and well done.  It would be a synergistic space, maybe with a coffee and wifi spot for the significant others.  The idea is you want to create an attraction for people to come in and spend money, even on t shirts, coffee mugs, or railroadania.  As others have also said, embrace an internet presence as well.

Regarding expertise:  I know a thing or two in the areas I am interested in.  However, for example, I have not kept track of modern equipment.  As time goes on, there is more and more to know.  It will be harder and harder to find people who are wide ranging experts in all modelling eras and all modelling technologies and techniques.

[SooLine720]

I am more than lucky to have 3 trustworthy hobby shops in my state of Minnesota. I honestly would rather go to a shop, find a locomotive I like, look at it, then buy it. You just can't do that on the internet. Prices of items can affect whether I buy online or in store though. I just cant buy a locomotive that is 269.99 with sound in a store when I can find it at 199.99 on an online store. Scale model supplies is my favorite shop in Minnesota, due to all of its old stock and locomotives, that are hard to come by nowadays. They also have lots of military models, airplanes, and a large slot car track open on certain days.

[EMD.Don]

I would LOVE to support my local hobby shop more. Heck its located a mere 3 miles from where I live! But they don't stock what I mostly need. Now, I do buy some things from them such as paints, glues, putty/filler, evergreen strip, and brass tubing. But theres only so much of that type of material/supplies that I need. The scenery material(s) and rolling stock I need (for example) they don't carry and won't stock. They have offered to order it for me, but its generally more expensive and I can do it myself for cheaper. This isn't a knock on the brick and mortar hobby shop. I understand they can't cater to me and my needs exclusively. But the internet can. I have a global hobby shop open to me 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and the majority of what I need is always in stock, and generally delivered to my doorstep within 5 business days (give or take). Bottom line (and sadly I suppose) traditional hobby shops have competition from not only other local hobby shops, but shops from around the world. As much and all as I would truly love to fully support my local hobby shop, if I can save money by going elsewhere...I will.

Regards,

Don.

[Soo Line fan]

Here in Detroit, I can remember going to the hobby shop with my grandfather. It was take a number and wait. The place was crowded with kids and grown men. A 1/2 hour wait was not unusual for a Saturday in the winter, even with half a dozen guys working the counter. Lionel was the king but HO was coming on.

Later as I started a family, I took my son to the same hobby shop, not quite as busy but still going pretty good. HO was now the dominate scale.

We had at least 15 full line train shops. All gone except for 4. Trains were once sold in every department and discount store. No more. We had at least 5 magazines primarily devoted to HO, now only one is left. Train shows were every few weeks. Now down to 3-4 a year.

The reason is pretty simple for those willing to believe what their eyes are telling them. The hobby is just not as popular as it once was.  Unless children somehow tire of texting and video games and discover that trains are cool, it never will.

Unfortunately, the best place to get kids interested, the LHS  are gone or will be. And it really is a shame.

[richg1998]

 There is one across the river in West Springfield that use to be more of a train shop many years ago in Northampton and moved to Springfield. No idea if there is one in Springfield anymore. The below shop had to move out of Springfield some years ago when the basket ball hall of fame expanded. Two different cities.

Today, a shop has to have all kinds of hobbies to survive.

Many are not aware how much business experience and capital is needed to buy a shop where the owner is retiring.

A friend of mine does DCC installs for the owner.

http://www.pvhobbies.com/

Rich

[NEMMRRC]

I suspect only hobby shops that advertise on online magazines will remain standing....

 

See what I did there?

Jaime

[BMR777]

Where I live there's two hobby shops that I can choose from that are both within 20 minutes of my house.  There's B & G Train World which is trains only and there is Hobbytown USA.

I think B & G Train World is able to hold on because the Chicago area has a dense enough population of model railroaders.  From B & G it's only a 30 or so minute drive to the Great Midwest Train Show, the largest monthly train show in the USA.

I believe, however, that your Hobbytown USA type store is more the future of where hobby shops are headed.  The key for Hobbytown is that they diversify.  My Hobbytown has a decent sized model railroad department.  The selection could be better, but there are all the essentials there and more.  They recently added a whole new dedicated section to Woodland Scenics products within the last month.

Hobbytown has something for everyone: trains, RC Cars, Planes, puzzles, toys and more.  I think they're able to make a better profit than a trains-only store so they have a better chance at survival.

Even though they have diversification, there are still people there who specialize.  There's one gentleman there who knows about model railroading and there's another guy who knows about the RC planes.  Even though it's more of a general store you can still find someone who knows what they are talking about for model railroading.

[NittanyLion]

IRONROOSTER

Hobby shops are dying.  I've watched the number decline in Northern Virginia for over 40 years.  The train oriented ones that are left are mostly 3-rail O gauge.  There are a few general hobby shops such as Hobby Town around, but they too are decreasing.  I think the future is hobby shows and Internet shops plus a few very large shops in areas with lots of hobbyists.

Paul

 

Why would I wait until Saturday to drive from Alexandria to Fairfax, Chantilly, or Manassass and then find out they don't have what I discovered I need on Monday when I can order Monday night from MB Klein and have it on Friday?

[cacole]

There used to be six train-related hobby shops in Tucson, Arizona years ago -- now there's only one.  All the others closed up shop when the owners wanted to retire and no one would purchase the business, so they sold off everything and locked the doors.

A member of our model railroad club who moved here from the Chicago area a few years ago still has frequent contact with hobby shop owners that he used to patronize.  Some of them said they no longer sell trains, but have switched to radio control aircraft.  They say people are continually crashing their planes and coming in to buy parts or complete new planes, but when a model train crashes nothing is so damaged that it has to be replaced, so they can make a lot more profit off of model planes.

 

 

[IRONROOSTER]

Hobby shops are dying.  I've watched the number decline in Northern Virginia for over 40 years.  The train oriented ones that are left are mostly 3-rail O gauge.  There are a few general hobby shops such as Hobby Town around, but they too are decreasing.  I think the future is hobby shows and Internet shops plus a few very large shops in areas with lots of hobbyists.

Paul

[BRAKIE]

If the shop clings to antiquated   hobby shop business mode then they will closed.

If the shop owner inters the computer age with a on line presence and  uses a e-bay store to dump his old stock then the future will be bright.

[dknelson]

When I look at very old issues of MR or RMC that have the lists of hobby shops by city, I am often surprised by the number of shops that were around in 1955 in Milwaukee that were gone by 1965.  Indeed a case can be made that maybe the biggest die off of shops was in that decade, but each decade since has seen shops come and go, mostly go.  And the big change from 1955 to 1965 was the sheer increase in the amount of model railroad merchandise that was available.  It may have been possible in 1955 to almost literally have a "complete" shop.  That was not so by 1965 and I think it has gotten less and less so every decade since.  Most hobby shops occupy a space that would be totally filled if all they did was concentrate on carrying only structure kits for example, there are so many out there in the popular scales.

I can remember two Milwaukee shops that by the 1970s were almost like museums.  They had detail parts for sale that came from an era when there wasn't much detail, but there they were, selling at a full list price that frankly was never going to be paid, and thus valuable shelf space was dedicated to more or less unsalable goods.  Most of their other inventory was pretty old too -- lots of the old Walthers stamped metal passenger car kits including a few so old it was before Walthers added rivet detail which I think was maybe 1948!   I think there were many shops that were run with that kind of attitude towards inventory (sell it until it's sold) and keeping up with the times that were hit right in the gut by the "sudden" advent of DCC as well as the "sudden" preference for more accuracy and less tolerance for pizza cutter flanges and generic diesels in generic paint schemes.  Those two shops never really accepted N scale as a major scale either.   Both were run by crusty geezers.

I also remember a wonderful shop in Milwaukee that was trains only, run by a crew of expert young modelers and real idealists.   They sneered at Athearn blue box and stocked mounds of more complex kits as well as the most superb detail parts aimed at the guys who spend a fortune redetailing a diesel with new cabs, anti climbers, fans, vents, just the right lift rings, and all the rest.  They also had tons of decals, mountains of Floquil and other paints, because that was the kind of modeling they did.  And when they went out of business and everything was 70% off the shelves were cleared of what Athearn they had, and all the LifeLike grassmats that they made fun of were all gone too -- ah, but all those detail parts and decals and Floquil bottles were sitting there unsold at almost give away prices because they failed to realize that they themselves represented the solid core of local guys who modeled in that intense way -- and they all got big discounts because they were the owners!  

So it is possible for the hobby shop owners to fail both by being way behind and way in front of their customer base in terms of sophistication and  being up to date.

I doubt if it was ever very easy, or very profitable, to run a train-oriented hobby shop.  But I do suspect inventory decisions were much easier 40 years ago than they are today.   Back then the customer was more likely to be pleased by what they did have in stock than irked by what they didn't.

Dave Nelson

[csxns]

GP-9_Man11786

Great Escapes consolidated operations into their Greenville store

Is the Greenville store is good as it was five years ago because i was their then and wondering if worth a trip.

[maxman]

Bundy74

while one in Springfield is good for paint, styrene, and other supplies.

 

What is the name of that one?

[GP-9_Man11786]

Until recently we had three Hobby Shops in the Greenville-Spartanburg area Great Escape of Greenville, Great Escape of Spartanburg and Blue Ridge Hobbies. The just a few months ago, the teo Great Escapes consolidated operations into their Greenville store. Blue Ridge has a great selection but keeps very odd hours. In fact, Blue Ridge has opened an attraction called thr Minature World of Trains in Downtown Greenville and plans to merge the hobby shop into it.

One thing working against hobby shops today is the lack of product availability. Most model manufacturers have gone the "We'll make it if we get nough pre-orders" business model we all know and love. Combine that with things like the Atlas track shortage and you have a seius problem. Empty shelves and nothing to fill them with.

 

[Hobbez]

In certain geographical areas, the brick & mortar store will always live on.  I lived in Gettysburg PA for 10 years and there was a large enough population to support 3 shops.  One mostly railroad, the other two only railroad.  Now that I am back home in central Maine, there just isn't enough of us here to support a shop.  The closest to me now is over 3 hours drive.  And to be blunt, while it's a nice shop, it's not nice enough for that much travel.  Some places the local store will never die, some places it's been dead for decades.

[JOHN BRUCE III]

Does anyone watch the cable TV series Bar Rescue? A big premise of that show is that lots of bars go out of business, but it's possible to change owners' and employees' attitudes and turn them into moneymakers. Whether it's possible to do that with train stores, I can't say, although it simply doesn't help to have a big store with guys behind the counter who don't know what an F7 is (no joke, and this isn't Toys R Us, this is a serious train store). And they resent it when you tell them they ought to know what an F7 is!!

[G Paine]

In Maine, it is more of the same. Hobby shop owners are aging out of the business, they want to retire, but no one wants the business or has the money to purchase their stock. Or the building owner raises the rent to a level that the owner can not make sufficient profit to live on, while getting squeezed from the other end from on-line discount retailers who can easily undercut their pricing.

In the past couple of years 3 or 4 good shops closed and none opened

[Bundy74]

Depends on where you are I think.  Within 1.5 hours of my home (Palmer, MA), I have 9 (off the top of my head) that have a decent or better railroad-related supply, 5 of which are dedicated train stores.  Although I could probably find what Im looking for online, they all have opportunities to find something, and I place orders with the 2 closest frequently.  All have varing stock, and can supply different things.  One right in town is good for parts and cheap finds, while one in Springfield is good for paint, styrene, and other supplies.  

I would also imagine larger stores, such as Caboose in Denver and Des Plaines near Chicago (both of which I've visited) do well because they double as internet stores, not just as brick-and-mortar.    

[One Track Mind]

Dying out and gone. Unless the whole business changes, it is not reasonable to expect any store to stay open much longer. Unless you are in the very largest markets, or also have a large internet presence attached with your store, or you simply don't really need to make an income off of the store... perhaps those can remain open. Everything is stacked against you these days.

I owned and operated a model train shop by myself for 16 years. Closed it down last year. Should've closed it down five years ago, but ever the optimist.... just kept hoping things would get better. They have not, and will not, get better.