M.T.H. Responds To DCC Lawsuit Allegations

[PennsyHoosier]

I'll have to let you folks who know more argue out Mike Wolf's role in the O gauge renaissance. However, what we're seeing now is a potentially devestating situation for the larger model railroading community. We are a sizeable community, but not a huge one. The aggressive actions of one individual/company have wide ranging effects that span the gauges. What we see in O now could be the case in HO later, and so on, and so on. The use of overly aggressive legal tactics in the MR community simply is bad form. It's really too bad because a little restraint could have led to great things.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps we should learn a lesson from Model Railroader and RMC. The two of them are competitors. Each of them trying to earn market share from the other. How do they do it? By both striving to be better, not bashing the other. In fact whenever someone from either retires, there is always a letter from the other wishing them well. There have also been numerous photographs of the staff of both together at various meets and conventions. The result for us? Two superior magazines that are great to read and both are doing well. The result for the hobby? Two great magazines each working to promote and grow the hobby in their own way.

[PennsyHoosier]

GREAT POINT, dkelly. You've captured what I was driving at with the sense of "community" that we model railroaders have.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well Mr Bear, it seems that you are pushing an unpopular position around here. I may be the engine on this train, but I have a lot of people behind me.

Thanks gang!!

For the record, I am not anti MTH, however I do have two major complaints with the company, and am not afraid to voice them.

First is DCS. In my opinion, it's invention has served as the single most damaging "innovation" in model railroading history, bar none. Since it's release, it has divided the O gauge world, and it's resulting patent, has trampled the HO and N scale world. While the Lionel and Flyer wars of the 50's were heated, they did not disrupt the other segments of the hobby.

Second is MTH's propensity for litigation. No other model manufacturer in the history of the hobby, has spent so much time and effort in court, attacking it's competitors. This is an undenyable fact. While MTH claims that it needs to do this to defend itself, it is clearly the opinion of many, that they go out of their way to create challenging situations.

If MTH wasn't so hell bent on destroying Lionel, and just focused on making quality trains, we wouldn't be here having this conversation. Actions speak louder than words, and the model railroading world is not blind. We as vocal hobbiests and consumers are not the ones damaging MTH's reputation. MTH is doing that to itself.

As for me, presonally, I own, and am very happy with, many MTH products, but no engines.

[AntonioFP45]

BigBoy,

Now that was a touchdown![4:-)][tup]

[PennsyHoosier]

This measured responses on this whole thread have been touchdowns. The only fumble was by Mr. Bear

[sundayniagara]

Amen on MTH out to destroy Lioinel! I would, however, like to see a DCS demo when the K4 comes out, as I don't have a lot invested in DCC.
Mark

[Anonymous]

Hey Amedleman:

If your Pennsy K-4 in HO doesn't sell well, don't be surprised. You could produce a "fully loaded" CB&Q O-5 Northern and I wouldn't buy it. MTH has pushed some VERY unpopular ideas at us HO guys, and, read the rest of this thread for yourself, we aren't particularly fond of MTH.

Compitition in HO was very friendly, and more about model quality than the legal doings of your competitors, until you guys walked in.

Stewart, Life-Like, Athearn, Atlas, Kato, and Intermountain all make great locomotives, and I consider them all good companies. Same in DCC with Digitrax, NCE, CVP, and Soundtraxx.

MTH, well now that would be a very different story![:(!]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PennsyHoosier

This measured responses on this whole thread have been touchdowns. The only fumble was by Mr. Bear

When it comes to scoring touchdowns on this topic, it is Jerry Zeman who gets my vote for MVP. Though this has been a good solid team effort.[;)][8D]

[PennsyHoosier]

Bigboy, you are RIGHT! Jerry has really carried the water here. But the team has done very well--you included, my friend.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello guys,

PennsyHoosier, BigBoy, CJM,.....as you know I enjoy reading your posts.

I was over on the CTT forum again. Just as here, a lot of the guys on CTT make intelligent posts while some others "bring out the blowtorches!" As you probably know by now, there is a "Tribute to MIke Wolf" thread running on that forum and some torpedoes started flying.

Since it's been getting "hot" I suggested over there that when posting, regardless on which side of the Lionel or QSI issue one is on, to keep the responses cool and level headed.It is difficult but it's helpful if extreme emotions are not added into the mix! This is what (I hope) Teddybear understands as he is an intelligent but very passionate poster .

The point I attempted to get across is that this is "Not A Personal Issue" against Mr. Wolf! Most of us have never even met him or seen his photo! The issue: The legal & business tactics that he and his company have used in this situation that resulted in the HO & N DCC markets being affected. Plain as apple pie!

Responses like "You're an MTH hater" or "QSI deserves to be shutdown!" don't produce intelligent resposes that we can reply to, reasonably. We're supposed to be enjoying the forum, not getting stressed from it!

BigBoy was being challenged but he's handled it well and cooled Teddybear's torpedo launchers. The CTT guys enjoy trains also and it would be good to maintain a positive relationship with our brethren over there.

Peace and High Greens!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45
BigBoy was being challenged but he's handled it well and cooled Teddybear's torpedo launchers.

I hardly agree with this statement. I think "The Truth of Trains" hit the nail on the head.
Big Boy's inflated ego makes me LMAO! His technical knowledge of trains is above average but his knowledge of business and the legal profession is another story. He can post pictures of all the MTH stuff he owns, but the fact is, he's biased against MTH.

[cwclark]

I got this thing about companies (or anyone) that is sue happy ...you won't or ever see any MTH stuff on my layout....Chuck[:D]

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bill Conner

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45
BigBoy was being challenged but he's handled it well and cooled Teddybear's torpedo launchers.

I hardly agree with this statement. I think "The Truth of Trains" hit the nail on the head.
Big Boy's inflated ego makes me LMAO! His technical knowledge of trains is above average but his knowledge of business and the legal profession is another story. He can post pictures of all the MTH stuff he owns, but the fact is, he's biased against MTH.

QUOTE: LMAO!

...........Nasty Bill, don't you think?!! [tdn]

Anyway.......it's just as easy to say that You're biased towards MTH.

The point I was making is that we can reply to each other without taking a dip in the sewer! Your flaming reply above is a perfect example of what we should not be doing!!

Bill (and Teddybear) whether you're for or against MTH is irrelevant. We're discussing the issues so let's stick to them. If you feel that a poster's facts are incorrect, then point it out to him, intelligently!! [4:-)][tup] You will get a great deal of RESPECT for doing it that way. The "LMAO" and "Inflated ego" GARBAGE is so unnecessary. [V][B)]

A year ago BentnoseWllie and I had a disagreement on what constituted a "modern diesel" locomotive. Turned out that he was correct on his points, yet, he did not insult me! As a result I have the highest of respect for him and look forward to his posts!

UP8998 was constantly hurling "Flames" at other posters. As a result, Bergie did "kick him out" of the Forum. Quite a few Forum posters that remember UP8998 laugh whenever his name is mentioned! [V]

Let's keep the respect! [:)][:D][8D][;)][8)]

[Anonymous]

Antonio, you post some of the most sensible stuff on here. I don't believe I've ever read a post by you where you let your "thoughts and not your brain do your typing."

Any flaming on this thread is unneccessary, especially at each other...

[railman]

Amen! There is a line between disagreements and arguments, between personal attacks and constructive criticism. Although I own neither MTH or Lionel, the discussion between the camps should always be civil- let the facts do the talking.

[AntonioFP45]

cjm89,railman

Thanks so much!

I've been visiting the CTT Forum. Some of the guys on there are friendly and receptive. It's good for all of us to foster good Public Relations with each other across these forums.

Peace and Cheers!

[PennsyHoosier]

I'll post this here--though I could do so elsewhere...

Antonio has done a remarkable job in keeping this discussion focused on issues, not individuals. Thanks for that, my friend. It is no small feat in the currently heated atmosphere.

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks Pennsy!

I feel very honored, by you and the guys especially considering that I myself "screw up" from time to time here as well.

Cheers![:D][8D][tup]

[PennsyHoosier]

Cheers! indeed! [tup][tup][tup]

[Anonymous]

anyone who sues their competitors for no reason is a danger to the hobby. Perhaps we should all just boycott everything MTH. Maybe then they (Mike Wolfe) will then get the message to BACK OFF!!

[Anonymous]

I will never buy an MTH product. and I will encourage EVERYONE I know to not buy an MTH product. It has nothing to do with quality, but everthing to do with giving money to unethical people. I had a whole lot more on this post originally, but it was so full of spit and venum, I decided to remove it. Sometimes it har to hold one's tongue in the presence of such BS as MTH is doing. Too bad, they have good quality products, but such bad ethics.........

[trolleyboy]

[#ditto] I agree with Jennifer one can't help but think the worst of co like MTH.They are hurting the hobby the more they pu***he more other manufacturers will be forced to push back. This will take away from everyone's developement time and further slow down the furthering of our hobby. One also wonders that if these type of suits keep moveing forward what will the outcome be. One super manufacture who can charge what they want? Hopefully not but as some of the smaller guys get squished or scared off by bully tactics the only people who will be hurt are the hobbyists who want to create build and enjoy. Prices on hobby products are spiralling up do to production costs as it is (I understand this)but all this unneccesary legal posturing is forcing even more money out of the companies forced to defend themselves whether they are wrong or not is beside the point, my point is we the hobby buying public will suffer for this so I as a life long HO'r can't even begin to contemplate supporting MTH sorry if this burns a bit but it has to be said. Rob

[AntonioFP45]

BTW guys,

I remember that on the other MTH related thread a modeler with good intent volunteered to have MTH perform a test with their K4 on his layout.

Somehow, it feel through. Anyone know what happened?

[trolleyboy]

I just had one other thought as well with all the bad feelings towards MTH mine included I hope the first arrival of the new HO product from MTH dosen't spark a west coast version of the Boston Tea party! As the old saying (okay tv comersial) you told to friends I told two friends and so on and so on and so on and: well you get the picture[B)] [:D] Rob

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Trolley Boy,

This sitution with MTH has been a hot one for many modelers. It's doubtful, though, that we would have anything like the "Tea Party" since the equipment is so expensive and most of us are on tight budgets. It's back to the old adage that most of us will speak VERY STRONGLY with our wallets

You and Jennifer put it well. Whether we support or dislike MTH's actions, the HO and N scale DCC arenas were hit, but now it's good to see them moving forward again in command control.

For MTH, the sad thing about being the "bad business guy" is that your motives will always be under scrutiny by the skeptics, even if the intentions are not ill willed. As stated several pages back, a number of modelers seem to agree that MTH introducing the K4 was intended to rub salt in the face of BLI and QSI. This may not even have been the case at all, but it seems that MTH further shot itself in the foot with this one.

We should keep an open mind but I admit that it did make me wonder why MTH didn't go for a Milwaukee Rd Hiawath Hudson or other steamer that modelers have been wanting to see for years.

10-4!

[trolleyboy]

Antonio , thanks for the encouragement I felt that I may have come on a bit strong it's hard not to be petty and catty when something truly boils your blood, and yes we will speak with our wallets hopefully the sound of BLI's cash registers will drown out MTH's HO divisions tears.I hope also that BLI and others continue to share resoruces and keep our hobby moving forward I hate seeing us taking two steps backwards all the time. Though when you've shot yourself in the foot you tend to hop around in circles. Besides if the "tea party" were to happen I'm sure it would break some EPA codes. Rob

[gvdobler]

I hope "mike" ends up in the soup line.
Never buy their product.

[AntonioFP45]

Re: BEMF

Got this from member of a DCC forum so I can't confirm that it is factual. Supposedly, the BEMF feature will be active on the Tsuanmi.

I've written Soundtraxx before and received no responses (understandable). But it would be wonderful if this were true as a lot of us do enjoy ultra-smooth low speed control.

[Anonymous]

One thing that wiill allways remain true is what goes around comes around MTH will be affected by its decisions but rather than speak badly again of their buisness practice I can only say I would give up modeling before I would let one single dollar of my money go to MR.Wolf. Terry.