Voyager There have been many comments posted to this thread that assume Testor's decision to close down the Floquil , Poly Scale, and Pactra lines of paint was based on the company's' failure to make a profit from them. Yet none of the company statements that I've seen give that as a reason. The explicit reason given is that the company is closing down old manufacturing facilities and letting workers go in order to consolidate production of its basic lines of paint. The lines to be dropped may well be profitable--but not worth the cost of building a whole new factory and/or continuing to pay current wages and (especially) benefits. At issue, most probably, is the marginal coast of maintaining production rather than actual profitability. That is, the money it would take to continue production would earn more if invested in other endeavors. A decision based on that conclusion is not likely to be rescinded by Testor's; but it might lead another company with excess plant and workers to consider taking over the lines in question. Still, who might that be? As many have pointed out here, the Floquil line, even as changed by Testor's into an enamel rather than a lacquer type of paint, involves complications due to the unhealthy solvents it uses. And competing model acrylic lines aren't likely to buy up the PolyScale brand in favor of their own paints. Only a non-paint model company is a likely buyer: Someone like Weaver models owners whose rolling stock line is complemented by Scalecoat paints. A small company seeking to expand might well find the risk worth taking, given the guaranteed (though perhaps small) fan base, especially if--like Weaver Models--it relied on direct internet sales rather than hobby shops to market its line (I suspect a big reason for the Testor's decision is the demise of local hobby shops, once the chief outlet for railroad paints, and that firm's unwillingness to get involved in direct sales). Sad to say, however, it's more likely that Floquil and PolyScale are going the way of Varney and Mantua. Frank
There have been many comments posted to this thread that assume Testor's decision to close down the Floquil , Poly Scale, and Pactra lines of paint was based on the company's' failure to make a profit from them. Yet none of the company statements that I've seen give that as a reason. The explicit reason given is that the company is closing down old manufacturing facilities and letting workers go in order to consolidate production of its basic lines of paint. The lines to be dropped may well be profitable--but not worth the cost of building a whole new factory and/or continuing to pay current wages and (especially) benefits. At issue, most probably, is the marginal coast of maintaining production rather than actual profitability. That is, the money it would take to continue production would earn more if invested in other endeavors.
A decision based on that conclusion is not likely to be rescinded by Testor's; but it might lead another company with excess plant and workers to consider taking over the lines in question. Still, who might that be? As many have pointed out here, the Floquil line, even as changed by Testor's into an enamel rather than a lacquer type of paint, involves complications due to the unhealthy solvents it uses. And competing model acrylic lines aren't likely to buy up the PolyScale brand in favor of their own paints. Only a non-paint model company is a likely buyer: Someone like Weaver models owners whose rolling stock line is complemented by Scalecoat paints. A small company seeking to expand might well find the risk worth taking, given the guaranteed (though perhaps small) fan base, especially if--like Weaver Models--it relied on direct internet sales rather than hobby shops to market its line (I suspect a big reason for the Testor's decision is the demise of local hobby shops, once the chief outlet for railroad paints, and that firm's unwillingness to get involved in direct sales). Sad to say, however, it's more likely that Floquil and PolyScale are going the way of Varney and Mantua.
Frank
I agree 100%. It's doubtful that any major manufacturer would want to invest the money & resources in taking over the Floquil/Pollyscale line. It would be nice if one would, but we're not likely to see it happen. Due to health concerns it is doubtful that most remaining non-acryllic paints will not survive much longer anyway. But, I think there just might be golden opportunity for a smaller, online, direct marketing type of concern to step in & formulate a replacement line of Acryllic paints. Without having to market through a network of distributors, wholesalers & brick & mortar retailers, the opportunity would seem to be there for direct marketing to fill the void (and likely at a lower price than the current MSRP for Floquil/Pollyscale, because all the middlemen have been eliminated.)
Carl
"I could never belong to any club that would have me as a member."
I don't understand the thought that people who post here should make a decision on when a thread should be locked. Most threads simply fade away when people loose interest. If your not interested in the continuance of a thread, stop reading and posting to it!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626, as mentioned before:
HaroldA This has been debated long enough and nothing we say is going to change this situation.
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
rdgk1se3019 I think its time to lock this thread.
I think its time to lock this thread.
When our hosts make you a moderator, you can do just that.
It was posted earlier that Testors said that the most popular weathering colors could be found in its CreateFX line.
Here's some more information on the CreateFX line of paints.
It's actually two lines, one enamel based, and the other acrylic.
The enamel line has the following colors, and I quote:
As I see it from their online samples, only two colors come close to Floquil weathering colors. The Camo Grey color is close to Milwaukee Road Grey, and the Skin Tone Light is close to Earth. There are no close matches for Rust, Railroad Tie Brown, or Grimy Black. Several colors are only available in spray cans.
In addition, both Floquil and Polly Scale paints are "water reducible acrylics" and "user-friendly acrylics". Neither are enamel or organic solvent based paints. Of the three types, enamel paints are the hardest to clean up, and acrylics are the easiest.
CreateFX also has a line of acrylic paints, but they are only available in an airbrush set and in a set of several colors.
In the airbrush set there are the following colors:
There are no samples available online, but the colors seem straightforward.
There are the following colors in the FX Acrylic Paint Set:
Again, there are no color samples online, but the Flat Desert Tan sounds like another close match for Earth paint, based on the name and the colors of other "Desert Tan" paints.
Also available are several acrylic washes and enamel stains, but I wouldn't consider those paints.
S&S
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
HaroldA rdgk1se3019 I think its time to lock this thread. I agree - lock it. This has been debated long enough and nothing we say is going to change this situation.
I agree - lock it. This has been debated long enough and nothing we say is going to change this situation.
I'll have to agree,,, this discussion is pointless. Its going to happen, no matter how much we fret and complain.
A better thread would explore options to the current situation, instead of the gnashing of teeth.
I for one, have placed my order with my LHS for enough paint to carry me for awhile,, til the dust settles.
Hopefully Accu-paint will get resurrected before I run out of Floquil!
Karl
NCE über alles!
kbkchooch HaroldA rdgk1se3019 I think its time to lock this thread. I agree - lock it. This has been debated long enough and nothing we say is going to change this situation. I'll have to agree,,, this discussion is pointless. Its going to happen, no matter how much we fret and complain. A better thread would explore options to the current situation, instead of the gnashing of teeth. I for one, have placed my order with my LHS for enough paint to carry me for awhile,, til the dust settles. Hopefully Accu-paint will get resurrected before I run out of Floquil!
I think I'll just use whatever I have of the Testors paint that I got for my plane models. Seem like good colors, just don't like the fact that the red is a gloss. Good looking on a P-38J, but probably not on a RS-11.
Accu-paint has already been resurrected - it's called Tru-Color paint ....
http://www.trucolorpaint.com/
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
And why can't this existing thread explore options? I had already suggested other options back on page 6. Where does this Gnashing of teeth come in? All I see here, is people disheartened by this news and expressing their opinions. Those of you who feel this thread should be closed, please go somewhere else where you can be happy with the topic! I am finding good-helpful information here and want the thread to continue.
Mark R. I switched to Tru-Color not long after they came out. A much superior product to anything I've ever used. An extremely fine ground pigment that covers quicker with less paint. I can get a solid white over black in just two coats .... try that with ANY other paint. Their thinner is way too pricey, but I found regular acetone works equally well at a fraction of the cost.
I switched to Tru-Color not long after they came out. A much superior product to anything I've ever used. An extremely fine ground pigment that covers quicker with less paint. I can get a solid white over black in just two coats .... try that with ANY other paint.
Their thinner is way too pricey, but I found regular acetone works equally well at a fraction of the cost.
Tru-Color is the second coming of Accu-Paint. Whenever I had to do any touch up work, I'd try to match some Floquil as close as I could to the Accu-Paint color. It all pretty much blended together after weathering.
I wonder how Tru-Color was able to revive the Accu paint line? Evidently, it must have been a sound business case for the owners.
Jim
As others have explained in great detail, and at great length, even in this "corporate culture" today, there are still small businesses that make a profit despite the financial guidance from some Harvard MBA.
But usually such businesses are privately held and do not have to answer to stock holders for the choices they make. And, also as mentioned by some others, such businesses actually have lower overhead because they have no "corporate structure" to support.
For 15 years I have made a good living from my home office, no secretary, no accountants, no MBA's, no stock holders, virtually no overhead. That means the services I offer my customers are delivered to them at what they see as bargain prices and what I see as high profits.
Someone could buy Floquil and make a go of it, the question is who, how much is it worth, and will RPM sell?
We don't have any of the required info to do more than hope or speculate.
Meanwhile, did I say "Scalecoat" a while back? Made by a small model railroad manufacturer, for model railroaders - no stock holders or "parent company" to answer to.
As for the notion that solvent paints will or should go away anyway - I don't agree - but we had better stay away from that conversation, as it will get me in trouble on here. I'll just say this, I'm a grownup and I don't need baby sitting.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL As others have explained in great detail, and at great length, even in this "corporate culture" today, there are still small businesses that make a profit despite the financial guidance from some Harvard MBA. But usually such businesses are privately held and do not have to answer to stock holders for the choices they make. And, also as mentioned by some others, such businesses actually have lower overhead because they have no "corporate structure" to support.
Sheldon, you've got that right.
Rich
Alton Junction
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Someone could buy Floquil and make a go of it, the question is who, how much is it worth, and will RPM sell? We don't have any of the required info to do more than hope or speculate. Meanwhile, did I say "Scalecoat" a while back? Made by a small model railroad manufacturer, for model railroaders - no stock holders or "parent company" to answer to.
And that is the important point to be stressed here.
Someone could buy Floquil (and Polly Scale) and make a go of it, the question is who, how much is it worth, and will RPM sell?
And, yes, you did say Scalecoat and that brand is worth considering.
"Someone could buy Floquil (and Polly Scale) and make a go of it, the question is who, how much is it worth, and will RPM sell?"
No, they are not going to sell it, since the buyer would be a competitor! Or, have some people forgot that Testor's sells model paint?
pirate "Someone could buy Floquil (and Polly Scale) and make a go of it, the question is who, how much is it worth, and will RPM sell?" No, they are not going to sell it, since the buyer would be a competitor! Or, have some people forgot that Testor's sells model paint?
Companies sell off product lines that "compete" with other lines they own all the time. Ford sold Volvo and Jaguar and is better for it. Those cars are still on the market but not in direct competition with what Ford sells.
Same is true here - very few model railroaders do, or will, buy those other Testors products just because Floquil is not available.
I know I don't buy other Testors products now, nor am I likely to. Those other Testors lines appeal to other segments of the hobby industry - and if RPM does not understand that, then they are mis-informed.
Since this came up, I have traded a few emails with Rick Galazzo at Tru Color Paints. As a matter of fact, he asked to be in my contacts on LinkedIn. Anyway, I found them quite helpful in answering questions, eager to find new ways to expand their customer base, and very responsive in general. Enough that I am in the middle of placing my next paint order with them. Assuming their product is as good as some others have said, I'd say they have at least one new customer.
Incidentally, my scheme for the freelance Bunter Ridge (Albuquerque, Raton Pass, & Bunter Ridge) involves a variation of Atlantic Coast Line purple. They do not have an ACL purple, but in my case I doctor it up anyway (and Polly Scale ACL purple does not look to me much like ACL purple, either). But, Rick said they are finalizing additions to their 2014 product line and they have had several request for ACL purple and was likely to be added. So, they are responsive to the requests they get, provided someone can get them a color chip or panel. In this case, the ACL-SCL Historical Group did just that.
If you go to their web site, the color chart pages are blank. Email them and they will send you a pdf with the color charts, although I think the one he sent me lacks the 2013 product additions.
I'll miss Floquil and to a lesser degree, Polly Scale. I won't use Testors, as I have not been happy with any of their remaining products. The flaw in the theory of not selling the product lines is that doing so will create a competing product. Since my guess is most MRR or RC people will not switch to Testors remaining lines but will seek other products, they are creating or bolstering a competitor by pulling the plug on the products. It may not matter when the beans are counted, but it would be naive (or arrogant) to assume users of the products in question will automatically stick with their product lines.
Truth is, it could be a situation with nothing but negative outcomes, and they are trying to pick the least negative of the bunch.That happens. Heck, it happens to me whenever I pick up a tool, airbrush, or attempt to lay track!
- Mark
Starting with the paragraph that reads, "We've made the decision...............", that response you received is, word for word, what Testor's said in their initial announcement that they posted on Facebook last week. Just a canned response, likely sent out in automated manner to everyone whom has written them.
My only point, if one wants to call it a point, was that a more or less canned response, re-hashing what they have already stated in their announcement, is about all anyone can expect to get from them.
I did not write them. I chose to express my thoughts & feelings both here and on the Testors Facebook page (where to date there have been 118 comments, none of them very positive regarding this decision).
With all the thousands and thousands of model railroaders (and R/C modelors whom are going to lose Pactra) out there, I'm sure you're not the only one who has written to them. Many, many others likely have as well & the more the better.
Really? I think we need some of these now.
Grab all the Floquil you can carry if you must, but once its gone, no amount of wailing will bring back Floquil, Elvis, the Edsel, or 23 cent gas. It's a done deal.
While supplies last as they say.
Me, I'm going with Tru-Color paint. If it truly is the rebirth of the old Accu-paint, then its a better product than Floquil anyway!
Brian, if it were me, I'd be upset that they called me Mr. X!
BrianinBuffalo Adelie Brian, if it were me, I'd be upset that they called me Mr. X! Too Funny! I added that to hide my secret identity. Brian (Rod Stewart maybe?)
Adelie Brian, if it were me, I'd be upset that they called me Mr. X!
Too Funny!
I added that to hide my secret identity.
Brian
(Rod Stewart maybe?)
By the profile pic I would have said Radar Jr.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
kbkchooch
I kind of said something to this effect a few pages ago.
I emailed them twice, the same note came back to me, twice. I should think the people who's job it is to respond to the email the company is getting, are told to only use the note I and others have received.
Like I said earlier, R/C people don't paint airplanes they don't even build; so, Pactra leaving the market place will have no effect there. This is similar to the vast majority here, who only buy RTR stuff, so why would any of them care? All of this brings up this point, again: I don't understand why you who are board with this topic, continuously come back and tell us you are board with it and that it should be locked down!
If I didn't care about this topic, you would not have heard a "peep" out of me. I do care, so excuse me for wanting to talk about it with others who also care!
NP2626This is similar to the vast majority here, who only buy RTR stuff, so why would any of them care?
Why would people who use RTR stuff care? 'Cause some of use buy this stuff, but then strip it down to bare plastic and customize the car or loco, myself included!
Why all the focus on RTR cars and engines ? I used to use WAY more Floquil paint on structures and scenery details, not to mention all my track when I painted it.
Makes me glad now that most all of that is behind me now ....
I've never had a RTR car or loco that was really RTR. There's always some extra detail to add that needs paint. And weathering an RTR requires paint too.
Well....I suppose if a person airbrushes whole cars or locomotives, or uses an airbrush to weather all of their stuff, I guess he could develop a favorite paint brand based upon the different qualities of paints. That person probably uses a higher volume of paints than someone like me who just uses paint to brush detail parts.
I like the way the model specific paint brands of paint, like Floquil and Pollyscale, flow onto and covers these kinds of details. But that kind of application really doesn't use that much paint.
For everything else, like rail weathering, structure walls, windows, dry-brush weathering rolling stock, scenery details, etc, I just use the Walmart acrylic paints for 57 cents a bottle or the Krylon sprays.
- Douglas
If you use paints on RTR stuff, great! How high of a percentage of people who buy RTR; or, ready built structures and paint them is a guess, at best and my guess is they are in the minority. If the demand for these paints was overwhelming, what manufacturer in it's right mind would shut down a high demand product?