richhotrain Since I started this thread back in late 2013, I should probably update my experiences with the Walthers passenger cars. The first thing that I did back in 2014 was to replace all of the couplers on all of the Walthers passenger cars that I own, 36 in total. I now use only Kadee couplers, alternating medium (#148) and long (#146) whisker couplers on each car. My protocol is to put a medium coupler on the front of each car and a long coupler on the rear of each car. That prevents derailments and snags but does result in a bit of unsightly space between the cars. I finally eliminated, or at least significantly reduced, the squealing on the cars by applying a drop of medium oil (Woodland Scenics) at the point of each axle on each wheelset. To eliminate derailments caused by tight wheel trucks, I have made numerous adjustments to the holding screws. Over time, I have fined tuned these adjustments to the point where deraliments no longer occur. Rich
Since I started this thread back in late 2013, I should probably update my experiences with the Walthers passenger cars.
The first thing that I did back in 2014 was to replace all of the couplers on all of the Walthers passenger cars that I own, 36 in total. I now use only Kadee couplers, alternating medium (#148) and long (#146) whisker couplers on each car. My protocol is to put a medium coupler on the front of each car and a long coupler on the rear of each car. That prevents derailments and snags but does result in a bit of unsightly space between the cars.
I finally eliminated, or at least significantly reduced, the squealing on the cars by applying a drop of medium oil (Woodland Scenics) at the point of each axle on each wheelset.
To eliminate derailments caused by tight wheel trucks, I have made numerous adjustments to the holding screws. Over time, I have fined tuned these adjustments to the point where deraliments no longer occur.
Rich
I am happy to report, in this second revival of the thread, that my Walthers passenger cars work just fine.
Alton Junction
ZebrailsI have one Walthers standard six axle passenger car that will not roll freely on straight track!
Sometimes, the middle axle will interfere with the bolster mounting screw. That screw is very short and can not be overtightened. I occasionally place a tiny dab of Walthers Goo on the screw threads before reinstalling the truck. That way I can leave enough play in the bolster without risking the screw falling out.
All Walthers passenger trucks need to have the axle needlepoints lubricated. I use a tiny drop of CRC 2-26 with a needle-point applicator for this task.
Almost all my Walthers cars roll with little resistance. The inside-bearing Amfleet cars are the exception.
Good Luck, Ed
Trucks askewed. I will investigate this. Thanks so very much.
I have one Walthers standard six axle passenger car that will not roll freely on straight track! What a drag it is to locomotives.
I thought about only complaints to send to Walthers.
John
The first thing that I did back in 2014 was to replace all of the couplers on all of the Walthers passenger cars that I own, 36 in total. I now use only Kadee couplers, alternating medium (#148) and long (#146) whisker couplers on each car. My protocol is to put a medium coupler on the front of each car and a long coupler on the rear of each car. That prevents derailments and snags but does result in a bit of unsightly space between the cars. To solve the space problem, I have often planned to install American Limited Models (ALM) diaphragms, but I have just never got around to it.
To eliminate derailments caused by tight wheel trucks, I have made numerous adjustments to the holding screws. Over time, I have fined tuned these adjustments to the point where deraliments no longer occur. That said, making movements across a bunch of turnouts (Atlas Custom Line #6 Code 83) into the passenger station still requires slow, steady movement to avoid derailments. On my next layout, I will only use #8 turnouts and avoid any S-curves.
Hope this helps.
AntonioFP45 However, when I suggest that the posters try Moly Grease (which contains molybdenum), it seems to be ignored.
I agree, Antonio.
I've been using Dow-Corning Molykote Z® Powder in draft gear, switch points, bolsters and some axle ends for years.
Great Stuff!
Cheers! Ed
Wow, talk about a blast from the past! I was surprised to see this thread resurface but, imho, it's beneficial and informative.
I'll share this.
On one of the other forums I belong to, several members complained about squealing wheels on their Walthers passenger cars. The topic seems to come up at least twice per year.
The usual oil-related solutions are suggested and responded to. However, when I suggest that the posters try Moly Grease (which contains molybdenum), it seems to be ignored. Yet, from my experience with it, Moly is quite durable and more viscous than the Labelle oil products. Additionally due to the presence of graphite, it helps conduct electrical current for units equipped with lighting kits that depend on truck contacts. Even with a large passenger car fleet, one small tube of Moly will last years!
But, of course, each modeler should experiment and see what works best for his/her situation.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
richhotrainWalthers uses those plastic knuckle couplers without springs for hinges. Instead the knuckle pivots on a plastic strip.
I call those couplers, Middle Finger couplers, because instead of a spring they give you a thin strip of plastic that looks like a finger right in the middle of the knuckle and when it gets bent back too much it loses it's shape and fails and you give it the middle finger.
When they fail I replace them with Kadee #5 or now Kadee #148. They tend to fail if held in the open position for too long, like if they are stored in a box and press up against the edge.
I only have Amtrak Superliner cars made in the 1990s so I can't comment on your exact models but I have never had any problems with the wheels or the trucks. I run these cars on 22" radius. They have the swing style coupler mountings so they run fine. They won't run on 18" radius however. I like the cars alot but there is a gap between diaphrams when being pulled which I don't really care for but it is what it is and I haven't really looked into replacing the diaphrams with something better yet.
I have the Walthers 2002 NMRA Track in the Sand beach set which consists of 5 Superliners and a Material Handling Car. It ran fine out of the box on the club layout at the Discovery Cube. The Superliner Sleeper uncoupled a few times due to some bad track on the Wisconsin Central corner, but this was due to the layout being placed on carpet instead of tile. After two guys adjusted the module to be level with the rest of the layout, the train ran fine with no problems.
I know the plastic couplers are junk, but they'll do for now.
Thanks BigJerr
Like most of us here, I learned from fellow modelers, used their ideas and looked for ways modified them to make things easier.
Whether one is using a lighting kit or not, the Moly works very well as it won't ooze out of the jounal and it lasts a long time ( or more accurately, many scale miles).
BIG JERR good info antonio, nice of you to add the roof removel in some detail ,I hate those roof clips, and HMMM; moly w/grafite thats a twist ...good job ..JW
good info antonio, nice of you to add the roof removel in some detail ,I hate those roof clips, and HMMM; moly w/grafite thats a twist ...good job ..JW
dome_lounge Rich, Kadee #321 for Code 100 Rail, #322 for Code 83 Rail. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/380-322 Just drop it between the tracks, uncouple your train, and pick it up when you are done. Jerry
Rich,
Kadee #321 for Code 100 Rail, #322 for Code 83 Rail.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/380-322
Just drop it between the tracks, uncouple your train, and pick it up when you are done.
Jerry
Jerry, thanks for that reference. I appreciate it.
Antonio brings up a good point in "roof removal". This can be quite the pain and "scarey" at best, as some serious damage to the clips and/ or car sides can result if done wrong.
This video may set your fears aside, I was still leary to attempt but does work. Have only damaged one clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr2A-QrqiPc
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
dome_lounge 7. For uncoupling, get a Kadee over the rails uncoupling magnet. When you want to separate the cars, drop it between the rails, slide the cars over it, press them together to get the couplers to separate, and then pull them apart.
7. For uncoupling, get a Kadee over the rails uncoupling magnet. When you want to separate the cars, drop it between the rails, slide the cars over it, press them together to get the couplers to separate, and then pull them apart.
Jerry,
That was all very helpful. Tell me more about the Kadee Over The Rails magnet. What is the number?
1. Disassemble each truck, then ream out the journals using a truck tuning tool. It is a good idea to have two of these, one for plastic trucks, one for metal. Make sure to clean out the metal filings. Put one drop of oil on a Q-tip, and then apply it to each journal. Wipe the journals with the clean end of the Q-tip to remove the excess oil.
2. Check the wheel gauge before reassembling the truck. After reassembly, make sure each axle has some play and rotates freely. Gently file the top of the screws that hold the truck together, as noted by others, there are burrs that must be removed.
3. Make sure the truck sits flat and level, if not, shim using washers until it does.
4. For the bottoms of the cars, as I have no interest in lighting, I remove the metal strip and replace it with strips of styrene of whatever thickness is needed to achieve the required truck/coupler height. Some experimentation is needed, no one size fits all. File the styrene flat and make sure the edges are smooth.
5. Reinstall the truck and make sure it rotates freely; on the Super Chief cars, some of the brake cylinders on the trucks would hang up on the skirting. If that the case, file either the skirting or the brake cylinder until the truck rotates freely. Any hang up can cause a derailment.
6. Like Motley, I use a Kadee #5 and #26 on each car; as the Super Chief has a set consist, this means it can be arranged so that a #5 will always mate with a #26. Check the coupler heights, make sure the couplers swing freely, shim and file as needed.
Good info from the above modelers.
All I can add is:
1. Toss the plastic couplers and install Kadees. If you have broad curves and want close coupling then go with #5s. If you're like me and have to contend with 24" radius curves and can live with a "slight gap" that's not noticeably huge, go with a long shank kadee on the designated front (vestibule) end of each car, and a medium shank coupler on the rear of each car.
2. Forum member (and DCC guru) CMarchan provided a good tip about something often overlooked by modelers. One of my cars continued to derail on curves, even after tweaking, and had me baffled. Carl suggested that I check the heads of the Walthers truck screws for tiny, hard to see burs! I carefully touched each screw and turns out that a few burs on two of the screws were rubbing (or dragging) across the contact spring used for lighting and prevented the truck from swing smoothly. A few seconds with a metal file eliminated the problem.
3. Wheel squeals. I don't use oil in the journals as it tends to eventually ooze out. Since the mid 2000s, I've been using Moly Grease (from Woodland Scenics). Since it contains graphite it lubricates very well, while helping with electrical conductivity for the lighting. It's consistency is similar to that of toothpaste. Since it's viscous, there's no need to dab it on with a toothpick. Hold the tube directly over the journal and squeeze the tiny amount needed to fill it and you're done.
4. Roof Removal. There have been several threads posted on this since more and more modelers are painting interiors and adding window shades/curtains.
The primary message is: "DON'T USE EXACTO KNIVES!" inspite of that recommendation being listed on the instruction sheets of the older run cars. Use the "Twist Method". It sounds scary but it does work. Just take your time.
In a nutshell: Hold the car with two hands, one hand on the sides of each end. With your eyes close to the body, gently twist the shell back and forth until you see the roof lift or pop up on one side or end. Once that happens, stop twisting. Slowly run your fingernail underneath the roof's edge from the lifted section to the opposite end to loosen the rest of the roof tabs. It may take several passes. Once the entire side is up, gently pull off the roof. With this method, there should be no broken tabs. If any tabs did break, just glue them back on with CA. If you encounter a stubborn roof tab that won't budge, use a plastic spade to gently push the tab.
Imho the early run Walthers passenger cars are good units overall even with their minor "pesky" quirks. For those on a budget looking to build up decent looking passenger trains, they're a bargain. Many show up on ebay "new in the box" for prices ranging between $20 - $50.
Geez, guys, I need to thank you, one and all, for the great advice given in response to my issues and questions.
Over the course of the next few days, I will do some further fine tuning on these cars, and I will make a hard copy of all of these replies to keep on hand down on my layout.
Interesting discussion point on the lubrication for the wheel axle points. Walthers recommends LaBelle #107 which I have, but I see that some of you use #106 or #108. I will keep both of those products in mind as well.
Thank you all once again. This is most appreciated.
I know this might not help but I've stayed away from Walthers passenger equipment if I can.....I have the Amtrak Amfleet Cars and I previously had the Superliner cars. The Superliner cars had nothing but problems...the fact that Walthers put minumum radius on its packaging doesn't help the matter. They seemed to derail at every turnout or curve no matter how much modifying I did....I sold them several years ago when they cost about $32 each....they look good but if you don't have a club layout then you may have trouble. The Amfleet cars run a little better but I also have Bachmann Amfleet cars which run supurb even on 22in radius and the Kato bilevel cars run the best of all as they can run on 18'' although I would run them on 22in and higher as well.
Oh come on man, like everybody has room for 48" radius curves.
The only way these cars will run on 24" curves, is using long shank couplers. They just bind on the diaphrams and derail. Even if the trucks don't catch on the underbody frame, which in most cases they will.
But at current new production Walthers prices on the plated versions like the Superchief cars, at $65 each, these cars should run better.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
3 Walthers trainsets, here---an 8-car "City Of San Francisco", a 7-car "Prospector" and a kinda-sorta 8-car "Exposition Flyer". Two streamlined and one Pullman Standard. I replaced the Walthers couplers with Kadee 'whiskers', had to file a couple of corners in streamline skirts, de-burred a few truck screws, turned every truck-mounting screw back a half-turn, lubricated all of the trucks with Labelle 107, gave up on trying to mount the hardware, figuring that it was too small for me to see anyway, and after trial and error, ended up with three good-running passenger trains on my 34" minimum radius layout.
But this is called "Ready To Run", lol?
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
ARE YOU SAYING 48 R Like in a 96" circle , mite as well be running on striate track , BUT cut that in half to 24" and thats where the problems show there ugly Lil heads . Not wanting to step on you're testimony its just these cars should run very good out of the box on 26 ,28,30 and yes the 24" that they claim .. , again sorry if I'm coming off harsh ...Jerry
Last September, I put my "full" Walthers Big Sky Blue Empire Builder on a free-mo layout. As is, out of the box. Pulling it was a set of Walthers F units.
Zero derailments. On 48" curves.
Coincidence? You be the judge.
Ed
I have seven UP city cars (one or two maybe another series) with 2-axle trucks that work reasonably on my 26" or so curves (they look a bit odd but I like the train with its E6 A/B puller. I did have some problems, the worst being a car that would derail often, until I looked close enough to see the corner of the truck was hitting the side skirt when it swivelled. That needed some filing on the sill to create clearance. All these were obtained at some pretty low sale prices at Walthers so I am happy enough.
I also bought three UP silver MOW cars this year (with 3-axle trucks), on sale for $19 or so I recall. These derail lots. I haven't put much attention into fixing these yet. A quick look just now has me most suspicious that the closest to center of the car wheel flanges may hit the center frame beam on my tightest curves (maybe the inner curve of some 7-1/2 curved turnouts. Just sitting in the yard for now, awaiting motivation to address that To Do List item.
I'll refer to this thread when looking over both sets of cars next time, so glad the issue has been detailed here.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
zstripe Bob, Maybe I should have stated, about the size of a pin head for the grease amount. It works for me, that is all that matters. I also use the white powder lub. in coupler pockets. The needle of the axle is what really needs to be lubricated, if the side frames are not true, that only complicates the drag problem. My Opinon and Experience Only. Frank
Bob,
Maybe I should have stated, about the size of a pin head for the grease amount. It works for me, that is all that matters. I also use the white powder lub. in coupler pockets. The needle of the axle is what really needs to be lubricated, if the side frames are not true, that only complicates the drag problem. My Opinon and Experience Only.
Frank
Thanks for clarification, Frank. Didn't think you would "ever" Goob up the journal w/ #106.
Most of my replies are generally tailored to less experienced that may be reading and not as much directly to the OP. That minute pinhead of grease may solve that cronic squeal that sometime oil won't solve, good point.
It's really funny why my set of plated Superliners behaves so well. I have one 24" curve on the layout with a switch in the middle and at one end with grade. The Walthers cars often, but not always derail if being pushed. The problem is with two of the five cars.
At another place is where I have a Shinohara (24"/20") curved turnout and they derail if I took the tighter route. Sure they are just not made for that.
NP.
Edit: Labelle #134 Teflon lubricaing powder for coupler pockets.
I use Labelle 108 oil to lube the Walthers trucks. As others have noted, for some reason a few squeaks seem to resist this intervention and may still happen, but with less frequency. But if there's any confusion about whether to oil or not on the box or enclised lit, yes, do lube the metal trucks as the metal-on-metal contact between the journal and axle end requires it.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
zstripe Jerry, He was probably talking about Labelle #106 plastic compatible lubricating, grease with PTFE. I only use oil on siderods and motor bearings. I take the wheels out and put the grease in the journals. I use it in all my rolling stock. Frank
He was probably talking about Labelle #106 plastic compatible lubricating, grease with PTFE. I only use oil on siderods and motor bearings. I take the wheels out and put the grease in the journals. I use it in all my rolling stock.
Frank, we have 60 club members who most have fooled w/ all these Walther's passenger issues. this is speaking of hundreds of pieces. Some don't care and run them out of the box until they're bad ordered, however most need to go through that tweaking proceedure to have a reliable consist.
We have found although the #106 will work and reduce friction, but any light plastic compatible oil seems to do a much better job in initial rolling quality and on mine has worked fine now for 4-5 years w/o any other work. This is also the case w/ quite a number of other members and the hundreds of pieces. The grease can tend to not allow as free a rolling initially and it can gunk up and add drag in time. These cars are quite heavy and any amount of reduced friction is a plus. I can run 12 cars w/ 2 F- units or 1 E7 w/o problem. The layout is 36" min w/ 42' the norm on mainline radius and no more that a 2% grade throughout, this does help in many ways over many "compressed" home layouts.