Hi Everyone. I live in the UK and have been modelling US Railroads since around 1956 - on and off. Over the last few years it has been off but I am back on now.
I am a great fan of Frank Ellison and have his book from the 1950s. Also, I am the proud possesor of Mixed Train Daily by Lucius Beebe. Hence, I am trying to model a short-ish line in the late steam era. I have two Bachmann 2-6-0 Sound/DCC locos and am using Peco Code 83 track which looks fantastic.
My question is this. I have the intial funds to purchase 20 freight cars. Shipping to the UK is expensive and buying in the UK even worse so I am on a tight budget (I am retired and living on a pension). What mix of cars should I buy (I have one caboose and one gondola already). Also, I quess I should stick to 40' cars but there were some 50' footers around it seems. I was mainly going to stick to the road names that I grew up with - NYC, Pennsy, UP, CBQ etc. rather than all the newer ones (? Like Penn Central - I remember them crashing!).
Any thoughts would be much appraciated.
David
Long Haired DavidA.K.A. David Penningtonmain man on the Sunset and North Eastern R.R.http://www.gmrblog.co.ukfrom the UK
Hi, David!
If you're modeling a specific railroad, whether real or fictional, your freight cars should be at least half lettered for the "home road," another quarter for roads directly interchanging with your home road, and the remaining quarter or less for all other roads. For example, if you're modeling the Pennsylvania and want to buy 20 freight cars, about 10-12 should be PRR cars; 4-5 New York Central, Central of New Jersey, B&O, and C&O; and the remainder from distant roads like the Santa Fe, Southern, or Northern Pacific.
As for the types of freight cars, that depends on the kind of industries you plan to model on your layout, which in turn depends on the part of the country you're modeling. West Virginia will need more coal hoppers and fewer oil tankers than Texas, for instance. The Midwest will need more boxcars (in your era, grain moved in boxcars; covered hoppers weren't invented yet), and the South and West will need more reefers.
Each train will need its own caboose. They can share, but you'll need one for each road freight or mixed train that will be on the road at the same time. If you want to run two trains at once, you'll need at least two cabooses.
Passenger cars are up to you. Depending on your tastes and choice of locales, passenger operations can be modeled with as little equipment as a single car, RDC (rail diesel car), or combine added to a mixed local. Or you can put together a crack passenger liner with four or five modern streamlined lightweights. It's up to your tastes. But unless you have some particular justification (such as a through sleeper on that crack name train), all passenger equipment should be lettered for your home road.
Good luck building that layout of your dreams!
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
David,
Late Steam in the US is usually described as the late 50's There were some short lines that ran steam later, but they were rare. 50' freight cars like flat cars, mill gondolas, and box cars were common, though most freight cars were of the 40' variaty. There was still a lot of 'composite'(wood/metal) cars still running. Accurail has some very nice kits for late steam era freight cars. Penn Central was formed in the late 60's by the merger of the NYC, PRR and NH. Sort of beyond your era. Also, Walthers has some nice cars i9n their 'Mainline' series.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I second Jim's recommendation for the Accurail line, but also consider the later Atlas Trainman line as well - some in affordable RTR form as well as the '37 AAR kits for 40' steel boxcars. There are many options for less-expensive transition-era rolling stock out there now, and if you have the time both Accurail and Atlas Trainman kits (Bowser too, especially PRR prototypes) can be fun in their own right.
Cheers!
Welcome to the forums and back to the hobby.
Your mix of cars will depend some on the industries on your layout that you plan to serve. Would they receive incoming shipments in tank cars, box cars or open gondolas and on flats? A large factory could receive a hopper load of coal for its power plant or a tank of oil, if it had an oil fired boiler. What products do your industries ship, thus what type of car to spot for loading. If your railroad has an interchange track that connects with other roads at each end, it can have most any type car passing through. A team track allows for most any type of load to come in, usually for off line customers.
As for which roads you have, typically most cars come from the home road and those close by. However, if a shipment needed to be sent and an empty was there, it got used. This means a car from a West Coast RR could be found in New England or the reverse. If there is a car that you like, you can ususlly justify it on your railroad.
There are some 3pk offerings that can save you a little bit when purchasing new items. You could go to an ebay seller and choose several cars from one source for combined shipping.
Good luck,
Richard
Your questions prompt more questions than answers.
If your short line is independent of any major railroad, it generally owned few of its own cars in this era. The cars of the major connecting railroad(s) will tend to dominate.
Your location tells what the ownership of visiting cars will be. Your railroad's purpose (business model) tells what commodities are being hauled, and that dictates car types.
In short, we can provide more specific answers if we know more about your railroad's location and purpose.
The Pennsylvania Railroad was the biggest railroad in North America by a number of measures, so you probably need at least one PRR X29 boxcar, no matter what the answers to the above questions may be.
Have you been modeling SINCE 1955, or is that the year you're modeling?
If you're modeling the '50s, no Penn Central it was formed by the Pennsy and NYC in Feb 1968, and the New Haven was thrown into the mix on 1 Jan 1969 by a bankruptcy court. If you are modeling the Northeastern US, all those roads should have a prominent place in your fleet. As others have said, the type will vary depending on what you're hauling. Northeastern roads tended to do a lot of consignment shipping, so you will see a lot of boxcars.
Since you're on a limited budget, I would make out a list of what you want and wait for it to go on sale.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
For late steam era freight cars painted Pennsy I would first explore the Bowser freight cars, although you have to know something about the eras of Pennsy paint schemes to avoid a mistake. The blt dates don't always tell the story, but they have steam era hoppers, gons, flatcars and boxcars of actual Pennsy prototypes. Even in the late steam era the Pennsy X-29 boxcar was still pretty common and is available from a few sources including Walthers.
Bowser, Walthers, and even Model Power have steam era Pennsy cabooses.
For the rest of your roster, for general late steam era freight cars, Accurail has, as someone else has noted above, a very nice selection.
Dave Nelson
Pennsylvania Railroad was an example for modeling the 1950s by Steven Otte. I seriously doubt he's modeling it.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
A shortline will haul cars for online industries/businesses. If there is a team track they'll haul cars for that. A coal dealer would be possible for hopper cars. heating oil dealer for tank cars. If this shortline is not part of a major system (which the 2-6-0's suggest it is not), the only home road cars are likely to be few in number and very old - having none would be okay also. Otherwise, boxcars were most common and could easily be 50% or more depending on your industries and businesses. OTOH a coal mine could use a lot of hoppers.
Of course this is a hobby so if you really want a Stilwell oyster car go for it.
Good luck
Paul
OK so I need to expand a bit. My RR would be a freelance based in the NE USA. I mentioned the Penn Central because I was around in the banking world when it went bad and was meaning to show that I knew it was out of my era. I expect to have 100% other road cars for now as my budget isn't going to spring for custom decals for some time. My thoughts were going along the lines of the general mix as seen on the real railroads. My first idea was as follows:
8 Box Cars1 Gondola (I have one already)2 Coal Hoppers2 Reefers2 Flat2 Stock Car1 Oil Tank CarI Non-Oil Tank Car1 Caboose (I have one already).
This totals out at 22 cars (as I have two). I would expect to paint both the caboose in my road colours.
I am hesitant to tie down the industries yet. I am trying not to do too much planning as I find that I get too detailed and complicated. That is when I start to drift away and another railroad gets dismantled. I guess with a mix of cars, I can make up some boxes to represent industries and play around to see how it works. Over time, I will have more budget so things will expand slowly. Just to give you an idea, I am currently budgeting nearly $2,000 just for 2 locos, 20 freight cars, 10 switches, some flexible track and the baseboard. Fortunately, I have all the NCE DCC stuff plus accessory decoders, etc. I am NOT budgeting for point motors as they would bust the budget. This is for a 12' x 2' railroad.
I am sure that there are some faults in this so go ahead and set me right :-)
Thanks to everyone that has contributed so far.
Papermills would be a solid bet for industries, box cars or flat cars in, loaded with pupwood, box cars out stenciled for paper service only etc. For New England roads you have Rutland, Boston and Maine, Boston and Albany (NYC subsidary), Central Vermont (Canadian National Subsidiary I believe), GT(CN, note different than GTW, same owner), New York New Haven and Hartford (New Haven or NH for short), Maine Central, Bangor and Arroostook, Delware and Hudson (more of New York state than anyplace else).
Are you planning a point to point layout? I believe earlier you said that you had a Bachmann 2-6-0. It should go around 18-20in radius curves, so that should work if you are doing a sort of loop or oval. Accurail freight cars are a good choice for budget and ease of construction, and dependable operation. As your budget allows, replace the plastic wheels with metal and I put kadee #5 couplers on them, it helps lower the car's center of gravity and improves overall operation. An Accurail kit will run you about $13-15 USD. The nice thing about Accurail is they list the build date of the car and any re-shop date in the description. They do not have any tank car kits. Walthers makes some nice RTR cars. Tangent scale models has a really nice one that works for the steam/diesel transition era, they also offer it as an unpainted kit, but I have never built one and cannot speak to its difficulty.
Your freight car selection should reflect the industries your railroad serves.
As examples.
My Summerset Ry serves warehouses,a grocery distributor,a plastic plant and a team track (transload track) so,SSR handles boxcars,covered hoppers,tank cars and gons(pipes),coil cars and bulkhead flat cars (lumber) for the transload track.
Whereas my Huron River serves two grain elevators,a propane distributor,a tire distributor and a frozen food distributor so HR handles covered hoppers, propane tank cars,reefers and boxcars.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
At the risk of being Dorothy Downer, I agree with Brakie. I'm not sure how you can decide on what freight cars you need /want without knowing what industries you're going to be modeling. If you don't have industries that need hoppers, what's the point in having them? Like you, I'm on a tight budget, and I just can't imagine spending money on something that's just going to sit on a shelf.
On thing I do notice on your list is stock cars. While not unheard of, they weren't very common in the Northeast. I would dispense with these in favor of boxcars and reefers.
Steven Otte (in your era, grain moved in boxcars; covered hoppers weren't invented yet),
Cheers, the Bear
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
If the area you are modeling is Pennsylvania, I would have more than 2 coal hoppers, and would hold off on the stock cars until you have a better handle in your industries. Many businesses and homes in that area had coal heat in the 50s. Also, a couple of ice bunker reefers would be a good addition either meat or produce.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
SBX OK so I need to expand a bit. My RR would be a freelance based in the NE USA. I mentioned the Penn Central because I was around in the banking world when it went bad and was meaning to show that I knew it was out of my era. I expect to have 100% other road cars for now as my budget isn't going to spring for custom decals for some time. My thoughts were going along the lines of the general mix as seen on the real railroads. My first idea was as follows: 8 Box Cars1 Gondola (I have one already)2 Coal Hoppers2 Reefers2 Flat2 Stock Car1 Oil Tank CarI Non-Oil Tank Car1 Caboose (I have one already). This totals out at 22 cars (as I have two). I would expect to paint both the caboose in my road colours.
2-6-0's were older engines which means your layout is at best pre-1960 and more like 1930's or 1940's. That rules out Penn Central unless you don't care about anachronisms, then just buy what strikes your fancy.
Assuming you want to be somewhat accurate or you wouldn't have asked the question:
8 Box Cars - all 40 footers, a couple PRR, a couple NYC, a few BAR, MEC, D&H, a couple CP or CN, should be a mix of 9'6", 10' and 10'6' IH cars1 Gondola (I have one already) - a 46' USRA or 40 GS type would fit the bill.2 Coal Hoppers - I would make that 4 coal hoppers, 3 twins and one triple or quad, all eastern roads (PRR, RDG, LNE, LV, D&H, NYC)2 Reefers - 36 or 40 ft ice cooled, maybe one a meat car.2 Flat - cut back to one2 Stock Car - cut back to one or none, stock cars were not that common on the east coast.1 Oil Tank Car - keep it to a 40 ft carI Non-Oil Tank Car- keep it to a 40 ft car1 Caboose (I have one already).
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Dave,A short line in Kentucky had a 2-6-0 right up to 1960,that's when the line cease to exist.
2-6-0s was common in the 50s but,was a dying breed as diesel replaced them..
There probably should be some B&O representation. Their freight car roster was pretty large. Possibly an M26 (ARA) or wagon-top boxcar, and an offset-side hopper.
Thanks for all the help. This has clarified my thinking no end. One point, though. I have 2-6-0 engines because they are availble over here from Bachmann with DCC Sound at a very resonable price. I don't see any other steam loco that is available with the same specification at anything similar so it wasn't a selection for accuracy but a selection by necessity. Plus, they are shorter and will fit in my reduced space a bit easier.
I am looking at the Accurail range. I will come back andtell you what I did.
SBX OK so I need to expand a bit. My RR would be a freelance based in the NE USA. I mentioned the Penn Central because I was around in the banking world when it went bad and was meaning to show that I knew it was out of my era. I expect to have 100% other road cars for now as my budget isn't going to spring for custom decals for some time. My thoughts were going along the lines of the general mix as seen on the real railroads. My first idea was as follows:
I offer some concurrance with several earlier replies. I understand the era selected, and the 2-6-0 is a nice choice for a New England short line (I have one of these locomotives back-dated a bit to fit an earlier time).
Your line would realisitically host a majority of freight cars from nearby major railroads. For the 1950's, there would likely be a larger number of freight cars from the Pennsylvania, New York Central, Delaware & Hudson, and perhaps B&O. Other lines from that area would not be unexpected, such as Maine Central, Boston & Maine, Rutland. The 40-foot cars were most common, with those box cars hauling automobiles inside being some of the first that were longer. There is plenty of variety among the 40-footers with all the different paint schemes, and they do work better for coupling and such on the tighter curves of a layout.
Stock cars in New England would not be common, and I would not suggest having any unless you have some specific plan for a stockyard. The narrow valleys of that part of the country do not lend themselves to large-scale stock farming that would ship by rail. I grew up in Northern Illinois, and even there stock cars were rather unusual by 1960 as increased regulations protecting the animals limited the time that these cars could spend on the road. We know that your line will have to haul in some coal in hoppers to be burned by those 2-6-0s.
I agree with the observations about Accurail. They are decently priced and they roll very well. With proper weathering, they become very nice models. I do replace the Accumate couplers with Kadee on mine, and also agree with that earlier suggestion.
Box cars back then hauled most everything, and were regularly used in hauling grain. It also seems to make a very visually enjoyable train to have a nice string of box cars and refrigerator cars rolling along. Plus, you get to decide what is inside, and thus can position them at most any industry that you wish.
Enjoy! Bill
SBX Thanks for all the help. This has clarified my thinking no end. One point, though. I have 2-6-0 engines because they are availble over here from Bachmann with DCC Sound at a very resonable price. I don't see any other steam loco that is available with the same specification at anything similar so it wasn't a selection for accuracy but a selection by necessity. Plus, they are shorter and will fit in my reduced space a bit easier. I am looking at the Accurail range. I will come back andtell you what I did.
My plan is for the 2 x 2-6-0 and maybe an 0-6-0 yard switcher. I would include some New Haven cars as my best friend lives in Windsor Locks CT so he would be pleased - plus I have travelled from there to New Hevn so have some feeling for the road.
I have the baseboards nearly complete so will post a new thread when I start laying track.
Thanks for all the help.
The 0-6-0 is good, but if you're not dead set on steam a little 44 tonner would also be a good fit for your time and place.
Trynn_Allen2 The 0-6-0 is good, but if you're not dead set on steam a little 44 tonner would also be a good fit for your time and place.
Or a 45-tonner
The Bachmann 0-6-0 is not what I would call Ready-to-Run, It needs some work. But if you enjoy projects its not a bad start. See my thread on the 0-6-0 here: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/231420.aspx
The Staten Island west owns exactly 2 used GE 70 ton switchers one work caboose a gondola and a flat car. All re patched from other roads The point Is you do not have to spend a lot of money getting custom decals. All the rest of your rolling stock can have "foreign" road names as they are only being handled by the SIW. I have several tank cars for the oil transfer station and several well cars for intermodal transfer.
Your cars reflect the industry and era you are modeling.
Joe Staten Island West
Maybe we are putting words into your mouth. As I understand it, you say you mean to represent the NE portion of the US. To some, that means New England (i.e., east of New York State). To others, it represents anything north of Virginia and east of Pittsburgh, or even Chicago. Since you live in the U.K., maybe this isn't as meaningful to you as it is to us, and that's understandable. As I said above, the more specific you can be, the better you can focus. And the better we can respond.
Moguls were well-loved in New England, and were used in great numbers by the B&M and New Haven. Most roads in the rest of the country used larger power, with 2-8-0's probably being the most common type of steam locomotive on short lines, and on branches of the big lines. Offhand, the Southern Pacific is the only large US road I can think of that used Moguls during the late steam years. Wabash used a few in the midwest, and a midwestern shortline called the Bevier & Southern used some 2-6-0's. The Bath & Hammondsport, which hauled wine in upstate New York, also had a Mogul. Six-wheel switchers were common all over the country. In general, it seems to me that your pair of 2-6-0's would probably be most at home in New England.
I hope that helps to clarify the situation.
Tom
OK, so myfirst parcel from Model Train Stuff has arrived (after 2 weeks in UK Customs!). Here is the contents.
This comprises:
8 x Accurail Box Cars1 x Bowser Box Car2 x Accurail Hoppers1 x Accurail (Data Only) Reefer1 x Walthers Caboose1 Bachmann Gondola2 x Athearn Flat Cars1 x Intermountain 3 Dome Tank Car1 x Bachmann DCC + Sound 2-6-0.1 Pack 25 Kadee 148 wisker replacement couplers.
Wow, do I have some fun to come.
Currently sitting in Chicago and due to leave for the UK any time now is a box containing:
1 x Walthers Budd RDC-21 x Bachmann USRA 0-6-01 x Carolina Craftsman Kit Pine Valley Station1 x Carolina Craftsman Kit Grizz's Hidden Gems1 x Walthers Golden Valley Freight House kit
The RDC and the 0-6-0 are to receive sound units on arrival.
I already have 1 x Bachmann 2-6-0 plus 1 caboose and 1 gondola
This should make my re-start into HO turn into a great way to be retired!
See my blog at Gentle Model Railways to watch progress (and roll back to my model railroading history over the last few years.
I am envius! Im a good ways away from retirement and also that 'dream basement' to build my empire in. Stuck with only a small shelf arrangement I too sit and reflect on my 'collection' so far and think.... 'Oh man I have some fun coming!'.
Im also envius that you've managed to keep it within realms of reality. I chose to model a class 1. With 300 cars so far, I am still around 1000 short of what I need. And thats just the home road!
Good luck and Best Wishes on your retirement!!
Hours of enjoyment......
Cheers, the Bear.