BEER!!

[Anonymous]

Hello Everyone,

I need help designing a scene for my model railroad. The scene I envision is a Brewery complex designed along 27" of stright track. and the overall sceen being rougly 18" Deep. The complex I am planning is combination of Life-Like's Fairhaven Brewery, Tyco Center Street Series School. some DPM Modular Wall sections. and some Walthers Grain Bins.

As I have it planed the Life-Like Fairhaven Brewery kit will be poisistioned next to the track in the lower left. To the right of that. I had envisioned a grouping of four Walthers Grain Bins placed in a square. (2 bins X 2 bins)Then further right is the Tyco School Building which is the main offices. Then across the tracks from the school Building in the upper right of the scene would be a building made from DPM Modular Wall sections. Moving Left would be 6 more Walthers Grain Bins placed rectagularly. (2 Bins x 3 Bins) Finally, in the upper left across from the Life-Like Kit would be another building consisting of DPM wall sections.

As I have looked at this. I figure that Life-Like kit is the Bottling plant. Where the beer is actually bottled. Then the Tyco School House is the main office building. What space is left along the front of the scene is reserved for employee parking.

Now I have the following questions.

1. Does my layout of buildings create a sence of a brewery complex, and if so, what building would the process start in most likely and how would the production process flow from where it is started to the bottling building.

2. If I need to make changes, what changes would be reccomended?

3. I know that beer is made from the fementation process of malted barely, hopps and rye. What proportion of these three ingredients are needed and do I have eneugh storage beens planned in the scene to hold it until needed.

4. Obviously the product would move between buildings via a pipeline network. However, would this network of pipes typically be above ground or below ground?

5. This is my rail movements I have worked out, are there any holes I need to plug or any movements I am missing?

In- Covered Hoppers of Barely, Hoppes, and Rye.
Once unloaded cars are cleaned.
Out- Covered Hoppers of Spent Mash, Also known as Brewers Grain. and sent to pig farmers for use as feed.
In- 50 Food Plug Door insulated Box Cars of card board for cartons and Boxes.
Once Unloaded cars are cleaned.
Out- Loaded 50 Foot Plug Door Insulated Box Cars of Finished product
Empty- More 50 Foot Plug Door Insualted Box Cars
Out- Loaded 50 Foot Plug Door Insulated Box Cars of Finished product

As can be seen, the town switcher would be kept quite busy through the day.

6. Anything Else I need to know that I seem to have missed?

7. Anyone have any humorous stories involving Trains or Model Trains and Beer?

Thanks Again.

James R. Mitich.

[ericsp]

Beer is also shipped in 60' RBLs.

[Anonymous]

I see only one major problem- the plan involves no actual beer [:p][;)]

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

I see only one major problem- the plan involves no actual beer [:p][;)]

I agree. That's why I came here.

On that note, to answer your question, for shipping you could use container refers on chassis. Walthers and I think Proto West A-Line makes the chassis for the containers.

[nslakediv]

I seen a commercial on TV and I cant remember what brand of beer it was, but they said they were the only beer that was shipped in refers, all others are shipped at what ever outside temp was. food for thought. I have plenty of trains and beer stories, I just dont remember them.

[tpatrick]

nslakediv, that would be Coors. They make it a selling point that their brew stays cold from their warehouse to your frig. It reminds me of about 25 years ago, when I was pilot in the Navy. Coors wasn't available nationwide because they limited distribution in order to ensure freshness of the product. So, anytime a plane flew west out of Norfolk, it was a requirement that the return trip be loaded with cold Coors. The P-3s and the transports flew a lot of westbound "training" flights in those days. I was in helicopters, so Colorado was a bit out of the way for me.

[vsmith]

You've done your homework, I'm impressed.

Overall I dont see anything wrong with your layout.

In regards to question #1. Process: Theres a big brewey in Irwindale here that has a rail service. It basicaly is served by a single branch off the secondary track on the mainline. this splits into a Y one leg along the track front to a open dock with an overhead crane and is used for equipment deliveries. the main storage fermentation tanks are parallel to this dock. the second leg goes to a small yard of about 5 tracks where the grain hoppers and boxcars are stored. I beleive that 3 tracks are for shipping 2 for holding and with one right next to the building for loading. The other two tracks (farthest away) are for grain deliveryand I beleive the grian unloading is farther back than the loading dock. In other words, grain comes in at the rear of the siding, mashed, then sent to the fermantation tanks at the front (assuming your mainline is the "front" and this is next to it) then to the loading area at the front of the siding. Dont forget there a lot of this being shipped by truck also but those docks are on the other side of the building.

Bear in mind that most of this operation can only be seen from the freeway.

Question #3: Beer is mostly Barley and Rye, for modeling purposes you can assume a 50/50 ratio these will be your main storage bins, Hops are surprisingly a very small part of the ingrediants but very important they give the beer its flavor. So they only need a small bin and might be inside the building itself.

#4: There are pipes and ducts EVERYWHERE outside of the main building, these pipes would never be buried because of maintainence and health dept issues.

This brewery has a road railer for moving cars around, I would have a dedicated company switcher like MDC's new critter model.

I have lots of stories about Beer, but they dont include model trains...Good luck, Vic

[vsmith]

One other thing I would suggest, find a regional brewery near you, most have a rail service. Go there and then study how the plant is layed out, might be worth a day trip.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Vic.

Thanks for your input. A couple minor questions then.

Given the comparitivly small quantities of Hops Needed, I assume it would most likely be delivered by truck in that case?

Then since the quantities of Barely and Rye, are esentially 50/50 quantied, Would it behoove me to add two more bins to the group of 4 So I can clearly say that one set is for the Barely, and the other set is for the Rye?

I will have to think about the company switcher thing, as the way the scene is designed to fit into the overall town I am planning, there really isn't any place to park the cars for pick up and delivery until you get to the railroad yard in town. So I will have to think on it.

Thanks again Vic. You have been of great help and told me several things I didn't know. This will help me better execute this project when get going on it.

Sincerely,

James R. Mitich

[Anonymous]

There's a Schlitz semi, first class HO tractor/trailer out there.

If interested I will back track and get you the Vendor and I mean $ first class.

[Anonymous]

Thats Ok Chuck. The beer is being named after the model kit that sparked this project. Life-Like's Fairhaven Brewery. I will call the ale "Fairhaven's Best"

James

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

Thats Ok Chuck. The beer is being named after the model kit that sparked this project. Life-Like's Fairhaven Brewery. I will call the ale "Fairhaven's Best"

James

For those thirsty S C H L I T Z fans(21 & over)
http://www.ulrichmodels.com/trucks.asp

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

Thanks Vic.

Thanks for your input. A couple minor questions then.

Given the comparitivly small quantities of Hops Needed, I assume it would most likely be delivered by truck in that case?

Then since the quantities of Barely and Rye, are esentially 50/50 quantied, Would it behoove me to add two more bins to the group of 4 So I can clearly say that one set is for the Barely, and the other set is for the Rye?

I will have to think about the company switcher thing, as the way the scene is designed to fit into the overall town I am planning, there really isn't any place to park the cars for pick up and delivery until you get to the railroad yard in town. So I will have to think on it.

Thanks again Vic. You have been of great help and told me several things I didn't know. This will help me better execute this project when get going on it.

Sincerely,

James R. Mitich

Hops on trucks? If its based on today, yes, truck delivery would be likely. If its based on mid-century then rail boxcar would be more likely. Remember that at the facility I'm describing you would have maybe 10 car loads of barley for each car loads of hops. I like the 2+2 storage idea if you have room for it. No Switcher? how about a road-railer parked next to the tracks? The Miller Brewey in Irwindale has its cars switched in by BNSF and spotted in the siding, from there they are moved by the road railer if needed.

[Wdlgln005]

For added interest, allow some % of inbound cars to be rejected for damage in transit. Even the animal feed could be bagged and shipped in boxcars. A big question come from the size of the grain bins, so that if 2 cars fill it with product, wouuld you have space to spot 1-2 cars a day for unloading, then get the empties out of the way to unload 2 more. The first connection comes from a pit under the track- or have the unloading area slightly elevated so that a crewman can make connections easier. Another option is to have a wheel loader nearby to pick up any spilled cargo. You will want to keep this area clean to keep any critters away!

I'd not worry about employee parking. Keep an area open for visitors. A truck for local delivery. Put a label on the grain bin. Have fun with your model !

[Allen Jenkins]

Water, weights about eight pounds, per gallon, and so, who's into your water? Hops, grains, malts, barley, 59,000 cans, per truckload...so many miles down the pike, a state trooper, and a motorist, going through the motions, with a fat man, jogging by, wasting time, 'cause Dr. Phil is on his *** about overweight conditions....and...so, acj.

[twhite]

Wow, what a cool subject! Actually, I'm planning a small brewery operation on my railroad, since I run it through the Sierra Nevada, which is known for it's cool, clear water (at least back during the 1940's). When I say small, I say LOCAL, because during WWII, the area I model was full of small local breweries that aimed their product just at the surrounding towns--similar to today's "Microbrews" in America, or the local brews that have existed for eons in Germany (anyone ever try to get your local import store to acquire "Schlossquell" from Heidelberg? Can't be done, but it's the BEST darned beer you've ever tasted in your life!) For hauling, I've already got some older wooden reefers, and I think it can be done with only a short siding and a couple of small buildings. I know that way back when, IHC offered a small German brewery that could be adapted pretty well. Keep up the research, guys. I'm all ears (and plans).

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for all your input.

James

[Anonymous]

Since I first dreamed up this little project. My era has shifted from more or less 1990s to the present day to 1969. I am wondering would there be any fundamental changes I should consider now that I have changed eras?

James

[trainfreek92]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nslakediv

I seen a commercial on TV and I cant remember what brand of beer it was, but they said they were the only beer that was shipped in refers, all others are shipped at what ever outside temp was. food for thought. I have plenty of trains and beer stories, I just dont remember them.

It was Coars beer (based in the colarado rockies) Not sure if that helped but..... The say its shipped ice cold. Tim

[MisterBeasley]

How good is the well water on your layout? Can the brewery use what comes out of the tap, or do they need a tank for water and maybe the occasional tank car to bring it in? Not every brewery has the advantage of being able to use what comes out of the ground (like Bear Whiz Beer - it's in the water!)

Breweries often make several different brands, so you have the option of being able to select from a wide variety of beer reefers. This site is a lot of fun for that:

http://www.hobeercars.com/manufacturers/greenway.html

Just for fun, you might want to put some pretzel "logs" on a flat car to roll out in front of your admiring friends as they sample the local product.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley
Just for fun, you might want to put some pretzel "logs" on a flat car to roll out in front of your admiring friends as they sample the local product.

[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

I will have to keep that in mind. Thats pretty good.

James

[waltersrails]

sounds like a good plan and the kitbashing sounds good as well

[colvinbackshop]

Great thread, and from what I've read so far, all really great information.
I too, model a brewery and along the way I've come up with a bit of knowledge, discovering what happens at a regional brewery in New Ulm.
Remember that we need Malt..as in malted barley. One of you buildings could do the malting and mash (primary fermentation) process and another the ageing/conditioning and bottling. Often over looked in the beer making process is the wash building, both for the returning kegs and let us remember that in 196 returnable bottles were the going thing. Also, breweries need a lot of heat, remember a boiler house, or at least a goody stack, and depending on the size of your brewery, you may also want to model a water tower.
RE: Hops...Fresh hops, especially in the 60's would have arrived by rail in iced reefers, mostly from the North West Coast. Even pelletized hops retain freshness best when refrigerated, so I doubt that any hops would be stored in conventional grain storage bins.
The finished beer itself need not be shipped in reefers, but often was to help stabilize the temperature of the beer....The reefers were, however, seldom if ever iced.
Lastly, I can only speak for myself here as the Brewmister (home-brewer) regarding your "loads in". In my brewing I only use, Malts, Grains, Hops, Yeast and of course water. So...Boxcars, covered hoppers and reefers make all the sense. Grains, malts, bottling supplies...and so on, can arrive in the boxcar. Covered hoppers were gaining in use at this time also, so a mix of boxcar (grain use only) and covered hoppers for incoming grain would add some diversity.
With that said...I think I need a cold one!

[Anonymous]

Here is a link to some photos of Brewery's through out history...
http://www.beerhistory.com/gallery/

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by colvinbackshop

Great thread, and from what I've read so far, all really great information.
I too, model a brewery and along the way I've come up with a bit of knowledge, discovering what happens at a regional brewery in New Ulm.
Remember that we need Malt..as in malted barley. One of you buildings could do the malting and mash (primary fermentation) process and another the ageing/conditioning and bottling. Often over looked in the beer making process is the wash building, both for the returning kegs and let us remember that in 196 returnable bottles were the going thing. Also, breweries need a lot of heat, remember a boiler house, or at least a goody stack, and depending on the size of your brewery, you may also want to model a water tower.
RE: Hops...Fresh hops, especially in the 60's would have arrived by rail in iced reefers, mostly from the North West Coast. Even pelletized hops retain freshness best when refrigerated, so I doubt that any hops would be stored in conventional grain storage bins.
The finished beer itself need not be shipped in reefers, but often was to help stabilize the temperature of the beer....The reefers were, however, seldom if ever iced.
Lastly, I can only speak for myself here as the Brewmister (home-brewer) regarding your "loads in". In my brewing I only use, Malts, Grains, Hops, Yeast and of course water. So...Boxcars, covered hoppers and reefers make all the sense. Grains, malts, bottling supplies...and so on, can arrive in the boxcar. Covered hoppers were gaining in use at this time also, so a mix of boxcar (grain use only) and covered hoppers for incoming grain would add some diversity.
With that said...I think I need a cold one!

Thank you for your insignts. I will keep them under consideration as I further work on the details of this project.

James

[Anonymous]

In my life time commercial breweries have used CO2 to carbonate the beer in the bottle. You will need a bulk tank and tank cars to make deliveries. Us home-brewers let the yeast carbonate the beer in the bottles but the big boys don't like the sludge it leaves in the bottom of the bottle.

Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.

[Anonymous]

Another car movement you might want is to have an occasional small coal hopper hauling out busted glass.

Stacks of beer kegs allover the loading dock would be great too.

[tangerine-jack]

Having lived and worked in the shadow of the Anheuser-Bush brewery in Williamsburg, VA, I can tell you that most of the answers you got so far are mostly correct. The hops and other grains come to the brewery, 24/7 in covered hoppers. They are unloaded indoors and the hops are taken to the masher, the first step in processing. I won't go into the details and specifics as the beer police will come after me, but all of the processing is done inside one huge building, and the 1 billion or so cans of beer produced every year are loaded 24/7 by both truck and rail for distribution to all points of the compass.

This operation clearly shows that rail service is not just done, but is the only method of transportation that can move the amount of hops needed for beer production. You can model your brewery any way you want, but let the first building be the masher, and the last be the bottling room/loading dock. Just as important is the waste product facility- you can't cook 800 tons of hops and just dump the residue down the sewer. Ship the waste out also in a covered hopper cars, designated "waste product use only" for that added touch of realism.

[ICRR1964]

Got my hopes all pumped up and excited, seen the word beer and had to go check it out.

Looks like you have done allot od homework on what you have planned, send us some pics when you get going on it. This sounds kind of fun to do, I don't have a brewery on my layout, but have thought about a small one, never could decide on the name though.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

Got my hopes all pumped up and excited, seen the word beer and had to go check it out.

Looks like you have done allot od homework on what you have planned, send us some pics when you get going on it. This sounds kind of fun to do, I don't have a brewery on my layout, but have thought about a small one, never could decide on the name though.

Don't worry I will. BUt right now I got everything up in the air because I was in the middle of a move when I became unemployed. I will post pictures when I get it done.

James