To answer you question about the six manufactures. Tower 55 came out with a version that didn't go over very well. So that would make six.
How many SD40-2's
are there out there earning there keep 40+ years later? Including the -3 upgrades probably 2500+ working for not only the Class I's, regonals and shortlines, but alos in the lease fleets by th hundreds.
Ira
According to Diesel shop their are about 1150 left just on the big four. NS, UP, KCS and CSX. That is pretty amazing of course most have been rebuildt like the sd40 3 on the KCS.
SB
blabride Wasn't Pennsy the only road to have the BP20? Also didn't the Pennsy hire Raymond Loewy to also design this to be a diesel version of the steam T1? Don't get me wrong I would have to have one, with my love of the diesel american diesel locomotive. SB
Wasn't Pennsy the only road to have the BP20? Also didn't the Pennsy hire Raymond Loewy to also design this to be a diesel version of the steam T1? Don't get me wrong I would have to have one, with my love of the diesel american diesel locomotive.
blabride Wasn't Pennsy the only road to have the BP20?
Wasn't Pennsy the only road to have the BP20?
Yes, but since the centipedes sold so well for BLI, I's imagine the Pennsy fans would gobble up the sharks.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
bagal Paul3 Six ES44AC's? Athearn, IM, Bachmann, MTH and now BLI...that's only 5? Overland? If Bachmann is not great, BLI not yet in production, MTH with DCS, Overland expensive, doesn't it come back to Athearn or IM? Bill
Paul3 Six ES44AC's? Athearn, IM, Bachmann, MTH and now BLI...that's only 5?
Six ES44AC's? Athearn, IM, Bachmann, MTH and now BLI...that's only 5?
Overland?
If Bachmann is not great, BLI not yet in production, MTH with DCS, Overland expensive, doesn't it come back to Athearn or IM?
Bill
What's wrong with the Bachmanns, anyway? For the price, maybe I can live with the faults.
steemtrayn bagal Paul3 Six ES44AC's? Athearn, IM, Bachmann, MTH and now BLI...that's only 5? Overland? If Bachmann is not great, BLI not yet in production, MTH with DCS, Overland expensive, doesn't it come back to Athearn or IM? Bill What's wrong with the Bachmanns, anyway? For the price, maybe I can live with the faults.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
ML
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA
Metro Red Line I'm an N scaler, and we have two manufaturers doing these (Kato and Fox Valley Models). I guess that's the equivalent of market saturation in the N scale world, comparatively speaking :) The GEVO and the ACE are the most common locos found on today's railroads, so I can understand why every manufacturer wants to get theirs out and market what they feel is the best version of the model. But six manufacturers is pretty silly. I can understand 2 or 3.
I'm an N scaler, and we have two manufaturers doing these (Kato and Fox Valley Models). I guess that's the equivalent of market saturation in the N scale world, comparatively speaking :)
The GEVO and the ACE are the most common locos found on today's railroads, so I can understand why every manufacturer wants to get theirs out and market what they feel is the best version of the model. But six manufacturers is pretty silly. I can understand 2 or 3.
Dan
tallcaptIsn't the ES44 line up to over 5,000 units now? I recall IM producing the UP unit with the 5,000th Gevo nose. I agree it's saturation of the market, but hopefully that will be a good thing for us consumers by plenty of supply, selection, and low prices.
Agreed - I picked up a pair of the MTH NS Heritage units (NYC, PC) for less than the price of one at MSRP via a major east-coast dealer's online sale. I never thought I'd pick up even one of these with DC and sound factory-equipped but I just couldn't pass up on that deal.
Now just hoping for a similar deal on the GE versions in LV and NKP paint! Of course, standard NS paint in either the EMD or GE models would be just fine as well.
Jordan, I sense your frustration, however, I'd like to share a different point of view. I think BLI is a making a great move in introducing their ES44AC for the following reasons: they are bringing to market very unique product, (smoke in a diesel model) representing a protype that many of us see rolling through our neigborhoods. I get what you are saying about not seeing the market as a consumer, but at the same time, you also have to agree that we are finicky bunch and there are not a lot of us to sell to. Companies like BLI have to get it right by bringing products to market that most of us will buy; broad appeal. In other words, if I were Bob Gruuba at BLI, and I'm thinking about the risk/reward scenario I am investing in, (ordering a substantial amount of product from a manufacturer in China who requires a minimum unit amount per SKU, while also taking the risk of introducing smoke in a diesel locomotive) I am going to take that risk by using a form factor, (the ES44AC) that is very recognizable and used by many of protype railroads that we model. The same for MTH, bringing a unique uncoupling/couping feature in a locomotive whose protype is ubiquitous. Taking this just a step further, each of these manufacturers sell us versions of these locos at various price points based on combinations of performance characteristics, levels of detail and operating features. I may get some flack for saying this, but the prototypes you are mentioning, Dash 8,9 and AC4400, are all very similar in appearance and in some cases, such as with CSX 9001, a 9-44CW, started off life as a Dash 8; point is we can use our imaginations, or modify to suite our own taste. In closing I would say that we are lucky that we have several different choices to make when we consider purchasing a popular locomotive and fortunate that we have companies like all that you mention willing to roll the dice and bring us great products.
Man the only "modern power I have is an MTHSD70ACe you guys are making me wanna update with the heritage units lol
I wish someone (preferably Kato or FVM) did an AC6000 in N scale, but Heritage Fever apparently is blinding everyone to potential sales of those modern engines. And how hard would it be for Kato to rework their C44-9W into an NS C40-9W? With something over 1200 examples on the roster, NS modellers probably would buy them by the crate. Scads of money to be made here, if anyone would notice.
Looks like Intermountain released some in the ATSF "Warbonnet" Super Fleet scheme, I'll take 3 of them.
Do the Intermountain ES44ACs run okay? Can they be paired with an Athearn RTR SD40-2?
I'd like to see Athearn finish the D&RGW roster of SD50's. They've done all of them except 5510,5513,5514, and 5515.
Ideally, it would be nice if they were done in the Genesis line but I'd settle for an updated RTR finish; nose gyro lights require needing added.
Proto2000 ran a few numbers, and I have a few in storage for the time being, but as I recall they also lacked road specific details and the coloring was not correct.
No different than every mfg needing to do thier version of the F unit, Big Boy ect. What is needed is more of the "work a day" engines from the steam era, a nice low hood GP7/9 to cover the rebuilds working for so many short lines, GP10 from the Paducah and BN rebuild shops. Or concentrate on making all the details functional. No more fake beacons, all should flash in a prototype manor on both DCC and non DCC models in this day and age. Constant bright LED headlights and ditch lights(if equipted) should be the norm. Lots of room for improvement, and yes, in todays fickle economy, there should be much less duplication between mfg's. Thankfully I am in G scale with a side of HOn3. Don't need much in G, I have plenty and for HOn3, the wonders of Blackstone have chosen to pretty much ignoir anything outside of DRGW, where as I am a C&S and SPNG fan. So older brass engines and kits are on my "to be found" list. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
The reason allot of SD70acs's, ES44ac/DC, F units and others are made is that they sell.
The mfgs. have to make what sells not those esoteric locomotives that have few modelers. Brass builders are the mfgs. Of choice for those type of engines.
Uncle_Bob I wish someone (preferably Kato or FVM) did an AC6000 in N scale,
I wish someone (preferably Kato or FVM) did an AC6000 in N scale,
Broadway Limited Imports are making the SP, CSX, UP, and I think two others.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
The manufacturers can't know for sure what else might be popular until they make it.
It is still amazing how few Pacifics there are in HO considering it was the third most produced wheel arragement in North America. As steam goes, we need more Pacifics, Mikes, Consolidations, Ten Wheelers.....that is what I would buy.....
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALIt is still amazing how few Pacifics there are in HO considering it was the third most produced wheel arragement in North America. As steam goes, we need more Pacifics, Mikes, Consolidations, Ten Wheelers.....that is what I would buy.....
Mike
riogrande5761 From what I've read, the IMR SD40-2's haven't met the ultimage SD40-2 criteria either. IMR is still struggling to establish a quality line of HO engines. I agree, it may take Athearn to produce Genesis SD40-2's before you see the "last word" in that diesel in HO.
From what I've read, the IMR SD40-2's haven't met the ultimage SD40-2 criteria either. IMR is still struggling to establish a quality line of HO engines. I agree, it may take Athearn to produce Genesis SD40-2's before you see the "last word" in that diesel in HO.
So what you are saying the "ultimate" SD40-2 in your mind will be equipped with lightbulbs, Soundtrax Tsunami sound that you can barely hear and McHenry couplers? I'll pass on that thanks. As you can tell I am less than impressed with Athearn Genesis offerings of late (I bought the most recent run of B&M GP7s with HEP). They were great, except for the long list of things I had to do to the locomotive to get it to run, to include completely re-assembling the trucks and gluing in all of the small detail parts that had no evidence of glue on them and were floating around in the box. Oh and I forgot to mention the plastic clips they use to attach the wires to the decoder.
I also own a SD70ace from Athearn Genesis it did not have these problems. I bought it without a decoder because of the above mentioned poor sound performance.
Scaletrains.com is releasing SD40-2s with road specific details. They have already announced their second run. I will let you know how they run, if they come as a kit you have to assemble in from loose parts floating in the box, etc.
Also Scaletrains.com is producing ES44 Tier 4 GEVOs, so I guess that would make 7 manufacturers.
FWIW 2 out of 3 of my Intermountain SD40-2s run flawlessly. My third one may have a warped truck frame, that Intermountain has offered to replace for free (they have offered to let me fix it myself or send it back).
As far as MTH customer support goes, I have never had an issue with getting a hold of them for issues with my O gauge equipment. They have been responsive to both my email and phone inquiries.
As to the manufacturers all making the same things, well they produce what sells. It makes good business sense. Also the research on the locomotives is super easy. They can go directly to Progress Rail (EMD) or GE for locomotive drawings. They can stand next to the tracks anywhere in the US and snap a current photo of any road number locomotive.
I want an EMD SD18 in Chessie System paint. I'm not holding my breath on that one (although it is a valid paint scheme for several railroads and leasing companies). There just were not all that many produced to begin with.
If their new experiment with Loksound works out, Athearn may be the next to switch. Now if they would just get rid of those light bulbs...
Too many ES44s? Well at least there are a lot of the real thing out there. You still see even MORE Big Boys being introduced and I think there have been almost more manufacturers of Big Boys than actual Big Boys that ever existed. The quantities needed to just reak even on a plastic model mean you will pretty much never see a loco that sold dozens in the real works mas produced (there have been exceptions, like those Alco C415s that have been done by more than one manufacturer) but in general for the specials and rare locos you have to look to brass where the higher price of the model can pay for the research and tooling to produce it and they don't have to sell 10's of thousands of them. Mass production manufacturers make what sells, and today's locos sell, Big Boys sell.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Actually is does not completely make sense. If three companies already mske nice Big Boys, and have already sold a lot of them to some percentage of the customer pool, why be the 4th guy and settle for 1/4 of an already deminished market.
Why not try to figure out what else might sell at least as well or better than the deminished Big Boy market and invest in that?
It worked for Athearn and Roundhouse for about 40 years.........
ATLANTIC CENTRALAs steam goes, we need more Pacifics, Mikes, Consolidations, Ten Wheelers.....that is what I would buy..... Sheldon
Sheldon,If they produced a C&O G9 then I would sell all my 77/78 and 94/95 stuff change eras to around 1954/55.. I heard several old C&O men say over the years those G9s was a railroader's locomotive.
Walthers make a C&O wood caboose to go with that G9.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Anybody who has been part of manufacturing on the marketing side and or the financial side need the product being made to sell. There are many ways to know in a few percentage points what will sell. If your wrong too many times you better start looking for another job.
If you cannot turn over inventory then you will not be in business long.
DAVID FORTNEY Anybody who has been part of manufacturing on the marketing side and or the financial side need the product being made to sell. There are many ways to know in a few percentage points what will sell. If your wrong too many times you better start looking for another job. If you cannot turn over inventory then you will not be in business long.
David, respectfully, I have been in business for myself most of my life, I am 59.
I spent the first part of my working carear in the hobby/model train business. I know the numbers in this industry, I still know my share of people in this industry.
BLI and MTH fighting over the same customers is not the best way to make money.
It does not matter how many Big Boys are made by who, I'm not buying, neither are a lot of others.
Bachmann has sold me not just one copy of a given loco, but in many cases, 5 or 6 or more because they have offered "everyday" locos that fit the theme of my modeling.
Who made more money?, BLI selling one Big Boy, or Bachmann selling me nine USRA heavy Mountains, seven 2-8-0's, five 2-8-4's, five 2-6-6-2's?
Based on the modelers I know personally, the manufacturers are leaving lots of money on the table by not offering other products and fighting over the same customers.
Anyone really interested in building a long term business would be doing things to expand the hobby and the market, not shrink it.
Hi Sheldon--
I went through an articulated phase and maybe someday will again, however I do agree that more workaday engines would fit the bill. I have learned to appreciate the relatively compact yet powerful look of some heavy non-USRA 2-8-2 's. See you and I actually sometimes can agree!
Regarding the Big Boy it has often been postulated that it is a male ego and or inadequacy in other areas thing...Why else would BLI have just done more even as yet another "ultimate" full on brass model is coming, again???
I think many buyers just have to have one like others must have a Centennial diesel.
For myself there are certain relatively forgotten 2-6-6-2's that I would rather have.
John
PRR8259 Hi Sheldon-- I went through an articulated phase and maybe someday will again, however I do agree that more workaday engines would fit the bill. I have learned to appreciate the relatively compact yet powerful look of some heavy non-USRA 2-8-2 's. See you and I actually sometimes can agree! Regarding the Big Boy it has often been postulated that it is a male ego and or inadequacy in other areas thing...Why else would BLI have just done more even as yet another "ultimate" full on brass model is coming, again??? I think many buyers just have to have one like others must have a Centennial diesel. For myself there are certain relatively forgotten 2-6-6-2's that I would rather have. John
Yes John I suspect there is a lot we can agree on.
Heavy non USRA Mikes, how about my freelanced ones:
Still unpainted in the this photo, I built five of these from Bachmann Berkshires, similar to but larger than the modern Mikes built by LIMA for the DT&I.
And after doing considerable research on the matter, I concluded, that with C&O or N&W grade trackage, the classic LIMA Berk could have built built as a Mike, with similar specs to the GREAT NORTHERN O-8 Mikes.
And I love my compact but powerful 2-6-6-2's.......
There were 25 Big Boys, there were 14,000 Mikados........
Anyway, the manufacturers are missing the boat. They could be be growing and expanding their own markets, but they are contributing to the stagnation and splintering of the market.
I agree with both of you guys that we need smaller prototype steam. I would love smaller steam but the mfgs seem fixated that only large steam Sells.
But there must be a reason they keep making, big boys, cab forwards, SD70Aces, es44's, etc. The only thing I can think off, it must sell and the bean counters love it.