Jerry,
He was probably talking about Labelle #106 plastic compatible lubricating, grease with PTFE. I only use oil on siderods and motor bearings. I take the wheels out and put the grease in the journals. I use it in all my rolling stock.
Frank
bogp40The greatest issue found was the truck itself (these are all 6 wheel). I noticed that about 1/2 of the trucks were twisted/ warped by the metheod of assy w/ those tiny screws into the bolster plate. You will see this by sighting the "axle plane". Many times a simple over twist or resetting the screws was all that was needed. A couple actuall needed to have the metal contact strips (floor mounted light PU) flattened to ride properly on those "screw heads" Yaw of the truck can be controlled by adjusting/ fooling w/ them also.
It took some work, but my Walther passenger cars are finally preforming well on my 28" min R main.
Some trimming of the crossmember helps even if you're above the 24" min R .
The biggest issues were with thr trucks, as other have noted. A good piece of plate glass to set them to level after loosening and retightening the truck assembly screws helps. There is some adjustment possible in the way the screws hold things together, but things are often set wrong here from the factory.
Another issue is that at least some of the truck assembly screws have washers under their heads. If you do have the washers, sometimes removing them lowers the screw head enough so it doesn't hang up when rotating.
About those burrs on the screw head, these were the biggest contributor to the problems I had. Take a file and smooth them down so they glide easily over the contact strip and don't hang up on curves.
Speaking of that contact strip, I've never been able to figure out if the whole thing is supposed to float or if the springiness of the metal is all the give it has. I suspect it's supposed to float, but in many case just seem glued or stuck so that it doesn't and you're left with only the metall's springiness. This doesn't help matters.
As for why some the problems with some cars go away when reversed, it's been my experience this is probably the 6-wheel trucks with the offset bolster pivot. They track differently depending on which way the car is oriented. Tuning will help solve this or you can just leave things pointed the "right way" and live with it. This sometimes applies to 4-wheel trucks, too, so that's worth keeping in mind.
Gauge is pretty crucial here, too, as many issues start with that as a factor. Solving that fixes many things. If not, it's still a good start and the source of the remaining issues is clearer.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
[quote user="Motley"]I have the same exact cars, and the same exact issues as you. I use Kadee #5 and long shank #26 on each car. So when you couple them, the #5 regular shank, connects to the long shank. It gives you a little bit of seperation, but not too much. Do this for all the cars.[/quote
Im with micheal here except I use the "whiskar " 148 med. & 146 long ..... on my 26-29 curves
axel Lube a must, I use a light conductive oil with OK results , I do remember a guy who posted here that a "gear lube paste"was the e-ticket for these axels BUT only remember it was a "labelle " product and DONT recall him useing lighting.....
I do agree , they could or should be better out of the box ....Jerry
Rich,
I have the same exact cars, and the same exact issues as you. I use Kadee #5 and long shank #26 on each car. So when you couple them, the #5 regular shank, connects to the long shank. It gives you a little bit of seperation, but not too much. Do this for all the cars.
The wheelsets I found that sometimes they catch on the underbody, and I use a dremmel to trim the plastic on the underbody.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
wjstix Checking all the wheelsets with an NMRA track gauge is always a good idea.me Sotimes the problem is the trucks being screwed on too tight. Because of this, they derail if a curve has a dip in it. Turning the screw holding the trucks to the bolster back a half turn or so sometimes gives them a little more 'play'. FWIW I've only done some testing of trains of Wathers Superliner and EB cars on my layout which uses Kato Unitrack, currently 31" min radius and No.6 turnouts, with no problems in normal running. (Sometimes when backing up the train it wants to derail at one or two spots, I think because of the way the diaphragms push each other.)
Checking all the wheelsets with an NMRA track gauge is always a good idea.me Sotimes the problem is the trucks being screwed on too tight. Because of this, they derail if a curve has a dip in it. Turning the screw holding the trucks to the bolster back a half turn or so sometimes gives them a little more 'play'.
FWIW I've only done some testing of trains of Wathers Superliner and EB cars on my layout which uses Kato Unitrack, currently 31" min radius and No.6 turnouts, with no problems in normal running. (Sometimes when backing up the train it wants to derail at one or two spots, I think because of the way the diaphragms push each other.)
I too have found quite a no. of issues w/ these passenger cars. Minor tweaking didn't bother me so much. as I waited quite a while for prototypes in B&O heavyweights, w/o all the troubles of kitbashing and replacing car sides etc or having to buy rather pricey brass.
My club layout has 36" min radius, and my troubles are or should be minimal compared to many that try to run them @ that recommended bare min 24".
First off, I automatically toss any "junk" coupler and change out the appropriate Kadee, #5s for these cars. I noticed that that most coupler "covers" (pinned and against steps) were partially glued and that joint had to be broken, breaking a few pins allong the way.
2nd, a few cars would not track and/ or would derail at random spots. Upon close inspection found the trucks mounted far to tight, This doesn't affect swing as much as not allowing the truck to "rock" w/ any irregularities in trackwork. Backing off the screw until proper movement was needed.
The greatest issue found was the truck itself (these are all 6 wheel). I noticed that about 1/2 of the trucks were twisted/ warped by the metheod of assy w/ those tiny screws into the bolster plate. You will see this by sighting the "axle plane". Many times a simple over twist or resetting the screws was all that was needed. A couple actuall needed to have the metal contact strips (floor mounted light PU) flattened to ride properly on those "screw heads" Yaw of the truck can be controlled by adjusting/ fooling w/ them also.
All the axles have to be lubricated as none is present and that is the drag and/ or squeal. I simply overturn the truck add a drop and spin the heck out of each to check the operation.
I have no issues w/ the diaphrams due to the wide radius I run on, but could see potential troubles if running especially backing these on tighter turns. Some may need to use the longer shank centerset either on both ends or if always run in a special oriented consist you could use a long one at only one end to not separate the cars way too far and look foolish.
Running tighter radius may require underframe modification for wheel clearance running down to or less than 24"'
Aside from all these proplems, I still feel these are decent cars and have no regrets, of course I bought these many years ago and only paid $35 ea. no cmplaints. If I had to spend current $$, I may be a bit more perturbed!
Uncoupling cars can be quite the ordeal as they are rather difficult, I reach in sideways w/ a skewer to move the "glad hand" to uncouple if not over a magnet
I hope this helps out to those having such issues w/ these otherwise decent passenger pieces.
Love these, and after some TLC, will run them for hours @ shows with no problems whatsoever
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Four or five members of our HO scale club have bought Walthers passenger cars and have had to make, or attempt to make, major modifications to get them to stay on the track.
Binding of the trucks on the screw heads for interior lighting electrical pickup has been one major issue with all of them. Some of the screw heads had burrs on them.
Some have resorted to Kadee shelf couplers to eliminate the random uncoupling problem, but that really makes them nearly impossible to uncouple when you want.
One set of Amtrak passenger cars continue to have the squeeking wheels, and we have been unable to figure out why. We have tried powdered graphite and light machine oil, but sometimes the squeek doesn't go away.
Others have just given up and put the cars away and stopped trying to get them to run right.
We've never had similar problems with IHC, Rivarossi, Athearn, Rapido, or other brands of passenger cars.
Checking all the wheelsets with an NMRA track gauge is always a good idea. Sometimes the problem is the trucks being screwed on too tight. Because of this, they derail if a curve has a dip in it. Turning the screw holding the trucks to the bolster back a half turn or so sometimes gives them a little more 'play'.
On each end of my "L" shaped "dog bone" style lay out, the main line (Atlas Flex, code 100) sweeps around on a 4' 4" wide space, as close to the edge as possible, so doing the math, I'm just at, or a little under, Walthers minimum. So I guess I can't complain too loudly. I've just learned to stay from Walthers passenger equipment. I also have a few European style cars from Lima, that have detailed interiors, and run great on my layout, and as I mentioned, so do Rapido cars.
Mike
My You Tube
mbinsewi I have many of the same issues with Wathers passenger cars. Once I have the trucks fine tuned as far as turning room, and figure out in which direction the cars runs the best, I can run the train.
I have many of the same issues with Wathers passenger cars. Once I have the trucks fine tuned as far as turning room, and figure out in which direction the cars runs the best, I can run the train.
Mike, thanks for those comments. That is my experience exactly with the Walthers cars.
I should have mentioned that the radius of my curves is 30" and 32". I use Atlas Code 83 flex track and mostly Atlas Code 83 Custom Line turnouts. For my double crossovers (two of them), I use Walthers Shinohara track pieces.
Rich
Alton Junction
My biggest lesson with Walthers was the set of "Big Sky Blue" Empire Builder cars I collected from various sellers over a 2 year period. When I put the train together, I had many issues to resolve. I did things to the trucks and the bottoms of a few of the cars that would cause a true "prototypical modeler" to run out of the room screaming! I know all about what they claim is the "recomended minimum radius", and I didn't have the room for big sweeping curves when I built my lay out, so it is what it is. I ended up using Rapido baggage and observation cars to make the set run decent.
On my Christmas train lay out, Bachman and Rapido cars have no problem with the 22" sectional track. On push-pull commuter trains I run, I use Bachman bi-level cars. No problems pushing or pulling up to 3 cars and a "cabbage car" at track speed. I haven't tried Kato yet.
Now I pass up many deals on Walthers passenger cars, unless it's a "no-brainer" for resale purposes.
Mike.
I just bought a set of Walthers Santa Fe Super Chief cars (non-plated), and I have had the usual issues with these cars as I tested them on the layout.
One issue is with the couplers. Walthers uses those plastic knuckle couplers without springs for hinges. Instead the knuckle pivots on a plastic strip. The result is that it is difficult to couple them, and they easily uncouple, not always and not every car, but the cars can make several trips around the layout without issue and then all of a sudden a car will uncouple. To remedy this issue, I typically replace the couplers with Kadee couplers. For those of you with similar experience with these cars, what type of Kadee coupler do you use? I want the cars to stay close to one another so that the diaphragms look prototypical but not so close that the diaphragms interfere with one another on curves.
Which raises another issue with the couplers that Walthers uses on its passenger cars. While they can uncouple unexpectedly on the layout, trying to separarte these cars by hand is a near impossibility. Try to separate a car from a consist and the car on either side of it wants to come with it. Arghhh.
The other issue is with the wheelsets. On occasion, a car may derail, not always in the same spot but, typically, it will occur on a curve or turnout. The obvious culprit is the track work, but it is not always in the same spot, but it is always the same spot. Another thought is that the wheelset may be out of gauge. Most often, what sokves the problem is to turn the car around, and then the derailments stop. Once the derailments stop, they do not return. Any thoughts on the derailment problem?
When the new cars are first placed on the layout, a few cars make squealing sounds. Walthers says in its paperwork that the "metal trucks and wheelsets must be lubricated before use", using LaBelle #107. OK, I can do that. But on each box, it reads "low friction, nonmagnetic needlepoint metal axles, no lubrication ever required". That seems to conflict with their previous comment. Do those of you with Walthers passenger cars lubricate the point where the axles meet the trucks?
I have one other beef. One car came without the little bag of grab irons. I emailed Walthers since the paperwork says to contact them if any parts are missing. They wanted $5 because they said that I did not purchase the cars from an "authorized dealer". Say what? I bought them new from an eBay store, and this guy is reputable, having bought many items from him before. I thought that was less than classy on Walthers part.
I really like these passenger cars, but it sure takes a lot of effort to fine tune them.