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The manufactures are over-saturating the HO market with ES44AC's and SD70ACe's

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The manufactures are over-saturating the HO market with ES44AC's and SD70ACe's
Posted by JORDAN ROSA on Saturday, April 5, 2014 4:24 PM

I have just recently discovered that Broadway Limited Imports will be the 6th manufacture of the ES44AC. Why can't the manufactures create locomotives that have not been done. I believe in competition but I believe that this is going a little to far. I believe the quantity supplied will be much more than the quantity demanded. They don't see the market as a consumer and haven't explored other possible locomotive designs that they can produce and set them apart from their competitors. Why not do a locomotive that hasn't been done in a while like the Dash 8's 9's and AC4400's. Also if several companies want to produce the same run of a product, why wait 3 years to come out with a locomotive to compete when consumers have already stocked up on the locomotives from the other companies. For example, it took several years for Athearn to come out with a competing product to the Intermountain ES44AC/DC and then MTH, BLI, and Bachmann decide to run their own versions. Economically I don't understand why these companies are doing what they are doing.

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Posted by MATTHEW JENKINS on Monday, April 7, 2014 4:07 PM

I agree with you on this. it seems like there are soooo many and you start getting sick of them cuz you see them everywhere. There should be a limit on 3 manf per model maybe. I know that could be a bad thing as well but still 

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Posted by Metro Red Line on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:50 AM

I'm an N scaler, and we have two manufaturers doing these (Kato and Fox Valley Models). I guess that's the equivalent of market saturation in the N scale world, comparatively speaking :) 

The GEVO and the ACE are the most common locos found on today's railroads, so I can understand why every manufacturer wants to get theirs out and market what they feel is the best version of the model. But six manufacturers is pretty silly. I can understand 2 or 3.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:31 AM

It seems to be a quite normal procedure of the industry - wherever you look. Manufacturers will always market those engines they think to be "best sellers". These are usually the ones people see when they watch trains or which are known also to the non-railfan. If manufacturers would cater strictly to the model railroader, we would not have a Big Boy from Rivarossi and Athearn, a PRR K4 from BLI, MTH and Bachmann, not to mention the countless executions of the F7.

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Posted by dti406 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 9:37 AM

Well, for the modern railroaders those are the only two engines that count, so each importer (they are not manufacturer's)  wants to get their portion of the market.

For those of us who model the 70's we can have GP38-2's, GP39-2's, GP-40-2's, SD38-2's, SD40-2's, SD45-2's, U23B's, U30B's, U33B's, U36B's U30C's, U33C's and U36C's. So every manufacturer/importer could carve out their own niche.  

Rick J

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Posted by gandydancer19 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 9:55 AM

It takes quite a while for a manufacturer to produce a locomotive.  They may have all started around the same time, neither knowing what the other one was working on.

However, this may be to OUR advantage, as the market will be flooded soon and sales will drop for individual manufacturers.  So in a few years you may be able to buy one or more of these locomotives cheap.

Elmer.

The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.

(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.

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Posted by up831 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 10:55 AM

It does seem frustrating, but it's really not much different now than any other time.  Back in the late 50s early 60s, the choices were Athearn, Varney, MDC, Penn Line, etc., and each offered just a few locos.  Athearn just had the F7 and the GP7 (labeled as a GP9), and yes, the Hustler, but that was pretty much it.  Today, there are so many more choices.  The Manufacturers probably did a market study and came up with the current offerings based on projected sales.  Each is trying to get market share.  Is it right?  Dunno!  But to maintain their own profitability, they all offer pretty much the same thing.  BTW, there was a time when you could get a brass loco from PFM for $32. That was a long time ago!

Less is more,...more or less!

Jim (with a nod to Mies Van Der Rohe)

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Posted by ho modern modeler on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 10:57 AM

I would like to see an AC6000 DC version for under $200. R.I.P. Blueline. This past year I've noticed that a lot of the older more stagnant (i.e. same-old-same-old) manufacturers have made some effort or stab at bringing their offerings up to date. This should be a good sign for the hobby.

Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!

 

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Posted by binder001 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:11 AM

Personally my choices are a bit more simple.  The video review of the Bachmann showed it to be a POS.  I won't buy from MTH unless they are the last manufacturer on Earth (they don't support their products and refuse to answer emails!) .  That leaves only the Athearn SD70ACe and the Athearn and IM GEVOs and both are quite good.  I wish somebody would update their Dash 9s with a later cab, etc.  Both Athearn and Kato have the older cab. 

There was a similar situation a long time ago.  Everyone wanted an Alco roadswitcher in plastic.  Low and behold we got an RS3 from Smokey Valley, and RS3 from Atlas and an RS3 from MDC. 

As far as BLI?  After waiting for them to produce some non-Pennsy steamers, I won't hold my breath on their new projects. 

 

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Posted by LensCapOn on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:21 AM

I would have run to agree with you except I kept tripping over all these F units on the way.

 

That slowed me down some.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:31 AM

dti406
we can have GP38-2's, GP39-2's, GP-40-2's, SD38-2's, SD40-2's, SD45-2's,

Rick, Every one of those EMD locomotives you mention are still in use today so,they would be right at home on the CSX,NS,BN,KCS and UP.

SW1500s are still very active on today's railroads as well..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


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Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:36 AM

Metro Red Line

I'm an N scaler, and we have two manufaturers doing these (Kato and Fox Valley Models). I guess that's the equivalent of market saturation in the N scale world, comparatively speaking :) 

The GEVO and the ACE are the most common locos found on today's railroads, so I can understand why every manufacturer wants to get theirs out and market what they feel is the best version of the model. But six manufacturers is pretty silly. I can understand 2 or 3.

 

As an N scaler I share that feeling about oversaturation but on Kato's F3's and F7's in ATSF. I understand it's a popular road but if you're going to run them in bulk why just do ATSF, the BN had hundreds, the NP had a lot, the GN as well, UP, pennsy, etc. the list goes on. The only thing a Kato ATSF F7 would offer me is a platform to make Seattle North Coast F7A's #101 and #102, it's a plan in the works as I've secured SNCT Decals. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

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Posted by dti406 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:03 PM

BRAKIE

 

 
dti406
we can have GP38-2's, GP39-2's, GP-40-2's, SD38-2's, SD40-2's, SD45-2's,

 

Rick, Every one of those EMD locomotives you mention are still in use today so,they would be right at home on the CSX,NS,BN,KCS and UP.

SW1500s are still very active on today's railroads as well..

 

I know that and you know that, but most of these modern guys only want the latest and greatest, but my comparison was the newest are the ES-44 and SD70ace, there are not many other choices for NEW motive power other than rebuilds of the old stuff. So while the importers could pick among a lot of motive power in the 70's there are just two to pick from now.

 

Rick J

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:31 PM

JORDAN ROSA
I have just recently discovered that Broadway Limited Imports will be the 6th manufacture of the ES44AC. ... Economically I don't understand why these companies are doing what they are doing.

From a consumer's stand point over-saturation is a good thing.

This same disscussion has been around and around multiple times with different units.  I remember the F units and everyone griping they wanted more modern units, and for a while everyone had a GP7-9, the SD40-2 units, the 4-8-8-4s etc, etc.

 

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Posted by csxns on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:30 PM

ho modern modeler
I would like to see an AC6000 DC version for under $200. R.I.P. Blueline

Same here.

Russell

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Posted by bolter9 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:47 PM

There may be fewer modern locomotive models being manufactured, but with all the power sharing going on, a modeler can buy gevos/aces from multiple road names and run them together, while still being "prototypical". 

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Posted by mobilman44 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:47 PM

Hi!

The mfgs are going to produce what they think is going to be sold - and make them a profit.  They don't give a toot about much of anything else - especially market saturation.   One reason for their attitude may be that their product is better than the competition, or falls in a price niche, or whatever..........

Like most of you, I would love to see other locos being built, like realistic looking IC mountains, ATSF Hudsons and Pacifics, and so on.   But until a BLI or Bachmann or "whoever" feels like they can make money from such a model, it ain't gonna happen...........

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Paul3 on Tuesday, April 8, 2014 7:42 PM

Six ES44AC's?  Athearn, IM, Bachmann, MTH and now BLI...that's only 5? 

As for why, it's pretty simple.  GE has cranked out something like 2900 of these in the past 10 years.  That's a lot.

In the history of diesel locos, the top production numbers are:

 

GP9 4092 1
SD40-2 3957 2
ES44AC 2917 3
GP7 2724 4
AC4400CW 2598 5
C44-9W 2516 6
F7A 2366 7
SD70M 1646 8
S-2 1502 9
F7B 1483 10
RS-3 1370 11
GP35 1313 12
SD40 1275 13
SD45 1260 14
GP40 1243 15
ES44DC 1148 16
NW2 1143 17
C30-7 1137 18
GP40-2 1131 19
F3A 1111 20
SD70MAC 1109 21
C40-9W 1090 22
SD70ACe 1034 23
SW1200 1024 24
GP30 908 25

Note that the ES44AC is the third most made...ever.

But the number one most important reason why so many manufacturers are making ES44AC's?  Beause of the NS heritage paint schemes.  I asked Athearn if they had sent NS a nice thank you card for making these, and they pretty much said that they had.  :)  Note that Athearn dropped the price on their heritage locos after they announced them due to the higher than expected demand.  Other manufacturers want in on the money to be made, and they're going for it.

Paul A. Cutler III

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Posted by bagal on Wednesday, April 9, 2014 4:31 AM

Paul3

Six ES44AC's?  Athearn, IM, Bachmann, MTH and now BLI...that's only 5? 

Overland?

If Bachmann is not great, BLI not yet in production, MTH with DCS, Overland expensive, doesn't it come back to Athearn or IM?

Bill

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Posted by Holshot14 on Wednesday, April 9, 2014 6:00 AM

BLI is going to be pushing their units and "new technology", because they contain smoke generators in the exhaust stacks. Something different to attract customers?

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Posted by blabride on Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:20 PM
SD40-2    3957     

2

Here is the glaring omission. Not only was it the second most produced up to now, but how many of us think the SD40-2 is one of the best looking locomotives produced. Why no one has jumped on this and produced a Genesis quality loco with Kato running abilities is beyond my thinking. Not only does this locomotive span a couple of eras but almost everyone had one.

I know we have the Athearn RTR, the Kato and the Canadian ones from Intermountain and soon Bowser but the first two are outdated and the second two are well Canadian.

SB

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:25 PM

blabride
...but how many of us think the SD40-2 is one of the best looking locomotives produced.

For me - that honor would go to the NYC 4-6-4 Hudson.  But...I'm guessing you are referring to diesel locomotives produced nowadays.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by blabride on Wednesday, April 9, 2014 3:25 PM

Yes diesel. Steamers are a whole different kind of awesomeness.

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Posted by blabride on Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:09 AM

Speak and someone shal deliver-

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/currentflyers.html

There about four on here I am going to need. Let's hope the quality control is better this time.

SB

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:18 AM

From what I've read, the IMR SD40-2's haven't met the ultimage SD40-2 criteria either. IMR is still struggling to establish a quality line of HO engines.  I agree, it may take Athearn to produce Genesis SD40-2's before you see the "last word" in that diesel in HO.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by blabride on Thursday, April 10, 2014 11:17 AM

That is what I am hoping from Athearn. I have purchased 14 Genesis GP's of various flavors in the last year and not only are they accurate and beautifully detailed but they run very well too. Also of all 14 only one Mopac GP38 2 had a problem. It had a  bad light bulb.

But I still will have to take a chance on at least two of the MKT SD40-2 from Intermountain as those don't come around that often. I tried to buy one of their CN SD40-2w but one came without a handrail and the other had a defective light board. They both went back. So I will cross my fingers on this run and hope they correct the qulity control.

SB

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Posted by DavidH66 on Thursday, April 10, 2014 12:23 PM

I can sum up why there is a sudden influx of these two types of units in four words: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units

 

Everyone wants there hand in the heritage unit pie it seems

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Posted by steemtrayn on Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:16 PM

If we can have this,

why not this:

  • Pennsy Baldwin shark

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Posted by blabride on Thursday, April 10, 2014 6:30 PM

Wasn't Pennsy the only road to have the BP20? Also didn't the Pennsy hire Raymond Loewy to also design this to be a diesel version of the steam T1? Don't get me wrong I would have to have one, with my love of the diesel american diesel locomotive.

SB

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Posted by blabride on Thursday, April 10, 2014 6:36 PM

If we are looking for the esoteric, I would rather see these. This looks like another project for Broadway Limited. 

SB

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