I can agree with the bullying factor hurts some people. I took a ton of grief for being a model railroader as a teenager, but I always had the model railroad club I belong to to look foward to make that week better.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
SooLine720 Yes, I would also say the hobby is declining. There aren't many teens in this hobby. But for more reasons than one can figure.
Yes, I would also say the hobby is declining. There aren't many teens in this hobby. But for more reasons than one can figure.
Every survey, in any place in time, that has ever been done, puts the average age of model railroaders somewhere between 34 and 44.
When I was a teen (and even preteen) model railroader back in the dark ages of the late 1960's and early 1970's it was not a poplular hobby amoung young people. I attended a high school in an upper middle class area, with over 3000 students and I assure you I knew enough of them to know there was only about a dozen of us interested in model trains.
Again, having worked in a hobby shop from age 14 until age 23, I'm not buying the "young people are future of the hobby" thing. Yes, I worked in the local hobby shop all through my high school years - I knew who at school playe with trains and who did not.
But as explained earlier, my version of the hobby is alive and well here and is my only concern.
Sheldon
Whether a kid stays interested depends on other people. Basically saying, a lot of teens THINK it's "uncool" and would rather spend a day on the cell phone, or playing Call of Duty, than a day building a layout. Of course, not many kids actually give the hobby a chance. Of course I think the hobby is a great one that is very interesting but some people don't, not trying to be negative. Another reason not many kids are in this hobby is because of "bullying." Though I'm not a victim of this, some schools have VERY mean people that like to harrass others because of their hobby. This accounts for the decline of kids. Like I mentioned before, these "bullies" never gave it a chance. They don't realise this is a great hobby that is productive and enjoyable. It is a scary reality that some people don't realise. I'm currently in high school and most of my friends know about my hobby and don't mind it. Sometimes the joke but it's never a big deal. But harrassment should NOT prevent you from enjoying a great hobby. Another reason for the lack of younger model railroaders is the cost of model railroading. The hobby is quite expensive not all people can get a magnificant layout, with lots of rolling stock. I hope this helps, and for all the younger folks that like model railroading, DON'T let other people influence your hobby. I also hope everyone knows that I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just informing you guys about this information.
-Khang Lu, University of Minnesota Railroad Club
ONR FANJust an observation. You long time forum members are constantly bringing up that threads like these cause grief on the forum. Sure they can but so far the posts have been informative. The only people complaining are the long time members who are on this forum everyday. Don't forget that not everyone has the time to be here everyday. I'm lucky if I have the time to surf the forum once every few weeks. Between running a business, the house, the wife and kids there really isn't much time left. Maybe easy up on the HERE WE GO AGAIN type posts? Not everyone was here the last time a thread like this was brought up.
This is where it all started, ONR.
Alton Junction
ONR FAN Like I've already said Rich, when you guys do that it's like the poster is being spanked for asking. It turns new people off the forum when they ask a simple question and get the HERE WE GO AGAIN post.
ONR, go back and reply my initial reply to the OP which was the 3rd reply on this thread.
I never said Here We Go Again or anything like that.
The reason that you continue to disparage me is because I responded to a reply that you made raising the issue of "old timers" saying Here We Go Again. You started all of this fuss, but now you are blaming it on others.
Rich
Catt There are a lot of kids at trainshows buying stuff and asking questions trying to learn from a group of old farts who can't find the time to answer their questions but can sure find the time to conplain that kids are not interested in trains anymore. If you really care about this hobby spend more time sharing it and less time complaining that it is dieing from lack of interest.
There are a lot of kids at trainshows buying stuff and asking questions trying to learn from a group of old farts who can't find the time to answer their questions but can sure find the time to conplain that kids are not interested in trains anymore.
If you really care about this hobby spend more time sharing it and less time complaining that it is dieing from lack of interest.
That about sums up my thoughts.
richhotrain ONR FAN Rich, I'm not trying to slam you guys. I can see how some topics could be annoying to the long time members if they are brought up over and over again but some topics we newbies do find interesting. What DCC system is the best is another one. As a newcomer to DCC I've found those threads that usually end up being a free for all and usually get locked are great sources of info. You old timers need to realize that just because you guys have been here a long time and have seen or done everything it doesn't mean everyone has. If you don't want to answer a simple question then why post here we go again. Wouldn't it be better just to not say anything? This forum is the property of Model Railroader, not you guys so you shouldn't dictate what can and can't be posted here. Thats all I'm saying............ I have only been in the hobby myself for 10 years so I am not who you think I seem to be. You're the guy who raised this issue, not me or any of the old timers, as you call them. What do you care if someone says, Not Again or Here We Go Again. Rich
ONR FAN Rich, I'm not trying to slam you guys. I can see how some topics could be annoying to the long time members if they are brought up over and over again but some topics we newbies do find interesting. What DCC system is the best is another one. As a newcomer to DCC I've found those threads that usually end up being a free for all and usually get locked are great sources of info. You old timers need to realize that just because you guys have been here a long time and have seen or done everything it doesn't mean everyone has. If you don't want to answer a simple question then why post here we go again. Wouldn't it be better just to not say anything? This forum is the property of Model Railroader, not you guys so you shouldn't dictate what can and can't be posted here. Thats all I'm saying............
Rich, I'm not trying to slam you guys. I can see how some topics could be annoying to the long time members if they are brought up over and over again but some topics we newbies do find interesting. What DCC system is the best is another one. As a newcomer to DCC I've found those threads that usually end up being a free for all and usually get locked are great sources of info. You old timers need to realize that just because you guys have been here a long time and have seen or done everything it doesn't mean everyone has. If you don't want to answer a simple question then why post here we go again. Wouldn't it be better just to not say anything? This forum is the property of Model Railroader, not you guys so you shouldn't dictate what can and can't be posted here. Thats all I'm saying............
I have only been in the hobby myself for 10 years so I am not who you think I seem to be.
You're the guy who raised this issue, not me or any of the old timers, as you call them.
What do you care if someone says, Not Again or Here We Go Again.
Like I've already said Rich, when you guys do that it's like the poster is being spanked for asking. It turns new people off the forum when they ask a simple question and get the HERE WE GO AGAIN post.
I think we're seeing a switch in focus on Modling, instead of kit building I think the modelers focus is on super detailing, especially weathering.
cmrproductsWHY - didn't you state that first - instead of complaining? BOB H -
If you ill check I have mention several times I have answers a lot of questions from teenagers during the week of the county fair from basic track laying to complicated DCC questions-where are these supposedly non interested teenagers finding their questions? They must have some interest in the hobby..
You will also see where I have stated time and again the cost of the hobby can be as much as you want it to be.That is my standard answer to those that ask about the cost of the hobby.
When I do answer questions I don't push the high dollar items like DCC or high end DCC/Sound locomotives like many insist on doing.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Catt Seems to me the folks that keep insisting that the hobby is dieing because young people are not interested need to open their eyes and ears.There are a lot of kids at trainshows buying stuff and asking questions trying to learn from a group of old farts who can't find the time to answer their questions but can sure find the time to conplain that kids are not interested in trains anymore. If you really care about this hobby spend more time sharing it and less time complaining that it is dieing from lack of interest.
Seems to me the folks that keep insisting that the hobby is dieing because young people are not interested need to open their eyes and ears.There are a lot of kids at trainshows buying stuff and asking questions trying to learn from a group of old farts who can't find the time to answer their questions but can sure find the time to conplain that kids are not interested in trains anymore.
Catt
I couldn't agree more with your statement!
Finally someone making some sense about this.
Share the HOBBY instead of complaining!
Although I feel that most on here find it easier to COMPLAIN than to do out and HELP others!
And don't suddenly get on here and state that you do help others
WHY - didn't you state that first - instead of complaining?
BOB H - Clarion, PA
richhotrain I just asked my cat, Gracie, if the model railroading hobby is thriving or dying. In doing so, I told her to meow if it is dying or remain silent if it is thriving. She gave me a big MEOW. There you have it. Rich
I just asked my cat, Gracie, if the model railroading hobby is thriving or dying.
In doing so, I told her to meow if it is dying or remain silent if it is thriving.
She gave me a big MEOW.
There you have it.
At long last we have a definitive independent study of the state of the hobby!!!
Paul
Yes,the hobby is going down quickly by the bow and you can already hear the bulkheads collapsing.
bolter9 well said! I come from a long family history of career contractors and builders. I have a 17 year career in web development and while it's been very rewarding, it's all vapor wear! I seek out hobbies like model railroading and cycling that have a physical, tactile nature.
well said! I come from a long family history of career contractors and builders. I have a 17 year career in web development and while it's been very rewarding, it's all vapor wear!
I seek out hobbies like model railroading and cycling that have a physical, tactile nature.
Hear! Hear!
I retired 4 years ago after 40 years in software development/maintenance. I doubt that any thing I worked on is still being used (or can even be found). The nature of the beast.
But I still have the first models I built 42 years ago. And the cars still work
Enjoy
BATMAN Then I asked him if he ever signed any of the virtual cities he had spent thousands of hours creating online. Sheepishly he said they have all disappeared because he didn't renew his account. Nothing to show for all those hours of dragging a mouse around I said. "Nope" was his answer.
Then I asked him if he ever signed any of the virtual cities he had spent thousands of hours creating online. Sheepishly he said they have all disappeared because he didn't renew his account. Nothing to show for all those hours of dragging a mouse around I said. "Nope" was his answer.
Jimmy_Braum...the hobby is alive for those who want to do it.
More than anything else written in this thread so far, Jimmy, your statement is proof positive that some folks spent a wee bit too much time wringing their hands over the future of our hobby. I think it's already safe in the hands of those who follow.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Okay I am going to say my input here. I am a 22 year old guy modeling the Pennsylvania railroad in the 1950's-with no dieseal. I love the steam locomotive and the past. While I do not have the disposable income most other modelers have, I save my money up, and buy what I can as I can( I also have guitar stuff as a second hobby). I love building kits,cars,etc-that;s my favorite part of the hobby. I am the youngest person in my model railroad club I belong to, but I just got another guy my age to join. We had a train show on Sunday, and even through a snowstorm, we still had probably over 200 people walk through the door of all ages (Half of normal-but then again snow storm). I saw a lot of young kids there enjoying the O scale modules, and every person walked out the door with a purchase, whether it was a locomotive, a lowly car, a building or even a book-the hobby is still alive with some people. In the past two years, the club I belong to increased to 16 members-granted a lot are middle age, but still the hobby is alive for those who want to do it.
bolter9There's sort of a cool factor that is growing with Getting back to handi work like knitting, woodworking, modeling, etc. a bit of the geek factor.
I just finished building a small piece of furniture for a special needs person. Something they needed that would have been a lot of money for them to have built commercially. I signed the underneath of it with my name and date. My dad built beautiful furniture that still is in use today in my house, my sisters house and my cousins house. You look underneath anything he built and it might say W.... B.... June 1932. My son was with me when I signed my masterpiece the way my dad did all those years before. He smiled and said "just like Grandpa eh dad". I said yep. Then I asked him if he ever signed any of the virtual cities he had spent thousands of hours creating online. Sheepishly he said they have all disappeared because he didn't renew his account. Nothing to show for all those hours of dragging a mouse around I said. "Nope" was his answer.
Both him and his sister 15 and 12 are spending less time on the computer and video games. My 12 year old daughter is knittng, oil painting, sewing and doing pottery. My son is also getting in to other things and I hope he finds his way to the trainroom.
As they grow their school work is almost all done on the computer. When people come home from work or school I think more screen time is becoming less attractive. I never limited my kids screen time as I thought it was better to just let them get it out of their system. There were times if I thought that was the right decision and I am now thinking it was.
I like to think hobbies like MRR were just going through a lull as the high tech world developed for all of us to discover over the past couple of decades. There is now a blur between work and pleasure in that domain. The excitment and newness is waining much like it did for the space program after the first two or three trips to the Moon. Hands on hobbies and pastimes have had and will continue to have a resurgence as people look for an escape.
Where I live the trainshows and trainstores have plenty of youth in them anytime I'm there. Just look at the copious amount of MRR product there is to buy, it wouldn't be there if someone wasn't buying it. But then what do I know, I still leave my old flip phone on the kitchen counter when I go out. My kids say "what if the car breaks down on you, what will you do then".
"Fix it" I say.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
blabride I seem to have taken the original posters intent totally different. I find myself wondering what things like onboard sound, PC interaction, the role of reality simulation might play in the layouts of the future. I have never thought much about the health of the industry. After all, there are people out there that still ride horses for a hobby. I am sure we can expect a model train industry for quite a while into the future. We do need some more specific threads about how technology will continue to influence Model Railroading in the future. I would love to eventually have sound systems and speakers available for my HO that sounds as good or better than some of the O and G systems out there. I also wonder where 3D printing may take the hobby. These are the things that will not only keep the hobby exciting but even relevant for young people in the future. As far as the affordability, its all relative. It all depends on what you want out of it. Some want to recreate a moment in time and do it as realistically as possible. Which can get very expensive, see Rod Stewarts layout in the new MR. Some just like the equipment and just want to sit back and watch em run no matter the era like myself. Looking at it statistically, some things in Model Railroading are actually cheaper now than they have ever been, considering inflation and increases in average wages and salaries. While some are more expensive. Just like everything else in the CPI. SB
I seem to have taken the original posters intent totally different. I find myself wondering what things like onboard sound, PC interaction, the role of reality simulation might play in the layouts of the future. I have never thought much about the health of the industry. After all, there are people out there that still ride horses for a hobby. I am sure we can expect a model train industry for quite a while into the future.
We do need some more specific threads about how technology will continue to influence Model Railroading in the future. I would love to eventually have sound systems and speakers available for my HO that sounds as good or better than some of the O and G systems out there.
I also wonder where 3D printing may take the hobby. These are the things that will not only keep the hobby exciting but even relevant for young people in the future.
As far as the affordability, its all relative. It all depends on what you want out of it. Some want to recreate a moment in time and do it as realistically as possible. Which can get very expensive, see Rod Stewarts layout in the new MR. Some just like the equipment and just want to sit back and watch em run no matter the era like myself. Looking at it statistically, some things in Model Railroading are actually cheaper now than they have ever been, considering inflation and increases in average wages and salaries. While some are more expensive. Just like everything else in the CPI.
SB
Don't hold your breath waiting for much better onboard sound in HO, the laws of physics as it relates to sound reproduction is a major limiting factor.
Your suggestion that we might examine where the hobby is going in terms of something other than the industry is interesting, but I think many of the reponses did address that. In fact, my earlier response reacted to exactly the kind of issues you bring up, although I did not call them out specificly.
Reality simulation? - like in computer games - no thanks not interested.
Sound? tried it, can't stand it in small scales like HO.
Computers - considered computerized block control and computerized CTC/signaling - decided the old fashioned way was cheaper, easier and more fun.
I do agree with your views on cost. On any kind of large scale, this has never been a hobby for the poor. Costs today are no better or worse overall then ever - I've been at this for 46 years and at one time worked in this business.
Again, what I mainly see is more splintered and widely diverse goals, methods and aproaches to this hobby, which frankly leave me with little in common with many others - hence my comment in the past that I am in a different hobby than many of you.
And sorry for the poor punctuation. Typing on my phone here...
I think there's a resurgance in 30s-40s age group for hobbies. a lot of folks in that age group (myself included at 41) have young families, good incomes and are looking for pastimes that get them off a computer. There's sort of a cool factor that is growing with Getting back to handi work like knitting, woodworking, modeling, etc. a bit of the geek factor.
couple that with the growth of technology and higher quality equipment and you have a pretty enticing Reasons to jump in and build something.
Regarding RTR, it's simply a matter of time. most of us barely have enough time to spend learning scenery and benchwork. RTR is lifesaver when there are too many other priorities in a day.
cost is relative, but overall reasonable compared to any high end hobby.
Where are we headed?
Worst case scenario.
Interest in the hobby falls off so much that most manufacturers go out of business and the ones that stay afloat have very limited offereings. If that happens, the hobby will probably be in much the same state it was in the 1940s and 1950s where there wasn't a lot being offered and hobbyists had to rely heavily on their scratchbuilding skills. Except that they will have the advantage of all the knowledge that has been accumulated for over a half century plus components that never were dreamed about before 1960.
In some form, the hobby will survive, even it is a very small niche of very passionate participants.
When I was young, I started collecting Beatles. But that, especially authentic items, quickly went into the stratosphere of $$$, especially after December 1980. So next it was Star Trek, which took a little longer but now with my fellow Boomers running the market, has also become expensive. Besides, I got tired of friends & family cocking an eyebrow (no, not that one) and asking, "You're HOW old?"...
So I reverted to my 1st childhood hobby, this one. Yes, there's boomers in this too, like my friend Jason over at Rapido; and it will be a while before I can aford a matched set of RTR CN F9A&Bs. But thanks to the hobby I have new skill sets, & can now airbrush & build models from scratch. I can even make complete meadows and mountains out of stuff that others might consider trash, like buiding insulation & furnace filters.
I may never be able to afford a Rivarossi Lehigh Black Diamond set. I can accept that. But just judging from the incredible plethora of new stock as evidenced in the pages of NRM, I'd say the hobby is thriving.
And - for the 'phonetic spellers' out there - it's spelled 'champagne'...
Interesting comments by all. The rancor is normal for such threads. For me, I don't much care where the hobby is in future. I'm in it now, I have been in it a while and have and will continue to enjoy it 'til I'm gone. If you're havin' fun that's what counts. To heck with the future of MRing. "Casting the bones" is just as valuable today as it was in 1155 A.D.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
Hear! Hear! Can't let You guy's have all the fun!. But then again, ''I know nuttin.''
Striped, or is that, Stripe-ed.
mlehmanWe'd be a lot better off sharing tips on how to save a buck here and there, how you bashed something worthless into something useful, or how you managed to find a good deal on something that was otherwise out of reach of your wallet. All this and more will draw applause, instead of brick bats.
Hear! Hear! Standing ovation,whistling and cheering.
We need such a topic twice a year since there are many ways to save money and still buy the better detailed cars and locomotives.